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sean6

Quantum physics proves that there IS an after

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Calibeliever

Whenever I read something like this it always reminds me of the smoky mirror... "Everything in existence is a manifestation of the one living being... human perception is merely light perceiving light... everything is a mirror and the world of illusion is just like smoke which doesn`t allow us to see what we really are". Don Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements.

Or more recently "My head's all tied up like a pretzel! I got a pretzel in my head!" Cal Naughton Jr., Talladega Nights.

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DieChecker

Quantum physics proves that there IS an afterlife, claims scientist

Most scientists would probably say that the concept of an afterlife is either nonsense, or at the very least unprovable.

Yet one expert claims he has evidence to confirm an existence beyond the grave - and it lies in quantum physics.

Professor Robert Lanza claims the theory of biocentrism teaches that death as we know it is an illusion created by our consciousness.

http://www.dailymail...-scientist.html

The title of the article doesn't make any sense regarding the theory behind it. At least to me.

How can you have...

And if space and time aren't linear, then death can't exist in 'any real sense' either

and...

Quantum physics proves that there IS an afterlife, claims scientist

If there is no Death, then there can't be an Afterlife.

I think this idea is full of contradictions to those who just think about it for a while and don't just buy into its mysticism wholesale.

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baro67

in practice this theory States the exact opposite of the Buddhist belief that denies the centrality of I..

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bmk1245

[...] Based only on the fact that we wouldn't also.

Based on that, you don't exist, you are just figment of my consciousness/imagination. Same thing you can say about me. Now, who's figmenting who?

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SilentHunter

That's true, but lets say the camera takes a picture in outer space, and sends it back to us. The observation the camera made is pointless without a human observing the picture it took, so as far as we would be concerned, without us, there would be no picture. We, as humans, would never know unless the picture was sent back to us.

I also meant to say, that you can take the above example and replace the picture with the entire physical universe that we've observed. I believe it's pointless without a conscious observer, and without us, it simply wouldn't exist. Based only on the fact that we wouldn't also.

We're actually talking about how probabilities work even though many might not realize it. You get a ruler out and all probabilities about the length of an object disappear leaving one. You get a thermometer out and all probabilities about the temperature of the water disappear leaving one.

All forms of measuring get rid of the probabilities and leave one outcome regardless of it being conscious or mechanical measuring.

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Rlyeh

That's true, but lets say the camera takes a picture in outer space, and sends it back to us. The observation the camera made is pointless without a human observing the picture it took, so as far as we would be concerned, without us, there would be no picture. We, as humans, would never know unless the picture was sent back to us.

However it doesn't need to send it back to us, the information can be operated on such as distances calculated. This fact shows the space between objects are real enough that they can be detected by non-conscious objects.
I also meant to say, that you can take the above example and replace the picture with the entire physical universe that we've observed. I believe it's pointless without a conscious observer, and without us, it simply wouldn't exist. Based only on the fact that we wouldn't also.

The picture wouldn't exist or the universe?

The picture - yes it wouldn't exist. The universe? It's done just fine without us for billions of years.

Edited by Rlyeh
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stevemagegod

Quantum Physics is still a new field. So someone will either prove or disapprove this theory.

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andy4

However it doesn't need to send it back to us, the information can be operated on such as distances calculated. This fact shows the space between objects are real enough that they can be detected by non-conscious objects.

The picture wouldn't exist or the universe?

The picture - yes it wouldn't exist. The universe? It's done just fine without us for billions of years.

It doesn't matter if the picture is taken or not, because nobody will ever see it.

Remember, the universe is only as old as we think it is. It's age is only based on theories and may be proven wrong a long time from now, only to change again. It's changed so many times that I truly doubt that we really know how long it's been around, and we don't even know how it got here. Well, that's just my 2 cents anyhow.

And technically speaking, before us, there was absolutely nothing here. We don't know what consciousness is and how it somehow interacts with the world around us. Without us observing the universe, there is no universe. Relative to us, of course.

Edited by andy4

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DieChecker

It is said that chimps, dolphins and elephants all display elements of conciousness.

I don't think we are Special enough to have "created the Universe. To realize it is actually there... Yes, but to "Create"... No.

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Rlyeh

It doesn't matter if the picture is taken or not, because nobody will ever see it.

Which has nothing to do with space being an illusion or not. A device that measures and maps distances will do it regardless of you seeing the pictures.
Remember, the universe is only as old as we think it is. It's age is only based on theories and may be proven wrong a long time from now, only to change again. It's changed so many times that I truly doubt that we really know how long it's been around, and we don't even know how it got here. Well, that's just my 2 cents anyhow.

And technically speaking, before us, there was absolutely nothing here. We don't know what consciousness is and how it somehow interacts with the world around us. Without us observing the universe, there is no universe. Relative to us, of course.

The universe is at least as old as the oldest object in it. Hell, the earth has been around longer than humans.

Consciousness and cognition means we are capable of discovering this.

Edit: It appears you're rejecting verifiable evidence in favour of few quack "theories".

Edited by Rlyeh

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spacelizard667

Not only that there is an Afterlife or Otherworld, but Christianity is one of the main perpetrators of the belief on faith in Jesus that spiritual existence ends with the physical death. Everything else too that they teach or sell to the public is simply cashing in on that false notion. No one has ever come back to tell us about their place in heaven, even though that is what The Church sells. Yes, sells. Each individual makes their own hell, and that is certainly real enough.

