Israel

[Wendigo Wangs]

The christian religion has had more than a few bad apples. Do any of you ever wonder why Mexico and South America speak Spanish and Portuguese instead of say, Mayan or Incan? What about the KKK?

The problem with all these threads, and western thought in general, is that when a radical christian does something terrible, we always point out it's just a small minority. When a radical muslim does something terrible, it's always pointed out that it is the majority, or more vaguely, "that a large part of Islam is radicalized".

You really need to learn a new adjective. You use the term "radical" so often that it really has no meaning coming from you.

[MiskatonicGrad]

The christian religion has had more than a few bad apples. Do any of you ever wonder why Mexico and South America speak Spanish and Portuguese instead of say, Mayan or Incan? What about the KKK?

The problem with all these threads, and western thought in general, is that when a radical christian does something terrible, we always point out it's just a small minority. When a radical muslim does something terrible, it's always pointed out that it is the majority, or more vaguely, "that a large part of Islam is radicalized".

I wasn't aware the Spanish had a convert or die mentality when they came over to America learn something new... KKK ? were they hoping to make the blacks white? the comparison is a little lost on me. this was a discussion on religious differences not national. If you really want to go there you could have brought up the catholic church and it's atrocities during the inquisitions or the church of England prosecution of the Anabaptists which were not racially or nationally motivated.

[Yamato]

Let me make it clear one more time. Where are all the news stories of Christians or Jews...killing indiscriminant innocent Muslims, in public places, in horrific ways and screaming Praise Be To The One and Only True Living God of Israel...or JESUS SAVES?

The Muslims...not all of them...but the ones we are talking about...do exactly that. And I don't want to convert them to anything except sanity.

First of all, I wasn't talking to you. You're replying to a reply for someone else.

Second, you've just identified a gaping hole in the media news coverage. You don't see the people the US govt kills. Because it's not sanctioned by religion, that's somehow a reason not to oppose it.

Your opinions on major religions make for interesting discussion, but nobody's opinions about religion are acceptable to set policy over. Ancient superstitions from the Middle East are one of the lousiest excuses for government spending I've ever heard, so again, your true inner liberal is oozing out.

One really has an entitlement complex to govt money to be so insistent about spending taxpayer dollars over this religious nonsense. Congress Shall Write No Law, capish? Put down the giant credit card and step away from the baby carriage.

[Yamato]

I wasn't aware the Spanish had a convert or die mentality when they came over to America learn something new... KKK ? were they hoping to make the blacks white? the comparison is a little lost on me. this was a discussion on religious differences not national. If you really want to go there you could have brought up the catholic church and it's atrocities during the inquisitions or the church of England prosecution of the Anabaptists which were not racially or nationally motivated.

The discussion is Israel bro; a nation not a religion. The Conquistadors, the KKK, the Catholic Church, there are many examples we can draw comparisons with. I think the point green_dude is making is that none of this was valid reason to punish all Spaniards, all whites, or all Catholics. You name the group, the principle doesn't change.

[SHaYap]

~snip

Only a fool would look at the world today and still believe that Islam is a religion of peace.

~snip

They do not only believe ... they know ... that is the difference between you and your faith and them and their faith ... they also know that peace do not mean they are incapacitated from defending themselves ...

~

List of apologies made by Pope John Paul II

Pope John Paul II made many apologies. During his long reign as Pope, he apologized to Jews, Galileo, women, people convicted by the Inquisition, Muslims killed by the Crusaders and almost everyone who had allegedly suffered at the hands of the Catholic Church over the years.^[1] Even before he became the Pope, he was a prominent editor and supporter of initiatives like the Letter of Reconciliation of the Polish Bishops to the German Bishops from 1965. As Pope, he officially made public apologies for over 100 of these supposed wrongdoings, including:^[2][3][4][5]

• The conquest of Mesoamerica by Spain in the name of the Church^[2][3][4][5]
  

• The legal process on the Italian scientist and philosopher Galileo Galilei, himself a devout Catholic, around 1633 (31 October 1992).^[2][3][4][5]
  

• Catholics' involvement with the African slave trade (9 August 1993).^[2][3][4][5]
  

• The Church's role in burnings at the stake and the religious wars that followed the Protestant Reformation (May 1995, in the Czech Republic).^[2][3][4][5]
  

