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markdohle

Israel

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President Wearer of Hats

Only because of a fictitious book... not everybody believes in that BS

All the people involved in this fracas do though.

The Israelis are Jews, and the Palestinians are Muslims - both believe (or at least have doctrinal foundations that involve) that "BS".

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and then

All the people involved in this fracas do though.

The Israelis are Jews, and the Palestinians are Muslims - both believe (or at least have doctrinal foundations that involve) that "BS".

And even though the many deny that book they still have to deal with the impacts that come from what the believers do. When that region goes off like a bomb it will disturb the entire world. And those calling the predictions BS will never admit openly that the "coincidences" of those predictions being seen in the news headlines is eerie, they WILL take note of it to themselves :)
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Yamato

So you think another wrong, the destruction of Israel, will make that wrong better Yam?

Of course not, but I don't accept the supposition of your baseless claim, because Israel not only isn't living under occupation conditions that Palestinians are, they're not even being threatened.

I could ask you the exact same thing based on what you've said here. I won't do that, because I actually understand what you say. What did I say, pray tell, to ever give you the idea that I want the "destruction" of anything?

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Yamato

Imagine if the Palestinians had the Israelis under siege, bulldozing, bombing, cutting off trade and controlling mobility of Israelis, and someone comes here and merely suggests as I have that Palestinians don't do that anymore, and I respond with claiming that they're trying to destroy Palestine.

That's the brainpower we're apparently dealing with here...

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Yamato

Israel has a right to exist.

It IS surrounded by people who want it destroyed.

Do we as people of good conscience allow millions of innocent people to die because it's too much hard work?

They're like the fifth most powerful military in the world. They're only 10x stronger than the "people who want it destroyed" even if the entire region ganged up on it. What the hell do we need to keep dumping MY tax dollars into one of the richest countries at the blind ignorance of desperate people who are dying every day in other places like Africa and Asia.

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President Wearer of Hats

Of course not, but I don't accept the supposition of your baseless claim, because Israel not only isn't living under occupation conditions that Palestinians are, they're not even being threatened.

I could ask you the exact same thing based on what you've said here. I won't do that, because I actually understand what you say. What did I say, pray tell, to ever give you the idea that I want the "destruction" of anything?

Sorry, confused you with someone else.

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thyra

Radical Muslims also want to destroy us as well.

Peace

mark

it is interesting you end your message saying 'peace' :) I am 'scared of' spree killers for example. Radical people. Scared because it is such a deep problem. This has been going for sometime and I dont even live in US. But I could never thought of raging a war against those people saying that they are trying to destroy us. They have their unsolved issues that are causing their radical acts but I dont really think their purpose is to destroy us. They are desperately searching a solution to their problems. Thats why most of them shoot themselves in the end or act in such a way ensuring that they are get shot and killed. this is just sad and nothing else.

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markdohle

What I think everyone is forgetting, is that if these guys, http://en.wikipedia...._United_Nations (these guys to be more precise http://en.wikipedia....ee_on_Palestine) , had plopped a conflicting culture (Jews) in your back yard (Palestine), and then that conflicting culture kept taking more of your backyard each year, you would be upset as well.

None of this is new, the Palestinians didn't like it then, just as they don't like it now. Why does the Western world expect them to change their opinion?

I don't expect much to change, that is why we need to support Israel. It is an impossible situation I believe.

Peace

Mark

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markdohle

it is interesting you end your message saying 'peace' :) I am 'scared of' spree killers for example. Radical people. Scared because it is such a deep problem. This has been going for sometime and I dont even live in US. But I could never thought of raging a war against those people saying that they are trying to destroy us. They have their unsolved issues that are causing their radical acts but I dont really think their purpose is to destroy us. They are desperately searching a solution to their problems. Thats why most of them shoot themselves in the end or act in such a way ensuring that they are get shot and killed. this is just sad and nothing else.

Thank you for you take on things, I liked it. Radical Muslims, not the majority I believe, but enough, the estimate is 10%, which is millions, do want the destruction the non-Muslim world. Some of their complaints about us orspot on, we are somewhat decadent.

However to make us enemies because of that is a bit over the top..

Peace

Mark

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markdohle

Only because of a fictitious book... not everybody believes in that BS

I believe ;-).

