Dragonwind Posted November 1, 2013 #1 Share Posted November 1, 2013 I have never really had much objection with the aquatic ape theory (AAT) in general and in recent years it has been advanced considerably. The basic premise is that going back a few million years, probably as a result of ice age dynamics, early homo species exploded out of waterways, estuaries, mangrove habitats and some coastal areas resulting in possibly early bipedalism, lack of 'fur' and a host of other aquatic adaptions unique to humans amongst the primates. As Ice Ages created large swampy, marine wetland and inundated habitats, early homo was faced with a huge opportunity for procuring rich sources of food. Later homo started exploring Savanahs and more inland areas. If were to assume this is true, many of our old myths of the serpent and even dragons could come from the dangerous animals homo would have encountered, feared and tried to avoid/respect in these types of environments. I'd like to open a (speculative perhaps) discussion on this subject. That the myths of the serpent and dragon go back much further than previously thought and are ingrained into our conscious and story telling from the earliest days of aquatic exploration where snakes and crocodiles are common. Thoughts? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabby Kitten Posted November 1, 2013 #2 Share Posted November 1, 2013 This is a really cool theory Dragons are also likely to be something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clobhair-cean Posted November 1, 2013 #3 Share Posted November 1, 2013 The only problem is that the Aquatic Ape Hypothesis (since it doesn't really deserve to be called a theory, as it has not been backed up by any evidence) has been comprehensibly refuted. This is a good place to start 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissAmber Posted November 2, 2013 #4 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Interesting....who really knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varelse Posted November 2, 2013 #5 Share Posted November 2, 2013 That could be the case without changing the ToE. We tend to stretch and embellish the truth, especially over the years. We're fools for fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BettyTheYeti Posted November 2, 2013 #6 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Dragons are well known as mountain creatures, so it is unlikely homos would have encountered them until well after leaving the coast. That said, it could be possible that the dragons actually headed to the coast in search of easy prey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeWitz Posted November 2, 2013 #7 Share Posted November 2, 2013 (edited) This theory "holds water" (no pun intended) without resort to the AAT. In fact, no lesser a scientific light than Carl Sagan espoused this primal memory of large reptiles theory in his book Broca's Brain (mid- to -late-70's). As you note, the fear of large crocodilians and huge snakes (which exist still) could have left quite an imprint on developing human intellect, memory, folklore and campfire stories. It would have been an adaptive trait to be aware of them, sensitive to them, even to fear them. Edited November 2, 2013 by szentgyorgy 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted November 2, 2013 #8 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Without AAT (which of course goes too far), we can consider that it may be early humans and some proto-humans lived mainly on shorelines. Especially the earliest migrations out of Africa may have been along the Indian Ocean beaches, of which we have no records since they are now underwater. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonwind Posted November 6, 2013 Author #9 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Without AAT (which of course goes too far), we can consider that it may be early humans and some proto-humans lived mainly on shorelines. Especially the earliest migrations out of Africa may have been along the Indian Ocean beaches, of which we have no records since they are now underwater. That's right, irrelevent of AAT, humans have and still do focus naturally on waterways and less so mountains. We find remains in caves because they are good places for fossil formatation whereas aquatic habitats much harder. I guess it's that these reptilian myths appear to go back a long way and they are focussed on water rather than savannah environments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.United_Nations Posted November 6, 2013 #10 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Komodo dragon it is said to eat people and have some sort of lethal bacteria that feels like a burning substance. I guess this is where the fire breathing stories come from, from giant lizards ie Komodo. The serpernts are the giant oar fish 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannin Posted November 6, 2013 #11 Share Posted November 6, 2013 ha homo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nathan DiYorio Posted November 6, 2013 #12 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Dragons are well known as mountain creatures, so it is unlikely homos would have encountered them until well after leaving the coast. That said, it could be possible that the dragons actually headed to the coast in search of easy prey. Dragons are mountainous only in European lore. In Asian mythologies, dragons were typically river spirits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannin Posted November 6, 2013 #13 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Dragons are mountainous only in European lore. In Asian mythologies, dragons were typically river spirits. very true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BettyTheYeti Posted November 