Facts about Israel

[buckskin scout]

Israel serves as the major arms subcontractor for American arms. It recently signed two agreements, worth 1.5 billion each, to train and equip both the Chinese and Indian armies with Israeli-tinkered U.S. weaponry. The U.S. uses Israel aas a conduit when it wishes to avoid Congressional bans, embodied in the Arms Export Control Act, on selling arms to countries with serious human rights violations or, as in the case of India and Pakistan, when it wishes to avoid taking sides.

Because of access to American technology and financial support, Israel has become the third largest arms producer in the world, making more weapons than China, Britain, or France. In fact, Israel produces 12 percent of the world's arms. And it sells to countries few other want to associate with: Apartheid-era South Africa (where it trained the notorious security forces and helped develop the regime's nuclear program), Mobutu's Zaire, Liberia under Charles Taylor, the Burmese generals, Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Honduras and Guatemala under their military dictatorships, the corrupt and brutal regimes of Central Asia - and Rwanda, where it sold small arms to the Hutu before, and during the genocide, then, without interruption, to the Tutsis immediately afterwards.

Israel has become a military superpower in its own right. Its army and air force rival those of the major European countries, and it has become the world's fourth largest nuclear power, despite never signing the Nuclear Non-Profliferation Treaty. It works closely with the U.S. military. For Example, Seymour Hersh worte in The New Yorkerj (January 24-31, 2005) that "The next strategic target [is] Iran ... The [bush] Administration has been conducting secret reconnainssance missions inside Iran at least since last summer ... Defense Department civilians, under the leadership of Douglas Feith, have been working with Israeli planners and consultants to develop and refine potential nuclear, chemical-weapons, and missile targets inside Iran." And it pursues an aggressive military policy of its own, although with tacit or explicit American 'permission'. Israel has become a leading subverter of human rights and progressive change throughout the world. It has military advisors and mercenaries in Columbia (both on the side of the government and of the drug cartels). Its mercenaries (all of whom operate under the supervision of the Ministry of Defense) are active in West Africa, where they broke the UN's boycott on 'blood diamonds', as in many other conflictual locales. Israeli advisors completely built Singapore's army, today the strongest in Southeast Asia. Israel also has major weapons development programs with every country in the European Union.

Further suggested readings are the 14th chapter of The Passionate Attachment and The Israeli Connection. The latter is a whole book devoted to this topic.

[Beany]

According to the Huffington Post, the top five arms dealers are the US, China, Germany, France, and Russia, Israel no where in sight. And Douglas Feith, haven't seen his name in a long time. He worked in the George W. Bush administration, and was a founding member of the neocon group Progress for the New American Century, along with Cheney, Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Scooter Libby, William Kristol, etc. This is from a Wikipedia article about Feith, who has a less than sterling reputation: In February 2007, the Pentagon's inspector general issued a report that concluded that Feith's office "developed, produced, and then disseminated alternative intelligence assessments on the Iraq and al Qaida relationship, which included some conclusions that were inconsistent with the consensus of the Intelligence Community, to senior decision-makers." It was this information that provided Bush with the excuse for invading Iraq, and which turned out to be so terribly wrong. Also, according to Wiki, expletive deleted: General Tommy Franks, who led both the 2001 invasion of Afghanistan and the Iraq War, once called Feith "the dumbest ******g guy on the planet."

The neocon group, Progress for the New American Century proposed back in the early 1990's the the US invade first Iraq, then Iran, then Syria, forget what the other two countries were. Is it any wonder Iran is loathe to give up development of nuclear weapons, given the US unjustified attack on Iraq?

I didn't fact check the other stuff, just the information I recognized from my reading at the time some of these reported events might be incorrect or outdated or misleading. Certainly the stuff about Feith & the Bush administration are outdated, as is placing Israel in the top 5 arms dealers, so I do wonder about the other information presented as fact.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Beany

[+and-then]

According to the Huffington Post, the top five arms dealers are the US, China, Germany, France, and Russia, Israel no where in sight. And Douglas Feith, haven't seen his name in a long time. He worked in the George W. Bush administration, and was a founding member of the neocon group Progress for the New American Century, along with Cheney, Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Scooter Libby, William Kristol, etc. This is from a Wikipedia article about Feith, who has a less than sterling reputation: In February 2007, the Pentagon's inspector general issued a report that concluded that Feith's office "developed, produced, and then disseminated alternative intelligence assessments on the Iraq and al Qaida relationship, which included some conclusions that were inconsistent with the consensus of the Intelligence Community, to senior decision-makers." It was this information that provided Bush with the excuse for invading Iraq, and which turned out to be so terribly wrong. Also, according to Wiki, expletive deleted: General Tommy Franks, who led both the 2001 invasion of Afghanistan and the Iraq War, once called Feith "the dumbest ******g guy on the planet."

