Debunking "9/11 In Plane Sight"

[Sunofone]

No, you dont see any detonators what so ever. What you do see, is fire bursting out of the windows as the floor collapses.

no you are mistaken look AGAIN-what we are witnessing is a BALL OF FIRE and THEN the building collapses not the other way around-

evil is as evil does

FOOLS FOOLS FOOLS...

EVERY YEAR FOR A SPACE WE BAN THEE FROM OUR PRECIOUS GROVE

[Fluffybunny]

Sunofone, you have had a total of 10 posts on this forum, with too high a percentage of those ten being uncivil. I do not want to have to run around closing topics because of flame wars.

This is your last friendly warning.

[Stellar]

no you are mistaken look AGAIN-what we are witnessing is a BALL OF FIRE and THEN the building collapses not the other way around-

evil is as evil does

Hmm, hard to tell from *stills*.

Take a look at the video instead. I have.

[vimjams]

Im curious... I thought I heard you say somewhere that now you believe that a plane did hit the pentagon... What kind of plane?

I don’t know what kind of plane. I just don’t see a 757 creating that little hole…Especially considering the explosion rises upward on impact and not ‘jets’ outward which one would expect to see given the theory that the huge fuselage and fuel laden wings instantly squeezed through the little hole.

No, you dont see any detonators what so ever. What you do see, is fire bursting out of the windows as the floor collapses.

No you don’t see fire bursting out of the windows…Come on Stellar: What we actually see is a line of ‘puffs of smoke’ which do look very much like detonations.

Yes, but that conspiracy theory is not the one I'm refering to. The one I'm refering to really does need massive ammounts of people holding their tongue to pull off.

What conspiracy are you referring to? I am talking about 911 when I say you do not need the conscious co-operation of thousands of people to pull it off. All you would require are a few key controllers and the rest of the participants need only to innocently follow their orders. Jeez…It’s not impossible to imagine that even one powerful person could have done this whole business but then, it wouldn’t be called a conspiracy.

No. Wanna know why? Because the majority of people wont agree with you. Why? Because your "evidence" not only isnt true evidence, its because its not even strong enough to convince people.

Stellar: I thought you didn’t like assumptions. Your opinion that the majority of people would not agree is pure speculation. You can’t say just because a few people here at UM do not agree then that makes for a majority. And who are you to say what is “true” evidence? I’ve said this before. It is just a matter of opinion. Yours, mine…theirs. As for being “strong”…Well, that is what worries some people.

I guess you dont want to keep the discussion civil, do you?

What is Sunofone saying that is uncivil? I can show you dozens of posts where people like yourself have called people like me a whole host of offensive names…But I don’t see any complaints about that.

Calling people “wacko” and Saying “I couldn’t give a rats ass about your opinion” is being uncivil

So lets not get all sensitive about a few misplaced words because we are fed up with having to defend a weakening point of view...eh!

Good one Sunofone

Vimjams

[bluelight]

Um.. anybody notice the FBIs won't show the airports & pentagon security videos even after years since 9/11 happened? And up to date there are only 2 videos released from what I heard that is over the years.

I mean, there are cameras at the ticket counter, checkpoints, boarding gates, etc.

It is impossible Pentagon has lack of security cameras around in the extrenal ground facilities and yet we've only seen less than a handful of videos takes from security cameras. There's no pictures of the plane hitting pentagon, except pictures of the plane wreak already embedded at the side of the pentagon wall.

We are in the era where cameras are everywhere and yet...

What are they hiding?

I've read from another forum, there are a few several Israel passengers of top operatives officers in those planes that was kept confidential and wasn't reported to the medias.

[Stellar]

I don’t know what kind of plane. I just don’t see a 757 creating that little hole…Especially considering the explosion rises upward on impact and not ‘jets’ outward which one would expect to see given the theory that the huge fuselage and fuel laden wings instantly squeezed through the little hole.

I may be confusing you with someone else, but werent you, in the past, claiming that a 757 couldnt do the amount of damage inflicted upon the pentagon? That there needed to be something stronger used?

No you don’t see fire bursting out of the windows…Come on Stellar: What we actually see is a line of ‘puffs of smoke’ which do look very much like detonations.

Nah, its not smoke, it looks like fire IMO. Anyway, it may look similar to detonations, but you dont see detonators...

