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Neurosurgeon: Obamacare Threatens Freedom


joc

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Wrong! We never paid higher rates for those who went to ERs without insurance. That wasn't and isn't and never has been figured into the rates of insurance...Insurance Companies are not the ones paying that bill...YOU are...I am...we all are...Not the Insurance Companies.

No, it isn't the nature of insurance. I've heard this mentioned many time before, but insurance companies don't pay for the uninsured in any fashion...our taxes do. I wouldn't object to someone proving me wrong on that point because I've been wondering where that thought originated.

I missed your post before I responded. Great minds and all that jazz... :tu:

Edited by Michelle
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Just curious...how do you know so much about the history of the word Vietnam...but know nothing about the history of Obamacare? Or...Obama...for that matter?

I grew up watching the body counts on TV while my brother was in Viet Nam or Vietnam or however you want to spell it. Perhaps if those who opposed Obamacare stated logical objections to it as some of you have instead of voicing rhetoric about it being the worst law in the history of laws I would be better informed. I am no fan of Obamacare but I am also opposed to the republican alternative of business as usual
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I grew up watching the body counts on TV while my brother was in Viet Nam or Vietnam or however you want to spell it. Perhaps if those who opposed Obamacare stated logical objections to it as some of you have instead of voicing rhetoric about it being the worst law in the history of laws I would be better informed. I am no fan of Obamacare but I am also opposed to the republican alternative of business as usual

Ding, ding, ding...we have a winner! :tu:

See...I knew there was something I liked about you! I guess the big difference is, you don't see the Democrats as snakes...while I see them as spitting vipors...while I also see the Republicans as spitting vipors....they are all a bunch of lying thieves. :gun:

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The name comes from Chinese anyway. It's like Hanoi, which in Vietnamese is Ha Noi or Saigon, in Vietnamese Sai Gon. The same thing happens to Chinese city names when you Anglicize them. This is because both Chinese and Vietnamese are monosyllabic languages. Sorry for the distraction from the topic.

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Perhaps if those who opposed Obamacare stated logical objections to it as some of you have instead of voicing rhetoric about it being the worst law in the history of laws I would be better informed. I am no fan of Obamacare but I am also opposed to the republican alternative of business as usual

The following 10 “essential health benefits” are required by the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act of 2010:

-Ambulatory patient services, also known as outpatient care.

-Emergency room visits and services.

-Hospitalization.

-Maternity and newborn care.

-Mental health and substance-use disorder services.

-Prescription drugs.

-Rehabilitative and habilitative services.

-Laboratory services.

-Preventive and wellness services.

-Pediatric services, including oral and vision care.

Just FYI...any health insurance policy that does not carry all of the above are considered sub-standard and therefore being canceled whether you would ever need them or not.

Edited by Michelle
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Ding, ding, ding...we have a winner! :tu:

See...I knew there was something I liked about you! I guess the big difference is, you don't see the Democrats as snakes...while I see them as spitting vipors...while I also see the Republicans as spitting vipors....they are all a bunch of lying thieves. :gun:

Actually, my opinion of politicians isn't much different than yours. Perhaps we disagree on which is the lesser of two evils. No doubt this Obamacare thing is flawed but what was the alternative? As was pointed out above taxpayers are already paying for those who don't have insurance now. And there are elderly people having to choose between food and medicine. This is intolerable in the richest country in the world.
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The following 10 “essential health benefits” are required by the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act of 2010:

-Ambulatory patient services, also known as outpatient care.

-Emergency room visits and services.

-Hospitalization.

-Maternity and newborn care.

-Mental health and substance-use disorder services.

-Prescription drugs.

-Rehabilitative and habilitative services.

-Laboratory services.

-Preventive and wellness services.

-Pediatric services, including oral and vision care.

Just FYI...any health insurance policy that does not carry all of the above are considered sub-standard and therefore being canceled whether you would ever need them or not.

And still no dental? Figures. Obviously everyone isn't going to need all those but I would assume packaging it all together as one deal should make it cheaper for everyone.
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And still no dental? Figures. Obviously everyone isn't going to need all those but I would assume packaging it all together as one deal should make it cheaper for everyone.

I wonder...does having full coverage car insurance make rates cheaper for those with only liability?

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And still no dental? Figures.

Haha, I know!

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Allow me to dissent back...

....please tell me, where in the Constitution, is the express right of the Federal Government (or any other body of government) to mandate that an American citizen purchase something...anything? Where is that right expressed in the Constitution?

...it's not...

...This is Communism QM, not Capitalism, not even Socialism...this is out and out Dictatorial Government...and you know what? I'm not playing..the Federal Government can kiss my ass! The Supreme Court doesn't have the power to tell me I must buy something. The President doesn't...no one does...get that? No one. Not you, not my wife, not my kids, not my neighbors...no one. I can walk away from the whole bloody thing and be homeless and indigent if I want to and no one has the power to tell me I cannot do that....but...HEY>>>

That being said...what about the homeless QM...are they not also mandated to buy health insurance? And what if they can't...and of course they can't...buy health insurance....will they also have the same tax penalty levied against them as me or you? And what if they can't...and of course they can't...pay that tax penalty? What then? Will they be jailed? Will you? Will I?

Your obvious 'okay' with being told what to do, with out any kind of knee jerk, 'wait a minute here' response, tells me that you are a Statist...a Totalitarianist...and...as we call them in Texas...Communist. At least a commie sympathizer...would you just please tell me that you are a Communist? Then I won't get labeled for name calling... :yes:

I believe technically that would be tax evasion. Yearly taxes being where the fine is supposed to be charged, right?

Guy, I'm surprised you don't know this by now. See post #1 & post #55. It solves your question.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=252534&st=0

Edited by F3SS
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To a certain extent, yes. You are required to have car insurance, but the minimum is to cover the other person's car in the instance an accident is your fault. You can choose to cover the cost of your own car or not. The same with homeowners insurance. If you live on a mountain where it's not prone to floods you can choose not to have that coverage. If it's in a 100 year flood plain you can take a gamble but it's not required if you own it outright. Homeowner's insurance isn't required at all if it's paid for. You can also buy insurance strictly for the structure or along with the contents of said structure.

I didn't deny the consumer doesn't have influence over what the producer produces, Michelle - in fact I stated that.

But Dr Carson, in the OP, is talking about control - not influence. Americans don't control their healthcare, but they do have some influence over it. At present, the healthcare providers have the most overt 'control' over healthcare provision.

The purpose in making an analogy with insurance, was to point out the fallacy in Dr Carson's argument. Perhaps my analogy was weak, and so some didn't see the point I was making.

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I wonder...does having full coverage car insurance make rates cheaper for those with only liability?

I don't know about that but I suspect making full coverage auto insurance mandatory for everyone would make it cheaper for those who already have full coverage, though still more expensive than those with just liability pay now which would seem analagous to the situation here
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I don't know about that but I suspect making full coverage auto insurance mandatory for everyone would make it cheaper for those who already have full coverage, though still more expensive than those with just liability pay now which would seem analagous to the situation here

I would think those who buy full coverage have newer cars and making it mandatory to insure all cars will just add a bunch of clunkers.
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I would think those who buy full coverage have newer cars and making it mandatory to insure all cars will just add a bunch of clunkers.

Granted, and it would seem unfair to require those clunker owners to have full coverage. Health care is a bit different as with it even the clunkers require insurance. Insurance companies are unwilling to insure these human clunkers which leads to the situation we have now. Obamacare is flawed, but I think, better than doing nothing to address this issue.
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I think insurance could be a tool but should not be the only tool. As it is health care is way too expensive in the States -- significantly more so than any other country, including many with better health results.

There are many reasons for this -- the hugely and excessive educational requirements for doctors, all the law suits when things go badly, the ponderous requirements for drug approvals and the ensuing patent protection, the structure of having medical providers largely protected from competitive forces (hard to create when life and death are at issue) and the fact that most of anyone's medical bills will be incurred in the last month or so of life (hence the talk about death committees).

I think a system of subsidies could supplement insurance so that many could afford to go without it. One thing I would say is that in American's political system as it is now a reasoned, rational approach seems highly unlikely.

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I think insurance could be a tool but should not be the only tool. As it is health care is way too expensive in the States -- significantly more so than any other country, including many with better health results.

There are many reasons for this -- the hugely and excessive educational requirements for doctors, all the law suits when things go badly, the ponderous requirements for drug approvals and the ensuing patent protection, the structure of having medical providers largely protected from competitive forces (hard to create when life and death are at issue) and the fact that most of anyone's medical bills will be incurred in the last month or so of life (hence the talk about death committees).

I think a system of subsidies could supplement insurance so that many could afford to go without it. One thing I would say is that in American's political system as it is now a reasoned, rational approach seems highly unlikely.

I agree that a reasoned approach seems unlikely at best. I think the insurance companies themselves drive up health care costs to make themselves indespensable, but I am cynical by nature. I may be wrong about this but I think we are the only major industrialized country without socialized medicine. And we are the ones whose healthcare is most expensive. Coincidence?
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No if you are truly Texan then you know the truth of my words as well as I do. I'm just really not that interested in doing that much work for this crap. Name one business other than the Rangers that he succeeded at.

Governor of Texas...twice. Name one business Obama was successful at?

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Governor of Texas...twice. Name one business Obama was successful at?

First and second African-American president leaps to mind.The fact that W was elected governor of Texas twice says more about the limited intellect of many of my fellow Texans than his abilities IMO
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First and second African-American president leaps to mind.The fact that W was elected governor of Texas twice says more about the limited intellect of many of my fellow Texans than his abilities IMO

Bush was elected President twice as well and that isn't he question you asked. The question you asked was "Name one business other than the Rangers that he succeeded at?"

