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DieChecker

Ultimately for many, he can never prove anything over the internet, correct? Never... All he can do is try to perform under tighter and tighter conditions. But with a video there will always be the possibility of mischief. He could be the cousin of a Mythbuster, or the son of a retired Illusionist for all we know. The very anonymoty of the internet prevents Trust.

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Skep B

Yeah thats more or less what I was saying.

...for the record I am as untrusting in real life.

Because I'm a d*ckbag, and really more of a cynic than a skeptic

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Frank Merton

When presented something like this, I will always opt for trickery over actuality, even if no trick can be demonstrated. Just think about the probabilities.

If someone is genuinely persuaded they have such abilities, they need to seek out professional magicians and scholars and work with them under controlled conditions, not make films for the internet.

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Skep B

....then possibly go see a shrink.

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spacelizard667

Most of what skeptic are saying they have never even tried for themselves in controlled experiments. They would see for themselves that it never looks enough like the real thing, but they're afraid to debunk their own ambiguous methods.

Edited by spacelizard667

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Skep B

The ones making claims outside the ordinary are the ones who have something to prove, not us.

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DieChecker

I can think of one situation where a video might be considered good proof...

If there is a trustworthy witness in the video who is observing and who examines the location for tricks. Like if the Amazing Randi was to be right there with Simon and he could find no fault, then that would be an amazing piece of evidence.

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DeWitz

Since simon.john is, at least temporarily, MIA, can anybody else tell me if this kind defensiveness and evasiveness is par for the course for individuals trying to make a splash, however "humble" or minor, on UM? He obviously was feeding on other posters' replies (chi,qi, "Ki") to buttress his claims. He was clearly a 'work in progress.'

simon.john's abrupt shift of attitude, dismissively leaving us "to our fate" and invoking vague references to Christ when he was challenged, confused, annoyed and alienated me as much as his amateurish, unconvincing candle-blowings.

Why all the energy expended to try to convince a bunch of people who were consistently saying, "Cool, but not enough"?

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ChrLzs

I can think of one situation where a video might be considered good proof...

If there is a trustworthy witness in the video who is observing and who examines the location for tricks. Like if the Amazing Randi was to be right there with Simon and he could find no fault, then that would be an amazing piece of evidence.

I agree. Thing is, if they were willing to debate the process here and identify themselves, I wouldn't demand a James Randi - I'd be willing to listen to the input of any illusionist or magician, as long as we could verify his/her experience and they were willing to discuss what tests they undertook or what they did to rule out trickery. It's not all that difficult, as long as the person doing the checking knows their stuff, and knows the 'usual tricks'.

To Szentgyorgy..

can anybody else tell me if this kind defensiveness and evasiveness is par for the course for individuals trying to make a splash

Pretty much typical. Feigned modesty, claims of lots of training, that anyone dedicated enough could also do it, that they aren't interested in money or fame (which begs the question of why they put it up on a forum that prides itself on explaining mysteries), claims that they will get experts to verify it (that are never followed thru), calling skeptics evil or closed minded or just plain unworthy, refusing to even listen to things that might be used to stop trickery, and always, *always* involving tiny, lightweight things that can be moved or blown out by small air movements - when are we gunna see a Yoda, I say... Finally, there's a departure/flounce that involves appealing for sympathy, and stating that no test would be sufficient and that they won't return. Then they pop up at another forum, of course...

In a way, that last bit is almost right (about no test being sufficient), except for one tiny thing, whenever even half-decent tests are put in place, the power ends and the claimant vanishes.

Just as an aside to all this - I often hear folks saying that the JREF challenge ($1m to anyone who can prove paranormal abilities) is set up so no-one can win.. This claim always comes from those who haven't looked at it. Several people have tried, and the people that are being tested help set up the tests in conjunction with a few experts in the field. It is only after the checks and balances are agreed upon (and they are by no means unreasonable - which is why the claimants agree to them) that the challenge then goes ahead. In every case so far, the claimants have not been able to produce any evidence of paranormal powers.

Now maybe I'm way out of line here, but it seems to me to be the height of selfishness to not want to prove this power and share it with mankind - we would enter a new age.. And yet, like Simon, these folks make a few wild claims, post a video or two... but do NOT go to the next step. Maybe they are afraid that the military will jump down from their choppers and grab them, but given these days you can document everything and either post it online or give it to Wikileaks...

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Skep B

Plus, telekinetic vs paramillitary squad.

that'd HAVE to be entertaining

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taniwha

I think most people would agree pshycic and paranormal phenomena are fact.