What conspiracy are you referring to? I am talking about 911 when I say you do not need the conscious co-operation of thousands of people to pull it off. All you would require are a few key controllers and the rest of the participants need only to innocently follow their orders. Jeez…It’s not impossible to imagine that even one powerful person could have done this whole business but then, it wouldn’t be called a conspiracy.

Yes I'm not talking about your version of the conspiracy... I'm talking about other conspiracy theories, various other ones... They're all revolving around the same subject, but vary between themselves. Some people claim that there was a missile pod on the plane that hit the second tower... that there is just one part of a conspiracy that would involve many people. Combine it with those who say that Flight 77 was hijaked and flown into the ocean just so that the US could fly a cruise missile into the pentagon, etc.... it becomes massive.

Stellar: I thought you didn’t like assumptions.

Theres no assumptions there...

Your opinion that the majority of people would not agree is pure speculation.

No, its based on past experience actually. I've been to threads like this on many forums... the majority of people end up agreeing that the "evidence" presented really isnt evidence at all.

You can’t say just because a few people here at UM do not agree then that makes for a majority.

You're right. I cant speak for the whole world... I'll try to be more PC next time.

And who are you to say what is “true” evidence?

Who are you to say waht is true evidence?

I’ve said this before. It is just a matter of opinion. Yours, mine…theirs.

You dont think a cruise missile hit the pentagon do you? Some who point out a round exit whole in layer E of the Pentagon claim its proof of a cruise missile... do you think thats proof?

What is Sunofone saying that is uncivil?

Read it yourself. Even funnybunny noticed them. One thing, for instance, is the "FOOLS FOOLS FOOLS!" part of his post...

I can show you dozens of posts where people like yourself have called people like me a whole host of offensive names…But I don’t see any complaints about that.

And I can show you where each time I called you an offensive name, it was in retaliation to one of yours....But I don't see any complaints about that.

Calling people “wacko” and Saying “I couldn’t give a rats ass about your opinion” is being uncivil

No its not. I really dont give a rats ass about anyones "opinion" of what happened. Im not attacking anyones opinion or anything by that. Plus, why should I care about other peoples opinion?

[Frosty]

So how do take into account that Bush wanted to attack Iraq before 9/11 ever occurred? Clinton was almost at war with Iraq, only problem was we had an ongoing conflict in East Europe and Clinton is more willing to side with the UN than Bush is. If President Bush wanted cheap oil he would attack South America not countries half way around the world where it would cost so much more to export the oil from rather than only a few thousand miles to the south.

364137[/snapback]

How do you feel about the part where Bush Jr was finishing Bush Sr's job about ending Hussein's reign when Bush Jr clearly said his fight was with alquaida and all? Do you think part of the reason Bush wanted to bring Hussein down was to finish what Bush Sr couldn't?

364164[/snapback]

To a certain degree of speculation it is possible that in some context the actions taken by his father might have some minimal claim towards motivation. But the main desire was national security, UN sanction violations, wmds (chemical and biological), past history of using such weapons, unwillingness to cooperate with UN officials, and possible links to terrorist organizations. At first, all the libs were shooting fire from their mouth claiming that Iraq had no ties to terrorist or WMD's. Oops, here comes the Oil-for-Food scam that launderd millions to terrorist and officials to keep it a secret that Suddam was embezling 'public' money. Who were these officials you ask? Why, the same officials who opposed a US lead war in Iraq such as Koffi Ann. Well, how bout that? You want to talk about conspiracy theories, here is a great one unfolding right before our noses. Me thinks it won't be too long before we find the WMD's.

[vimjams]

No its not. I really dont give a rats ass about anyones "opinion" of what happened. Im not attacking anyones opinion or anything by that. Plus, why should I care about other peoples opinion?

You're right...I couldn't give a dog's turd for your opinion either...But it's not about that is it. Your grumble and complaint with Sunofone was about being 'civil' not about opinions. And quite often expressing statements like the above is pretty uncivil and always inflames.

And no it "werent" me who said a 757 "couldn't" make that damage. I have said that a 757 did not make that tiny little hole...Something else did. When I know what that 'something else ' was I'll tell you.

it may look similar to detonations, but you dont see detonators...

Looking like detonations because of the possibility that they are detonations. Your quip with Sunofone about "detonators" is sort of silly...I could say: They look like aeroplanes crashing in to the towers but we didn't see the pilots.

