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Neurosurgeon: Obamacare Threatens Freedom


joc

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To a certain extent, yes. You are required to have car insurance, but the minimum is to cover the other person's car in the instance an accident is your fault. You can choose to cover the cost of your own car or not. The same with homeowners insurance. If you live on a mountain where it's not prone to floods you can choose not to have that coverage. If it's in a 100 year flood plain you can take a gamble but it's not required if you own it outright. Homeowner's insurance isn't required at all if it's paid for. You can also buy insurance strictly for the structure or along with the contents of said structure.

And that makes perfect sense unless you consider that those without insurance end up at the emergency room at the cost of those who do. This is not about the poor uninsured, this is about the insured who have to foot third party bills because there are uninsured.

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And that makes perfect sense unless you consider that those without insurance end up at the emergency room at the cost of those who do. This is not about the poor uninsured, this is about the insured who have to foot third party bills because there are uninsured.

I wasn't referring to health insurance at all, unless you want to talk about giving me the right not to have to pay for maternity care, which is now required, that I have no use for. As far as people going to the emergency room why don't we have better education as to the availability of getting free health care instead? There are a myriad of ways to receive health care based on your income or of no charge whatsoever. The same people who are so adept at getting every kind of assistance available to them when it comes to food and housing are totally ignorant of their health care options. I think this kind of information would benefit everyone.

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I wasn't referring to health insurance at all, unless you want to talk about giving me the right not to have to pay for maternity care, which is now required, that I have no use for. As far as people going to the emergency room why don't we have better education as to the availability of getting free health care instead? There are a myriad of ways to receive health care based on your income or of no charge whatsoever. The same people who are so adept at getting every kind of assistance available to them when it comes to food and housing are totally ignorant of their health care options. I think this kind of information would benefit everyone.

Yep! Where I live, there are several clinics that give women free yearly checkups, mammograms, and free birth control, as well as free children's checkups and vaccines. You just fill out the paperwork.

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I wasn't referring to health insurance at all, unless you want to talk about giving me the right not to have to pay for maternity care, which is now required, that I have no use for. As far as people going to the emergency room why don't we have better education as to the availability of getting free health care instead? There are a myriad of ways to receive health care based on your income or of no charge whatsoever. The same people who are so adept at getting every kind of assistance available to them when it comes to food and housing are totally ignorant of their health care options. I think this kind of information would benefit everyone.

So, you really want socialism?

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Why is a Neruo surgeon's views on politics something important?

If he has something to say about fixing a problem w/ the central nervous system, but his political views are probably as valid as mine, or anyone else's

yet uyou worshipped a community organizer enough to put him in charge of your country and your healthcare. How ridiculously asinine and ignorant the left is.

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So, you really want socialism?

These programs to help the people who need them have been available for years. Why aren't they being utilized properly?

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yet uyou worshipped a community organizer enough to put him in charge of your country and your healthcare. How ridiculously asinine and ignorant the left is.

And the guy before him was a failed oilman and baseball owner who led us to war. Ridiculous and asinine? Back atcha
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And the guy before him was a failed oilman and baseball owner who led us to war. Ridiculous and asinine? Back atcha

Wow, you're brilliant!! Time to recap here. George W. Bush owned a a multimillion dollar baseball team, made millions in the oil industry, then, as Governor, ran one of the most prosperous states in the country, Texas and won reelection with 69% of the vote. He ran a state! Obama never ran more than a book club. He never even had a job!

Bush also flew fighter jets in the Texas ANG and actually married a beautiful woman, two things Obama was incapable of doing. He overcame an alcohol problem but Barry can't quit smoking liek he promised to and Bush never did cocaine like Barry. Word is he is still snorting.

Oh yeah, we got to see Bush's diplomas and transcripts etc. etc, yet I have never seen any of Obama's grades, papers, diplomas, people that attended school with him, nothing. Why? If he i so brilliant why not show some proof.