The neocon group, Progress for the New American Century proposed back in the early 1990's the the US invade first Iraq, then Iran, then Syria, forget what the other two countries were. Is it any wonder Iran is loathe to give up development of nuclear weapons, given the US unjustified attack on Iraq?

I didn't fact check the other stuff, just the information I recognized from my reading at the time some of these reported events might be incorrect or outdated or misleading. Certainly the stuff about Feith & the Bush administration are outdated, as is placing Israel in the top 5 arms dealers, so I do wonder about the other information presented as fact.

For some here, Israel seems to be the focus of evil in the world. I'm openly biased on Israel's behalf though I also recognize their government is quite capable of serious lapses in judgement in their activities regarding settlements. Bottom line is that Israel is not substantially worse than any other government on the planet IMO.

[buckskin scout]

According to the Huffington Post, the top five arms dealers are the US, China, Germany, France, and Russia, Israel no where in sight. And Douglas Feith, haven't seen his name in a long time. He worked in the George W. Bush administration, and was a founding member of the neocon group Progress for the New American Century, along with Cheney, Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Scooter Libby, William Kristol, etc. This is from a Wikipedia article about Feith, who has a less than sterling reputation: In February 2007, the Pentagon's inspector general issued a report that concluded that Feith's office "developed, produced, and then disseminated alternative intelligence assessments on the Iraq and al Qaida relationship, which included some conclusions that were inconsistent with the consensus of the Intelligence Community, to senior decision-makers." It was this information that provided Bush with the excuse for invading Iraq, and which turned out to be so terribly wrong. Also, according to Wiki, expletive deleted: General Tommy Franks, who led both the 2001 invasion of Afghanistan and the Iraq War, once called Feith "the dumbest ******g guy on the planet."

The neocon group, Progress for the New American Century proposed back in the early 1990's the the US invade first Iraq, then Iran, then Syria, forget what the other two countries were. Is it any wonder Iran is loathe to give up development of nuclear weapons, given the US unjustified attack on Iraq?

I didn't fact check the other stuff, just the information I recognized from my reading at the time some of these reported events might be incorrect or outdated or misleading. Certainly the stuff about Feith & the Bush administration are outdated, as is placing Israel in the top 5 arms dealers, so I do wonder about the other information presented as fact.

Israel is no where in sight, eh? Israel is ranked between fourth and sixth in the world for weapons sales. According to IHS Janes and Haaretz they are ranked sixth but other research has placed Israel higher. Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) ranked Israel fourth.

Overtaking China and Italy || Israel ranks as the world's sixth largest arms exporter in 2012

Israel's weapons sales jumped 74% since 2008, largely thanks to deals with India, according to IHS Jane's; U.S. tops the defense intelligence company's list of arms exporters, with more than $28 billion in defense deals in 2012.

Israel ranked as the world's sixth largest arms exporter in 2012 with $2.4 billion worth of defense sales, according to IHS Jane's.

IHS Jane's, a business intelligence company specializing in military and national security topics, put the United States at the top of its list, with more than $28 billion in defense deals in 2012.

Trailing behind the U.S. in the top five were Russia, which exported $10 billion's worth of weapons, France with $4.5 billion in sales, the United Kingdom, at an export total of $4.5 billion of weapons and Germany, which last year sold weapons and defense equipment worth $3 billion. Among the top 10 weapons exporters, Germany was the only country to see a drop of its arms exports compared to 2008 figures.

Following Israel in seventh to tenth place on the IHS Jane's list were Italy, China, Canada and Sweden.

While Israel did not make it into IHS Jane's top five this year, the company's analysts noted that it came in second in the world in sales of unmanned aerial vehicles, behind just the U.S.

The company also predicted that Israel would sell twice the number of drones as the U.S. by 2014 – and would become the world's largest exporter of UAVs at some point this year.

In its report, IHS Jane's also showed that Israel's defense exports increased by 74 percent since 2008, largely due to deals signed with India.

IHS Jane's estimates contradict those of other companies such as Frost and Sullivan, which reported Israel to already be the world's largest exporter of UAVs.

The IHS Jane's report also ranked countries according to their weapons acquisitions, with India topping the list at $5.27 billion, followed by Saudi Arabia ($3.74 billion) and the United Arab Emirates (close to $3.5 billion). The size of weapons deals with these countries “grew dramatically” following the world economic crisis, according to IHS Jane's. Following these three on the list, were

Turkey, Egypt, South Korea, Australia and Iraq also ranked high on IHS Jane's list in terms of annual weapons purchases.

