Where did God come from?

[Euphorbia]

Where did God come from?,

This question will be answered either when you die or Christ returns.

If you're dead and god is the made up story I believe it to be, nothing will be answered......you're dead.

If god does exist and Jesus Christ does return, do you honestly think he will answer you?

[Mr.United_Nations]

Where did God's creater come from?

[Euphorbia]

Where did God's creater come from?

They always deny he had one......which explains everything!

[lightly]

The universe is either an open or a closed system.

There is no proof of which one it is and anybody claiming that there is is being ideological not scientific. If God created the universe then the universe is an open system. That means it can increase or decrease in mass or energy. Likewise scaling up the universe to the system God exists in then if thats a closed system the only way God could exist forever is if he can create mass or energy from nothingness.

So if you want to prove that God in principle could exist you need to find a form of free energy or mass.

Could dark energy and matter be sort of like that ? Anyway,, i know a guy who found GOD in Pasadena. Not sure if He's From there exactly.

[SilentHunter]

Could dark energy and matter be sort of like that ? Anyway,, i know a guy who found GOD in Pasadena. Not sure if He's From there exactly.

They are just explanations for why gravity doesnt behave as expected.

An open system means something exists outside of the universe. As God created the universe from conscious thought (according to the Bible) then the free energy has something to do with mind.

[Almagest]

Could dark energy and matter be sort of like that ? Anyway,, i know a guy who found GOD in Pasadena. Not sure if He's From there exactly.

Neither are free. Dark Matter interacts with gravity and not light. It's existence was discovered from observations of the rotational speeds of galaxies, and it's since been established that it plays an important role in galactic formation. Dark Energy is much more mysterious, but is tied to the increase in the acceleration of the expansion of the Universe.

[+Link of Hyrule]

If god is a spirit entity existing in a spirit realm it doesn't necessarily need a creator since Causality is a product of the physical universe. A spirit realm may have a completely different set of rules as this one, rules we in the physical realm cannot even begin to fathom, where things can exist without a creator force to create it.

[spud the mackem]

A long time ago,about 60.000 years a guy was sitting at his cave entrance looking at the stars when he suddenly thought that someone/thing must have put them there,so he told his mates who all looked up with him and one of them said, God put them there because he couldn't think of any other name,and lo it came to pass that the word spread that God put all the bright lights in the sky,and so God came into existence.

[Lilly]

If you look at the concept of "God" from a different perspective there's no need to personify any type of divine being. The Universe itself is divine. The idea that its always *been* in some form or another then begins to make sense.

http://www.pantheism.net/paul/basic-principles.htm

[Leonardo]

Where do you think God came from? If the Universe can't come from nothing and had to be created, where did the creator come from?

Are you asking the question as if god was an entity, or a concept?

Because the answer, and whether it is possible to answer, will depend on what sense you ask the question as.

[Jack Skellington]

If god is a spirit entity existing in a spirit realm it doesn't necessarily need a creator since Causality is a product of the physical universe. A spirit realm may have a completely different set of rules as this one, rules we in the physical realm cannot even begin to fathom, where things can exist without a creator force to create it.

Living in a closed system confined by our own minds and the limits of what we can conceive of based on our experiences, thoughts, feelings and imagination we are unable to even comprehend of One outside the system of our existence.

God is not limited by our limited ability to perceive.

"Where did God come from?"

All came from God. An uncaused Cause, as some say. All that is, is of him, and in him and from him and for him.

[Leonardo]

Living in a closed system confined by our own minds and the limits of what we can conceive of based on our experiences, thoughts, feelings and imagination we are unable to even comprehend of One outside the system of our existence.

God is not limited by our limited ability to perceive.

And how do you know that?

Is it because it is written in a book?

Or is it because you have some sort of personal experience which you believe is 'of God'? If so, how could you determine from that God is more than what you experienced?