Back atcha! LMFAO

Edited by Merc14
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You know he's going to mention the whole "dodged the draft" bit about Bush nect, don't you?

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And that makes perfect sense unless you consider that those without insurance end up at the emergency room at the cost of those who do. This is not about the poor uninsured, this is about the insured who have to foot third party bills because there are uninsured.

And, what 99% of those people are still uninsured. :innocent: Best guess estimates are, what, that about 30% MIGHT be covered within a year?

Yes, a very good fix this is. All those 48 Million people will not be using the ERs now. (sarcasm) :whistle:

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Allow me to dissent, the only thing that was taken away is NOT having insurance, the rest stays as it was.

I agree with the others that stuff has been taken away. Dispite Obama wanting to fix it NOW, it is not the law yet, correct?

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I agree with the others that stuff has been taken away. Dispite Obama wanting to fix it NOW, it is not the law yet, correct?

Obama can't legally fix it now though, can he. Congress makes the law, not a President who thinks he rules by fiat.

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I concede that the body of consumers has some influence over what is consumed, but influence is not - to my mind - the 'control' the good doctor in the OP article is suggesting.

Fair enough, but with many big insurance companies and thousands of small time companies, it would seem to me that anyone would be able to go out and find what insurance they individually need.

Why does a 55 year old single man need maternity coverage? Why would a blind man need eye care? Why would a man need a policy that covers vaginal examines and birth control? Why shouldn't we be able to just get the coverage we want for ourselves?

The minimum coverage demands are probably the single most costly part of the ACA. And probably what will require long term changes.

As for being sold that legislation will solve the issues with healthcare in the US, that's probably a fair call - legislation would. The problem with the current legislation is that it doesn't do everything right first-time, and people who have a vested interest in the previous status-quo are playing that up to the public instead of saying "well, it's a start but we should now work to make it work better."

I do agree that much of the ACA is not "evil", but is useful. Myself, I simply don't like the way it was packaged and pushed through government by one party only. If the republicans did the same, we'd see the same resistance from the Democrat party as we see today from the Reps.

I agree that it can fairly easily be tweeked and fine tuned over the next couple years into something much better, but right now it is absolutely NOT what was sold to the American people.

Is it any less freedom than having the industry dictate whether you can have insurance?

Why is it OK then? Is taking freedom through legislation somehow Nobler then some Industry doing so? Is replacing one Overseer with another any less being controlled?

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Allow me to dissent, the only thing that was taken away is NOT having insurance, the rest stays as it was.

Allow me to dissent back...

....please tell me, where in the Constitution, is the express right of the Federal Government (or any other body of government) to mandate that an American citizen purchase something...anything? Where is that right expressed in the Constitution?

...it's not...

...This is Communism QM, not Capitalism, not even Socialism...this is out and out Dictatorial Government...and you know what? I'm not playing..the Federal Government can kiss my ass! The Supreme Court doesn't have the power to tell me I must buy something. The President doesn't...no one does...get that? No one. Not you, not my wife, not my kids, not my neighbors...no one. I can walk away from the whole bloody thing and be homeless and indigent if I want to and no one has the power to tell me I cannot do that....but...HEY>>>

That being said...what about the homeless QM...are they not also mandated to buy health insurance? And what if they can't...and of course they can't...buy health insurance....will they also have the same tax penalty levied against them as me or you? And what if they can't...and of course they can't...pay that tax penalty? What then? Will they be jailed? Will you? Will I?

Your obvious 'okay' with being told what to do, with out any kind of knee jerk, 'wait a minute here' response, tells me that you are a Statist...a Totalitarianist...and...as we call them in Texas...Communist. At least a commie sympathizer...would you just please tell me that you are a Communist? Then I won't get labeled for name calling... :yes:

Edited by joc
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No insurance and no money, so no trip to the hospital.

Would he have had the money for paying a premium? Or, would he even think it was a good idea?