Yes I'm not talking about your version of the conspiracy... I'm talking about other conspiracy theories, various other ones... They're all revolving around the same subject, but vary between themselves. Some people claim that there was a missile pod on the plane that hit the second tower... that there is just one part of a conspiracy that would involve many people. Combine it with those who say that Flight 77 was hijaked and flown into the ocean just so that the US could fly a cruise missile into the pentagon, etc.... it becomes massive.

Don't you think that some of these theories are just too plain stupid to be anything other than clever little ploys?

Who are you to say waht is true evidence?

That's just it Stellar...I do not say this or that evidence is true...I'm sceptical. You claim that the official story presents evidence that is true and anything else is false.

You dont think a cruise missile hit the pentagon do you? Some who point out a round exit whole in layer E of the Pentagon claim its proof of a cruise missile... do you think thats proof?

I'm not an expert and cannot say what is and what isn't proof...But I will say that I do not think a 757 made that even smaller exit hole. You tell me what caused that hole.

Vimjams

[Fluffybunny]

Vimjams and Stellar...why don't you two drop the act and just admit how much you actually like each other...really, it is ok...you're among friends here, no need for the facade...

Oh sure you constantly bicker with each other like cranky old people, but I can see beneath the surface how well you two get along together...

I'm thinking that you two would make great pen-pals...you could visit each other over holiday...maybe even spend Christmas together...it would be great...Now would probably be a great time to exchange addresses so that you can get your Christmas cards off on time.

You guys could mark you calanders with each others birthdays and special dates as a reminder to give each other calls on those special occassions...

Really guys, just let it all out...don't hold back your emotions...it's okay.

Sorry...now back to the topic at hand...

[Art Vandelay]

Oh sure you constantly bicker with each other like cranky old people, but I can see beneath the surface how well you two get along together...

364498[/snapback]

It sort of reminded me of a cranky-older couple......they nit-pick each other like crazy but stay togethor.....

J/K of course..

[firefemme1202]

They remind me of brothers, two total different view points but similar ways of arguing...

Here's a question:

#1) if the Pentagon was part of a conspiracy, then wouldn't the other 3 planes have been too? If they were, then why not delve more deeply into those crashes to possibly help prove or disprove any conspiracy theories?

Those stills of the WTC fire were put up, but there is no way to prove either way if there was explosions then a collapse, or a collapse then an explosion of fire...it's like, what came first, the chicken or the egg, we'll never know. But there has to be something out there besides just the pentagon that can sway the argument? If it was a conspiracy, the other planes would be involved, that simple, so why then are we just focusing on making a conspiracy out of the Pentagon?

I'm not saying I'm for or against the conspiracy theory, this is just a question.

[Stellar]

You're right...I couldn't give a dog's turd for your opinion either...But it's not about that is it. Your grumble and complaint with Sunofone was about being 'civil' not about opinions. And quite often expressing statements like the above is pretty uncivil and always inflames. 

Sun of one said something to the effect of "IMO, that looks like a ..." or "IMO, that seems to indicate that..." Honestly, I really couldnt care less about what he thinks about something, because I can say it looks like a purple dinosaur for all I care.

Looking like detonations because of the possibility that they are detonations. Your quip with Sunofone about "detonators" is sort of silly...I could say: They look like aeroplanes crashing in to the towers but we didn't see the pilots.

No, its more like him saying "You can see the landing gear hit the tower."

No, you cant see the landing gear hit the tower, you can see the airplane hit the tower.

Theres a big difference between seeing detonators, and what looks like detonations.

Don't you think that some of these theories are just too plain stupid to be anything other than clever little ploys?

Huh?

That's just it Stellar...I do not say this or that evidence is true...I'm sceptical. You claim that the official story presents evidence that is true and anything else is false. 

Do I? I dont go that far. As far as I go is to claim that there is no evidence of bombs being planted at the WTC, that it makes no sense to hijak flight 77 and fly it into the ocean, then take another plane to fly it to the pentagon, etc. etc. etc.

I'm not an expert and cannot say what is and what isn't proof...But I will say that I do not think a 757 made that even smaller exit hole. You tell me what caused that hole.

The engine.

[Sunofone]

Sunofone, you have had a total of 10 posts on this forum, with too high a percentage of those ten being uncivil. I do not want to have to run around closing topics because of flame wars.