It's all very well making claims of what god is, and no-one can deny you your opinion of that, but please do not state that opinion as if it was fact.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Leonardo

[Jack Skellington]

Hello Leonardo,

While you may be a sort of self-appointed judge, I'm not on trial here. The OP asked a question-- seeking comment.

If no one can deny me my opinion, well-- that would include you, right? We both know the mere stating of something doesn't make it so.

Do you hesitate to declare what God is not? And what do you base your opinion upon?

[White Crane Feather]

Neither are free. Dark Matter interacts with gravity and not light. It's existence was discovered from observations of the rotational speeds of galaxies, and it's since been established that it plays an important role in galactic formation. Dark Energy is much more mysterious, but is tied to the increase in the acceleration of the expansion of the Universe.

There is a plausible mechanism for dark energy. It would be an intergalactic csimier effect.

http://indico.cern.ch/getFile.py/access?contribId=15&sessionId=3&resId=0&materialId=slides&confId=199008

[Leonardo]

Hello Leonardo,

While you may be a sort of self-appointed judge, I'm not on trial here. The OP asked a question-- seeking comment.

If no one can deny me my opinion, well-- that would include you, right? We both know the mere stating of something doesn't make it so.

Do you hesitate to declare what God is not? And what do you base your opinion upon?

I don't know what god is, or is not. I don't know if god exists.

As you said, we cannot comprehend that which is "outside the system of our existence", so why would anyone have an opinion as to what god is, or is not - or whether anything "outside our system of existence" actually exists?

As to your opinion, yes I cannot deny you holding it. But I am free to point out it contradicts what you wrote immediately prior to it - i.e. if we cannot comprehend what is "outside our system", then how do we know it is not as limited as we are? My pointing that out does not deny you your opinion, but I would hope it causes you to think about it.

[tyrant lizard]

I there is an entity that created everything then the human mind wouldn't ba able to comprehend it. We've only had a few thousand years or evolving. Give us another million years and we might have some of the answers

[Grandpa Greenman]

Are you asking the question as if god was an entity, or a concept?

Because the answer, and whether it is possible to answer, will depend on what sense you ask the question as.

I guess that would be as an entity. I think we know were he came from as a concept, our minds, I would think. Dang Leo, now I am confused.

[SpiritWriter]

Perhaps God started as a single molecule?

Or a thought form that has no physical substance.

[Leonardo]

I guess that would be as an entity. I think we know were he came from as a concept, our minds, I would think. Dang Leo, now I am confused.

Nature is a concept - but is it born only of our minds, or is it something our minds acknowledge?

But nature is not an 'entity', and so neither might 'god' be an entity - yet might exist outside our mind.

Edited November 12, 2013 by Leonardo

[Grandpa Greenman]

In terms of a bio-sphere system nature is an entity. In pantheism the Universe in an entity. It is a living bio-system kind of like we are. Is it aware, I don't know, it might not any more aware of us as we are of an atom in our rectum.

In my opening post, my intent was an entity (god) outside of spacetime as in the Abrahamic God. Is that helpful?

[Leonardo]

In terms of a bio-sphere system nature is an entity. In pantheism the Universe in an entity. It is a living bio-system kind of like we are. Is it aware, I don't know, it might not any more aware of us as we are of an atom in our rectum.

In my opening post, my intent was an entity (god) outside of spacetime as in the Abrahamic God. Is that helpful?

Well, I would suggest nature is a system and while we might loosely consider a system a kind of 'entity', it's not an entity as we might consider 'god' - i.e. a 'being'.

I'm not particularly fond of expressions such as "outside spacetime", because what does that mean? If there is no space or time where something resides, then how can it reside there, or act? And if it's simply another 'spacetime', then what separates that from our 'spacetime'?

And I would argue this "outside spacetime" view of the Abrahamic deity is a modern invention to satisfy the other claims of that deity as being the "universe creator"; because of a misunderstanding of modern scientific theories; and to account for it's 'omni-abilities'. In the actual scripture upon which this deity is based, the deity exists within the universe it modifies (not 'creates from nothing') - not "outside spacetime".

