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'Rape victims can be partly responsible


Commander CMG

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Culturally women in india are less likely to report rape due to a build up of women being subservient and low class citizens.

Using these numbers take out the importance of societal ways

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I'm calling you out on that reply.

As the chart attached below shows 84,767 women were raped in the USA between 2004 and 2010. That makes the USA the rape capital of the world. The UK was third with 15,934. Now the USA population is just over five times that of the UK so 5 x 15,934 = 79670 putting it in the same category as the USA. Strangely enough the USA and the UK society are both in the same poor condition.

India is in second, but before we get carried away, lets remember that India has a population of 1.2 billion. I'll call that four times the number of USA citizens so 22172/4 = 5543. No where near the problem that the UK and USA have.

Now will you start to see my perspective?

post-143083-0-03237700-1383438562_thumb.

(My apologies. If you compare the chart to the numbers I give you can see they appear to match up. The popups giving the exact figures which I quote are disabled when uploading the file. Thats where they came from).

We have an additional problem with India - rape is known to be significantly more under-reported than in the U.K or USA because of ingrained perspectives that the woman is to blame, they are the first to admit they are only just coming to terms with this problem and expect rape to be far higher than any official reporting.

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We have an additional problem with India - rape is known to be significantly more under-reported than in the U.K or USA because of ingrained perspectives that the woman is to blame, they are the first to admit they are only just coming to terms with this problem and expect rape to be far higher than any official reporting.

While under reporting may be true do you really believe the rape report rate is really 1/15 of that in the USA or worse? Also if a rape hasnt been reported how do you know it exists? Its mere speculation.

Do Russians fail to report rape too? or Germans? Do the maths and you can see the USA has a huge problem.

Edited by SilentHunter
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I'm calling you out on that reply.

As the chart attached below shows 84,767 women were raped in the USA between 2004 and 2010. That makes the USA the rape capital of the world. The UK was third with 15,934. Now the USA population is just over five times that of the UK so 5 x 15,934 = 79670 putting it in the same category as the USA. Strangely enough the USA and the UK society are both in the same poor condition.

India is in second, but before we get carried away, lets remember that India has a population of 1.2 billion. I'll call that four times the number of USA citizens so 22172/4 = 5543. No where near the problem that the UK and USA have.

Now will you start to see my perspective?

post-143083-0-03237700-1383438562_thumb.

(My apologies. If you compare the chart to the numbers I give you can see they appear to match up. The popups giving the exact figures which I quote are disabled when uploading the file. Thats where they came from).

The most important part of that chart you provided is the phrase "reported rape incidents". The actual number of rapes in India is certainly much higher than what's reported. Do a quick search and I'm sure you'll find examples of how Indian women are treated by the police if they report a rape:

The police say the men had committed at least five rapes in the same spot. Their casual confidence reinforces the notion that rape has been a largely invisible crime here, where convictions are infrequent and victims silently go away.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/27/world/asia/gang-rape-in-india-routine-and-invisible.html?_r=0

Statistics regarding rape in India are believed to be grossly underreported, largely owing to many victims’ unwillingness to enter into the glare of publicity as well as the indifference of many police officers.

http://www.ibtimes.com/rape-map-indian-website-safecity-seeks-locate-most-dangerous-parts-country-women-1438242

Also, a man raping his wife will not be prosecuted.

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While under reporting may be true do you really believe the rape report rate is really 1/15 of that in the USA or worse?

Also if a rape hasnt been reported how do you know it exists? Its mere speculation.

Then it is speculation that India as a country is taking seriously - kudos to them for stepping up and recognising there is enough evidence to act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_India

While per-capita reported incidents of rape are quite low compared to other countries, even developed countries.[4][5] According to 2012 statistics, New Delhi has the highest number of rape-reports among Indian cities, while Jabalpur has the per capita incidence of reported rapes.[6][7] Sources show that rape cases in India have doubled between 1990 and 2008.[8] According to the National Crime Records Bureau, 24,206 rape cases were registered in India in 2011, although experts agree that the unreported cases of sexual assault is much higher.[9]

A new case is reported every 20 minutes.[10][11] However the latest estimate suggest a new case every 22 minutes.[12]

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The most important part of that chart you provided is the phrase "reported rape incidents". The actual number of rapes in India is certainly much higher than what's reported. Do a quick search and I'm sure you'll find examples of how Indian women are treated by the police if they report a rape:

http://www.nytimes.c...sible.html?_r=0

http://www.ibtimes.c...y-women-1438242

Also, a man raping his wife will not be prosecuted.