This is your last friendly warning.

364195[/snapback]

bunny your not so funny-please detail the infractions and define uncivil-

if your talking about this phrase you are mistaken anyone who has watched alex jones's video "dark secrets - inside bohemian grove" will recognize this from a play or ritual or whatever that was video taped by alex-you need to chill your threat was completely unwarranted and is more than likely the reason for such a small forum community-and if your attitude is the norm around here then do me the favor

-FOOLS FOOLS FOOLS...

EVERY YEAR FOR A SPACE WE BAN THEE FROM OUR PRECIOUS GROVE

[Sunofone]

Hmm, hard to tell from *stills*.

Take a look at the video instead. I have.

364232[/snapback]

im glad you brought it up any one who has alex jones's "9/11 the road to tyranny" can watch the sequence for themselves-its a little past halfway during the schippers interview-while alex plays a phone interview he conducted with david schippers he fills with scenes from the wtc -the sequence in photos on this thread can be seen during this interview-its clear as day a huge ball of fire errupts from the building and it then procedes to collapse-the timing in undeniable-which proves you have not seen the video-even in the stills its clear the tower is intact when the fire is bellowing out of the building the collapse doesnt occur until the last few frames--

ive got tons of information maybe i should post the "northwood documents" where the joint chief of staff in 63' gen l.l.lemintzer drafted plans to "attack americans and blame it on cuba"- the documents speak for themselves here are a few of my favorite quotes from it-"we could bomb washington and the list of dead in the papers will create a helpful wavw of indignation" the most damning being the admittance of past succes using the technique--"or like we did in the spanish war we could sink a ship and blame it on them"--jfk was so appauled by this proposal that he refused to sign it and a week later commenced procedures to split the fbi and cia into many parts-needless to say he was unable to complete them--

im sure everyone here knows that bush sr's father's assets were seized in 1943 (in accordance with the "trading with the enemy act")for contributing "a majority" of the funds (multi-millions)recieved by i g farben used to crate auschwitz and at least 40 other death camps-but bush jr wouldnt do THAT kind of thing now would he?did he?is he?-the bush's nazi ties are undisputable

[Sunofone]

i want to apolagize for ruffling so many feathers around here without a formal introduction-its just that the times we are living in are so pivotal-i just think its pertinent to alert people to the fraud being perpetrated on them-its not even covert and thats what tends to amaze me-the listlessness of those being presented with an undeniable horror is unfathomable-its like being in the twilight zone-

i felt it is pertinent to post a link to the david schippers interview transcript as it is so informative--here are a few tidbits and then the link

David Shippers Interview

Alex Jones Radio Show

October 10, 2001

AJ: Again, David Shippers, you are big in Washington, you were the top lawyer that got Clinton impeached, you are highly respected, you know the Senators, the Congressmen. You're calling up. You've got these FBI agents and others feeding you this information. They're being pulled off the cases, they're angry. That's even been in the news now, from Minnesota and Florida and Illinois. They know what's going to happen. The Sudanese in '96 and '98 tried to arrest Bin Laden for Clinton, tried to give us the names of Al Qaeda, Clinton wouldn't take it.

DS: I'll tell you something. This one of the things that, to me, it is almost inconceivable, inconceivable that with the knowledge they had that they would turn their back. Just assume that they had investigated and gone in after the Oklahoma City bombing, as they are doing now. There never would have been an attack on the Trade Towers. If they had done, 5 to 6 years ago what they are doing now, they probably would have had Bin Laden and that gang all stopped by now. But, I don't know, as a human being, as a former prosecutor, as a lawyer and a guy who represents police and agents all over the United States, it is inconceivable to me that those bureaucrats in Washington would turn their back on the obvious for their own purposes.

AJ: And now the World Trade Center Complex is absolutely destroyed.

DS: Yes, 6000 people are dead. And there is more coming. There is more coming.

http://www.infowars.com/transcript_schippers.html

spread the word help me wake people up

[Fluffybunny]

Sunofone, you have had a total of 10 posts on this forum, with too high a percentage of those ten being uncivil. I do not want to have to run around closing topics because of flame wars.

This is your last friendly warning.

