green_dude777 Posted November 29, 2013 #76 Share Posted November 29, 2013 The United States AND France - both on October 23rd of '83. A total of over 300 dead. Iran's leaders are wise like a serpent in that they use stealth to kill their enemies. They are cowards. And they succeed because of foolish people in the west who carry their water for them. Did you just imply that using stealth to kill an enemy is an act of cowardice? How did we get Bin Laden? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supervike Posted November 29, 2013 #77 Share Posted November 29, 2013 I want peace in the Middle East Yamato. There will be no peace as long as Iran is a terrorist state. You can say I drink the koolaid of the neocons all you want...makes no difference to me what you think. The truth ...and history...are on my side. Peace in the Middle East does not end and begin with funnelling obscene amounts of money to Israel. If Iran suddenly became a pacifist state tommorow, one can guarantee Israel will have a new boogeyman to warn the world about. I'm not saying we shouldn't strive for peace there, but how, is throwing more money at the problem (your words) helping? Couldn't we do these same things without mortgaging our own finanical future? Israel is flush with cash, weapons, and the backing of all the Western World. They will be fine without our money. We can give them all the moral support, and if it came to war, all the defensive support we can muster....but lets stop funding them. I'd much rather see our money used to bolster Mexico's horrendous economy, or help fund the Obamacare mess. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted November 29, 2013 #78 Share Posted November 29, 2013 Peace in the Middle East does not end and begin with funnelling obscene amounts of money to Israel. If Iran suddenly became a pacifist state tommorow, one can guarantee Israel will have a new boogeyman to warn the world about. I'm not saying we shouldn't strive for peace there, but how, is throwing more money at the problem (your words) helping? Couldn't we do these same things without mortgaging our own finanical future? Israel is flush with cash, weapons, and the backing of all the Western World. They will be fine without our money. We can give them all the moral support, and if it came to war, all the defensive support we can muster....but lets stop funding them. I'd much rather see our money used to bolster Mexico's horrendous economy, or help fund the Obamacare mess. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/17/world/middleeast/17israel.html?_r=0Sixth paragraph. 26.3 % of the aid we give they can spend as they like. The rest is earmarked for US arms purchases. If you want to complain then I agree you have that right. But why not do it to the Arms dealers who are receiving corporate welfare? That means approx 3/4 of that 3 billion per annum stays in the US economy. Someday we WILL turn away from Israel - and the consequences are going to be very real and very quick to be felt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green_dude777 Posted November 29, 2013 #79 Share Posted November 29, 2013 http://www.nytimes.c...srael.html?_r=0 Sixth paragraph. 26.3 % of the aid we give they can spend as they like. The rest is earmarked for US arms purchases. If you want to complain then I agree you have that right. But why not do it to the Arms dealers who are receiving corporate welfare? That means approx 3/4 of that 3 billion per annum stays in the US economy. Someday we WILL turn away from Israel - and the consequences are going to be very real and very quick to be felt. Oh, look, And Then dodging another question that makes his radical, Zionist beliefs look dim. (used above quote for a time stamp) Post #76 Posted Today, 10:06 AM and then, on 28 November 2013 - 10:48 PM, said: The United States AND France - both on October 23rd of '83. A total of over 300 dead. Iran's leaders are wise like a serpent in that they use stealth to kill their enemies. They are cowards. And they succeed because of foolish people in the west who carry their water for them. Did you just imply that using stealth to kill an enemy is an act of cowardice? How did we get Bin Laden? Sometimes crickets can be deafening. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted November 29, 2013 #80 Share Posted November 29, 2013 Oh, look, And Then dodging another question that makes his radical, Zionist beliefs look dim. (used above quote for a time stamp) Post #76 Posted Today, 10:06 AM and then, on 28 November 2013 - 10:48 PM, said: The United States AND France - both on October 23rd of '83. A total of over 300 dead. Iran's leaders are wise like a serpent in that they use stealth to kill their enemies. They are cowards. And they succeed because of foolish people in the west who carry their water for them. Did you just imply that using stealth to kill an enemy is an act of cowardice? How did we get Bin Laden? Sometimes crickets can be deafening. Taking two different quotes out of context and implying anything is not just wrong...it's....wrong. Do you have a point other than playing gottcha? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green_dude777 Posted November 29, 2013 #81 Share Posted November 29, 2013 Taking two different quotes out of context and implying anything is not just wrong...it's....wrong. Do you have a point other than playing gottcha? No quote was taken out of context. Look at post #76. Yeah, the point of my original post was to show his hypocrisy and bias. It's obvious it succeeded, because I'm sure he doesn't think the U.S. used an act of cowardice to execute Bin Laden. The post you are quoting is in response to And Then's comments about dodging questions. The post's only point is to force him to answer, or continue lurking as he is and letting people know he is dodging a question. If you agree with everything he has stated, I'll direct the question to yourself if you like. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted November 29, 2013 #82 Share Posted November 29, 2013 In other words you want to play gottcha. Apparently you have some beef about having someone speak negatively of Iran. Why is that? Are you Pro-Iran and Against/Israel? If so why? If not...then what's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green_dude777 Posted November 29, 2013 #83 Share Posted November 29, 2013 In other words you want to play gottcha. Apparently you have some beef about having someone speak negatively of Iran. Why is that? Are you Pro-Iran and Against/Israel? If so why? If not...then what's your point? Whatever you want to label it, I described my intentions in full. Apparently, you don't follow conversations very well, as my 'beef' is with hypocrites, not those who have criticisms of Iran. I even said it in my previous post, "Yeah, the point of my original post was to show his hypocrisy and bias." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supervike Posted November 30, 2013 #84 Share Posted November 30, 2013 http://www.nytimes.c...srael.html?_r=0 Sixth paragraph. 26.3 % of the aid we give they can spend as they like. The rest is earmarked for US arms purchases. If you want to complain then I agree you have that right. But why not do it to the Arms dealers who are receiving corporate welfare? That means approx 3/4 of that 3 billion per annum stays in the US economy. Someday we WILL turn away from Israel - and the consequences are going to be very real and very quick to be felt. I'd happily complain about the corporate welfare of the remaining dollars if this thread were about that. I don't think we should turn away form Israel, but the fact that we have to pay to be thier ally just doesn't sit well with me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted November 30, 2013 #85 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Whatever you want to label it, I described my intentions in full. Apparently, you don't follow conversations very well, as my 'beef' is with hypocrites, not those who have criticisms of Iran. I even said it in my previous post, "Yeah, the point of my original post was to show his hypocrisy and bias." Why are you therefore intent on pointing out his hypocrisy and lies. Are you guilty of hypocrisy and lies as well? Then answer the damn question...are you Pro Iranian and Against Israel..or...what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odas Posted November 30, 2013 #86 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Why are you therefore intent on pointing out his hypocrisy and lies. Are you guilty of hypocrisy and lies as well? Then answer the damn question...are you Pro Iranian and Against Israel..or...what? I do not think that people who are against more and endless funding for Israel are against Israel or pro Iran. I believe Israel is a nation and I support their right to defend themselfs. But ever since I can remember there are two things that never seems to go away. Hungry children in Africa and gimmi gimmi gimmi money for the security of Israel. Well, in case of Africa, start working people and stop making children if you can not afford feeding them, and in case of Israel, well stop making enemies, stop steeling land, stop keep asking for MY money I honestly work for. I need it too. The canadian and US children need it too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted November 30, 2013 #87 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Did you just imply that using stealth to kill an enemy is an act of cowardice? How did we get Bin Laden? I implied nothing - I STATED IT. The disconnect is that you EQUATE the killing of people in a pub or a Seder meal with the killing of Bin Laden. As to the national ambitions and tactics used by the Iranian regime they are quite similar to what the US or any other nation does. THAT WAS THE POINT. My answer was to Odas in post #71: odas, on 28 November 2013 - 01:57 PM, said: How many countries has Iran attacked in the last 100 years? Please name two. He seemed to be continuing the ridiculous rhetoric that since Iran has not invaded or declared war on anyone in 200 years that they have been peaceful - it is utter rubbish. And as to your snide barbs about me avoiding answering - I do that in my own time and lately have (thank God) actually