• The injustices committed against women, the violation of women's rights and for the historical denigration of women (10 July 1995, in a letter to "every woman").^[2][3][4][5]
  

• The inactivity and silence of many Catholics during the Holocaust (16 March 1998)^[2][3][4][5]
  

• For the execution of Jan Hus in 1415 (18 December 1999 in Prague). When John Paul II visited Prague in 1990s, he requested experts in this matter "to define with greater clarity the position held by Jan Hus among the Church's reformers, and acknowledged that "independently of the theological convictions he defended, Hus cannot be denied integrity in his personal life and commitment to the nation's moral education." It was another step in building a bridge between Catholics and Protestants.^[2][3][4][5]
  

• For the sins of Catholics throughout the ages for violating "the rights of ethnic groups and peoples, and [for showing] contempt for their cultures and religious traditions". (12 March 2000, during a public Mass of Pardons).^[2][3][4][5]
  

• For the actions of the Crusader attack on Constantinople in 1204, though not for the Crusades themselves, as is often claimed. (4 May 2001, to the Patriarch of Constantinople).^[2][3][4][5]
  

On 20 November 2001, from a laptop in the Vatican, Pope John Paul II sent his first e-mail apologising for the Catholic sex abuse cases, the Church-backed "Stolen Generations" of Aboriginal children in Australia, and to China for the behaviour of Catholic missionaries in colonial times.^[6]

An excuse is worse and more terrible than a lie, for an excuse is a lie guarded.

— Pope John Paul II

^[7]

• wiki link
  

MAybe you'd like to sit the Pope down and give him your side of the story ....

~

[Yamato]

An excuse is worse and more terrible than a lie, for an excuse is a lie guarded.

— Pope John Paul II

+1

[Yamato]

Mark is always a gentleman and this is his thread. I won't be happy to see his thread get hijacked and if/as I've played a role in that, I'm done playing with the barbed wire.

I'm going to step it up and be gentlemanly from here on out. Hope others especially joc and 'and then' will agree with that sentiment. Let's try to peace out, brothers and sisters.

[+joc]

Mark is always a gentleman and this is his thread. I won't be happy to see his thread get hijacked and if/as I've played a role in that, I'm done playing with the barbed wire.

I'm going to step it up and be gentlemanly from here on out. Hope others especially joc and 'and then' will agree with that sentiment. Let's try to peace out, brothers and sisters.

Amen.

[+joc]

The discussion is Israel bro; a nation not a religion. The Conquistadors, the KKK, the Catholic Church, there are many examples we can draw comparisons with. I think the point green_dude is making is that none of this was valid reason to punish all Spaniards, all whites, or all Catholics. You name the group, the principle doesn't change.

There should be a way we can discuss this issue, without, as Marks friend told him, Go to Hell, as a response.

I think you are wrong Yamato...and I'll tell you where and why. When you say, name the group, the principle doesn't change...that's where. Why is because, in this situation...All Palestinians...there are always exceptions...but the vast majority of Palestinians HATE Israel. And there is a reason why they hate Israel. They hate Israel because they are taught to hate Israel from birth. Most of us teach our kids tolerance for other races, other religions, other ideologies. Palestinians don't teach their children any such thing. They teach them to hate Israel. It is so much like the Hatfields and McCoys. I think most of them probably don't even know why this feud exists....but it is perpetuated generationally. We are talking about a country made up of people who were targeted by Hitler for extermenation. That fact cannot be overlooked and sweeping it under the rug is a mistake. Israel just wants to be left alone. But they won't be because it IS about religion. The real truth is that the Old Testament refers to the Jews as Gods Chosen People. It is that for which they are hated.

Actually, the Hafield and McCoys is pretty much what this is all about. It began with Esau and Jacob. Out of Jacob came Israel. Out of Esau came Islam. The problems are as deep and ancient as that. So the whole Israel did this...or...the Palestinians did that...is just nothing new. Eye for Eye Tooth for Tooth. Enter Jesus...who said, rather than eye for eye and tooth for tooth...love your enemies, pray for those who persecute you...etc.

So we have a trinity of religion that are all players in this game. The Old Testament, The New Testament and the Quran. Is there a solution? I certainly don't see one. I would think that if the Palestinians are unforgiving and the Israelis are unforgiving...what else is left...neither are advocates of the teachings of Christ. Perhaps that is why the book of Revelations portrays Armageddon the way it does. Because this isn't anything new...it was an old, old feud when John wrote Revelations.