It is simply ridiculas that you try to overule fact with speculation. If we are going to use speculation then anybody can make any argument true. I think you need to open you eyes and ask where is the evidence? Before you automatically accept what is read in newspapers.

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Then it is speculation that India as a country is taking seriously - kudos to them for stepping up and recognising there is enough evidence to act.

http://en.wikipedia....i/Rape_in_India

While per-capita reported incidents of rape are quite low compared to other countries, even developed countries.[4][5] According to 2012 statistics, New Delhi has the highest number of rape-reports among Indian cities, while Jabalpur has the per capita incidence of reported rapes.[6][7] Sources show that rape cases in India have doubled between 1990 and 2008.[8] According to the National Crime Records Bureau, 24,206 rape cases were registered in India in 2011, although experts agree that the unreported cases of sexual assault is much higher.[9]

A new case is reported every 20 minutes.[10][11] However the latest estimate suggest a new case every 22 minutes.[12]

and Russia, and Germany, etc, etc?

Most rape goes unreported in those countries too does it? I think the USA and UK need to look at their social and cultural norms especially when it comes to the way women conduct themselves in society.

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and Russia, and Germany, etc, etc?

Most rape goes unreported in those countries too does it? I think the USA and UK need to look at their social and cultural norms especially when it comes to the way women conduct themselves in society.

This is the crux of your argument? The way women conduct themselves? Women are not the issue - assault of another human being is the issue and that is a matter of how predominantly (but not solely) some men conduct themselves in society toward women. It is akin to how burglars conduct themselves in society or bank robbers or serial killers - it is about the attitude of those who think they have the right to take from others with no consideration of the others rights.

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It is simply ridiculas that you try to overule fact with speculation. If we are going to use speculation then anybody can make any argument true. I think you need to open you eyes and ask where is the evidence? Before you automatically accept what is read in newspapers.

Spend some time in India - that will open your eyes for you.

But this thread's getting a little side tracked with national comparisons and the like. The crux of the matter is the misogyny that pervades many parts of the world. India is an easy target because it wears it's misogyny on it's sleeve - although, as Libstak said, it is beginning to recognise and address that.

In the USA and Europe (and similar nations) it's more subtle. It takes the form of victim blaming (like you and the subject of the OP) and is championed by mens rights supporters.

It's really very simple. Rape (like any crime) is about the behaviour of the perpetrator, not the victim.

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Furthermore, it's not about sex. So trying to blame the victim is saying that the crime was about sex in the first place, when it's just simply not.

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This is the crux of your argument? The way women conduct themselves? Women are not the issue - assault of another human being is the issue and that is a matter of how predominantly (but not solely) some men conduct themselves in society toward women. It is akin to how burglars conduct themselves in society or bank robbers or serial killers - it is about the attitude of those who think they have the right to take from others with no consideration of the others rights.

If the womens conduct is not the issue then what is the driving force behind rape being the highest in the USA?

If I look at the USA, then the UK then another country (I have experience of Holland, Germany, Ireland, Belgium, France, Spain) I can see only one difference between the high and low scorers.

Edited by SilentHunter
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If the womens conduct is not the issue then what is the driving force behind rape being the highest in the USA?

Now who is speculating? You claim the high score the USA is due to women's behaviour - pure speculation. It could just as easily be due to any number of social factors.

If I look at the USA, then the UK then another country (I have experience of Holland, Germany, Ireland, Belgium, France, Spain) I can see only one difference between the high and low scorers.

What would be this "only one difference"?

Are we back to women's behaviour? Let's just turn this little misnomer on it's head for an instant.

What is the responsibility of the men in this? If a man is placing himself in a situation where he is taking what he sexually desires without consent - does it not then stand to reason that the charge of rape against him is something for which "he only has himself to blame"?

Edited by libstaK
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and Russia, and Germany, etc, etc?

Most rape goes unreported in those countries too does it? I think the USA and UK need to look at their social and cultural norms especially when it comes to the way women conduct themselves in society.

When my mother was sexually assaulted in her own bed I bet she was thinking "If only I had conducted myself better." You're victim blaming, pure and simple. Would you extend your argument to victims of Clerical sexual abuse? Those darn altar boys shouldn't dress in such a sexually suggestive manner!