The IHS Jane's report also predicted that defense budgets in Asia-Pacific countries would be larger than those of the U.S. and Canada in less than a decade. The share of weapons deals with Western Europeans countries has already begun dropping in recent years, while the size of weapons deals with countries in the East continue to rise.

The global budget for defense has also increased over the years and is expected by IHS Jane's to reach $1.65 trillion by 2021, which would constitute 9.3 percent growth above the 2013 figure.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.531956

[+and-then]

Is there any particular point you are trying to make? I mean, if the US and China and Russia are in those ranks as well... why does it matter if Israel makes money from well produced armaments?

[Yamato]

A country with the population of a major city is #6 in the world in weapons sales? And we're not amazed by that? Take a look at weapons sales per-capita and Israel would have to be #1, which I think more than confirms the validity of focusing on it.

[+and-then]

A country with the population of a major city is #6 in the world in weapons sales? And we're not amazed by that? Take a look at weapons sales per-capita and Israel would have to be #1, which I think more than confirms the validity of focusing on it.

How so? It is an internationally accepted form of trade, is it not? Israel excels in IT and medical devices also. Per capita I think they have more patents registered than the average country as well. Are those also of some concern?

[GoldenWolf]

A country with the population of a major city is #6 in the world in weapons sales? And we're not amazed by that? Take a look at weapons sales per-capita and Israel would have to be #1, which I think more than confirms the validity of focusing on it.

I was just thinking that.

[+and-then]

I was just thinking that.

Probably true... and what of post #7?

[buckskin scout]

Is there any particular point you are trying to make? I mean, if the US and China and Russia are in those ranks as well... why does it matter if Israel makes money from well produced armaments?

I guess you did not read the whole post about who are Israel's clientele.

[+and-then]

I guess you did not read the whole post about who are Israel's clientele.

Weapon sales is a sketchy way to earn money - no matter WHO does it or Who they sell them to. My point is that once again we seem to be trashing Israel as though they are doing worse things than other countries. It just doesn't wash man. They also sell more fruit and veggies to Europe than anyone else, or so I've heard. Is that a concern also? Are Zionist oranges and olives the demon seed?

[Yamato]

How so? It is an internationally accepted form of trade, is it not? Israel excels in IT and medical devices also. Per capita I think they have more patents registered than the average country as well. Are those also of some concern?

Palestine excels in carnations and strawberries also. Are those also of some concern? Ba derp?

Making me have to state the obvious, weapons are of concern.

[+and-then]

Palestine excels in carnations and strawberries also. Are those also of some concern? Ba derp?

Making me have to state the obvious, weapons are of concern.

See post #11

[Yamato]

See post #11

Are Palestinian olives the devil seed? No, then why is Israel knocking nearly all of Palestine's olive trees down? Ever ask your masters who cannot be questioned that?

Again, weapons are a concern. Not olives, not strawberries, not whatever other cute change of subject you try next. Back on topic. And if you don't have anything else to add, it looks like you're done here.

[Yamato]

If Palestine must be disarmed, Israel, who is hyper-armed, must at least be inspected, if we're going to treat the human tragedy of Israel-Palestine with any manner of fairness.

[+and-then]

If Palestine must be disarmed, Israel, who is hyper-armed, must at least be inspected, if we're going to treat the human tragedy of Israel-Palestine with any manner of fairness.

The weapons that ISRAEL sells are YOUR concern Yammy. Not the weapons trade in general. I'm sure the sale of say, Turkish weapons to African countries wouldn't be nearly as much a concern now would it? Nah.. try being honest here at least.

[Orcseeker]

The weapons that ISRAEL sells are YOUR concern Yammy. Not the weapons trade in general. I'm sure the sale of say, Turkish weapons to African countries wouldn't be nearly as much a concern now would it? Nah.. try being honest here at least.

Because Israel operate globally. Number 6 in arms sales and it is their top export.

This is a country that is completely profiting off war as we see it right now. Through the illegal acquisition of land and the selling of weapons to parts of the world largely in disarray, like Africa and Latin America.

Of course it is a concern Turkey is selling to North Africa, not Africa as a whole, like Israel, but Israel is on a much larger scale.

As I understand that is a direction you would not be comfortable with.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Orcseeker

[+and-then]

Because Israel operate globally. Number 6 in arms sales and it is their top export.