[acidhead]

Joc, the people responsible for the Jewish holocaucst are Europeans. If all they wanted was peace than stealing land and bombing women and children inthe ME is a illogical way of expressing it. This behaviour creates resentment and results in a lasting anger and yes, hatred.

Edited December 4, 2013 by acidhead

[+joc]

Joc, the people responsible for the Jewish holocaust are Europeans. If all they wanted was peace than stealing land and bombing women and children is a illogical way of expressing it. This behaviour creates resentment and results in a lasting anger and yes, hatred.

The Arabs hated the Jews long before the Holocaust acidhead.

[acidhead]

That is not true. I do not believe that.

[+joc]

That is not true. I do not believe that.

Okay, you don't have to. It's historical fact. Have you ever read the Old Testament?

[acidhead]

Okay, you don't have to. It's historical fact. Have you ever read the Old Testament?

The historical fact is Israel was created immediately following the jewish holocaust. I don't need to read the old testament to understand that stealing private property through the use of force is a horrible way to intruduce an individual to the neighborhood. Its wrong in my book. They have created their own demise.

[+and-then]

The historical fact is Israel was created immediately following the jewish holocaust. I don't need to read the old testament to understand that stealing private property through the use of force is a horrible way to intruduce an individual to the neighborhood. Its wrong in my book. They have created their own demise.

Joc's point is valid and if you think the hatred between these groups essential began when the modern state of Israel was founded in '48 you really should do a little reading. I can sympathize with the Palestinians up to a point. They were living on land they considered their own and were removed forcibly in some cases. But their refusal to allow a Jewish state in their midst - of ANY size - was what wrote THEIR doom, AH. They lose this conflict and lose it spectacularly. I do not expect anyone who doesn't believe in scripture to accept that but if you live long enough and you see it happen maybe you will remember it was told to you once upon a time by this "freak".

[acidhead]

Nice.

[+joc]

The historical fact is Israel was created immediately following the jewish holocaust. I don't need to read the old testament to understand that stealing private property through the use of force is a horrible way to intruduce an individual to the neighborhood. Its wrong in my book. They have created their own demise.

Maybe so. Maybe Rome created Rome's own demise by doing the same thing during the Jewish-Roman wars...how far back do you want to go? Apparently not any further than 1947. You know acidhead...this is a complicated issue...it always has been...and no doubt the holocaust played a huge role in the development of the Zionist movement. Regardless...history is what it is. But now, in this 21st century. It is too late to go back. And many see the only way to make things right is to annihalate Israel. So...when the entire Middle East is a Sea of Glass...who will we blame? Israel, Palestinian? Iran? The Arabs are no more or less unforgiving than the Israelis. It was there land to begin with. God gave it to them after they wandered endlessly in the desert for 40 years...so the OT story goes. But if your history line begins and ends with 1947...you won't ever see any of that.

[acidhead]

Well its obvious we see the situation differently.

[buckskin scout]

The history of Palestinians vs Israel is an old one....going way back to the early days of Yassir Arafat.

You can think whatever you want. I stand by Israel. The Palestinians are the one's who started all this mess by blowing themselves up in market places all over Israel. For years Yamato...it was a daily occurrence. But you never mention that. You never mention the innocents blown up and mangled in attacks for decades by the Palestinians. You never mention that they blow themselves up to kill Israelis. Do you know why they do that Yamato? Because of their twisted belief that Allah wants them to. What does a twisted belief system have to do with Israel? It has nothing to do with anything Israel has done...only that Israel exists. That is Israels crime in the eyes of the Arabs. They Exist.

So you go ahead and call me this and that and whatever. I don't care. You have no clue what Israel even believes or stands for.

Two children are playing together in the street ...one is Israeli..the other Palestinian. In an instant...they are both legless and armless pieces of meat...because a Palestinian blew them up in the name of Allah. That is about as sick as it gets. And who are you crying for? The Palestinian baby or the Israeli baby? I cry for them both Yamato.

Germany 1940 & Israel 2013 -- An interesting comparision, but be warned graphic pictures of dead holocaust victims and dead Palestinian children (due to Israeli indiscriminate shelling)!

The similarities of these images is astounding but true!