had a few other things I've been doing beside answering questions on UM. You seem to fancy yourself some sort of epic debater, if you are then good on ya. I just state my points of view and couldn't give a care how you feel about them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted November 30, 2013 #88 Share Posted November 30, 2013 I do not think that people who are against more and endless funding for Israel are against Israel or pro Iran. I believe Israel is a nation and I support their right to defend themselfs. But ever since I can remember there are two things that never seems to go away. Hungry children in Africa and gimmi gimmi gimmi money for the security of Israel. Well, in case of Africa, start working people and stop making children if you can not afford feeding them, and in case of Israel, well stop making enemies, stop steeling land, stop keep asking for MY money I honestly work for. I need it too. The canadian and US children need it too. The vast majority of aid to Israel is Military. We give more aid to Detroit than we do to Israel...and look at Detroit. (not including military aid) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odas Posted November 30, 2013 #89 Share Posted November 30, 2013 The vast majority of aid to Israel is Military. We give more aid to Detroit than we do to Israel...and look at Detroit. (not including military aid) Hellooooooooo. Anybody home? Detroit is in the USA. They need help. OUR people in Detroit need help. Whites, blacks, hispanics, jews, muslims, christians, atheists, OUR people in OUR USA in OUR North America. Lemi see. I as an immigrant want to see Canadian and US children happy, educated, with good healthcare, good future and someone like you who is here since generations likes the children of a foreign country more? What is wrong with this picture? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted November 30, 2013 #90 Share Posted November 30, 2013 The whole violent issue is one of religion not oil. The Muslims were slaughtering Christians long before oil was ever discovered. It was the Knights of Solomon, the Knights Templar, created by the Catholic Church that began to pave a way to peace...through strength...in the Middle East. It was also the Knights Templar that created the banking system that we are all slaves to. None the less...the current 20th/21st century MiddleEastern problems have to do with hatred of Israel and the West by Islamists in Iran and the surrounding countries. It is a religious war. Not for you maybe...but it is for them...and when the President of Iran threatens to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth...that is a threat to be taken seriously. When did Iran start their nuclear program? The nuclear program of Iran was launched in the 1950s with the help of the United States as part of the Atoms for Peace program.[1] The participation of the United States and Western European governments in Iran's nuclear program continued until the 1979 Iranian Revolution that toppled the Shah of Iran.[2] After the 1979 revolution, a clandestine nuclear weapons research program was disbanded by Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini (1902–1989), who considered such weapons forbidden under Muslim ethics and jurisprudence.[3] Iran has signed treaties repudiating the possession of weapons of mass destruction including the Biological Weapons Convention,[4] the Chemical Weapons Convention,[5] and the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT).[6] Link Oh dont get me wrong joc, Im not saying Iran is some innocent victom. Far from it. Im just saying the reasons we want to go to war with them have little to do with Israel. An Iranian attack on Israel, I believe, would be a very unwise thing to do. Israel is capable of destroying the entire country within one hour of an attack. According to Israel, they have nuclear subs that can hit any target on the planet. The west wants war with Iran to put in the last pieces of their economic monopoly. Im all for helping to protect Israel. I fully believe that he who blesses Israel will be blessed. Im just against a pre-emptive war of aggression. Im fine with telling Iran under no uncertain terms that if they attack Israel, then they will no longer exist. The thing is, the people in our government are hell bent on a one world economic system which they fully control. Iran is one of just a few pieces left inorder to make that a reality. I think Iran is no where near as big a threat to Israel as our propaganda machines would have us believe. But they, like everything else they do, need a boogyman to accomplish their agenda. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted November 30, 2013 #91 Share Posted November 30, 2013 (edited) Money cannot fix any of our issues...our issues are a result mostly of 'throwing money' at problems instead of actually seeking real solutions. This isn't about Israel defending themselves...they will. This is about avoiding WWIII. Can we avoid WWIII? If so how? Let me isolate the exact problem for both of you: If Iran gets nuclear weapons...nuclear weapons will be used against either the West or Israel or both...not necessarily by Iran. If they get that technology...they will 'share' that tecnology and their weapons with Al Queda and Hasbalah. If we leave Israel in a position of isolation where they think only they can save themselves...their actions might actually start WWIII. We should have taken out Iran when we took out Sadaam...but Bush failed his own Doctrine. This IMHO isnt very likely. I think in light of what Iran has watched us do in the middle east over the last 20 years, its natural they would want a deterent against an invasion. They have watched 3 countries fall because of direct aggression from the USA. Iran has always hated Israel. They have always spoke aggressively tward Israel. But we havent seen them this actively trying to get nuclear weapons till we watched Afgan, Iraq, and Lybia fall. Then watched us supply and fund AlCIAda in Syria and Lybia. My wife cant get on a plane without giving up basic fundamental freedoms, cause they think they are gonna find Osama Bin Laden in her underwear. Yet here we are showing our crooked corupted hand that AlCIAda is not our enemy at all. They have more then proven they cant be trusted. I see no reason to think their stance on Iran should be trusted anymore then any number of situations where they have shown to be striaght lier's. Edited November 30, 2013 by preacherman76 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted December 1, 2013 #92 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Taking two different quotes out of context and implying anything is not just wrong...it's....wrong. Do you have a point other than playing gottcha? Exposing the hypocrisy was his point. "It's okay when Israel does it", bloody hell. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted December 1, 2013 #93 Share Posted December 1, 2013 The vast majority of aid to Israel is Military. We give more aid to Detroit than we do to Israel...and look at Detroit. (not including military aid) Stop defending welfare to foreigners, conservative. Stop defending welfare to foreigners, American. This is exactly why "conservatives" are so detestable politically. It's hypocrisy par excellence. They don't eat their own cooking as soon as the White House wants to participate in the internal affairs of foreigners or go thousands of miles away to play with the big toys in the sandbox. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted December 1, 2013 #94 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Stop defending welfare to foreigners, conservative. Stop defending welfare to foreigners, American. This is exactly why "conservatives" are so detestable politically. It's hypocrisy par excellence. They don't eat their own cooking as soon as the White House wants to participate in the internal affairs of foreigners or go thousands of miles away to play with the big toys in the sandbox. dude, we own the freaking sandbox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted December 1, 2013 #95 Share Posted December 1, 2013 dude, we own the freaking sandbox You Socialist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted December 1, 2013 #96 Share Posted December 1, 2013 You Socialist. We own that too 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted December 1, 2013 #97 Share Posted December 1, 2013 now imagine all this outside the fish bowl that is the US of A ~ I sometimes wonder about people who pulls triggers and punch little red buttons that kills multitudes and then pray for 'peace' at the end of the day ~ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted December 1, 2013 #98 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Riddle: What do you call a Conservative, American, Socialist? Answer: Why, joc of course... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted December 1, 2013 #99 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Riddle: What do you call a Conservative, American, Socialist? Answer: Why, joc of course... You're making excuses for government ownership and you don't even know it, do you? Why should I treat your ideology any differently than any other garden variety socialist's? And in your case, it's not even American, it's on the other side of the planet, which is a reason to treat yours even worse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted December 1, 2013 #100 Share Posted December 1, 2013 You're making excuses for government ownership and you don't even know it, do you? Why should I treat your ideology any differently than any other garden variety socialist's? And in your case, it's not even American, it's on the other side of the planet, which is a reason to treat yours even worse. I don't really see reality in the same light you do. You sound very paranoid to me. I don't really care what your ideology is...I might...if I knew what it was...but I don't even think you know...after all...everything I need to know about your politics is wrapped up in a song...so...rage on my friend...rage on...your opinion is just as valid as anyone elses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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