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DieChecker

I'm sorry someone hurt you spacelizard, but the churches I've been to ask for donations, but never demand, or sell anything. People are free to come and go as they please. No one is restraining them. That Christians hold to a belief in an afterlife is simply the desire to have reunion with your loved ones again, and to feel like doing what is right in life will have some kind of reward after death, even if there are no rewards recieved in life.

Several people have come back from a Heaven experience, possibly hundreds or thousands in the thousands of years since the time of Christ. But.... Their stories can't be backed up any more (Scientifically) then someones sightings of bigfoot. And that is where Faith comes in....

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spacelizard667

I'm sorry someone hurt you spacelizard, but the churches I've been to ask for donations, but never demand, or sell anything. People are free to come and go as they please. No one is restraining them. That Christians hold to a belief in an afterlife is simply the desire to have reunion with your loved ones again, and to feel like doing what is right in life will have some kind of reward after death, even if there are no rewards recieved in life.

Several people have come back from a Heaven experience, possibly hundreds or thousands in the thousands of years since the time of Christ. But.... Their stories can't be backed up any more (Scientifically) then someones sightings of bigfoot. And that is where Faith comes in....

I was referring to the Traditional Old Church with it's center in Rome; so obviously, I have no idea what you are referring to. If you want to clear up your own doubts about The Church, then ask the Pope.

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DieChecker

I was referring to the Traditional Old Church with it's center in Rome; so obviously, I have no idea what you are referring to. If you want to clear up your own doubts about The Church, then ask the Pope.

So, you are an Ex-Catholic? Ex-Catholics are some of the most bitter of people alive.

Now Scientology... There you have a religion you can BUY (Or rather Give Everything) into.

Edited by DieChecker

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danielost

I understand what i see can not be present without my consciousness thats ok but I dont understand how consciousnes doesnt die with death in the explained article though. perhaps I read fast and missed a part.

You, the real you continues to exist after your body dies. That would be your consciousness.

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danielost

Lanza is a medical doctor, not a physicist. There's no reason to publish his misguided wafflings about quantum physics over anyone else's.

Einstien was a patent clerk, when he published several papers on physics.

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danielost

So something non-conscious such as a camera should not record the illusion of space? And yet it does.

Or it does because you think it does.

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danielost

How quickly we turn on the experts when they say something we don't like. Such as einstein nt believing in time. He was correct about time.

When I played dungeon and dragons, we drew our maps on hex paper. Then when I heard about the hexagon shaped storm on saturn, my thought was god didn't finish saturn.

Ever notice as we get better and better camaras the planets get richer in detail. Then there is the fact that we keep finding things that are smaller and smaller as our tech increases. Right now the smallest thing are strings. But, when it comes to larger thing, our brains can't wrap around the idea of something even bigger.

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Lex540

whatever a man thinks??

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Lex540

then my message to lanza is dont die since its a fragment of your imagination

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Metal Head

But isn't it true as humans we are the only existing beings on Earth who can even imagine our own death? Consciousness itself is not tangible, it is formless, and only creates thoughts, emotions etc that are also formless. It does not have a physical existence so how can it create a physical Universe? There is no scientific or religious evidence that consciousness leaves the body because there is no way to measure it. It is not tangible.

Death seems to be the absence of consciousness, which makes me think it is similar to unconsciousness. During unconscious states you are unaware of anything around you including your own existence. If the mind is turned off, you have no way of telling whether you are alive or dead, conscious or unconscious, you are just a physical leftover of meat and blood.

Edited by Metal Head

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Frank Merton

I dunno that we are the only beings that can imagine our deaths. There are things here and there in other species that could be read that way.

Consciousness is not understood. Therefore I think it premature to think we know for sure that it dies with the body. The evidence we have points in that direction, but I have to think any evidence we could have would, so that doesn't get anywhere.

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SilentHunter

I dunno that we are the only beings that can imagine our deaths. There are things here and there in other species that could be read that way.

Consciousness is not understood. Therefore I think it premature to think we know for sure that it dies with the body. The evidence we have points in that direction, but I have to think any evidence we could have would, so that doesn't get anywhere.

This debate reminds me of the quantum suicide experiment - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_suicide_and_immortality

I remember a religious article (don't ask me where from as it was years ago so I can't remember) on there being secrets about how the universe works which you only gain access to through the darker states of mind. The one in question being that its impossible to commit suicide from your own point of view. You always survive it!

Even stranger, and this is insane to discuss, I do actually believe that I will never die from anything. I believe the universe will always come up with some way of keeping me alive. Currently it seems to be heading for humans discovering immortality from aging in the next 30-40 years.

I also remember being taught at school that Aristotle believed it was impossible to die. He was going to demonstrate it to his students by walking off a cliff. He didn't and from our point of view he would have died if he had tried but from his point of view he would have survived if the quantum suicide thought experiment is correct.

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Frank Merton

It sure will not be fair to me if it takes thirty or more years to figure out how to stop aging. ****!

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SilentHunter

It sure will not be fair to me if it takes thirty or more years to figure out how to stop aging. ****!

Are you old?

Maybe it will come quicker than that. Fingers crossed for you.

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