The freedom that you want is merely the freedom to choose to allow most of the costs to be paid by someone else, so you can have a few bucks in your pocket now as opposed to everyone paying their fair share for the bills they will invariably incur in their lifetime.

That is not going to change. Even under Obamacare, people are not going to pay what they deserve due to good health, correct? The whole idea of Obamacare is that those who are uninsured will share the cost, with those in good health and the youth paying for the elderly and chronically ill.

True enough there will be savings in the Exchanges, as individuals will be able to get a group discount rate. But there isn't going to be any Mystical, Magically savings where people don't end up paying for the extreme emergencies of others.

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That being said...what about the homeless QM...are they not also mandated to buy health insurance? And what if they can't...and of course they can't...buy health insurance....will they also have the same tax penalty levied against them as me or you? And what if they can't...and of course they can't...pay that tax penalty? What then? Will they be jailed? Will you? Will I?

I believe technically that would be tax evasion. Yearly taxes being where the fine is supposed to be charged, right?

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Wow, you're brilliant!! Time to recap here. George W. Bush owned a a multimillion dollar baseball team, made millions in the oil industry, then, as Governor, ran one of the most prosperous states in the country, Texas and won reelection with 69% of the vote. He ran a state! Obama never ran more than a book club. He never even had a job!

Bush also flew fighter jets in the Texas ANG and actually married a beautiful woman, two things Obama was incapable of doing. He overcame an alcohol problem but Barry can't quit smoking liek he promised to and Bush never did cocaine like Barry. Word is he is still snorting.

Oh yeah, we got to see Bush's diplomas and transcripts etc. etc, yet I have never seen any of Obama's grades, papers, diplomas, people that attended school with him, nothing. Why? If he i so brilliant why not show some proof.

Back atcha! LMFAO

George W. failed at every business venture he ever tried until being elected president because of who his daddy was Keep laughing.How about W's national guard records from when he was avoiding the Viet Nam war? And now he's a war hawk. What a joke.
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You should keep up with the news, the administration has agreed with insurers that old policies can be kept and both are working on it.

Insurance companies have no obligation to reissue those policies. And if they DO reissue there will e rate increases - nice try Q.
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Insurance companies have no obligation to reissue those policies. And if they DO reissue there will e rate increases - nice try Q.

Why is it Obama's fault if insurance companies through their greed raise rates? They are free to do so after all
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George W. failed at every business venture he ever tried until being elected president because of who his daddy was Keep laughing.How about W's national guard records from when he was avoiding the Viet Nam war? And now he's a war hawk. What a joke.

It's really easy to spout off something...more of a challenge to prove said spout...so...I challenge you..

Prove that W was a failure at every business venture he engaged in. First: name those business ventures one by one...show us some financial proof of the failure of those businesses. Spread sheets? Graphs? Something? Yeah...just spouting mindless regurgitation of someone else's prior regurgitation of BS...

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One of the problems in America's health care system may be the fact that so many get their coverage through their employer in group policies. Insurance companies like this arrangement, and many don't offer anything else, because in a group approach they avoid the picking and choosing individuals engage in (those who anticipate illness go out and buy insurance but really healthy people don't). This serves to force up the price of individual health policies and puts the self-employed, the unemployed, and those who work for small businesses not offering this coverage at a huge discriminatory disadvantage.

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Insurance companies have no obligation to reissue those policies. And if they DO reissue there will e rate increases - nice try Q.

And it's only for a year. We'll be in the same shape same time next year.

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Why is it Obama's fault if insurance companies through their greed raise rates? They are free to do so after all

They are doing so because Obama's law made the policies they were providing 'illegal'. Without changing the law...the Insurance companies are not going to reinstate anyone...because they face civil lawsuits if they did down the road.

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Why is it Obama's fault if insurance companies through their greed raise rates? They are free to do so after all

It may be because his law has created a situation where there is no effective competition and underlying medical costs are going up. You can't depend on goodwill to hold prices down -- only on competitors being around and active.
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