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Yamato

The Threat of Israel's WMD Arsenals

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Sanctions? If the US didn't approve, would sanctions even be possible, let alone have any chance at all of achieving anything? I mean, even sanctions that the US has been right behind (e.g. Cuba, Iraq) managed to achieve absolutely nothing in terms of changing the policies or leadership of the governments, did they?

Does the US force the nations of the world to purchase products or do business with Israel? We "give" 3 billion a year - mostly to our own military contractors, for weapons for Israel but this is a pittance in their economy - you're saying they could not be damaged economically if the nations around the globe really were angry with them?

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Space Commander Travis

Does the US force the nations of the world to purchase products or do business with Israel? We "give" 3 billion a year - mostly to our own military contractors, for weapons for Israel but this is a pittance in their economy - you're saying they could not be damaged economically if the nations around the globe really were angry with them?

no, I mean the Us's support of Israel, and even with the current incompetent President', that's still something mighty influential to have on your side. That's why sanctions against Israel would never get anywhere; wouldn't they just be vetoed instantly? And don't you think that even if the Nations of the world got together some kind of unofficial non-UN trade boycott of Israel, the US would allow that for a moment? The US has all sorts of ways of exerting influence through 'unofficial' means; through NATO, through America's dominance of the economy and so on ..

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Frank Merton

The point that the US would prevent any boycott of Israel is true, but irrelevant. There would be none even if the US didn't exist. Israel is a functioning European-style semi-socialist enterprise republic. The countries around it except for Turkey are either autocratic or, at the moment, anarchies.

I blame the Palestinians entirely for what is going on and see Israel aggressively but necessarily defending itself. All the propaganda that has been posted here has only served to reinforce my view.

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Good points Mr.Yamato :). I once listened to the president of israel on TV, it was amazing to find out that they are feeling totally threatened. This should be something psychological.

I assume your statement means that maybe He's mentally challenged but I'm not sure. IF that is what you meant then I can assure you neither he nor his people are acting irrationally in thinking they are threatened. In fact I'd wonder about their sanity if they weren't concerned with neighbors who perpetually yell "death to Israel" and teach their children that it's honorable to hate and kill Jews as subhuman creatures.

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no, I mean the Us's support of Israel, and even with the current incompetent President', that's still something mighty influential to have on your side. That's why sanctions against Israel would never get anywhere; wouldn't they just be vetoed instantly? And don't you think that even if the Nations of the world got together some kind of unofficial non-UN trade boycott of Israel, the US would allow that for a moment? The US has all sorts of ways of exerting influence through 'unofficial' means; through NATO, through America's dominance of the economy and so on ..

So it's now Israel's fault that those who despise her actions are gutless and self interested more than committed to what they see as the right path? You seem more impressed with the power of the US than the average American.

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jeem

Jeem I disagree and here's why: IF the world really felt strongly that Israel was being unjust to the Palestinians in a serious way then those nations would bring sanctions. I'm not talking about BDS, I mean REAL sanctions by UN member states. The US cannot stop other nations from deciding not to buy from or sell to Israel. I think the real truth is that those nations may not like the situation there but they realize it isn't more unjust for Palestinians than for Israelis. IF the Palestinians stopped shooting and the Israelis continued to then that worldview might change - we don't know because it's never really been tried. EVEN I would support the Palestinians if they really took the route of peaceful protest and the Israelis kept up their activities in the disputed territories.

Jeem I disagree and here's why: IF the world really felt strongly that Israel was being unjust to the Palestinians in a serious way then those nations would bring sanctions. I'm not talking about BDS, I mean REAL sanctions by UN member states. The US cannot stop other nations from deciding not to buy from or sell to Israel. I think the real truth is that those nations may not like the situation there but they realize it isn't more unjust for Palestinians than for Israelis. IF the Palestinians stopped shooting and the Israelis continued to then that worldview might change - we don't know because it's never really been tried. EVEN I would support the Palestinians if they really took the route of peaceful protest and the Israelis kept up their activities in the disputed territories.

How the world can do this without approval of the GLOBAL DICTATOR?They present something in the UN and THE DICTATOR will veto.

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Frank Merton

How the world can do this without approval of the GLOBAL DICTATOR?They present something in the UN and THE DICTATOR will veto.

That kind of polemic merely makes enemies of your viewpoint. Besides, there are five nations with veto power, and whether a veto happened would depend on the details.

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How the world can do this without approval of the GLOBAL DICTATOR?They present something in the UN and THE DICTATOR will veto.

Jeem even with a veto in the UN it does not stop individual nations from following their conscience in this matter.

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jeem

Jeem even with a veto in the UN it does not stop individual nations from following their conscience in this matter.

But those nation will not move forward without the GLOBAL DICTATOR approval.

