Aid For Americans vs Aid for Israelis

[buckskin scout]

Aid For Americans Vs. Aid For Israelis

Monday, November 25, 2013

In the past few weeks the House Republicans introduced legislation to increase aid to Israel by half a billion dollars. Israel is the top foreign recipient of U.S. aid. This increase is on top of the $3.1 billion already provided to a country smaller than Rhode Island. Economists estimate that if the U.S. cut off aid to Israel, their economy would crash. Israel is a welfare nation. I ask, where is the personal responsibility of the Israelis, and how does their addiction to welfare fit into the Republican plan of "self reliance?"

http://www.chattanoogan.com/2013/11/25/264300/Aid-For-Americans-Vs.-Aid-For-Israelis.aspx

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Well this is seven whole truckloads of wrong.

[buckskin scout]

Indeed. I don't think there is any confirmable number on the total aid Israel receives from the US and international aid from European countries. Probably 7-10 billion per a population of 6 million!

[media=]

[/media] Edited November 28, 2013 by GoSC

[+and-then]

It is a comment of the reality of the world situation. Such a bomb probably will go off at some point. If it does there will be people who will say Israel did it no doubt. Fools talk all the time - doesn't make them correct. As for the 3 billion - out of 17 Trillion - it seems like a worthy investment to help stabilize a region we rely heavily on. We waste much more on much less worthy causes. I suspect that your fantasy of tossing our allies to their enemies will come sooner than later - in fact Obama is well on his way. When it happens I suspect worrying about Israel's plans and schemes will seem the least of our problems.

[Dark_Grey]

If you're going to provide aid to a country in need, you need to provide aid to other countries in need otherwise you're playing favorites.

..and when you play favorites, the questions are going to start flying: I hope the US has answers.

[Dark_Grey]

By the way, I find this whole business of dumping ridiculous amounts of money into Israel to be almost insulting. It's a small country with less of a population than some cities and yet how many world superpowers are supporting it? I don't buy the "official" reasons for even a second. I want to know what we (the first world nations,) are gaining from pledging all this financial and military support.

I'm not an anti-semite (I have some Jewish heritage,) nor do I want to see Israel gone. That's not what this is about. I just want to know why, during a world-wide recession, my tax dollars are being funneled over there. A few million for relief efforts? Sure that's a good idea. But when we start talking about money in the billions PLUS whatever they recieve from other countries, PLUS their nuclear arms cache, how can anyone feel sorry for them? They brought a tank to a knife-fight and we gave them the keys.

[buckskin scout]

It is a comment of the reality of the world situation. Such a bomb probably will go off at some point. If it does there will be people who will say Israel did it no doubt. Fools talk all the time - doesn't make them correct. As for the 3 billion - out of 17 Trillion - it seems like a worthy investment to help stabilize a region we rely heavily on. We waste much more on much less worthy causes. I suspect that your fantasy of tossing our allies to their enemies will come sooner than later - in fact Obama is well on his way. When it happens I suspect worrying about Israel's plans and schemes will seem the least of our problems.

But Israel is responsible for these enemies through AIPAC lobby and Israel interfering and manipulating US foreign policies in the region. D'oh!

[+and-then]

By the way, I find this whole business of dumping ridiculous amounts of money into Israel to be almost insulting. It's a small country with less of a population than some cities and yet how many world superpowers are supporting it? I don't buy the "official" reasons for even a second. I want to know what we (the first world nations,) are gaining from pledging all this financial and military support.

I'm not an anti-semite (I have some Jewish heritage,) nor do I want to see Israel gone. That's not what this is about. I just want to know why, during a world-wide recession, my tax dollars are being funneled over there. A few million for relief efforts? Sure that's a good idea. But when we start talking about money in the billions PLUS whatever they recieve from other countries, PLUS their nuclear arms cache, how can anyone feel sorry for them? They brought a tank to a knife-fight and we gave them the keys.

Keep in mind that the VAST majority of those funds are basically welfare to defense contractors in THIS country. Regardless what personal feelings anyone has toward Israel it is indisputable that they are nearly universally hated by their neighbors and most in the region want them GONE. One does not have to agree with that to understand what can happen globally if that kind of rabid hatred is allowed free reign by making Israel less secure. At some point a war can unfold that causes a nuke to be used. When that occurs we all will lose. It really is as simple as that. All the rest is just about hating on this group of people. If the problem were approached on a more reasoned basis and the Palestinians were actually held to the same standard as Israel is where aggression is concerned then Israel would be "boxed in" and HAVE to be more restrained in their treatment of the Palestinians. As it is they always have the excuse of self defense.

[Frank Merton]

Israel as a genuinely non-corrupt functioning republic under almost constant assault deserves assistance. The States has to make its own decisions who to give help to and who not to, and it makes sense given history and the nature of the situation that Israel would get a lot.