8, 2013 #14 Share Posted November 8, 2013 That is because in Asia dragons are actually crocodiles, whereas in Europe, dragons are actually dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bendy Demon Posted November 8, 2013 #15 Share Posted November 8, 2013 Dragons are mountainous only in European lore. In Asian mythologies, dragons were typically river spirits. I was under the impression that Asian dragons inhabited all realms; water, the clouds, mountains and so forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DecoNoir Posted November 8, 2013 #16 Share Posted November 8, 2013 I was under the impression that Asian dragons inhabited all realms; water, the clouds, mountains and so forth. Depends on mythology. Japans dragons tend to be river spirits, or vice versa. Chinese dragons I believe inhabite multiple realms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bendy Demon Posted November 8, 2013 #17 Share Posted November 8, 2013 Depends on mythology. Japans dragons tend to be river spirits, or vice versa. Chinese dragons I believe inhabite multiple realms. Ah..ok. That's right. I have a superficial book on dragon mythology and now I recall it was mainly the Chinese dragons that lived nearly everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nathan DiYorio Posted November 8, 2013 #18 Share Posted November 8, 2013 That is because in Asia dragons are actually crocodiles, whereas in Europe, dragons are actually dragons. Oh I see. No wait, I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted November 8, 2013 #19 Share Posted November 8, 2013 That is because in Asia dragons are actually crocodiles, whereas in Europe, dragons are actually dragons. And bigfoot is actually a hyrax. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woopypooky Posted February 23, 2014 #20 Share Posted February 23, 2014 dragon spotted over tibet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike G Posted February 23, 2014 #21 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I have never really had much objection with the aquatic ape theory (AAT) in general and in recent years it has been advanced considerably. The basic premise is that going back a few million years, probably as a result of ice age dynamics, early homo species exploded out of waterways, estuaries, mangrove habitats and some coastal areas resulting in possibly early bipedalism, lack of 'fur' and a host of other aquatic adaptions unique to humans amongst the primates. As Ice Ages created large swampy, marine wetland and inundated habitats, early homo was faced with a huge opportunity for procuring rich sources of food. Later homo started exploring Savanahs and more inland areas. If were to assume this is true, many of our old myths of the serpent and even dragons could come from the dangerous animals homo would have encountered, feared and tried to avoid/respect in these types of environments. I'd like to open a (speculative perhaps) discussion on this subject. That the myths of the serpent and dragon go back much further than previously thought and are ingrained into our conscious and story telling from the earliest days of aquatic exploration where snakes and crocodiles are common. Thoughts? Eh, pretty sure that snakes are more abundant on land, not sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissJatti Posted February 23, 2014 #22 Share Posted February 23, 2014 it depends where you live in the world.. but I always thought crocodiles are descendants of dinosaurs and dragons where sea monsters from the oriental prospective and komodo dragon is some sort of modern day lizard tyrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritWriter Posted February 23, 2014 #23 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Dragons have attributes of fish, reptiles and birds. Fire breathing probably has something to do with lava.... Snakes would have been probably the first life form as they are most easily manifested, simple structure and design and could have come both from mountains and l as lakes rivers etc... obviously crocodiles love water. Dragons seem like advanced crocodiles, perhaps first a tadpole like snakish thing, a seahorse type thing, a small crocodile, a large crocodile Fish turned into birds Crocodiles turned into dragons Or dragons turned into crocodiles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Unicorn Posted February 23, 2014 #24 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Komodo dragon it is said to eat people and have some sort of lethal bacteria that feels like a burning substance. I guess this is where the fire breathing stories come from, from giant lizards ie Komodo. The serpernts are the giant oar fish If you go back to some expressions firey attitude means angry or viscious, Komodo could fit the bill in all respects and the myth grew to fire breathing and taken literally in later generations. I've seen Komotos and I believe you are right because I saw some paintings in a museum of man fighting a dragon that looked just like a Komoto to me. I wonder if some of the flying dragons were actually pteradactyls. Ancestral memory or some fossils found and the story tellers imagination? Most myths refer to dragons in relevance to magic or astral powers aka fire. Like serpents can also refer to vortexs not actual creatures, the powers of magnetism between planets and star interactions, comets, or even a galaxies shaped like a serpent. Symbolic descriptions using both of these creatures have to be read in context to the myth, most tales of them are allegories to describe characteristics of something else. Still for someone to use a creature as a symbol that means people were familiar with the creatures described . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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