obama makes deal with iran

[Frank Merton]

You have no ideal what you are even talking about...so just shut up...seriously...my god...are you totally brainwashed or are you just jiving me...If you are...don't...I don't like to be jived that way.

Unfortunately I don't appreciate being told to shut up, and would recommend you cool it.

I think I am a more objective observer having watched the world evolve over the last sixty or so years since I became aware of the world and have traveled almost everywhere and gone to school in several different countries, including the States.

America is much more free than it was in the fifties, for example. Gays can get married in many states and nowhere have to hide their identity. Women are far more often found in high office. Abortions are available. People don't have to go to Nevada to gamble or get a divorce. I could go on and on. Certainly people live longer, infant mortality is lower, people have a wider and less seasonal selection of food, entertainment is nowhere near as censored, etc., etc., etc.

[+joc]

Unfortunately I don't appreciate being told to shut up, and would recommend you cool it.

I think I am a more objective observer having watched the world evolve over the last sixty or so years since I became aware of the world and have traveled almost everywhere and gone to school in several different countries, including the States.

America is much more free than it was in the fifties, for example. Gays can get married in many states and nowhere have to hide their identity. Women are far more often found in high office. Abortions are available. People don't have to go to Nevada to gamble or get a divorce. I could go on and on. Certainly people live longer, infant mortality is lower, people have a wider and less seasonal selection of food, entertainment is nowhere near as censored, etc., etc., etc.

yeah..well..I have LIVED in America for over 50 years...born and raised...experiencing AMERICA for everyday of my life. In the Fifties...most people didn't lock their house doors much less their car doors. In the Fifties...kids ran all over the town they lived...no one worried about them being kidnapped and murdered. In the Fifties...our government didn't tell us what we could own or not own...what we could build or not build...what we could do or not do. In the Fifties...yeah...we were FREE in the Fifties. This isn't Freedom...but you don't really know what Freedom is Frank. Gays getting married? You are clueless...nonetheless...I apologize for telling you to shut up...that was rude...don't shut up Frank...Clue up. But you can't. You don't know and if you don't know...I don't think you can. Tell the people who were tortured and murdered under Stalin that Communism is a myth.

[Yamato]

Frank Merton: Vietnamese guy who loves to 'splain what America is to Americans on the internet. Got a good vantage point in the jungle to observe the US from. Frank knows all about prices over here too. He assures me my cost of living isn't outpacing my earnings. He soothes me with "Just trust the Fed" establishment rhetoric.

But marrying who you want is an expression of freedom. Government shouldn't be in the game of telling people who not to marry. That is just pure statist FAIL-bait. What gender I'm sexually attracted to is none of government's business. Does that even need to be said?

[Frank Merton]

Basically the only point you guys can make is that I'm Vietnamese and that somehow disqualifies me from knowing anything about the states. Sorry but don't work.

Oh one other thing, if your wages aren't keeping up with costs, that just tells me you are a loser.

Edited November 30, 2013 by Frank Merton

[Yamato]

Oh one other thing, if your wages aren't keeping up with costs, that just tells me you are a loser.

And you're a name calling insult spewing hate filled Vietnamese guy. What do I care what you think? My taxes went up 100% in one year you fool. So I'm a loser then.

You might know some things about the US but there's plenty of good opportunities for you here to just sit and listen to what actual Americans have to say about America.

[Gromdor]

Didn't you mention that you were a member of the communist party Frank? If so I am curious on how you view communism as opposed to Joc's version.

[Frank Merton]

I'm not a member of the Party: my American experiences disqualified me for that during the wars and later I worked for an American company so a Party membership would never have happened. Besides, nowadays party members keep a low profile and you generally don't know if someone is or not, although of course one can find out.

The view of Communism I see on these boards, even in the old days, is just simply a stupid caricature. Vietnam "went Communist" because the Americans supported the French trying to come back in, and the patriotic movement had no choice. It also, because of close connections throughout history, had cultural and emotional links to China, and tends to follow China in the world, with of course a Vietnamese flavor. Vietnam has utterly no interest in spreading "Communism" elsewhere and tries to stay friendly with everyone.

The "new thinking" that was promulgated about twenty years ago pretty much abandoned rigid socialism and dogmatic atheism in favor of a mixed economy and freedom for existing religions. At that time the economy began to improve and now living standards are hugely better than they had been, and Vietnam is integrating itself with SE Asia and the the world mainly through the WTA.

Where the country remains Communist is that the party is the only legal party and its members are vetted carefully -- nowadays mainly from college graduates -- and through their consensus reaching leaders are chosen with fixed (generally five year) terms and no incumbencies, to prevent a "cult of personality" as Communist countries sometimes fall into. I will refrain from going into why I think this system of government is better than that seen in most western and Asian democracies.

[Gromdor]

Thank you, that was actually very enlightening. It seems Vietnam has taken a practical approach to governing as opposed to an ideological one. I can see the advantage of decisive action in governance where you don't have to spend energy fighting your political opponents on every issue and can channel that energy into actually solving problems. I do, however, see the potential for nepotism and cronyism creeping in. Potentially resulting in something like North Korea.