[+and-then]

Israel as a genuinely non-corrupt functioning republic under almost constant assault deserves assistance. The States has to make its own decisions who to give help to and who not to, and it makes sense given history and the nature of the situation that Israel would get a lot.

For me this is the great irony. Those who are most angered by Israel and it's behavior are also the ones who make any questionable behavior possible by complaining about every aspect of their policies of self defense. Never considering that if the surrounding nations were held to similar inspection the problem might actually be turned around some.

[Dark_Grey]

Israel as a genuinely non-corrupt functioning republic under almost constant assault deserves assistance. The States has to make its own decisions who to give help to and who not to, and it makes sense given history and the nature of the situation that Israel would get a lot.

Imagine that you are the one in charge of dividing the foreign aid funds. You can pick any country in the world to send money to. Why pick Israel over one of the countless 3rd world countries where horrific genocides are still ongoing? Think about that question carefully.

Why.

Choose.

Israel.

...what is your answer?

[+and-then]

Imagine that you are the one in charge of dividing the foreign aid funds. You can pick any country in the world to send money to. Why pick Israel over one of the countless 3rd world countries where horrific genocides are still ongoing? Think about that question carefully.

Why.

Choose.

Israel.

...what is your answer?

I of course do not answer for Frank but I hope my input is not intrusion.

1. Israel is a proven ally in a very dangerous part of the world - critical to the policies of the US.

2. The primary aid we give them is military and as such it mostly goes to US contractors so the $ and jobs actually stay here.

3. Those other countries DO receive aid in proportion to their value to America. It sounds cold because it IS cold. This is the way governments operate.

[Dark_Grey]

I of course do not answer for Frank but I hope my input is not intrusion.

1. Israel is a proven ally in a very dangerous part of the world - critical to the policies of the US.

2. The primary aid we give them is military and as such it mostly goes to US contractors so the $ and jobs actually stay here.

3. Those other countries DO receive aid in proportion to their value to America. It sounds cold because it IS cold. This is the way governments operate.

Good answers. Actually, great answers..

[jeem]

As far as i know US do not give aids to those country whose government are involved in violating human rights.

So why shouldn't the US stop aid for Israel?

Because we all know Israel is killing innocent Palestinian

[+and-then]

As far as i know US do not give aids to those country whose government are involved in violating human rights.

So why shouldn't the US stop aid for Israel?

Because we all know Israel is killing innocent Palestinian

We $upport Palestinians and they murder their own regularly. Should we stop funding them as well? If we supported no country that killed dissidents then we'd not be in the M.E. at all

edit to add: We wouldn't be supporting most countries anywhere in the world - it seems to be a pretty common practice.

Edited November 30, 2013 by and then

[thyra]

I of course do not answer for Frank but I hope my input is not intrusion.

1. Israel is a proven ally in a very dangerous part of the world - critical to the policies of the US.

2. The primary aid we give them is military and as such it mostly goes to US contractors so the $ and jobs actually stay here.

3. Those other countries DO receive aid in proportion to their value to America. It sounds cold because it IS cold. This is the way governments operate.

why do you see the region as the most dangerous part of the world? because israel told you so?

so you like israel thinking that they are living in a very dangerous zone because that thinking provides you with jobs and money as individuals indirectly?

what is that to do with governments being cold if you are ok with the situation?

[+and-then]

why do you see the region as the most dangerous part of the world? because israel told you so?

so you like israel thinking that they are living in a very dangerous zone because that thinking provides you with jobs and money as individuals indirectly?

what is that to do with governments being cold if you are ok with the situation?

thyra if someone were attempting to kill you and your children by dropping rockets on them, shooting at them and throwing rocks at their cars I suspect you would feel threatened. ANY normal human being would. Can you name another region that gets more exposure internationally? One that more countries argue over? Israel was born from people who were nearly exterminated. Those people vowed they would never burn in ovens again - alone - and they have nuclear weapons. Is that a threat you feel can be ignored? Strip away all the other B.S. and this is what it all comes down to. Most nations on earth would care nothing about this conflict if it weren't for Israel's ability to light the whole world on fire in answer to being destroyed. I think the majority of nations would not mind Israel disappearing tomorrow but they know in their hearts that they will not go out quietly. The coward's dilemma. Haters but with no stomach to take a risk.

[Yamato]

Want to turn an elephant red? Go talk to a republican America-Firster about billions in federal welfare payments to American citizens in Rhode Island. HA! Politics is what rules them, not principle.

[+and-then]

Want to turn an elephant red? Go talk to a republican America-Firster about billions in federal welfare payments to American citizens in Rhode Island. HA! Politics is what rules them, not principle.