This is a country that is completely profiting off war as we see it right now. Through the illegal acquisition of land and the selling of weapons to parts of the world largely in disarray, like Africa and Latin America.

Of course it is a concern Turkey is selling to North Africa, not Africa as a whole, like Israel, but Israel is on a much larger scale.

As I understand that is a direction you would not be comfortable with.

The real issue here is that it's Israel. The whole thread is a hit piece and it's obvious. Sure, Israel sells weapons and those weapons harm people all over the world. It's a BAD thing - got it. But Israel is doing nothing more extraordinary than any other country by selling weapons. Just bringing a bit of balance to the kangaroo court

[Space Commander Travis]

This is quite interesting..Countries in Asia continue to be the Israeli defense industries' leading market with 50% of sales, or $3.7 billion, concentrated there. India is the leading customer. Sales to Europe have increased dramatically, to $1.6 billion, as the result of a $1 billion offset contract signed with Italy. In return for Israeli procurement of Aermacchi's M-346 advanced jet trainer, Italy committed to buy two Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI)/Gulfstream G550 Special Electronic Missions Aircraft (SEMA), as well as IAI's optical reconnaissance satellite. In early 2012, Germany also signed a contract to buy additional Rafael Spike anti-tank missiles, totaling several hundred million dollars.

Missile technology and air defense systems represent 25% of Israel's overseas sales. IAI's Barak-8 naval air and missile defense system continues to generate revenues through an ongoing $1.4 billion contract with India. Israel has refused to confirm reports that the long-range naval missile was also sold to Azerbaijan, in a contract estimated at $800-900 million.

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/AW_08_05_2013_p76-600058.xml

Selling to Germany? Well, that's interesting, isn't it.

[Yamato]

Believers in peace think peaceful things, they do peaceful things, they build peaceful things, and share peaceful things.

Being the pound-for-pound king in weapons proliferation is a reason for shame. The world should be racing to the bottom of that list and shaming the top of it.

[Yamato]

Selling to Germany? Well, that's interesting, isn't it.

A Godwin's reference, without actually speaking the magic words! So I feel self-indulged to reply now.

No, it's not interesting at all to me. The Zionists sold their poison to Germany a long time ago.

All the Jews migrating out of Germany to their own land? That sounded too good to be true to every wannabe brown shirt alive back in those days. They wanted to get rid of the Jews who they perceived to have wrecked Germany's economy. The Zionists were in part responsible for providing plans for ridding Germany and Europe of its Jewish problem. The Zionists were reinforcing what the Nazis were already thinking, that they could actually write their anti-Jewish hatred into their policy. This is not to say that all Zionists were morally wrong for doing this. Europe definitely was "anti-Semitic" back in those days and moving the Jews out of Europe to faraway shores could have been a survival move in the minds of many Zionists.

[buckskin scout]

A Godwin's reference, without actually speaking the magic words! So I feel self-indulged to reply now.

No, it's not interesting at all to me. The Zionists sold their poison to Germany a long time ago.

All the Jews migrating out of Germany to their own land? That sounded too good to be true to every wannabe brown shirt alive back in those days. They wanted to get rid of the Jews who they perceived to have wrecked Germany's economy. The Zionists were in part responsible for providing plans for ridding Germany and Europe of its Jewish problem. The Zionists were reinforcing what the Nazis were already thinking, that they could actually write their anti-Jewish hatred into their policy. This is not to say that all Zionists were morally wrong for doing this. Europe definitely was "anti-Semitic" back in those days and moving the Jews out of Europe to faraway shores could have been a survival move in the minds of many Zionists.

You are correct, the Jewish Zionist stance was Palestine or NOTHING!

[Yamato]

You are correct, the Jewish Zionist stance was Palestine or NOTHING!

If you're making a reference to how extreme some Zionist individuals were, I agree, but otherwise don't understand your statement. Zion was going to be located in numerous places on earth in debates among Zionist leaders in the early days. They didn't care where they got their homeland, so long as they got it, and they started a very real and impressive political movement to acquire that real estate somewhere on the planet. In the wake of the Holocaust guilt following the end of WW2, they had the political critical mass they needed to make it happen. But the founders of Zionism had to know that by using the religion they could strengthen their political position enormously. Obviously they would put the full weight of the hammer down on Israel their only realistic choice, appealing to a guilty Europe, and nibbling on the dying remnants of a tired old empire like a shark chewing on a sick whale.

I'd really like to read through the minutes of their meetings but unfortunately they were held in secret and we only seem to have what's been written in books. (You obviously read books which gives you an advantage here incidentally).

Edited October 30, 2013 by Yamato