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Now who is speculating? You claim the high score the USA is due to women's behaviour - pure speculation. It could just as easily be due to any number of social factors.

Like what? Please tell me if you know what social factors could be behind it so I can investigate.

What would be this "only one difference"? Are we back to women's behaviour? Let's just turn this little misnomer on it's head for an instant.

What is the responsibility of the men in this? If a man is placing himself in a situation where he is taking what he sexually desires without consent - does it not then stand to reason that the charge of rape against him is something for which "he only has himself to blame"?

If a man commits rape he rightfully gets a lengthy prison sentence. He did the crime, its his fault, he gets the punishment for it. I have never said that shouldnt be the case. I said women need to take responsibility for their safety by minimising the risk to themselves. Does that mean they will never get attacked? No, but it makes it a lot more unlikely.

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If a man commits rape he rightfully gets a lengthy prison sentence. He did the crime, its his fault, he gets the punishment for it. I have never said that shouldnt be the case. I said women need to take responsibility for their safety by minimising the risk to themselves. Does that mean they will never get attacked? No, but it makes it a lot more unlikely.

Can you provide evidence that the likelihood of being raped is related to what the victim was wearing?

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Like what? Please tell me if you know what social factors could be behind it so I can investigate.

Mysoginistic cultural attitudes towards women, misplaced anger and aggression, insecurity - preying on those perceived as weak to make oneself feel better and stronger, uncontrolled lust and a sense of entitlement where everyone is objectified as a potential opportunity for fulfillment of one's personal belief about their own "entitlements" to have what they want regardless of the cost to others - your basic criminal mindset.

I really think you should start with the first and FULLY investigate it and it's erroneous conclusions about what women are to men in society.

If a man commits rape he rightfully gets a lengthy prison sentence. He did the crime, its his fault, he gets the punishment for it. I have never said that shouldnt be the case. I said women need to take responsibility for their safety by minimising the risk to themselves. Does that mean they will never get attacked? No, but it makes it a lot more unlikely.

We can do that - and live the diminished lives that come from doing that, sure. But what if we don't want to "sit at the back of the bus" anymore? Do we have the right to sit where we want and not be thought irresponsible for doing so? Think that one through, please.

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Mysoginistic cultural attitudes towards women, misplaced anger and aggression, insecurity - preying on those perceived as weak to make oneself feel better and stronger, uncontrolled lust and a sense of entitlement where everyone is objectified as a potential opportunity for fulfillment of one's personal belief about their own "entitlements" to have what they want regardless of the cost to others - your basic criminal mindset.

I really think you should start with the first and FULLY investigate it and it's erroneous conclusions about what women are to men in society.

We can do that - and live the diminished lives that come from doing that, sure. But what if we don't want to "sit at the back of the bus" anymore? Do we have the right to sit where we want and not be thought irresponsible for doing so? Think that one through, please.

When surveyed it seems most women dont agree with you - http://news.bbc.co.u.../uk/8515592.stm

I quote 'one third blamed victims who had dressed provocatively' and 'meanwhile the survey suggested that many people are relaxed about their safety' and 'almost half of people have walked home via side streets on their own' all from the woman only survey. Based on that women only survey it seems we have a clueless women wondering about. I agree but I think you already know my view.

I shall sign off now and go to bed with the comment - 'I might have freedom but if I go and sit in a crocodile den and expect never to get eaten then I'm a fool'

Edited by SilentHunter
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When surveyed it seems most women dont agree with you - http://news.bbc.co.u.../uk/8515592.stm

I quote 'one third blamed victims who had dressed provocatively' and 'meanwhile the survey suggested that many people are relaxed about their safety' and 'almost half of people have walked home via side streets on their own' all from the woman only survey. Based on that women only survey it seems we have a clueless women wondering about. I agree but I think you already know my view.

In what reality is 1/3 most?

And 200 years ago, when surveyed most people would have disagreed that slavery was a bad thing - heck some still do. What does that prove besides that the battle for self determination is ongoing and with 2/3 agreeing with me - guess who is winning?

I shall sign off now and go to bed with the comment - 'I might have freedom but if I go and sit in a crocodile den and expect never to get eaten then I'm a fool'

Pleasant dreams, interesting that you equate mens attitudes towards women with crocodile type predatory behaviour and think that's an ok level of status quo for society - I'll let you sleep on that thought.

Edited by libstaK
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I think the woman who gave the Uni address should take a look at what is happening to women in India.