Please Yam.. no talk of elephants tonight - Bama just lost to Auburn

[thyra]

thyra if someone were attempting to kill you and your children by dropping rockets on them, shooting at them and throwing rocks at their cars I suspect you would feel threatened. ANY normal human being would. Can you name another region that gets more exposure internationally? One that more countries argue over? Israel was born from people who were nearly exterminated. Those people vowed they would never burn in ovens again - alone - and they have nuclear weapons. Is that a threat you feel can be ignored? Strip away all the other B.S. and this is what it all comes down to. Most nations on earth would care nothing about this conflict if it weren't for Israel's ability to light the whole world on fire in answer to being destroyed. I think the majority of nations would not mind Israel disappearing tomorrow but they know in their hearts that they will not go out quietly. The coward's dilemma. Haters but with no stomach to take a risk.

you dont understand that there isnt a threat to me and to my children. you just want to see it that way. thats the point i am trying to make.

http://en.wikipedia....pons_and_Israel

http://en.wikipedia....ass_destruction

Palestine on the other hand isnt even a conventional military threat. why are you wearing yourself out? A paranoid point of view you have on israel's safety and this paranoid outlook might bring the doom indeed.

Edited December 1, 2013 by thyra

[Yamato]

Please Yam.. no talk of elephants tonight - Bama just lost to Auburn

That was the most exciting game I've watched all year. 100 yards with 1 second to go, the greatest comeback in SEC history!

[Yamato]

Palestine isnt even a conventional military threat. why are you wearing yourself out? A paranoid point of view you have on israel's safety and this paranoid outlook might bring the doom indeed.

+1

[+and-then]

you dont understand that there isnt a threat to me and to my children. you just want to see it that way. thats the point i am trying to make.

http://en.wikipedia....pons_and_Israel

http://en.wikipedia....ass_destruction

Palestine on the other hand isnt even a conventional military threat. why are you wearing yourself out? A paranoid point of view you have on israel's safety and this paranoid outlook might bring the doom indeed.

You misunderstand me thyra. I truly do not fear for Israel's ultimate destiny - that is secure. I speak on their behalf now because few will. As to conventional threats, 19 guys with boxcutters started the third world war. That UNconventional enough? The dead are just as dead from crude weapons as from sophisticated ones. I speak against the irrational hatred against a people who were justly (under our system at the time) given a piece of land that belonged to Britain via the UN. It was a spoil of war and it was NOT a new or revolutionary thing to do at that time. The land is theirs and they have worked it for 70 years. Now the world wants to take it away again and they are willing to fight to keep it. With nukes if need be. I speak to assert that they have a right to a home just as the Palestinians do and if the world is so consumed with fairness then that would be acknowledged as well. But the Palestinians aren't compelled to even utter a word for the concessions being forced on Israel. NOT ONE WORD. All they have to do is say that Israel is a state of Jewish character. They have built their entire efforts since 1947 in NEVER, EVER allowing this to be. Because of this I have little sympathy for any adult in their midst. They were nurtured on hate and they are reaping its benefits.

[thyra]

You misunderstand me thyra. I truly do not fear for Israel's ultimate destiny - that is secure. I speak on their behalf now because few will. As to conventional threats, 19 guys with boxcutters started the third world war. That UNconventional enough? The dead are just as dead from crude weapons as from sophisticated ones. I speak against the irrational hatred against a people who were justly (under our system at the time) given a piece of land that belonged to Britain via the UN. It was a spoil of war and it was NOT a new or revolutionary thing to do at that time. The land is theirs and they have worked it for 70 years. Now the world wants to take it away again and they are willing to fight to keep it. With nukes if need be. I speak to assert that they have a right to a home just as the Palestinians do and if the world is so consumed with fairness then that would be acknowledged as well. But the Palestinians aren't compelled to even utter a word for the concessions being forced on Israel. NOT ONE WORD. All they have to do is say that Israel is a state of Jewish character. They have built their entire efforts since 1947 in NEVER, EVER allowing this to be. Because of this I have little sympathy for any adult in their midst. They were nurtured on hate and they are reaping its benefits.

First, I think you are not on the right spot of what israel is. second, if you were sure about israels security as a country you wouldnt endlessly think there is something wrong or something wrong will happen. Third, i think country israel have all the means to defend themselves and this is what i wanted show in my previous post. Since this post is about aid for country israel yo may want to think about that info,too.

But I really dont know about what kind of hatred palestanians may have when even the humanitarian is aid cut from their reach and when their side of settlement ground is being taken by country of israel still to this day. you seem to sense how that would reflect though.

[Yamato]

His stated position of: "Everything is going to hell in a hand basket!" combined with "Steady as she goes!" is so irreconcilable it proves he doesn't really believe what he says much less care about "The Jews". He just uses Jewish people as the scapegoats to dishonestly attack anyone critical of the state of Israel.