So having seen both the "Old school" and "New Thinking" communism, do you think the U.S. is beginning to embrace communism? Do you feel that President Obama and the Democratic Party are manifesting communist ideals and platforms?

[Frank Merton]

I don't know what Communism is except one-party government. The Democrats seem to be trying to achieve that by making it so easy to do vote fraud in the big cities with signature voting.

I would say they lean more toward socialism than old style communism, and I think largely it is a mistake. I've been doing business in the West enough to understand the value of free markets and corporate enterprise, when regulated reasonably. The welfare state just doesn't work.

I think if I were to move to the States I would probably be a main-street type of Republican on economic matters and a far-left liberal democrat/libertarian type on social issues.

[Frank Merton]

One other thing -- while corruption and cronyism and all that are around, I would say nowhere near as bad as some of the neighboring countries and islands, at least in my experience. I see no possibility of anything like North Korea happening here. If Vietnam were to fall into something a more likely route would be like Castro, but frankly even that would beggar belief.

[RavenHawk]

You are in complete and total denial.

Certainly nothing unconstitutional. And Obama is not a socialist. in any respect. I realize you make up your own definitions.

Fundamental change to the Constitution does not bring you pause? You have no idea of the meaning of the Constitution. To you it is some old meaningless document. Obama is the most Leftist President we’ve ever had. And I have not made up my own definitions. I’m merely removing one class of excuses. You don’t like it so you create others. Even after thorough explanation you refuse to understand. This just shows how much of a lost case you are. And people here (new and old), see this.

It was not crammed down anything. It was passed the way laws are generally created. By majority vote.

It was crammed down our throats. Did you ever pay attention to these town hall meetings? The people were rejecting this legislation. The PEOPLE! Do you not understand? This is not how laws are generally passed. It was passed by mob rule, not majority. When the extremes of Democracy rear its head, is time to put a stop to it. And I know that term goes way beyond your understanding.

wrong again. The UNINSURED want it very badly - which is why they are desperately trying to sign up.

Hello? There were some 30 million uninsured, right? Do you agree? Of those 30 million, you could divide that into three groups. A third is the wealthy that don’t need it because they pay out of pocket. Another third are the youth that don’t need it and can’t afford it. Yet it is this group that is needed to pay everyone’s way? That leaves about 10 million that are the sickest that want it and need it. As I said these are the very ill. Instead of targeting their needs, we’re going to ruin our economy of 315 million to accommodate these 10 million? That is your typical Socialist math.

no. This was the fundamental issue in the 2008 and 2012 presidential elections.

This was not a fundamental issue in these elections. The fundamental issue was how the Obama machine demonized two Rinos that couldn’t turn out the base. If the issue was on Healthcare, Obama would have lost.

not unconstitutional.

Excuse me? How can you sit there and claim that those EOs are not attacking the 2nd Amendment? I guess YOU can because you are a Leftist lackey.

You're not making any sense at all.

Actually, I am making sense, if you understand history. So I guess you are admitting you do not understand history. Want do you think happens to a citizenry that cannot defend itself from its government?

in the US?!! you're seriously deranged.

You really don’t think it’ll happen? Why not? The minute you begin to think that it couldn’t happen is the minute you open the door for it to happen. But then you do not know history by your own admission. We should be learning from history to avoid such things and their causes. Obamacare is one of those. That’s Q.E.D.

You and your republican friends had that opportunity and did NOTHING

Perhaps so and they didn’t try to usurp power. They didn’t try to cram it down our throats. They have plenty of good ideas that the Socialists turned away. They wanted to target sectors and spend money wisely. They understood the dangers in the extremes of Democracy and turned away, but it appears that you do not care to understand that.

There is no national healthcare. Do you live in Canada or the UK?

And the sun doesn’t rise in the East and the sky ain’t blue on a cloudless day. If it is not national healthcare then why are we required to purchase a standard package? If it was not national healthcare then why couldn’t we keep the plans we have or to purchase anything we want including so-called substandard plans? Those that have or had coverage did not need coverage but that has been taken away. If they cannot purchase what they want, then that by definition is national healthcare.

Do you not understand that your pitch to sell Obamacare is not working? Another law suit has been brought forward that challenges Obamacare violating the 1st Amendment. And after that, there are others lining up. The next few years will see if Obama has successfully usurped and defeated the Constitution. So please tell me that Obamacare does not trash our Constitution? Please put yourself on record.

[ninjadude]

Let me 'splain you Ninja: Russia...is a place...Puten...is a person...Communism is neither place, nor person...it is a thing...it is an ideology. You don't have to be Russian to buy into the Communist Ideology. For decades...really...ever since the Revolution after the first WW war...Russia has been planting its Communist ideology within the fabric of American Society...epecially in the Universities. We don't call them Communists here...we call them other things...Leftists...uh...Liberals...Progressives...but the end result is the Ideology. It had its roots in Moscow...it still flows like a river from Moscow. And there are Communists...i.e...Leftists, Liberals, Progressives...call them what you will...people who embrace the Communist/Marxist ideology in the American Government. Obama is one and he has stuffed the government full of those who share his views and his ideology...i.e. the ideology of Russia.

