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sean6

Quantum physics proves that there IS an after

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baro67

and in any case, we all know that the universe does not exist as a result of our conscious awareness of it ... the universe existed, exists and will continue to exist with or without us ... This is the reality

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danielost

Can you prove any of that.

That sounds awful close to, I am the same now, yeterday, tomorrow.

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DieChecker

Maybe if everyone who believes the physical universe is an illusion were all knocked uncontious at the same time, the rest of us could find out?

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Frank Merton

and in any case, we all know that the universe does not exist as a result of our conscious awareness of it ... the universe existed, exists and will continue to exist with or without us ... This is the reality

It seems that way, but I can think of several ways, regardless, the universe could be our active creation. It's just that down that road lies troublesome complications.
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Leonardo

http://chronos-st.bl...ory-proven.html

http://www.newscient...ml#.Uot9A9LxrIw

Shall I carry on? Superposition is real and proved.

Nothing which you have linked to shows the superposition of a quantum object, SilentHunter.

All of them demonstrate only that using multiple objects in an interference pattern can produce a simultaneous "on/off" state detectable by a measuring instrument.

In quantum mechanics, however, the superposition is a state alleged to be held by a single quantum object (in the case of Schroedinger's thought experiment - the quantum cat). There has never been a successful demonstration of the superposition of a quantum object - i.e. where that object is shown to hold multiple states simultaneously. While this may be a limitation with measuring it still means the superposition is theoretical only - it has not been 'proven' true.

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IMONFIRE

So something non-conscious such as a camera should not record the illusion of space? And yet it does.

No it doesnt, its when we look at it we see through our eyes whats infront of the camera. To the cameras, there is nothing.

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Rlyeh

No it doesnt, its when we look at it we see through our eyes whats infront of the camera. To the cameras, there is nothing.

Who said we look through it? You've completely ignored my posts that address this.

A camera that measures distance is doing what, if space is an illusion of the human mind?

Automated guidance systems refute what you just said.

Edited by Rlyeh

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IMONFIRE

Who said we look through it? You've completely ignored my posts that address this.

A camera that measures distance is doing what, if space is an illusion of the human mind?

Automated guidance systems refute what you just said.

I didnt say look through it, please re-read what i wrote.

Edited by Mayan

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SilentHunter

All of them demonstrate only that using multiple objects in an interference pattern can produce a simultaneous "on/off" state detectable by a measuring instrument.

A lot of people don't understand what a superposition is. The interference pattern that shows the simultaneous on/off state is a superposition. Its two (or more) outcomes co-existing at the same time and that's what a superposition is.

Measurements conducted by measuring instruments don't detect superpositions they destroy them.

Edited by SilentHunter

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Rlyeh

I didnt say look through it, please re-read what i wrote.

I misread what you wrote. Still cameras wouldn't work if there is nothing.

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Leonardo

A lot of people don't understand what a superposition is. The interference pattern that shows the simultaneous on/off state is a superposition. Its two (or more) outcomes co-existing at the same time and that's what a superposition is.

Measurements conducted by measuring instruments don't detect superpositions they destroy them.

Technically true, but it still doesn't prove "Schroedinger's Cat" to be alive and dead simultaneously.

When dealing with systems of multiple interfering objects, achieving simultaneous and opposing states is possible, and there are many examples of such systems - qubits, for one.

But the superposition of multiple states on a singular quantum object (such as a solitary photon) has never been conclusively observed experimentally. Thus it is still theoretical.

That is the superposition Schroedinger was referring to, and was suggesting to be a "silly belief" by his thought experiment.

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SilentHunter

Technically true, but it still doesn't prove "Schroedinger's Cat" to be alive and dead simultaneously.

When dealing with systems of multiple interfering objects, achieving simultaneous and opposing states is possible, and there are many examples of such systems - qubits, for one.

But the superposition of multiple states on a singular quantum object (such as a solitary photon) has never been conclusively observed experimentally. Thus it is still theoretical.

That is the superposition Schroedinger was referring to, and was suggesting to be a "silly belief" by his thought experiment.

If we use electrons we can build a circuit that demonstrates non-locality by making use of superposition. That therefore proves superposition. I really can't believe we're even arguing over superposition as its been proven for over 50 years. I think there are some badly written articles out there and articles written by people who aren't physicists.