[buckskin scout]

There should be a way we can discuss this issue, without, as Marks friend told him, Go to Hell, as a response.

I think you are wrong Yamato...and I'll tell you where and why. When you say, name the group, the principle doesn't change...that's where. Why is because, in this situation...All Palestinians...there are always exceptions...but the vast majority of Palestinians HATE Israel. And there is a reason why they hate Israel. They hate Israel because they are taught to hate Israel from birth. Most of us teach our kids tolerance for other races, other religions, other ideologies. Palestinians don't teach their children any such thing. They teach them to hate Israel. It is so much like the Hatfields and McCoys. I think most of them probably don't even know why this feud exists....but it is perpetuated generationally. We are talking about a country made up of people who were targeted by Hitler for extermenation. That fact cannot be overlooked and sweeping it under the rug is a mistake. Israel just wants to be left alone. But they won't be because it IS about religion. The real truth is that the Old Testament refers to the Jews as Gods Chosen People. It is that for which they are hated.

Actually, the Hafield and McCoys is pretty much what this is all about. It began with Esau and Jacob. Out of Jacob came Israel. Out of Esau came Islam. The problems are as deep and ancient as that. So the whole Israel did this...or...the Palestinians did that...is just nothing new. Eye for Eye Tooth for Tooth. Enter Jesus...who said, rather than eye for eye and tooth for tooth...love your enemies, pray for those who persecute you...etc.

So we have a trinity of religion that are all players in this game. The Old Testament, The New Testament and the Quran. Is there a solution? I certainly don't see one. I would think that if the Palestinians are unforgiving and the Israelis are unforgiving...what else is left...neither are advocates of the teachings of Christ. Perhaps that is why the book of Revelations portrays Armageddon the way it does. Because this isn't anything new...it was an old, old feud when John wrote Revelations.

WHAT A BUNCH OF BALONEY!

Arab and Jewish children used to play with each other, their mothers would watch each other's kids. You know what really started the conflict, labor and land. And then it was statehood. Palestinians were the majority and owned over 90% of the land when the UN drew up its Partition Plan... giving the minority immigrant Jews 56% of the land. And it was the best most fertile land.

Check out this table drawn up by the British Mandate:

[buckskin scout]

Okay, you don't have to. It's historical fact. Have you ever read the Old Testament?

Curious, are you Christian or Jewish?

And why are citing the Old Testament, those were a different time, a different people, and different nations? Those people 2,000-4,000 years ago would not recognize any of these people today.

[MiskatonicGrad]

The historical fact is Israel was created immediately following the jewish holocaust. I don't need to read the old testament to understand that stealing private property through the use of force is a horrible way to intruduce an individual to the neighborhood. Its wrong in my book. They have created their own demise.

you do realize the land you live in didn't always belong to you? if you want to argue who owned what first the old testament (which islam somewhat believes) shows that Israel the people owned it long before Islam was a religion.

there were jews living in the region before 1948 they all didn't just show up and kick the Palestinians out.

You should really get out and visit Israel maybe you would appreciate them more just make sure you visit the Palestinian controlled areas also. don't want you to get a one-sided view on things.

[SHaYap]

The Arabs hated the Jews long before the Holocaust acidhead.

not true ... Jerusalem was a town of peaceful co existence ... always was ... till the Franks came to town ...

PROTEST JEWS HONORING NAZIS STEALING FROM HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS

November 21, 2013 -

ALLIANZ IS A GERMAN INSURANCE COMPANY THAT INSURED THE DEATH CAMPS AND OTHER NAZI FACILITIES AND BUSINESSES DURING WORLD WAR II. ITS CHAIRMAN KURT SCHMITT WAS AN EARLY NAZI PARTY MEMBER AND SERVED AS HITLER’S MINISTER OF ECONOMICS. AT THE SAME TIME IT WAS INSURING DEATH CAMPS, ALLIANZ WAS SELLING LIFE INSURANCE TO JEWISH FAMILIES THROUGHOUT EUROPE – POLICIES IT DISHONORED AFTER THE HOLOCAUST AND CONTINUES TO DISHONOR TODAY. IN ALL, ALLIANZ OWES OVER $2.5 BILLION TO HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS AND VICTIMS’ HEIRS BUT REFUSES TO PAY EVEN TO THIS DAY.

.....