364195[/snapback]

bunny your not so funny-please detail the infractions and define uncivil-

if your talking about this phrase you are mistaken anyone who has watched alex jones's video "dark secrets - inside bohemian grove" will recognize this from a play or ritual or whatever that was video taped by alex-you need to chill your threat was completely unwarranted and is more than likely the reason for such a small forum community-and if your attitude is the norm around here then do me the favor

-FOOLS FOOLS FOOLS...

EVERY YEAR FOR A SPACE WE BAN THEE FROM OUR PRECIOUS GROVE

364779[/snapback]

I'll tell you what Sonofone, I don't think I was out of line in asking everyone to be civil in my first post, and then asking you specifically in my second post. I was not trying to be funny with you, I was asking that everyone be civil and avoid name calling which seems to happen far too often here.

Your "Fools, Fools, Fools" quote makes it look like you are calling people fools...it is pretty clear. You may have not meant it that way, but that is how it comes across.

I don't know if my attitude is the norm around here or not, but I do know that I do not want your attitude to become the norm. Take the rest of the weekend off from posting and give that some reflection.

Edited November 20, 2004 by Fluffybunny

[Blood Angel]

I have seen the grove video...and yes that "Fools, fools fools" is what is said in the video, but sunofone should have made this clear...

[vimjams]

Personally I think this whole business seems quite silly. Here we are discussing a conspiracy that involves the murder of several thousands of people…Corrupt politicians, ruthless terrorists and warped ideas about the world we live in: And what do we all end up getting our ‘knickers in a twist’ over… Whether or not somebody gets called a “fool” (?)

Jeez…The number of times people here on this board have called me names like “vile” and “vicious”. “Wacko” and “p***ant”…The insults regarding my character…Accusing me of posting ‘crap’…The nonsense about being a ‘terrorist lover/supporter’…The list goes on and on: Yet I hardly see any moderators rushing to my defence or the defence of my right to express an opinion. Implying that somebody may be ‘foolish‘ does seem a little tame in comparison…Especially when it is later discovered that apparently it was only (appearing) to do so.

I mean to say. What kind of person gets all worked up about being called a “fool”…A baby?

Vimjams

[wunarmdscissor]

i dont believe most of the conspracy theories

however

i think a valid but VERY far fetched theory could be that the CIA or NSA allowed the attack to take place in order for them to gain the public support needed for a war on the middle east.

IE: oil being the biggest aim and a base for the more worrying problem that is North Korea adn possibly even china , strategic so to speak.

I beleieve the amount of planes being successfully hijacked and the amount of hijackers involved without detection is notable.

I beleive that the fact is according to the US govt the hijackers had a little light aircraft experience , that they were able not only to fly a state of the art jet liner but guide it directlly to the Trade center is also worrying.

Experienced pilots say they wouldve struggled to do that never mind these guys and teh fact the two hit so precisley .

I dot really belioeve it or want to. but.......

[Art Vandelay]

i dont believe most of the conspracy theories

I beleive that the fact is according to the US govt the hijackers had a little light aircraft experience , that they were able not only to fly a state of the art jet liner but guide it directlly to the Trade center is also worrying.

Experienced pilots say they wouldve struggled to do that never mind these guys and teh fact the two hit so precisley .

I dot really belioeve it or want to. but.......

365820[/snapback]

It's extremely EASY to fly a plane once it is in the air. The hard part is the pre-flight checks, flipping switches and what-not to get into the air. And the HARDEST part is to actually land the thing. Guiding it while it's in flight isn't hard at all. I got to fly a KC-135 air refueling tanker on the border of Iraq 11 years ago and their is nothing to it so I can believe that terrorists with a little light aircraft training could guide a jetliner straight into a building. Now if the jets where still on the ground I VERY much doubt that they could've just 'taken' it so to speak because of inadequate training.

[vimjams]

Ex FBI/CIA Agents Ready ToBlow Bush 911 Cover Story

A Conservative Christian Republican Says

Listen To Whistleblower Sibel D. Edmonds

The following is an open letter to Eliot Spitzer, Attorney General for the State of New York and William Casey, Chief Investigator for the Attorney General?s Office. In fact, this was hand delivered to Mr. Spitzer's office before it was published as was a three-part expose I have written titled Pop Goes the Bush Mythology Bubble. That three-part article will break soon and is in the hands of investigators at this time.

Sibel D. Edmonds was one of the many multilingual translators hired by our FBI to help track down terrorists and anticipate their next moves. At least, that was the plan and the purported "job description."