The EPA...full of Obamaites who share the same ideology.

You want to be taken seriously and then you post insane stuff like this.

[ninjadude]

. In the Fifties...most people didn't lock their house doors much less their car doors. In the Fifties...kids ran all over the town they lived...no one worried about them being kidnapped and murdered. In the Fifties...our government didn't tell us what we could own or not own...what we could build or not build...what we could do or not do.

In fact "in the fifties", we locked our house and car. We did not run all over town. The government made the same kind of laws it does now. Your few of the 50s is very slanted.

[ninjadude]

Fundamental change to the Constitution does not bring you pause?

there has not been any nor is any contemplated.

It was crammed down our throats. Did you ever pay attention to these town hall meetings?

sorry laws are not passed by town hall meetings.

It was passed by mob rule, not majority.

no. it was passed by a majority vote. That does not have to be bi-partisan.

Of those 30 million, you could divide that into three groups.

No. you can't.

we're going to ruin our economy of 315 million to accommodate these 10 million?

It's not "ruining" the economy. In fact, the cost of healthcare has slowed considerably. And yes, our WHOLE society has a vested interest in the health of ALL of it's citizens.

This was not a fundamental issue in these elections.

Not seeing this is perhaps why the Republicans lost.

Excuse me? How can you sit there and claim that those EOs are not attacking the 2nd Amendment?

Sure but they are not unconstitutional.

Want do you think happens to a citizenry that cannot defend itself from its government?

Not really an issue in the US

That's Q.E.D.

That's pretty funny.

If it is not national healthcare then why are we required to purchase a standard package?

Insurance not healthcare.

If it was not national healthcare then why couldn't we keep the plans we have or to purchase anything we want including so-called substandard plans?

Most. 95% of Americans will keep their plans.

Do you not understand that your pitch to sell Obamacare is not working?

I'm not 'pitching' anything. 1.4 million people are enrolled with web site problems. There will be multiple millions signed up very soon. It is working and working well and has been working with the parts that were instituted previously.

Another law suit has been brought forward that challenges Obamacare violating the 1st Amendment. And after that, there are others lining up.

This is no end to the wackos that spring up. Birthers, conspiracy theorists, etc. I'm not really surprised. The result will be the same.

So please tell me that Obamacare does not trash our Constitution? Please put yourself on record.

IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM, DOES OBAMACARE (the ACA) "TRASH" our US CONSTITUTION. IS that clear enough?

[ninjadude]

Sorry. And none of this has anything to do with the agreement with Iran which is the subject of this thread. Which is a good start. If it works ok. Trust but verify.

Edited November 30, 2013 by ninjadude

[Frank Merton]

Sorry. And none of this has anything to do with the agreement with Iran which is the subject of this thread. Which is a good start. If it works ok. Trust but verify.

Actually the critics of the agreement have it pretty much right; the agreement is full of holes and essentially meaningless, but for one thing -- it doesn't really lift most of the sanctions and automatically puts them back plus some more if six months from now the Iranians don't agree to a more meaningful deal. I think what happened is the West gave the present Iranian President six months to consolidate his position before making him make serious concessions. In the meantime the West will know well enough whether or not real nuclear work is continuing, and can act accordingly.

[Yamato]

The view of "The West" above the jungle canopy is incredible!

[MonkeyLove]

From what I know, the U.S. has been doing this for decades, e.g., supporting dictators in Iran and Iraq, then providing weapons to Iraq to attack Iran, then trying to sell weapons to Iran, etc.

[+joc]

From what I know, the U.S. has been doing this for decades, e.g., supporting dictators in Iran and Iraq, then providing weapons to Iraq to attack Iran, then trying to sell weapons to Iran, etc.

Why single out the US? All Governments play the Arms Sales game. No one really talks about it...but it is THE game.

[coolguy]

How is this a deal when Iran can still make nukes

[Yamato]

Why single out the US? All Governments play the Arms Sales game. No one really talks about it...but it is THE game.

Because the US is the worst practitioner of arms proliferation. Nations should run away from the top of that list, not run to it and embrace it because "everyone else does it". That is a juvenile mentality.

[+joc]

Because the US is the worst practitioner of arms proliferation. Nations should run away from the top of that list, not run to it and embrace it because "everyone else does it". That is a juvenile mentality.

You missed a huge point...ALL nations are addicted to Arm Sales...they all embrace it. Forget what 'should be' for a moment and try to focus on 'what is'.

[Yamato]

You missed a huge point...ALL nations are addicted to Arm Sales...they all embrace it. Forget what 'should be' for a moment and try to focus on 'what is'.

Missed? "All nations addicted to arms sales" vs "everyone else does it". That said,

Maybe if we're all addicted, these other countries are just more responsible users....

[+joc]

Missed? "All nations addicted to arms sales" vs "everyone else does it". That said,

Maybe if we're all addicted, these other countries are just more responsible users....

I'm not saying your chart is incorrect...I am saying that when you post a chart...it is customary to also provide the LINK said chart originated from.

[Yamato]

I'm not saying your chart is incorrect...I am saying that when you post a chart...it is customary to also provide the LINK said chart originated from.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIPRI