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markdohle

Israel

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ShadowSot

I'm still not getting the 'American' part of it. Columbus discovered America in 1492...

Really?

When I said "American" I am referring to the country, not the continent. The US was part of the union f countries that established Israel. The US is part f the Western world, after all after the Revolution from Britain we did not cut cultural ties from them.

More, the US is seen as a continuation of Christendom, again, especially with the politicians that were speaking of the War in Iraq as a new crusade.

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Yamato

If Middle Eastern powers, or any foreign powers, were coming over here and getting involved in our internal affairs and forcing changes to our society or government, I would have nothing but contempt for those countries.

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ShadowSot

If Middle Eastern powers, or any foreign powers, were coming over here and getting involved in our internal affairs and forcing changes to our society or government, I would have nothing but contempt for those countries.

Yeah. I mean, there were a reason why Native Americans were treated as savages for much f American history. And much of it has to do with how they felt about Europeans coming over and taking their land after directly or indirectly causing the decimation or extinction of the Native peoples.

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joc

Really?

When I said "American" I am referring to the country, not the continent. The US was part of the union f countries that established Israel. The US is part f the Western world, after all after the Revolution from Britain we did not cut cultural ties from them.

More, the US is seen as a continuation of Christendom, again, especially with the politicians that were speaking of the War in Iraq as a new crusade.

I think I'm getting your point... Here is the way history sees it. The Muslims were slaughtering Catholic Pilgrims in the Holy Land. The Catholic Church created the Knights of the Temple of Solomon to fight the Muslims. The Knights Templar became so powerful and so wealthy that the Catholic Church itself felt threatened by them. The KT were so wealthy and powerful that the King of France was indebted to them far more than he could ever repay. He conspired with the Catholic Church and accused the leaders of heresy and crimes against the cross. The two leaders were burned at the stake. The KT actually brought into existence the Banking System that we use today.

After the KT was dissolved...the other leaders fled into hiding...they have controlled the world ever since. The World is controlled by the same Banking System that the Knights Templar created. It is still run by their descendants. There is your ties to America and the Crusades...the same people who ran the crusades are running America...and Great Britain...and Europe and Russia...and China. It's a game of chess and as long as you watch the pieces moving around on the board you will be mesmerized by it. I'm not watching. I know the game. I know the outcome. Checkmate. You lose. I lose. We all lose. That's it. Muslim, Christian, Jew, Atheist...we all lose.

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ShadowSot

Here is the way history sees it.

Very much your version of history.

The Muslims were slaughtering Catholic Pilgrims in the Holy Land.

Actually things were fairly peaceful between Christians and Muslims inside the Holy Land at the time. It was tribes on the frontier lands that attacked travelers. The Papacy at the time used this and propoganda to strike out and try to retake the Holy Land from the Muslims following the East/West split between the Churches.

The KT actually brought into existence the Banking System that we use today.

While the rest is basically correct, the modern banking system is not the same or similar to what was used by the Knights Templar.

After the KT was dissolved...the other leaders fled into hiding...they have controlled the world ever since.

No, they joined the Knights Hospitalier, except for those that stayed public but simply renamed themselves in Spain. Forgot what they called themselves now. They came forward after the church apologised for the handling of the Templar affair a few years back.

The rest is well, conspiracy nutjobbery. The banking system insituted by the KT was of a different fashion than insituted later. The KT were mostly absorbed by the Knights Hospitalier.

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Yamato
The KT were mostly absorbed by the Knights Hospitalier.

That's fascinating, but what evidence is there?

Edited by Yamato

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Space Commander Travis

:w00t:

...that actually comes from a Die Hard movie...Kill 'em all, Let God sort 'em out...at least it was on a Die Hard video game I remember from years ago...

"Kill them all, God will know his own" - Cistercian abbot Arnaud Amaury during the Massacre at Béziers,1209.
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Space Commander Travis

I'm still not getting the 'American' part of it. Columbus discovered America in 1492...

Well, what he discovered was a few islands in the Caribbean which he bumbled around for a bit. Personally I think the Vikings probably have the best claim. Although we may be wandering off topic now.

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third_eye

Or, in glorious Latin:

Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.

De Montfort demanded that the leaders of Beziers turn over the town’s Cathar heretics to him. They refused. The Crusaders attacked.

According to accounts written decades later, as the attack began, a soldier asked Amalric how they would be able to tell which Beziers townspeople were Catholics and which were Cathars.

Amalric supposedly answered (in French): “Kill them all. God will recognize his own.”

Some sources give the alleged quote as “Kill them all, for the Lord knows his own” or as “Kill them all. The Lord knows his own.”

It eventually came to be most commonly paraphrased as “Kill them all and let God sort them out.”

It’s questionable whether Almaric actually said anything like those words. But there’s no question that they reflect what happened that day.

De Montfort’s army killed virtually every man, woman and child in the town — estimated to be as many as 20,000 people — and burned Beziers to the ground

July%25252022%252520-%252520Kill%252520them%252520all%252520patch%2525205%25255B11%25255D.png?imgmax=800

  • This day in quotes link

: : : : : : : : : This comes from a perfectly genuine mediaeval anecdote. In 1209, during the "Albigensian Crusade" against the Cathar heresy in Southern France, the forces of Orthodox Catholicism had been besieging the city of Beziers, defended by the Cathar heretics, for some time. Finally they breached the walls of the city and prepared to storm it. The commander of the crusade, Simon de Montfort, Earl of Leicester, pointed out that not everybody in the city was a heretic, some of them wer good Catholics, so how should they treat the inhabitants when they captured the city? A monk who was actually present at the siege recorded the answer of the Papal Legate to the Crusaders, Arnaud-Amaury, the Abbot of Citeaux, as "Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet." ("Kill them all. God will know his own." ) So the Crusaders followed his advice and killed everybody they could find in Beziers.

~ Getting God involved by doing their dirty work is what this is ....

~edit - reformatting pasted test

Edited by third_eye

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ShadowSot

That's fascinating, but what evidence is there?

Pope Clement V was responsible for the dissolution of the Templars, after doing so he turned over much of their property to the Hospitaliers, and most of the knights went with them. Those that didn't were either ones charged by the church or they ended up retired. This is a matter of church record, you can view the Papal bulls online.

There'd been several moves previous to their dissolution to merge the two organizations but neither particularly wanted to, this sort of forced the issue.

Those that were put to trial were abslved soon after, though the order was not reinstituted.

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third_eye

Pope Clement V was responsible for the dissolution of the Templars, after doing so he turned over much of their property to the Hospitaliers, and most of the knights went with them. Those that didn't were either ones charged by the church or they ended up retired. This is a matter of church record, you can view the Papal bulls online.

There'd been several moves previous to their dissolution to merge the two organizations but neither particularly wanted to, this sort of forced the issue.

Those that were put to trial were abslved soon after, though the order was not reinstituted.

Executed SS ... many were 'executed ' ...

Indeed many Templars did confess under torture but recounted their confessions during their trials. However recounting their confessions gave the Nogaret’s lawyers the opportunity to denounce them as relapsed heretics with no hope of coming back to the truth. Many of these “relapsed heretics” were burned at the stake. The few Templars trained as lawyers were among the first to be executed. The Vienna Council finally began its hearing in 1312 to decide the fate of the Order. This council was set to vote on the guilt or innocence of the Order and if it should be disbanded. With Philip’s army camped outside the city gates the council narrowly voted to repress the Order. “On March 22, 1312 Pope Clement V issued the papal bull, Vox in Excelso, suppressing the Order”.[vii] The Order of the Knights Templar was dead.

With a few words, the pope had done what no Muslim army could do in two centuries: destroyed the Templars. Philip, who for good measure had surrounded Vienne with his army, ended up with nothing. Clement gave all the assets of the order to the Hospitallers, though the transfer took many years. The pope delayed judging de Molay until 1314, and then he sent two cardinals in his place. By then the Grand Master was 70 and had sat in a Paris dungeon for six-and-a-half years. He died an agonizing death but with his honor intact.

  • catholic answers link

The Templars were charged with Satanism and many other "unnatural" acts and practices. Many of the charges may have been complete fabrications, but some could have been distortions of secret rites of the Templars. There were torture-encouraged confessions in the style of the Spanish Inquisition, and many were found guilty for refusing to "confess".

Many of the Templars in France were terminally punished, á la Joan of Arc, including the Grand Master, Jacques de Molay [graphic, left], who was burnt at the stake in 1314, near Paris' Notre Dame Cathedral.

beyond dot fr link

~

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ShadowSot

Executed SS ... many were 'executed ' ...

Fair point, shuld have said those left afterwards.

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joc

Of course we don't use the same banking system as the Templars...the ideas have certainly evolved over the centuries. The point...whether you agree with my version or not...is that Money, Power, and The Church...that is The Vatican....rule the world...secretly. It isn't America...it is Rome. Oh yeah, don't forget my friend...every single one of the Apostles of Peter were executed by the Romans...who destroyed as well the Temple of Solomon. And where is the Vatican to this day? Rome.

I smell conspiracy written all over the history of the founding of Israel...and it isn't poppycock conspiracy either...it is all about those three things...Money, Power, and The Church. With America being a 'christian' nation...full of Worshippers of Rome...your point is taken.

Edited by joc
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third_eye

Of course we don't use the same banking system as the Templars...the ideas have certainly evolved over the centuries. The point...whether you agree with my version or not...is that Money, Power, and The Church...that is The Vatican....rule the world...secretly. It isn't America...it is Rome. Oh yeah, don't forget my friend...every single one of the Apostles of Peter were executed by the Romans...who destroyed as well the Temple of Solomon. And where is the Vatican to this day? Rome.

I smell conspiracy written all over the history of the founding of Israel...and it isn't poppycock conspiracy either...it is all about those three things...Money, Power, and The Church. With America being a 'christian' nation...full of Worshippers of Rome...your point is taken.

Follow the money trail ...

Giving is central to most religions, a principle of faith. Americans donate $295 billion a year to charity, with just under a third of it - $97 billion - to religious organizations.

and that's just the US of A ... now find the rest of the world ...

~

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Kowalski

Of course we don't use the same banking system as the Templars...the ideas have certainly evolved over the centuries. The point...whether you agree with my version or not...is that Money, Power, and The Church...that is The Vatican....rule the world...secretly. It isn't America...it is Rome. Oh yeah, don't forget my friend...every single one of the Apostles of Peter were executed by the Romans...who destroyed as well the Temple of Solomon. And where is the Vatican to this day? Rome.

I smell conspiracy written all over the history of the founding of Israel...and it isn't poppycock conspiracy either...it is all about those three things...Money, Power, and The Church. With America being a 'christian' nation...full of Worshippers of Rome...your point is taken.

You might find this interesting. I sure did!

3 'City States' Rule the World

Link:

3 City States that control the whole world, and their rolls:

City of London - FINANCE: Receives taxes from their subjects (slaves) in Canada and the United States. They design and control our financial and banking systems.

Vatican City - RELIGION: The Pope wants to merge all the religions into one, which is absolute nonsense. The Pope broke off from the truth (confusingly referred to as The 'Eastern Church' or 'Eastern Orthodox Church' or 'Orthodox Church' or 'Orthodox') about 1000 years ago.

Washington DC - MILITARY: Death camps and stacks of black plastic coffins that can hold six to ten bodies each, are piled high in a long train-like fashion, as far as the eye can see, in the United States, today.

These three are sovereign, corporate entities that are not part of the countries they are located in. They have their own laws, and identities, as indicated by their respective flags

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FLOMBIE

Don't tell me you actually believe that.

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Space Commander Travis

You might find this interesting. I sure did!

3 'City States' Rule the World

Link:

Do they clarify how the City of London receives taxes from the slaves in America? I thought that had been abolished a while back.

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FLOMBIE

Do they clarify how the City of London receives taxes from the slaves in America? I thought that had been abolished a while back.

Do they clarify why the Orthodox Church is the 'truth'?

Do they clarify that those 'coffins' are actually burial vaults, and that there are no 'death camps' (I assume it is referring about the States.)?

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and then

A keynote research paper showing that Middle Eastern Jews and Palestinians are genetically almost identical has been pulled from a leading journal.

Journal axes gene research on Jews and Palestinians

The Times recently carried this unusual report on an Israeli Jew (Tsvi Misinai, a retired computer expert) who's hoping to prove that Palestinians are descended from Jews. Apparently, he thinks that proving this will help to stop the bloodshed. His idea is that modern Jews are descended from emigration in the first few centuries of the Christian era. The Jews who stayed put in Palestine converted to Islam, and became Palestinian Arabs. There's hope that genetic tests might be able to prove this.

Well, there is good news and bad news on that score.

The shared genetic heritage of Jews and Palestinians

Well if one believes the biblical account this information should come as no surprise. They all sprang from the same father after all. A more interesting question is - if the majority of the Jews of the diasporas retained their special identity and customs while being scattered throughout the world, then why did Jews of Palestine feel the need to convert to Islam?

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Yamato

Pope Clement V was responsible for the dissolution of the Templars, after doing so he turned over much of their property to the Hospitaliers, and most of the knights went with them. Those that didn't were either ones charged by the church or they ended up retired. This is a matter of church record, you can view the Papal bulls online.

There'd been several moves previous to their dissolution to merge the two organizations but neither particularly wanted to, this sort of forced the issue.

Those that were put to trial were abslved soon after, though the order was not reinstituted.

So the mystery that History Channel painted up for us to wonder about was based on more Dan Brown fiction....I've been misled.

Interestingly and related to this discussion, according to Wiki the Templars had the desire for their own State, which is cited as one of the reasons for their fall.

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ShadowSot

So the mystery that History Channel painted up for us to wonder about was based on more Dan Brown fiction....I've been misled.

Interestingly and related to this discussion, according to Wiki the Templars had the desire for their own State, which is cited as one of the reasons for their fall.

Yeah, after the Hospitaliers and Prussian knights had their piece they wanted some.
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third_eye

The Templars were getting disillusioned with the Heads of the Faith and their worldly ambitions .... not to mention their 'excesses' for worldly desires.

~

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Yamato

Well the Templars got a really bad deal then after all that Holy escort service they put out. They tried to carve a place for themselves out of the Kingdom of Jerusalem too, but Legolas and Qui-Gon Jinn would have nothing of it.

Yea, Christians used to take the Holy Land serious back in the day. Now every time the locals wreck another ancient burial site to build another shopping mall, hotel complex or accompanying parking deck, we all scratch our heads.

Though some still have a connection to the place, for a creative assortment of reasons (every one of them valid apparently). Granted, anyone else for a Templar Homeland? Don't be anti-Masonic now

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third_eye

The early histories states that many of the higher initiated Templars were very tolerant of other religious practices ... which contributed one of the reasons for their downfall I guess ....

~

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