Self-styled 'hardcore huntress'

[Commander CMG]

• Melissa Bachman presents a series called Winchester Deadly Passion about hunting
  
• The 'hardcore huntress' posted a picture of herself with a lion she killed on Twitter
  
• The reaction was immediate condemnation
  
• A petition to prevent her from returning to South Africa, where she shot the lion, has been signed more than 13,000 times
  

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[freetoroam]

Do not do guns or have a twitter account, but would gladly make an exception in this case.

Would shoot her myself and stick that on twitter "what a hunt!" that would be.

[TopToffee]

The 'Great White Hunter' should only bag an animal with his/her hands.Kind of unfair to take an animal down with an advantage of a gun in my opinion.Cant call yourself a hunter then.By the way,I bagged the three ants,2 flies and a spider with my bare hands(and a copy of The Independent).Did not dare take on the wasp because it stung.

[redhen]

This kind of "sport hunting" is the definition of animal cruelty, it is completely unnecessary.

For people like this who feel the need to satisfy their blood-lust, I would suggest enlisting in the army and make yourself useful. Oh yeah, that's right, the enemy fires back. Bunch of cowards!

A quote from Andrew Linzey (Director of the Oxford Center for Animal Ethics) on "sport" hunting;

"A sport may be defined as a contest between two, or more, parties who test their normally equally matched skills. But there are no equally matched parties in bird shooting. What characterises killing for “sport” is the unequal nature of the encounter, as witnessed by the rate and ease of the kills. Against guns, birds have little chance to escape, and most don’t or, if they do, die of their wounds. There is no such thing as the “sport” of killing, only humans enjoying themselves at the expense of animal life and suffering. It deserves the greatest moral censure."

[Rafterman]

Did she break any laws - no.

Does the Government of South Africa sanction these types of hunts - yes.

Does the Government of South Africa make a significant amount of money from hunters coming in and taking native game - yes.

Do the People of South Africa receive significant financial benefit from such hunting - yes.

Does your "moral outrage" allow you to tell someone else what they can or can't do - no.

This kind of "sport hunting" is the definition of animal cruelty, it is completely unnecessary.

For people like this who feel the need to satisfy their blood-lust, I would suggest enlisting in the army and make yourself useful. Oh yeah, that's right, the enemy fires back. Bunch of cowards!

A quote from Andrew Linzey (Director of the Oxford Center for Animal Ethics) on "sport" hunting;

"A sport may be defined as a contest between two, or more, parties who test their normally equally matched skills. But there are no equally matched parties in bird shooting. What characterises killing for “sport” is the unequal nature of the encounter, as witnessed by the rate and ease of the kills. Against guns, birds have little chance to escape, and most don’t or, if they do, die of their wounds. There is no such thing as the “sport” of killing, only humans enjoying themselves at the expense of animal life and suffering. It deserves the greatest moral censure."

Says someone who has obviously never tried to shoot a moving target.

[msmike1]

I personally have no desire to kill a lion, elephant, rhino, etc... These types of hunts don't really appeal to me. I am a hunter. I do hunt many different species. As far as I know lion are legal to hunt in south africa and she did nothing illegal. That being the case, have your opinion, good or bad, and let that be that. No reason to hang this woman for doing something completely legal. Not saying everyone has to agree with it, I don't have any desire to do it, but hey no big deal. No difference in me going out and killing a deer, or her killing a lion. Only real difference is I do it for the sport and meat, while she does it for trophies. That I don't agree with, but until it's outlawed, then there is nothing to be done about it. Hunters are the greatest conservationists, and I am sure the money she, and other hunters spend on guns, ammo, liscenses, etc... in south africa, go towards a great deal of conservation support.