Edited by Antilles
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In what reality is 1/3 most?

And 200 years ago, when surveyed most people would have disagreed that slavery was a bad thing - heck some still do. What does that prove besides that the battle for self determination is ongoing and with 2/3 agreeing with me - guess who is winning?

Pleasant dreams, interesting that you equate mens attitudes towards women with crocodile type predatory behaviour and think that's an ok level of status quo for society - I'll let you sleep on that thought.

Where does the report say that 2/3 of women agree with you? Thats an inference without supporting evidence. For all you now one of those thirds might think women who choose boyfriends that are a disaster waiting to happen are also partly to blame for being raped. The point I'm making is you dont know what the views of those 2/3s of women are in the survey because they arent stated.

Using slavery to try and justify a point on an unrelated topic is a strawman argument. Finally I didnt equate mens attitudes towards women as being like a predatory crocodile. I equated a small percentage of mens attitudes as being like that, the small percentage which are rapists. My logic is if you make yourself a target to rapists you increase your chances of being a rape victim.

Dress properly, if you must dress tarty then know when you're going to far, dont pick criminals or psychopaths for boyfriends, keep your friends near and dont go cutting up back alleys at 3am in the morning on your way home from a nightclub. Its common sense.

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You still get raped whatever you wear, jeans, shorts, skirts etc. Rapes can be anyone from anywhere not just a boyfriend.

Who says nightclubs, you can get raped any time of the day, in parks, houses etc.

Men get raped did you know that? there might be a rape on woman on woman or man on man

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Snip

Dress properly, if you must dress tarty then know when you're going to far, dont pick criminals or psychopaths for boyfriends, keep your friends near and dont go cutting up back alleys at 3am in the morning on your way home from a nightclub. Its common sense.

How a person dresses isn't the predominant factor as to how a rape victim is targeted.

Criminals and psychopaths are cons and know how to hide that aspect of themselves from their potential target or from someone they are setting up for long term abuse. Like any abuser the abuse doesn't start large it's small and can escalate quickly because these people are predatory in nature and know how to manipulate the emotions of their victims.

Friends can also be your rapist read the stats.

Here are some stats.

The Rapist isn't a Masked Stranger

Approximately 2/3 of rapes were committed by someone known to the victim.1

73% of sexual assaults were perpetrated by a non-stranger.1

38% of rapists are a friend or acquaintance.1

28% are an intimate.1

7% are a relative.1

He's not Hiding in the Bushes

More than 50% of all rape/sexual assault incidents were reported by victims to have occured within 1 mile of their home or at their home.2

  • 4 in 10 take place at the victim's home.
  • 2 in 10 take place at the home of a friend, neighbor, or relative.
  • 1 in 12 take place in a parking garage.
    43% of rapes occur between 6:00pm and midnight.2
    • 24% occur between midnight and 6:00am.
    • The other 33% take place between 6:00am and 6:00pm.

    The Criminal

    • The average age of a rapist is 31 years old.2
    • 52% are white.2
    • 22% of imprisoned rapists report that they are married.2
    • Juveniles accounted for 16% of forcible rape arrestees in 1995 and 17% of those arrested for other sex offenses.2
    • In 1 in 3 sexual assaults, the perpetrator was intoxicated — 30% with alcohol, 4% with drugs.3
    • In 2001, 11% of rapes involved the use of a weapon — 3% used a gun, 6% used a knife, and 2 % used another form of weapon.2
    • 84% of victims reported the use of physical force only.2

    Rapists are more likely to be a serial criminal than a serial rapist.

    46% of rapists who were released from prison were re-arrested within 3 years of their release for another crime.4

    • 18.6% for a violent offense.
    • 14.8% for a property offense.
    • 11.2% for a drug offense.
    • 20.5% for a public-order offense.

    References

    1. U.S. Department of Justice. 2005 National Crime Victimization Study. 2005.
    2. U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Statistics. 1997 Sex Offenses and Offenders Study. 1997.
    3. U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Statistics. 1998 Alcohol and Crime Study. 1998.
    4. 2002 Recidivism of Prisoners Released in 1994 Study. 2002.

http://www.rainn.org...sault-offenders

Mabon.

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Some information from UK gov about rape: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/an-overview-of-sexual-offending-in-england-and-wales

It's a rather lengthy report, but this is the face page that blurbs some basic points. Thought it might be nice to put up some UK stats since that's where the OP article comes from.

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