Inexplicable moments affect lots of us all the time. It may even be true that latent powers exist inside us all, yet due to evolution or devolution perhaps its full potential is not being harnessed. Lots of things in this world remain extraordinary and unexplained. Lots of other things are simply unknown. So untested by scientific methods they remain.

Whether or not science can even accurately measure paranormal at all is conjecture.

Truth is the S.J video provides no believable argument that he has any form of self paranormal control.

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Skep B

I think most people would agree pshycic and paranormal phenomena are fact.

You really think most?

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Frank Merton

I think most people would agree pshycic and paranormal phenomena are fact.

Inexplicable moments affect lots of us all the time. It may even be true that latent powers exist inside us all, yet due to evolution or devolution perhaps its full potential is not being harnessed. Lots of things in this world remain extraordinary and unexplained. Lots of other things are simply unknown. So untested by scientific methods they remain.

Whether or not science can even accurately measure paranormal at all is conjecture.

Truth is the S.J video provides no believable argument that he has any form of self paranormal control.

Nah. Inexplicable moments are inexplicable (unexplained). That is all. Assuming such things are necessarily paranormal is an unwise and probably foolish and certainly unwarranted conclusion.

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taniwha

You really think most?

Why not?

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taniwha

Nah. Inexplicable moments are inexplicable (unexplained). That is all. Assuming such things are necessarily paranormal is an unwise and probably foolish and certainly unwarranted conclusion.

For instance, how do you explain a bushman who displays superhuman strength lifting a fallen tree off his mate? Normal?

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Frank Merton

For instance, how do you explain a bushman who displays superhuman strength lifting a fallen tree off his mate? Normal?

Unexplained without more detail; probably adrenalin.
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taniwha

Unexplained without more detail; probably adrenalin.

Not everybody can react to an identical scaenario in an identical way. Unusal and inexplicable human displays of energy ld think exist outside current bounds of what might normally occur. Paraordinary or paranormal? Its just hairsplitting really.

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Frank Merton

How about just unexplained, meaning "I don't know but I think probably something ordinary."

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ChrLzs

I think most people would agree pshycic and paranormal phenomena are fact.

Even if that were true, what does it mean? I like paranormal mysteries and stuff too, and might be tempted to say yes to such a survey depending on its wording.. By the way, you do realise that 50% of all people have below average intelligence? (That's a statistician's joke..)

Inexplicable moments affect lots of us all the time.

I don't know about that - in fact pretty much everything that happens to me all of the time is quite explicable. Some might seem coincidental or quite improbable, but inexplicable? Nope. Not if you think things through, understand psychology, understand probability, do a bit of research into the phenomena..

It may even be true that latent powers exist inside us all, yet due to evolution or devolution perhaps its full potential is not being harnessed.

Yes, that may be, but I truly doubt they will break the laws of physics or chemistry sufficiently to do anything but require a bit of very minor tweaking, if anything.

Your example of someone having 'superhuman' strength would only be of note if it was properly documented/witnessed and the feat was simply not possible for that person. As stated, things like adrenaline can make us, briefly, have extraordinary strength.

Lots of things in this world remain extraordinary and unexplained. Lots of other things are simply unknown. So untested by scientific methods they remain.

But that is what science is for - it investigates and explains. That's its job. If there is something you think is extraordinary yet has not been sufficently examined, do tell.. But usually such things are simply abandoned as the event is not repeatable and is not sufficiently well-documented or evidenced to make any determination.

Whether or not science can even accurately measure paranormal at all is conjecture.

I disagree. If it has no measurable impact, no measurable effect, then by definition there is nothing to measure. You can't have a paranormal without it impacting the normal in some detectable way. If it is immeasurable, undetectable then it's hardly fair to denigrate science for not being able to analyse it. Feel free to give an example, though...

Anyway, if and when any paranormal thing is measured, documented and explained beyond reasonable doubt (aka 'proven'), it will simply become part of mainstream 'normal' science - at least until some better explanation replaces it - nothing is ever 100% proven, but that's another philosophical snake pit...

But up until then, just like speculation about multiple dimensions or travelling faster than light, it is only speculation.

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taniwha

How about just unexplained, meaning "I don't know but I think probably something ordinary."

That just about explains the meaning of unexplained.

With the right tools many many solutions can be constructed.

Until laser microscopes or atomic telescopes are invented lots of other mysteries will remain unsolved.