Once Sibel was working inside the FBI she uncovered something, tried to go public with it when Attorney General John Ashcroft and her FBI superiors would not, and the Bush-Cheney-Ashcroft team slapped a gag order on her so you could not hear what this lady has to say. What she has to say directly relates to 9-11 and it totally disputes the Bush Mythology they want Americans to believe.

So listen up, America. Here is what Sibel uncovered - she found "drug trafficking, money laundering, foreign names and American names directly involved in the financing of the 9-11 attacks on WTC (World Trade Center) and the Pentagon." It was not the Saudis, folks. Americans were involved and Bush does not want you to know that. That exposes the Bush Mythology as the lie that it is.

Full article here...Sorry it's not from FOX!

http://rense.com/general59/esFBICIAagentsready.htm

Vimjams

[Art Vandelay]

Full article here...Sorry it's not from FOX!

ah well, nobody is perfect Vims...........

Edited November 21, 2004 by Art Vandelay

[vimjams]

And I certainly do not hate you (or the United States) either Art

Vimjams

[gamron]

I would like to adress a few things. To the person that brought up the plane crash in the everglades, that is completely different. That plane crashed into a swamp if I am not mistaken. The reason parts were hard to find there were because they were sinking into the swamp... I think... It was a long time ago when I was in like 5th grade

Ok now for the issue of if jet fuel can or cannot melt steel. I am pretty good at chemistry so I should be able to help clear things up... I hope...

The amount of energy released in a reaction increases as the amount of reactants increase.

For example

2H2+O2 --> 2H2O ΔH = -285.8 kJ/mol

Now if everything in the equation was doubled, the ΔH would also double and become -571.6 kJ/mol.

The amount of energy release, q, is related to the change in temperature by the equation q=mcΔT where m=mass c=specific heat capacity ΔT=change in temperature. The large q is, the bigger the change in temperature will be. So if there was enough jet fuel it would be able to melt steel.

I looked and found that the temperature needed to melt steel is 1450 C, and the temperature that jet fuel burns at is 1900C, I was unable to find the enthalpies of this crap so I couldn't do any equations to figure out how much would be needed. But the temperature would not need to exceed 1450 in order to melt steel, it would only have to meet that temperature for enough time for all the bonds to break in the steel. After the bonds have been broken, then the temperature of the steel could go higher that 1450 C.

Sorry if this doesn't really make any sense... I wrote this quickly between homework problems...

[vimjams]

South Bend Firm's Lab Fired After

Questioning Federal Probe

Just an update to the earlier post concerning...Shhh...You know what.

SOUTH BEND -- The laboratory director from a South Bend firm has been fired for attempting to cast doubt on the federal investigation into what caused the World Trade Center's twin towers to collapse on Sept. 11, 2001.

Kevin R. Ryan was terminated Tuesday from his job at Environmental Health Laboratories Inc., a subsidiary of Underwriters Laboratories Inc., the consumer-product safety testing giant.

On Nov. 11, Ryan wrote a letter to the National Institute of Standards and Technology -- the agency probing the collapse -- challenging the common theory that burning jet fuel weakened the steel supports holding up the 110-story skyscrapers.

Underwriters Laboratories Inc., according to Ryan, "was the company that certified the steel components used in the construction of the WTC buildings."...

Ryan wrote that last year, while "requesting information," UL's chief executive officer and fire protection business manager disagreed about key issues surrounding the collapse, "except for one thing -- that the samples we certified met all requirements."

Ryan wrote that the institute's preliminary reports suggest the WTC's supports were probably exposed to fires no hotter than 500 degrees -- only half the 1,100-degree temperature needed to forge steel, Ryan said. That's also much cooler, he wrote, than the 3,000 degrees needed to melt bare steel with no fire-proofing.

"This story just does not add up," Ryan wrote in his e-mail to Frank Gayle, deputy chief of the institute's metallurgy division, who is playing a prominent role in the agency investigation. "If steel from those buildings did soften or melt, I'm sure we can all agree that this was certainly not due to jet fuel fires of any kind, let alone the briefly burning fires in those towers."

He added, "Alternatively, the contention that this steel did fail at temperatures around (500 degrees) suggests that the majority of deaths on 9/11 were due to a safety-related failure. That suggestion should be of great concern to my company."

http://inn.globalfreepress.com/modules/new...hp?storyid=1059

Vimjams