Peace

mark

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markdohle

There's been enough children in Palestine so traumatized that some even lose the ability to speak. They deserve to shine their own lights; they deserve a voice. Until then they deserve to be defended. Palestinians deserve basic human rights, like the right to free trade, so they don't have to use their carnation harvests as animal feed because they're not allowed to export them across their own borders.

I am not against those who live in Palestine, my hope is one day something will be worked out. The fact is though, is that there is not middle ground for some Muslims or Jews for that matter.

Peace

Mark

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green_dude777

I certainly understand the feelings of anger and betrayal they must feel at losing their land. They were furious that they were told to live beside people they have an institutional hatred for but it's been 70 years or so and they doggedly hang on to the dream that they can simply remove this people. It's irrational and it WILL lead to a global war in time. If it were any other two groups it could have been settled long since. Doesn't it strike you the least bit strange that the whole planet seems riveted on what is going on there?

I don't believe you do understand those feelings, unless you're Native American. I know you're not Native American, because they wouldn't support a group taking away another's land. Have you ever looked at the maps of when the UN partitioned the land, and the spread of the Israeli's land since that date?

You only support Israel because of your radical, doomsday christian beliefs. If you didn't hold those, I doubt you would be supporting the side you do.

All the people involved in this fracas do though.

The Israelis are Jews, and the Palestinians are Muslims - both believe (or at least have doctrinal foundations that involve) that "BS".

Yeah, but each one believes a different story of BS, that's why they're at each other's throat. If no one believed any of the BS, I doubt the situation would be what it is.

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green_dude777

I don't expect much to change, that is why we need to support Israel. It is an impossible situation I believe.

Peace

Mark

It's an impossible situation, so we should support the one side that has all the power, money, and weapons?

I believe ;-).

Peace

mark

This is the only reason you support Israel. Which is weird, because they're the ones that deny JC was the messiah, and they don't even accept him as a prophet. At least the Muslims see JC as a prophet. If I remember correctly, wasn't it the heads of the Jewish temples at the time that accused JC, then brought him before a Roman governor, then elected to have him scourged and crucified, all the while releasing a murderer instead?

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President Wearer of Hats

Yeah, but each one believes a different story of BS, that's why they're at each other's throat. If no one believed any of the BS, I doubt the situation would be what it is.

I don't know, I think they'd find some reason to hate each other.

Probably resorting to that old chestnut of "my family was here X number of years ago, this is my land!" etc etc etc.

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Yamato

I am not against those who live in Palestine, my hope is one day something will be worked out. The fact is though, is that there is not middle ground for some Muslims or Jews for that matter.

Peace

Mark

I am not against those who live in Palestine, my hope is one day something will be worked out. The fact is though, is that there is not middle ground for some Muslims or Jews for that matter.

Peace

Mark

According to Islam, Jesus didn't even die, he just rose straight to Heaven without even dying. Who else ever pulled that off? He may not be the "Son" of God (I was raised a Christian yet I'm not convinced by any of these familial/genealogical connections myself) but Jesus is a divine messenger of God in Islam.

Jews are still waiting for their Messiah today, and technically are forbidden to have their own state until the coming of their Messiah. But why subscribe to Judaism when you can subscribe to Zionism? "Have everything now!" (i.e. don't listen to those old books telling you to wait for someone who never seems to come).

You're always a gentleman, Mark. Peace brother

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green_dude777

I don't know, I think they'd find some reason to hate each other.

Probably resorting to that old chestnut of "my family was here X number of years ago, this is my land!" etc etc etc.

Well, except for the fact that if no one believed any of this BS, the western world wouldn't have planted the Jews in Israel if there would be a problem. The reason they did, despite knowing there would be problems, is because of the Zionist movement to bring about their make believe doomsday.

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Yamato

The Jewish Homeland, if there was to be such a thing, should have been carved out of the hindquarters of Nazi Germany, not exported to the Middle East where the ENTIRE REGION opposed it.

Who the hell do we think we are, jamming our preferences into the lives and livelihoods of others with deadly force? If we're going to refer to the differences between major religions here, Jesus didn't teach me to do that - he taught me not to.

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Yamato

As if: Yeah, let's get the UN to come in on behalf of Native American people and get with the Lakota and other tribes and uproot about 50 million Americans from their homes to usher in this Native American Homeland. And the moment these people open their mouths to utter a complaint about what they're putting up with, I'll show up to start slandering them as "Anti Native American", "anti Lakota" et al. The fascimile of Zionist behavior applied to the American Indians.