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buckskin scout

The point that the US would prevent any boycott of Israel is true, but irrelevant. There would be none even if the US didn't exist. Israel is a functioning European-style semi-socialist enterprise republic. The countries around it except for Turkey are either autocratic or, at the moment, anarchies.

I blame the Palestinians entirely for what is going on and see Israel aggressively but necessarily defending itself. All the propaganda that has been posted here has only served to reinforce my view.

Don't you mean monarchies. This isnt propaganda, this is all about perspectives.

The Palestinians were ruled by the Ottomans for 302 years, the British for 28 years, Egypt (Gaza Strip) and Jordan (West Bank) for 19 years, and Israel for 65 years.

Have they achieved an autonomous sovereign state as stipulated under Mandatory Palestine? No.

The State of Palestine has never materialized.

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Yamato

We're constantly told of threats against Israel and when asked for evidence of these threats, we get various minutia, such as quotes from Rafsanjani from 15 years ago when he was making theoretical statements having nothing to do with policy or intent. Conversely, Israelis have made threats of unleashing nuclear weapons on Europe, and while they were conditional statements, they weren't just making statements of theory, they were statements of intent and even policy (see Samson Option). So if rhetoric is really what matters, again Israel reveals itself as being a threat to not only the region, but now all of Europe with its latest batch of Jericho nuclear-warhead armed ballistic missiles. If Israel's secretive and extralegal nuclear programs are allowed to continue unabated until Israel reaches the point where it can nuke the world, why isn't that a threat? Again, why are there no limits or even discussions about limits that can be placed on Israel's rogue WMD programs? Sensible policy would handle the rogues of the world like Israel, North Korea and Pakistan similarly, while hypocritical Zionist policies will always give Israel a unique double standard in the world that nobody else enjoys.

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We're constantly told of threats against Israel and when asked for evidence of these threats, we get various minutia, such as quotes from Rafsanjani from 15 years ago when he was making theoretical statements having nothing to do with policy or intent. Conversely, Israelis have made threats of unleashing nuclear weapons on Europe, and while they were conditional statements, they weren't just making statements of theory, they were statements of intent and even policy (see Samson Option). So if rhetoric is really what matters, again Israel reveals itself as being a threat to not only the region, but now all of Europe with its latest batch of Jericho nuclear-warhead armed ballistic missiles. If Israel's secretive and extralegal nuclear programs are allowed to continue unabated until Israel reaches the point where it can nuke the world, why isn't that a threat? Again, why are there no limits or even discussions about limits that can be placed on Israel's rogue WMD programs? Sensible policy would handle the rogues of the world like Israel, North Korea and Pakistan similarly, while hypocritical Zionist policies will always give Israel a unique double standard in the world that nobody else enjoys.

The Samson option is a policy of M.A.D. - nothing more. It is a response to the nations who want it destroyed. Every nation with nukes practices the same ideology in this respect. The soul possible exception would be the Shiite mullahs of Iran. Their eschatalogical stance makes their fear of "mutual destruction" somewhat suspect. To imagine that a country the size and composition of Israel would desire to nuke the planet for grins is ridiculous.

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Yamato

The Samson option is a policy of M.A.D. - nothing more. It is a response to the nations who want it destroyed. Every nation with nukes practices the same ideology in this respect. The soul possible exception would be the Shiite mullahs of Iran. Their eschatalogical stance makes their fear of "mutual destruction" somewhat suspect. To imagine that a country the size and composition of Israel would desire to nuke the planet for grins is ridiculous.

It is ridiculous, and yet that's what we're told by Zionists to believe.

Martin van Creveld: "Most European capitals are targets for our air force. We have the capability to take the world down with us, and I can assure you that will happen before Israel goes under." Professor Creveld was making references to the policy. How is that not a terrible threat to the world? What if Israel is in the process of getting attacked and their intelligence doesn't correctly deduce where the attack is coming from in a timely manner? Are they going to take the world down with them before they go under? That is unacceptable behavior for any "ally".

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Space Commander Travis

I wonder, if you didn't say that it was Israel, and you offered that quote, would people consider that the country making that kind of rhetoric was mad, and indeed, quite possibly, evil as well? :innocent:

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jeem

Of course nuclear weapons , possessed by anyone, are a threat... offensive or retaliatory . Isn't that the idea?

In the view of the west and America it is not a threat when nuke is possessed by Israel but it is a threat when it is possessed by Iran

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jeem

I wonder, if you didn't say that it was Israel, and you offered that quote, would people consider that the country making that kind of rhetoric was mad, and indeed, quite possibly, evil as well? :innocent:

There are many Zionist defender who would say it a propaganda

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Yamato

In the view of the west and America it is not a threat when nuke is possessed by Israel but it is a threat when it is possessed by Iran

Exactly! The question, is why.

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Exactly! The question, is why.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state_terrorism

The fact that you dismiss the reality of Iranian actions in no way makes them less real, Yam.