The very famous Bells Test Experiment - http://en.wikipedia....est_experiments - demonstrates the entanglement of elections in a circuit. The electrons are in superposition with each other. We know its real because the maths allows you to calculate observable results in the circuit.

On the Wiki page for quantum superposition scroll down to where it says 'experiments and applications' and have a look at whats written - http://en.wikipedia....nd_applications

Quotations from that wiki page -

1. A cat like state has been achieved with photons

2. A beryllium ion has been trapped in a superposed state

We also have quantum chips that use superposition and work and the interference pattern itself shows a superposed state. I am at a loss to why you lot think superposition is just an unproven idea when its the center-piece of quantum mechanics.

Edited by SilentHunter

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Mentalcase

Plot twist: Schroedinger had a dog!!

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SilentHunter

Plot twist: Schroedinger had a dog!!

Or was it a cat? Of was it dog and a cat at the same time?

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Troublehalf

Unless I am reading this incorrectly, he says that life created the universe. However, this is circular, something have to come before life. How was 'life' made?

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Mentalcase

Never taught the birds and the bees huh?

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pallidin

Schroedinger's thought experiment was actually recently(10-years or more) performed using mice at some university(sorry, don't have a link)

Anyway, the thrust of the study was that if, under those special conditions, the mice existed in a state of superposition, that upon observation there would be no prior tissue decay.

This was found not to be true. The mice that were observed to have died showed tissue decay consistant with death before the "chamber" was opened after few days or more. In other words, NO SUPERPOSITION. The seperate chambers were designed to allow the mice to live if the random trigger event would not cause death.

Apparently this was of no surprise, as the original Schroedinger's thought experiment was not to suggest it's validity, rather to illustrate the fallacy of human logic(according to Schroedinger himself)

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Calibeliever

I'm going with Forrest Gump on this one: "Maybe both is happening at the same time..."

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sepulchrave

Apparently this was of no surprise, as the original Schroedinger's thought experiment was not to suggest it's validity, rather to illustrate the fallacy of human logic(according to Schroedinger himself)

Very true.

I am always a little disappointed in how often Schroedinger's cat is misinterpreted. Schroedinger definitely understood that under no circumstances should the cat be both alive and dead at the same time. (Even ignoring how difficult it would be to construct actual quantum states corresponding to ``alive'' and ``dead''.)

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DieChecker

Or was it a cat? Of was it dog and a cat at the same time?

I guess we'll have to just be Uncertain if it is a cat or dog till the box is opened.

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DieChecker

Very true.

I am always a little disappointed in how often Schroedinger's cat is misinterpreted. Schroedinger definitely understood that under no circumstances should the cat be both alive and dead at the same time. (Even ignoring how difficult it would be to construct actual quantum states corresponding to ``alive'' and ``dead''.)

I agree. A cat can't be in superposition. Just because it is not seen does not affect its state.

Otherwise the billions of cats worldwide that I'm not watching right now could be Dead or Alive, and so the same logic would apply. And then apply to all animals and then all objects. Bad logic.

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Frank Merton

Thinking about what Palladin says above, I don't see that it proves anything. When the cannister goes of/doesn't go off, those mice that are dead will begin to decay and those that aren't won't. The thought experiment doesn't say the mice die when the box is opened: they are both alive and dead the whole time, so if they are found dead, they will have been dead and there will be decay.

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Frank Merton

Very true.

I am always a little disappointed in how often Schroedinger's cat is misinterpreted. Schroedinger definitely understood that under no circumstances should the cat be both alive and dead at the same time. (Even ignoring how difficult it would be to construct actual quantum states corresponding to ``alive'' and ``dead''.)

I disagree and think that both Schroedinger and those following him lack imagination. It is counterintuitive is all. I would also say that if this view is right, we have no option I can see except to adopt a multiple-universe multiple-time line interpretation.

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spacecowboy342

Einstien was a patent clerk, when he published several papers on physics.

Einstein had been schooled in physics he just hadn't found a job in the field yet. And Lanza is no Einstein

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spacecowboy342

You, the real you continues to exist after your body dies. That would be your consciousness.

That is unproved. Just as likely that the consciousness dies with the brain that produces it

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