Of course, you initially stated that he had failed with the Rangers, guess the link worked after all and you saw that he made $15 million off his $800k investment. His ventures in the oil industry during a time of rapidly decreasing prices was fairly normal for the time and oil exploration is always very risky but he didn't fail. You may hate the man for various reasons and I am not real fond of his liberal antics while in office, but it isn't because of his policies because you love Barry Obama and he has taken all of GW's policies and tripled down on them.

The point here is you can't name one thing that Obama was successful at before his miraculous defeat of Hillary. Let's face facts, McCain was a p***-poor candidate and never before in this nation's history has a politician had the support of the press like Barry Obama. His record since being elected is abysmal, however and it is all catching up with him now. Unfortunately the people will suffer for it, not Barry.

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Bush was elected President twice as well and that isn't he question you asked. The question you asked was "Name one business other than the Rangers that he succeeded at?"

Of course, you initially stated that he had failed with the Rangers, guess the link worked after all and you saw that he made $15 million off his $800k investment. His ventures in the oil industry during a time of rapidly decreasing prices was fairly normal for the time and oil exploration is always very risky but he didn't fail. You may hate the man for various reasons and I am not real fond of his liberal antics while in office, but it isn't because of his policies because you love Barry Obama and he has taken all of GW's policies and tripled down on them.

The point here is you can't name one thing that Obama was successful at before his miraculous defeat of Hillary. Let's face facts, McCain was a p***-poor candidate and never before in this nation's history has a politician had the support of the press like Barry Obama. His record since being elected is abysmal, however and it is all catching up with him now. Unfortunately the people will suffer for it, not Barry.

I agree with your assessment of McCain and I am no Obama apologist. I considered him the lesser of two evils against both McCain and Romney. I wanted to like the guy but he has disillusioned me greatly. Still I shudder to think of a Romney presidency. I probably shouldn't have brought up Bush at all last night but I had a beer buzz and as you can tell I'm no fan of his. I didn't agree with his father's politics either but I felt I could respect the man.
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Being elected president is an achievement, not a business success.

As is being elected governor of Texas
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I agree with your assessment of McCain and I am no Obama apologist. I considered him the lesser of two evils against both McCain and Romney. I wanted to like the guy but he has disillusioned me greatly. Still I shudder to think of a Romney presidency. I probably shouldn't have brought up Bush at all last night but I had a beer buzz and as you can tell I'm no fan of his. I didn't agree with his father's politics either but I felt I could respect the man.

No problem.

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Actually, my opinion of politicians isn't much different than yours. Perhaps we disagree on which is the lesser of two evils. No doubt this Obamacare thing is flawed but what was the alternative? As was pointed out above taxpayers are already paying for those who don't have insurance now. And there are elderly people having to choose between food and medicine. This is intolerable in the richest country in the world.

The elderly are not choosing between food and medicine. That is a Democrat Playbook lie. The elderly have Medicare and if they are poor they also have Medicaid...and food stamps...and meals on wheels...etc.

But...and...speaking of the elderly...

...a scenario: You are elderly, you have all your health care needs laid out the way that is best suited for you...you have your doctor, you have your medicines, everything is laid out and you have planned it all out...and...you have cancer...or some other 'something' and your health care is taking care of all of that and you have your 'system' all in place...Along comes Obamacare and suddenly...poof...you can't see that doctor you have been seeing for years...suddenly...that hospital you were used to isn't on the list of places you can visit for your particular situation.

Millions of people are finding they are displaced from the Health Care CHOICES they made.

What is better than Obamacare? The way things were BEFORE Obamacare is a great improvement. Solution: Kill Obamacare...and now that we have everyone's attention...let's actually create some 'real life' good for those in need of healthcare.

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The elderly are not choosing between food and medicine. That is a Democrat Playbook lie. The elderly have Medicare and if they are poor they also have Medicaid...and food stamps...and meals on wheels...etc.

But...and...speaking of the elderly...

...a scenario: You are elderly, you have all your health care needs laid out the way that is best suited for you...you have your doctor, you have your medicines, everything is laid out and you have planned it all out...and...you have cancer...or some other 'something' and your health care is taking care of all of that and you have your 'system' all in place...Along comes Obamacare and suddenly...poof...you can't see that doctor you have been seeing for years...suddenly...that hospital you were used to isn't on the list of places you can visit for your particular situation.

Millions of people are finding they are displaced from the Health Care CHOICES they made.

What is better than Obamacare? The way things were BEFORE Obamacare is a great improvement. Solution: Kill Obamacare...and now that we have everyone's attention...let's actually create some 'real life' good for those in need of healthcare.

George Bush did it.

Seriously, well said and I feel for tehse people that are being abused by a political party that thinks only of its own power at every juncture. ACA is strctly about democrats remaining in power for teh next few decades as every election cycle we will hear the threat of the republicans want to take away your healthcare. Get them addicted then use that addiction as a hammer to stay in power. Disgusting and criminal.

Edited by Merc14
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