The canard about Iran not attacking anyone for 200 years is simply propaganda. They use terror proxies to fight against the west and in an attempt to gain regional hegemony. Israel kills these types from time to time to pre empt attacks on their citizens - or in the case of the nuclear scientists, to protect the whole country. It's a bloody business that both sides engage in but many will only see fault lying with the Israelis - as such their opinions lose any weight of authority.

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Yamato

http://en.wikipedia....state_terrorism

The fact that you dismiss the reality of Iranian actions in no way makes them less real, Yam.

The canard about Iran not attacking anyone for 200 years is simply propaganda. They use terror proxies to fight against the west and in an attempt to gain regional hegemony. Israel kills these types from time to time to pre empt attacks on their citizens - or in the case of the nuclear scientists, to protect the whole country. It's a bloody business that both sides engage in but many will only see fault lying with the Israelis - as such their opinions lose any weight of authority.

They don't do anything we don't do, and we do plenty they don't do. So we're no judge of Iran's. Iran has a right to their nuclear program as fellow NNPT signatories. Rogue Israel should also be inspected by the IAEA on a regular basis, in particular because Israel never ratified any of the global conventions on WMDs. Once again I'm arguing for a single standard good enough for everyone including Israel and you're having all kinds of trouble with that, vying for another double standard for Israel.

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They don't do anything we don't do, and we do plenty they don't do. So we're no judge of Iran's. Iran has a right to their nuclear program as fellow NNPT signatories. Rogue Israel should also be inspected by the IAEA on a regular basis, in particular because Israel never ratified any of the global conventions on WMDs. Once again I'm arguing for a single standard good enough for everyone including Israel and you're having all kinds of trouble with that, vying for another double standard for Israel.

You want a single standard where everyone is treated the same? You seem to actually believe that even though you'd see the state of Israel destroyed without blinking an eye. Hypocrisy - period.

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Yamato

you'd see the state of Israel destroyed without blinking an eye.

Based on nothing that I ever said, ever.

Yes I want a single standard where everyone is treated the same. Ratifying conventions for nuclear, chemical and biological weapons are a good start. I see nobody being destroyed from these treaties so your bizarre accusations are baseless.

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Based on nothing that I ever said, ever.

Yes I want a single standard where everyone is treated the same. Ratifying conventions for nuclear, chemical and biological weapons are a good start. I see nobody being destroyed from these treaties so your bizarre accusations are baseless.

Yam you have a child's view of the world. Equality, justice and freedom for all - as if it ever existed that way. As to your words - you call regularly for Israel to do things which would greatly endanger the state if they were followed. In your world the Palestinians are wronged and have a right to do anything to address that - "freedom fighters". EVERY TIME Israel has given land, released prisoners or given any concession in this conflict they have been attacked or rebuffed. People who look at such behavior and see that as just and expect that more of it will somehow solve this problem are either fools or are complicit. Your high sounding rhetoric is so much biased, Israel hating dreg.

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joc

They don't do anything we don't do, and we do plenty they don't do. So we're no judge of Iran's. Iran has a right to their nuclear program as fellow NNPT signatories. Rogue Israel should also be inspected by the IAEA on a regular basis, in particular because Israel never ratified any of the global conventions on WMDs. Once again I'm arguing for a single standard good enough for everyone including Israel and you're having all kinds of trouble with that, vying for another double standard for Israel.

You must be one of the only two people that don't know that the insurgency of enemy in Iraq was Iran. Iran has no rights. None. Tell me the last time we kidnapped, tortured and held captive 400+ citizens of any country. The people of Iran yearn for freedom. The Mullah's of Iran must go. Interestingly, I haven't heard Obama say that very thing...and he won't. Israel is not the bad guy. Iran is. That's not propoganda...that's fact man.

Edited by joc
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Frank Merton

I am hopeful about Iran though. They have the remnants of democracy if only they could rid themselves of the Mullah's power to vet candidates for office.

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Yamato

Yam you have a child's view of the world. Equality, justice and freedom for all - as if it ever existed that way. As to your words - you call regularly for Israel to do things which would greatly endanger the state if they were followed. In your world the Palestinians are wronged and have a right to do anything to address that - "freedom fighters". EVERY TIME Israel has given land, released prisoners or given any concession in this conflict they have been attacked or rebuffed. People who look at such behavior and see that as just and expect that more of it will somehow solve this problem are either fools or are complicit. Your high sounding rhetoric is so much biased, Israel hating dreg.

It exists in the US that way right now. So bologna to it "never existing" that way.

As to my words, what do I regularly call on Israel to do? Please provide a few examples of what that is exactly.

Never said Palestinians have a right to do anything that you don't have a right to do, so don't go playing that Zionist shell game with me. Or I defy you to show me where I ever gave Palestinians rights or privileges I don't also give Israelis.

Your accusations about me are false. If you don't know it yet, we'll figure it out eventually by teaching you in depth and once and for all what my words really say.

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