Edited November 12, 2013 by Leonardo

[+Liquid Gardens]

In the actual scripture upon which this deity is based, the deity exists within the universe it modifies (not 'creates from nothing') - not "outside spacetime".

I guess that's one interpretation. I thought that when Genesis says that God created 'the heavens and the earth' that the 'heavens' counted as 'the universe' which he is then not merely 'modifying'. A lot can be read into the myth though.

[Jack Skellington]

I wouldn't necessarily agree with Leonardo on his assessment. The Genesis account is simply a story told from a certain perspective which includes a beginning point. It's like starting a story with "Once upon a time..." -or "There was once a man and one day...."

The account doesn't insist upon anything prior. In the account it's like God arrives on scene-- from where? Who knows? It speaks of the Abyss as being the place of beginning, when light is brought to it.

But what is the Abyss?

[Jack Skellington]

I don't know what god is, or is not. I don't know if god exists.

As you said, we cannot comprehend that which is "outside the system of our existence", so why would anyone have an opinion as to what god is, or is not - or whether anything "outside our system of existence" actually exists?

As to your opinion, yes I cannot deny you holding it. But I am free to point out it contradicts what you wrote immediately prior to it - i.e. if we cannot comprehend what is "outside our system", then how do we know it is not as limited as we are? My pointing that out does not deny you your opinion, but I would hope it causes you to think about it.

One man might humbly qualify what he says because of the little he knows. He can speak only of the tiny bit he has experienced, but of that little he can speak in truth.

Another man arrogantly dismisses what he has not himself experienced. He admits knowing not, but boldly speaks of the great amount he doesn't know.

--- If we speak of biology, or mathematics for example, I can speak regarding what I regard. What I know and observe and experience and understand. And I can know that there is much I do not know. Just because I don't know or understand, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I know anatomy and physiology to a degree. I can add, subtract and multiply... Yet there exists much more which is beyond me... Molecular structures, complex chemical bonds, calculus, quantum mechanics.... All beyond me, but not unknowable to others --- so I speak of the little I know, and don't deny the great amount beyond me. To do so is only a fool's logic.

And I can perceive infinite space, can't I? You might say that infinite is impossible to observe and it is also unknowable and beyond us, yet we seem to accept the infinity of space without any evidence beyond the little we experience. But because of the little we know, and the little we experience AND the humility of knowing there is much we do not know, we don't deny the things we don't know.

[Leonardo]

I guess that's one interpretation. I thought that when Genesis says that God created 'the heavens and the earth' that the 'heavens' counted as 'the universe' which he is then not merely 'modifying'. A lot can be read into the myth though.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with Leonardo on his assessment. The Genesis account is simply a story told from a certain perspective which includes a beginning point. It's like starting a story with "Once upon a time..." -or "There was once a man and one day...."

The account doesn't insist upon anything prior. In the account it's like God arrives on scene-- from where? Who knows? It speaks of the Abyss as being the place of beginning, when light is brought to it.

But what is the Abyss?

Genesis 1:1 actually says "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." Note the singular "heaven", not plural "heavens". This is important given the context of what was 'created'. In those early times, "heaven" was a great vault stretched across the sky at some indeterminate distance above Earth and in which the stars were set. However, it was not presumed there was nothing beyond "heaven". For a start, that was where much of the water for the Biblical Flood is alleged to have come.

So, God created Earth - which was water covering all the land - then separated the water with 'heaven'. Then God caused the water under 'heaven' to pool so dry land could appear.

In this creation story, Earth and it's water, and later those that dwelt upon and within it, is the entirety of the creation. There is no space, no solar system, no galaxies, etc. God did not create the universe, according to Abrahamic myth.

Edited November 12, 2013 by Leonardo