NOW ALLIANZ IS TRYING TO LAUNDER ITS REPUTATION BY BUYING OFF THIS JEWISH FOUNDATION FOR THE RIGHTEOUS, THE ORGANIZATION HONORING ALLIANZ ON DECEMBER 3, SO THE COMPANY CAN SAY IT HAS THE BLESSING OF A RESPECTABLE SOUNDING JEWISH GROUP WILLING TO OVERLOOK ITS DISASTROUS NAZI POLITICS, WHILE IT IGNORES THE SURVIVORS UNTIL THEY ARE ALL DEAD.

• Defend Jerusalem link (all caps nature of the text is inherent to the site)
  

such a tangled web that is weaved ?

The Crusader Period

(1095-1291)

For 200 years, Palestine was dominated by the Crusaders, who, following an appeal by Pope Urban II, came from Europe to recover the Holy Land from the infidels. In July 1099, after a five-week siege, the knights of the First Crusade and their rabble army captured Jerusalem, massacring most of the city's non-Christian inhabitants. Barricaded in their synagogues, the Jews defended their quarter, only to be burnt to death or sold into slavery. During the next few decades, the Crusaders extended their power over the rest of the country, through treaties and agreements, but mostly by bloody military victories. The Latin Kingdom of the Crusaders was that of a conquering minority confined mainly to fortified cities and castles.

When the Crusaders opened up transportation routes from Europe, pilgrimages to the Holy Land became popular and, at the same time, increasing numbers of Jews sought to return to their homeland. Documents of the period indicate that 300 rabbis from France and England arrived in a group, with some settling in Acro (Akko), others in Jerusalem.

After the overthrow of the Crusaders by a Muslim army under Saladin (1187), the Jews were again accorded a certain measure of freedom, including the right to live in Jerusalem. Although the Crusaders regained a foothold in the country after Saladin's death (1193), their presence was limited to a network of fortified castles. Crusader authority in the Land ended after a final defeat (1291) by the Mamluks, a Muslim military class which had come to power in Egypt.

• Jewish Virtual Library link
  

Jewish and Muslim soldiers fought together to defend Jerusalem from Crusaders!

Read more at http://www.omg-facts.com/History/Jewish-And-Muslim-Soldiers-Fought-Togeth/57385#Gpplsfc07g2OzEBG.99

Jewish and Muslim soldiers fought together to defend Jerusalem from Crusaders!

the Jewish people and the Muslim people were once allies, when teaming up against what they viewed as a greater evil - the Crusaders. The Crusaders were Christians that initially came from England, and their goal was to fight their way through Europe and into the Middle East in order to spread Christianity in one of the most violent militaristic campaigns ever led. The Crusaders wanted to rid the world of Islam, because they viewed it as sacrilegious.

The alliance was short lived, because the Crusaders quickly breached the city after a siege that had lasted around two weeks. It is said that while the Muslim soldiers fought to their death, the Jewish soldiers were trapped in a synagogue by Crusaders, and the building was quickly burned to the ground

• OMG facts links
  

Massacre of Jerusalem

Jews fought side-by-side with Muslim soldiers to defend Jerusalem against the Crusaders.^[4] Saint Louis University Professor Thomas Madden, author of A Concise History of the Crusades, claims the "Jewish Defenders" of the city knew the rules of warfare and retreated to their synagogue to "prepare for death" since the Crusaders had breached the outer walls.^[5] According to the Muslim chronicle of Ibn al-Qalanisi, "The Jews assembled in their synagogue, and the Franks burned it over their heads."^[6] One modern-day source even claims the Crusaders "[circled] the screaming, flame-tortured humanity singing 'Christ We Adore Thee!' with their Crusader crosses held high."^[7] However, a contemporary Jewish communication does not corroborate the report that Jews were actually inside of the Synagogue when it was set fire.^[8] This letter was discovered among the Cairo Geniza collection in 1975 by historian Shelomo Dov Goitein.^[9] Historians believe that it was written just two weeks after the siege, making it "the earliest account on the conquest in any language."^[9] However, all sources agree that a synagogue was indeed burned during the siege.

• wiki link
  

....

In 638, when Jerusalem was surrendered to the Muslims, Umar (the first caliph), requested to be led to the Temple Mount, an acknowledgment of Islam’s acceptance of the Hebraic prophetic tradition. After reaching the Temple Mount, the caliph found himself disgusted on seeing that Christians had heaped garbage in the sacred enclosure to express their contempt for the Judaic faith. Umar, out of respect for the Jews, ordered the area to be cleansed, an act which also prepared the sacred Jewish site for Muslim worship. Umar fulfilled the hopes of Jews by refusing the church’s request to continue the ban against Jewish residence and inviting them back into the city. In the seventh century, as Jerusalem came into Muslim hands, the ban on Jewish residence was lifted. After approximately 500 years of being Judenrein, Jerusalem again included a Jewish community. Jews long banned from living in Jerusalem by Christian rulers, were permitted to return, live, and worship in the city of Solomon and David.(4)

Five centuries of peaceful coexistence elapsed before political events led to centuries of so-called holy wars. However, Fatimid Caliph al-Hakim reintroduced old persecution habits, including the wholesale destruction of two thousand churches throughout the empire, most notoriously the church of the Holy Sepulchre in 1009 (picture to left). By the eleventh century, European Christendom’s response to Islam took two forms: the struggle to reconquer Spain (1000-1492) and Italy and Sicily (1061), and the undertaking of another series of Christian holy wars - the Crusades (1095-1453). In 1099, the Crusaders stormed Jerusalem and established Sovereignty over the Holy Land. When Jerusalem was conquered by the Crusaders, virtually all its Muslim and Jewish populations were butchered. During this period, residence of non-Christians was banned, and thus the city underwent a drastic demographic change. From a provincial town Jerusalem became the capital of the independent Latin Kingdom and one of the most important centers of Christendom. With minor changes, the intensive monumental building and the street grid gave the city the form preserved today.(5)

• American Edu link
  

~

[+joc]

joc, on 03 December 2013 - 11:15 PM, said:

The Arabs hated the Jews long before the Holocaust acidhead.

not true ... Jerusalem was a town of peaceful co existence ... always was ... till the Franks came to town ...

Oh...I didn't know you were a Wikipedia Scholar...that makes you a PHD...Practically History Deficient

The problem isn't really Wikipedia...the problem is pulling facts...and then making up conclusions...

Since you are a Wiki Expert..read on:

There had been, for some long but uncertain period, a significant number of Jews in Arabia. Historians claim that very large numbers of Jews – as high as 80,000 – arrived after the destruction of the First Temple, to join others already long established in places such as the oasis of Khaybar as well as the trading colonies in Medina and Mecca (where they even had their own cemetery). Another theory posits that these Jews were refugees from Byzantine persecutions. Regardless, Arab historians mention some 20 Jewish tribes, including two tribes of Kohanim.[3]

Aside from the regions of Israel and Judea Jews have lived in the Middle East at least since the Babylonian Captivity (597 BCE), about 2,600 years ago.

After the expansion of Islam into the Middle East from the Arabian Peninsula, Jews, along with Christians and Zoroastrians, typically had the legal status of dhimmi.[1] As such, they were accorded certain rights and generally not persecuted for their religious beliefs, unlike many other parts of Medieval Europe.[2]

The Constitution of Medina, written shortly after hijra, addressed some points regarding the civil and religious situation for the Jewish communities living within the city from an Islamic perspective. For example, the constitution stated that the Jews "will profess their religion, and the Muslims theirs", and they "shall be responsible for their expenditure, and the Muslims for theirs". After the Battle of Badr, the Jewish tribe of Banu Qaynuqa breached treaties and agreements with Muhammad. Muhammad regarded this as casus belli and besieged the Banu Qaynuqa. Upon surrender the tribe was expelled.[4] The following year saw the expulsion of the second tribe, the Banu Nadir, accused of planning to kill the prophet Muhammad. The third major Jewish tribe in Medina, Banu Qurayza was eliminated after allegedly betraying the Muslims during the Battle of the Trench. Although there were many Jewish tribes present in Medina who continued to live in Medina peacefully after these events such as Banu Awf, Banu Harith, Banu Jusham Banu Alfageer, Banu Najjar Banu Sa'ida, and Banu Shutayba.[5][6]

In year 20 of the Muslim era, or the year 641 AD, Muhammad's successor the Caliph 'Umar decreed that Jews and Christians should be removed from all but the southern and eastern fringes of Arabia—a decree based on the (sometimes disputed) uttering of the Prophet: "Let there not be two religions in Arabia". The two populations in question were the Jews of the Khaybar oasis in the north and the Christians of Najran.[7] [8] Only the Red Sea port of Jedda was permitted as a "religious quarantine area" and continued to have a small complement of Jewish merchants.