Mike

[Controller Junkie]

What a shame. I personally feel that hunting is ok under one condition:Survival. If you are going to eat it then go ahead and hunt it. We are hunter gatherers b instinct and hunting to eat well is life. As for trophy hunting as this chick in the post has done, well its just needless killing which presents a strong case for humans being a very negative invasive species on the planet..All created life is beautiful and to hunt these creatures for the simple trophy of it, well is barbaric. Glad to see there is some outrage over the matter and she is being condemned insgead of hailed. Hopefully we as a race can get past this.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Controller Junkie

[Rafterman]

I personally have no desire to kill a lion, elephant, rhino, etc... These types of hunts don't really appeal to me. I am a hunter. I do hunt many different species. As far as I know lion are legal to hunt in south africa and she did nothing illegal. That being the case, have your opinion, good or bad, and let that be that. No reason to hang this woman for doing something completely legal. Not saying everyone has to agree with it, I don't have any desire to do it, but hey no big deal. No difference in me going out and killing a deer, or her killing a lion. Only real difference is I do it for the sport and meat, while she does it for trophies. That I don't agree with, but until it's outlawed, then there is nothing to be done about it. Hunters are the greatest conservationists, and I am sure the money she, and other hunters spend on guns, ammo, liscenses, etc... in south africa, go towards a great deal of conservation support.

Mike

Excellent points.

[redhen]

Did she break any laws - no.

Probably not.

Does the Government of South Africa sanction these types of hunts - yes.

Speaking of sanctions, The Government of South Africa has had all kinds of reprehensible laws. i.e. apartheid.

Does the Government of South Africa make a significant amount of money from hunters coming in and taking native game - yes.

I have no idea. You seem certain about so many South African facts. What's your source?

Do the People of South Africa receive significant financial benefit from such hunting - yes.

again, source please.

Does your "moral outrage" allow you to tell someone else what they can or can't do - no.

Ethics is the foundation of many of our laws, whether English common law, Roman law, Napoleonic code, etc.. Everyone makes normative judgements about other people, happens all the time. If enough people have the same normative judgements, norms and laws change. That happens all the time too, ethics does not stand still, it is constantly changing.

Says someone who has obviously never tried to shoot a moving target.

You must have missed the part about the target firing back.

[msmike1]

Probably not.

Speaking of sanctions, The Government of South Africa has had all kinds of reprehensible laws. i.e. apartheid.

I have no idea. You seem certain about so many South African facts. What's your source?

again, source please.

Ethics is the foundation of many of our laws, whether English common law, Roman law, Napoleonic code, etc.. Everyone makes normative judgements about other people, happens all the time. If enough people have the same normative judgements, norms and laws change. That happens all the time too, ethics does not stand still, it is constantly changing.

You must have missed the part about the target firing back.

http://www.sportingshootermag.com.au/news/hunting-is-vital-for-economy-wildlife-south-africa

[rashore]

I hate sport/trophy hunting. Don't have one jot of respect for it either. In a way I don't understand it either- Hey look, there's an exotic/rare animal, lets kill it! I don't understand how shooting housecats for fun is bad, but shooting a cat bigger than me is great fun and acceptable to some folks. Or horses vs other trophy four legged critters. Or dogs vs wolves. I just don't get it.

Conservation and food hunting I understand and respect. Hunters do (IMO) play an important role in the food chain there- we have greatly reduced natural predator populations for our own sakes, and kind of need to step in and fill the roles we have greatly removed from the wild. And hunters of this sort tend to eat/use either most of or the whole animal.

My personal thoughts on the morality of the whole thing aside...

What she did was legal, so the outrage would be better directed to changing that fact rather than trying to get one hunter banned from going back to hunt again. After all, there are other hunters. Though I did sort of wonder if perhaps part of the outrage was because she is female, and quite brazenly so.

I was rather disappointed that in all of the photos, she had guns. The article mentions her archery, it would have been nice to see some of her archery equipment.

And probably a girl thing- but I noticed how she busts out with the glory hair in several shots, and that just made me laugh.

[redhen]

http://www.sportings...fe-south-africa

Ok, granted, sport hunting in South Africa brings in substantial revenue, both legally and illegally. That said, sport hunting is by definition unnecessary and thus cruel.