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taniwha

I don't know about that - in fact pretty much everything that happens to me all of the time is quite explicable. Some might seem coincidental or quite improbable, but inexplicable? Nope. Not if you think things through, understand psychology, understand probability, do a bit of research into the phenomena..

Yes, I agree there is nothing wrong with thinking that everything happens for a reason.

Thats as great a mystery as why are some things paranormal.

Your example of someone having 'superhuman' strength would only be of note if it was properly documented/witnessed and the feat was simply not possible for that person. As stated, things like adrenaline can make us, briefly, have extraordinary strength.

Well no. Superhuman strength is a documented and well witnessed fact. If someone experiences or possess paranormal energies and that doesnt mean that it is available to science on demand. It may be a fleeting moment for an individual never to be recreated so slips by any scientific "feelers"

I disagree. If it has no measurable impact, no measurable effect, then by definition there is nothing to measure. You can't have a paranormal without it impacting the normal in some detectable way. If it is immeasurable, undetectable then it's hardly fair to denigrate science for not being able to analyse it. Feel free to give an example, though...

Anyway, if and when any paranormal thing is measured, documented and explained beyond reasonable doubt (aka 'proven'), it will simply become part of mainstream 'normal' science - at least until some better explanation replaces it - nothing is ever 100% proven, but that's another philosophical snake pit...

So we are born we breathe we die. That much is mainstream fact.

Through our bodies psychic or paranormal energies are communicated, recieved, recognised and interpreted.

I think our bodies make the perfect scientific laboratory.

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Skep B

Why not?

I try to give people the benefit of the doubt that they wouldn't just accept things that happen as paranormal.

**ad on edit**

By that I mean that since I don't look for the paranormal, I wouldn't expect most other people to either.

Edited by Kelevra
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DeWitz

I try to give people the benefit of the doubt that they wouldn't just accept things that happen as paranormal.

**ad on edit**

By that I mean that since I don't look for the paranormal, I wouldn't expect most other people to either.

Just right-----If my mother had automatically accepted the paranormal when I was alone earlier that morning doing laundry (at age 12), she would have agreed with my panicky "The washing machine just walked along the basement floor all on its own!" explanation for what she, ever the pragmatist and rationalist, knew was the physical activity of a washing machine out of balance during the spin cycles.

It was my dad, ever the Rosicrucian aficionado of all things esoteric, who said, "How do we know, since no one was there to see it?"

It's Occam's razor again, and most people--I think--tend to believe the first or second reasonable explanation prior to making the quantum leap into the 4th or 17th dimension in which telekinesis is an interstitial extracorporeal expression of string theory, or something. Even in solving murders, rescuing lost hikers and finding the car keys, the simplest explanation is usually the most likely to be accurate.

Or maybe I moved that washing machine with telekinetic powers I didn't know I possessed, or could "train," at the time? Hmmmmm. . . .

Edited by szentgyorgy
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The Slunk

My two cents, just my opinion, and maybe some Others Share it. The op is a fraud/liar/"illusionist"/attention seeker/etc. If I had the 'powers" the op has, I'd be winning myself a million dollars from james randi and even if money/fame isn't the reason for op here posting,, $1m could still help a lot of people. Pay for some kidney stone operations, take a break, you've earned it right? You say you've used your powers to help people, but you know what helps medical ailments more than a waving your hands and saying "You're cured!"? A legit medical operation. No my friend, you do not have magical powers. You aren't the only one who's tried proving these powers, and you CERTAINLY aren't the first to completely fail to prove anything. Because it's all just a trick. Your videos are not proof of anything, as they can easily be explained by using kids parlor tricks. You've received numerous suggestions to add credibility to your claims from other posters, and have ignored them all. Not only that, but as others have said, your desperate attempt to defend your tricks to an internet forum says a lot. Ok, I suppose that's enough of a rant, but before i go. If anyone believes the op has telekinetic powers, I've got one better. I can remove my thumb from my hand and have it magically reattach! It just needs to be watched at the right angle, I swear! And I've got the ability to take people's noses away on a whim. Boom goes the dynamite.

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DieChecker

I have to agree with the "Why not?". Because I've seen those surveys (From England?), where 75% of people believe in UFOs and 66% believe in ghosts. If UFOs and Ghosts don't count as paranormal, I don't know what does. And 66% would count as Most.

Edit: Found this...

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/vault/Harris_Poll_2009_12_15.pdf

85% of Americans believe in God/Religion, which also is supernatural/paranormal.

Edited by DieChecker
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