The classical Zionist counter to any criticism of Israeli policy is to parrot the lines about the "creation of Israel" or the "destruction of Israel." Let's forget those two bookends and look at the middle. It was created, it exists, I've never suggested I want or believe otherwise. I don't blame Israel for creating itself, for existing, or for continuing to exist forever. I blame it for not allowing Palestinians to return to their homes after the war and creating this deplorable preventable man-made disaster that punishes millions of innocents. By its own actions, Israel became in violation of the UN Resolution that created it, and it's remained in violation ever since.

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supervike

They're like the fifth most powerful military in the world. They're only 10x stronger than the "people who want it destroyed" even if the entire region ganged up on it. What the hell do we need to keep dumping MY tax dollars into one of the richest countries at the blind ignorance of desperate people who are dying every day in other places like Africa and Asia.

That is one of my biggest beefs with the whole issue. Israel can defend themselves. We have our own issues that money could help fix.

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President Wearer of Hats

According to Islam, Jesus didn't even die, he just rose straight to Heaven without even dying. Who else ever pulled that off?

Prophet Elijah (or was it Ezekel, one of the two).

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joc

That is one of my biggest beefs with the whole issue. Israel can defend themselves. We have our own issues that money could help fix.

Money cannot fix any of our issues...our issues are a result mostly of 'throwing money' at problems instead of actually seeking real solutions. This isn't about Israel defending themselves...they will. This is about avoiding WWIII. Can we avoid WWIII? If so how?

Let me isolate the exact problem for both of you: If Iran gets nuclear weapons...nuclear weapons will be used against either the West or Israel or both...not necessarily by Iran. If they get that technology...they will 'share' that tecnology and their weapons with Al Queda and Hasbalah.

If we leave Israel in a position of isolation where they think only they can save themselves...their actions might actually start WWIII.

We should have taken out Iran when we took out Sadaam...but Bush failed his own Doctrine.

Edited by joc
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Yamato

We should have taken out Iran when we took out Sadaam...but Bush failed his own Doctrine.

So you're a super-neocon that makes George W. Bush look dovish. That's what I thought.

Let me isolate the exact problem for both of you: If Iran gets nuclear weapons...nuclear weapons will be used against either the West or Israel or both...not necessarily by Iran. If they get that technology...they will 'share' that tecnology and their weapons with Al Queda and Hasbalah.
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joc

So you're a super-neocon that makes George W. Bush look dovish. That's what I thought.

I want peace in the Middle East Yamato. There will be no peace as long as Iran is a terrorist state. You can say I drink the koolaid of the neocons all you want...makes no difference to me what you think. The truth ...and history...are on my side.

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Bavarian Raven

I don't believe you do understand those feelings, unless you're Native American.

^

I'm a Saxon of Transylvania. Not a drop of native blood in me. Yet I know what it's like to have your land stolen from you. This happened to my family (and thousands other) thanks to the communists. You don't hear me wanting/threatening for it back. Life goes on and we adapt as best as we can. Cheers.

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Yamato

I want peace in the Middle East Yamato. There will be no peace as long as Iran is a terrorist state. You can say I drink the koolaid of the neocons all you want...makes no difference to me what you think. The truth ...and history...are on my side.

Again, you're just buying what the bureau is selling you. So they're on some bureaucrat's list as a "terror state". That label allows a lot of other extracurricular activities in the Middle East we shouldn't be spending our money on. For God's sake man, there are more important things to do here inside of our own country.

I am livid about paying the opportunity cost of foreign policies like George W. Bush's. and even worse, Obama's, and even worse than that - yours.

If you want to dump money into Iraq and Iran and Israel and wherever else in the Middle East for whatever it is you and the bureau's little pet projects are, use your Paypal account and send them your own money. What's wrong with freedom? Why does Washington DC need to solve your problems? If you feel so strongly about this, move to Israel and pay your taxes to Israel. Start a non-profit seeking donations to Israel. Visit Israel as a tourist. Send them your own money. I don't have a problem with you doing any of that. I have a problem with your statist mentality imposing on me and everyone else where the money must be spent.

Violent nonsense started over oil, religions, ethnic groups or bureaucratic real estate deals ain't it. People should be free. That weighs more than all of these manufactured problems combined. Freedom is more important than any of your rhetorical and fantastical reasons to war monger about.

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