I would hope that in the future more countries will emulate Costa Ricans who submitted a "popular initiative, with 177,000 signatures " that made sport hunting illegal.

http://www.reuters.c...E8BA04P20121211

[Whisperer]

In this day and age and especially for 'Civilized nations' it is totally selfish egotism...other folks who have no choice hunt only for food...

There is no sport in Trophy Hunting, only murder...

[Skep B]

I'm not sure I understand the "no sport" idea.

TO me this lion has teeth, speed, claws, superior strength, etc etc.

We have brains, with those brains we've created weapons.

To me it seems fine, both species using their evolutionarily given assets

[redhen]

I'm not sure I understand the "no sport" idea.

TO me this lion has teeth, speed, claws, superior strength, etc etc.

We have brains, with those brains we've created weapons.

To me it seems fine, both species using their evolutionarily given assets

There seems to be two logical fallacies here.

i) Naturalistic fallacy: Whatever is natural is morally good. Male lions kill lion cubs and then impregnate (rape) the females, therefore it is ethically right for humans to do the same.

ii) Might is Right. We can enslave humans and commit genocide against weaker human populations, because we all started out as primitive one celled organisms, on an equal playing field.

Both of these beliefs are abhorrent, and I doubt you actually live your life by this creed.

[msmike1]

If your definition of sport hunting is to intentionally kill an animal just because you want to kill it for its horns, head, cape, etc... and you have no desire to use any other part of this animal, well, then I agree with sport hunting being unethical, unsportsmanlike, and wrong. Now I do hunt as I stated earlier. I hunt because I enjoy it, and because I like to eat what I kill. It tastes good, and is healthier for myself and my family than anything you buy in the store. I abide by laws, and don't kill more than my limit of any animal that I may hunt. So I guess if that is your definition of sport hunting than we disagree.

Mike

[Rafterman]

Probably not.

Speaking of sanctions, The Government of South Africa has had all kinds of reprehensible laws. i.e. apartheid.

I have no idea. You seem certain about so many South African facts. What's your source?

again, source please.

Ethics is the foundation of many of our laws, whether English common law, Roman law, Napoleonic code, etc.. Everyone makes normative judgements about other people, happens all the time. If enough people have the same normative judgements, norms and laws change. That happens all the time too, ethics does not stand still, it is constantly changing.

You must have missed the part about the target firing back.

http://mg.co.za/article/2013-05-28-hunting-industry-earns-sa-r62-billion

A target doesn't have to "fire back" to be a challenge.

[Rafterman]

Ok, granted, sport hunting in South Africa brings in substantial revenue, both legally and illegally. That said, sport hunting is by definition unnecessary and thus cruel.

I would hope that in the future more countries will emulate Costa Ricans who submitted a "popular initiative, with 177,000 signatures " that made sport hunting illegal.

http://www.reuters.c...E8BA04P20121211

Who says sport hunting is unnecessary? Animal populations have to be maintained at sustainable levels and in a lot of cases only hunting can do that in an absence of predators. Does it really matter if that hunting is being done by someone who enjoys it vs doing it for food?

[Rafterman]

If your definition of sport hunting is to intentionally kill an animal just because you want to kill it for its horns, head, cape, etc... and you have no desire to use any other part of this animal, well, then I agree with sport hunting being unethical, unsportsmanlike, and wrong. Now I do hunt as I stated earlier. I hunt because I enjoy it, and because I like to eat what I kill. It tastes good, and is healthier for myself and my family than anything you buy in the store. I abide by laws, and don't kill more than my limit of any animal that I may hunt. So I guess if that is your definition of sport hunting than we disagree.

Mike

If Redhen were honest, he would admit to being an animal rights supporter who opposes the use of animals for any purpose - and certainly any form of hunting.

But he would rather play his morality games instead of coming out and admitting what he truly believes.