Jews Under Muslim Rule

so you see......I am correct afterall....YOU however are totally incorrect because you think you can just pull up a website and become a history expert. pfffft

[SHaYap]

Oh...I didn't know you were a Wikipedia Scholar...that makes you a PHD...Practically History Deficient

The problem isn't really Wikipedia...the problem is pulling facts...and then making up conclusions...

Since you are a Wiki Expert..read on:

There had been, for some long but uncertain period, a significant number of Jews in Arabia. Historians claim that very large numbers of Jews – as high as 80,000 – arrived after the destruction of the First Temple, to join others already long established in places such as the oasis of Khaybar as well as the trading colonies in Medina and Mecca (where they even had their own cemetery). Another theory posits that these Jews were refugees from Byzantine persecutions. Regardless, Arab historians mention some 20 Jewish tribes, including two tribes of Kohanim.[3]

Aside from the regions of Israel and Judea Jews have lived in the Middle East at least since the Babylonian Captivity (597 BCE), about 2,600 years ago.

After the expansion of Islam into the Middle East from the Arabian Peninsula, Jews, along with Christians and Zoroastrians, typically had the legal status of dhimmi.[1] As such, they were accorded certain rights and generally not persecuted for their religious beliefs, unlike many other parts of Medieval Europe.[2]

The Constitution of Medina, written shortly after hijra, addressed some points regarding the civil and religious situation for the Jewish communities living within the city from an Islamic perspective. For example, the constitution stated that the Jews "will profess their religion, and the Muslims theirs", and they "shall be responsible for their expenditure, and the Muslims for theirs". After the Battle of Badr, the Jewish tribe of Banu Qaynuqa breached treaties and agreements with Muhammad. Muhammad regarded this as casus belli and besieged the Banu Qaynuqa. Upon surrender the tribe was expelled.[4] The following year saw the expulsion of the second tribe, the Banu Nadir, accused of planning to kill the prophet Muhammad. The third major Jewish tribe in Medina, Banu Qurayza was eliminated after allegedly betraying the Muslims during the Battle of the Trench. Although there were many Jewish tribes present in Medina who continued to live in Medina peacefully after these events such as Banu Awf, Banu Harith, Banu Jusham Banu Alfageer, Banu Najjar Banu Sa'ida, and Banu Shutayba.[5][6]

In year 20 of the Muslim era, or the year 641 AD, Muhammad's successor the Caliph 'Umar decreed that Jews and Christians should be removed from all but the southern and eastern fringes of Arabia—a decree based on the (sometimes disputed) uttering of the Prophet: "Let there not be two religions in Arabia". The two populations in question were the Jews of the Khaybar oasis in the north and the Christians of Najran.[7] [8] Only the Red Sea port of Jedda was permitted as a "religious quarantine area" and continued to have a small complement of Jewish merchants.

Jews Under Muslim Rule

so you see......I am correct afterall....YOU however are totally incorrect because you think you can just pull up a website and become a history expert. pfffft

Correct in your selective context my man ...

On the reasons for the attack, Scottish historian William Montgomery Watt notes the presence in Khaybar of the Banu Nadir, who were inciting hostilities among with neighboring Arab tribes against the Islamic community in Medina. Italian orientalist Laura Veccia Vaglieri, while giving full credence to Watt's view, claims other motives might have included the prestige the engagement would confer upon Muhammad among his followers, as well the booty which could be used to supplement future campaigns.^[5][6]

• Battle of Khaybar wiki link
  

expert ? I made no claims as such ... do you ?

Look ... the thing is ... you don't care whatever it is that is going there because you deem it 'justifiable' that is the only thing that we disagree on ... historically speaking you can find ... letter for letter ... source for source ... site for site of supporting and contradicting facts and records of what makes this the quagmire of political and religious conflicts for the last thousand years or so ... sometimes even in a very same paragraph of the records ... that just makes no sense at all.

Fact of the matter is the Zionist policies is unjust ... just as the apartheid policies are unjust, regardless of sentiment or beliefs.

~