Helicopter crashes into Glasgow Pub

[+and-then]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/29/world/europe/scotland-helicopter-crash/

[+and-then]

I hope none of our Scottish friends happened to be there! How awful...

[freetoroam]

its a police helicopter.

On news now, to early to know what has happened.

The pub had a band player and was busy.

Multiple people trapped.

Edited November 29, 2013 by freetoroam

[lightly]

Hoping for the best ..... Not to make light of it ... but can you see some bloke telling his wife he's home late from the Pub .. because a helicopter crashed there.. ?

Edited November 29, 2013 by lightly

[spud the mackem]

Its getting near Xmas again and something horrendous always seems to happen just before,like a plane going down,a fire or some such catastrophy where lives are lost.Do we notice this more at this time,or is it fate.

[Still Waters]

One person has died and 32 are injured in this report.

http://www.independe...ow-8974061.html

What an awful thing to happen.

Now it says three people have died in this report.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otland-25165894

Police Scotland say there were three people on board the helicopter - two officers and a civilian pilot.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-25163045

Edited November 30, 2013 by Still Waters

[freetoroam]

8 people have died and 14 in hospital.

Can I trust draw attention to this:

The police helicopter which crashed into the Clutha bar in Glasgow was the only one in operation in Scotland and the disaster has left the country’s national force without a helicopter.

The crash, which has left three dead and dozens of injured, was the third involving police helicopters in the west of Scotland.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/10485595/Crash-leaves-Scotland-without-police-helicopter.html

The question has to be asked: HOW, AGAIN?

This was the only helicopter they have and it crashes...after the last 2 you would have thought the safety of this "last" one would have been 100%. Yes we know accidents do happen, but this is not a case of one out of numerous, this is a case of 1 after 2 others.

[Oscar77]

Probably due to cost cutting and always being in demand cutting down on routine maintenance

[freetoroam]

Probably due to cost cutting and always being in demand cutting down on routine maintenance

For their one and only helicopter. Jeeze, they are not that tight!

[Space Commander Travis]

8 people have died and 14 in hospital.

Can I trust draw attention to this:

The police helicopter which crashed into the Clutha bar in Glasgow was the only one in operation in Scotland and the disaster has left the country’s national force without a helicopter.

The crash, which has left three dead and dozens of injured, was the third involving police helicopters in the west of Scotland.

http://www.telegraph...helicopter.html

The question has to be asked: HOW, AGAIN?

This was the only helicopter they have and it crashes...after the last 2 you would have thought the safety of this "last" one would have been 100%. Yes we know accidents do happen, but this is not a case of one out of numerous, this is a case of 1 after 2 others.

Because they seem to regard themselves as being above the regulations that usually apply to flying over built-up areas, since they are the Law, so they can do what they like. It's the same attitude as why police cars can do what they like with complete disregard for anyone else on the road. And will they ever say what this was supposed to be doing? I doubt it.

[Mr.United_Nations]

I believe the helicopter was on lease from Bond Helicopters

[SilentHunter]

Because they seem to regard themselves as being above the regulations that usually apply to flying over built-up areas, since they are the Law, so they can do what they like. It's the same attitude as why police cars can do what they like with complete disregard for anyone else on the road. And will they ever say what this was supposed to be doing? I doubt it.

Nice negativity. Helicopters do fail from time to time you know. Maintenance engineers are able to remove all risk of engine parts failing during flight.

[Space Commander Travis]

Nice negativity. Helicopters do fail from time to time you know. Maintenance engineers are able to remove all risk of engine parts failing during flight.

Which is exactly why there are regulations about flying over built up areas.

[freetoroam]

Nice negativity. Helicopters do fail from time to time you know. Maintenance engineers are able to remove all risk of engine parts failing during flight.

yes, but there is not a whole load of helicopters to maintain, they only had to take care of ONE.

Which is exactly why there are regulations about flying over built up areas.

Which only seem to apply to some.

[SilentHunter]

yes, but there is not a whole load of helicopters to maintain, they only had to take care of ONE.

Which only seem to apply to some.

No complicated machine with electrics and mechanical parts is 100% safe from failure. It doesnt matter how much you over engineer the device or how frequently you put it in for maintenance it can always fail. Often its unexpected things not taken into consideration in the design of the contraption or human error that get it. This is not the first helicopter to be lost in Scotland (theres been 3 over the last decade) and it wont be the last. Its just very unfortunate a pub was below it when it failed.

Its normal for police helicopters to fly over populated areas and they do so where I live (near an airport with helipads). Its how they catch criminals.

[freetoroam]

No complicated machine with electrics and mechanical parts is 100% safe from failure. It doesnt matter how much you over engineer the device or how frequently you put it in for maintenance it can always fail. Often its unexpected things not taken into consideration in the design of the contraption or human error that get it. This is not the first helicopter to be lost in Scotland (theres been 3 over the last decade) and it wont be the last. Its just very unfortunate a pub was below it when it failed.

Its normal for police helicopters to fly over populated areas and they do so where I live (near an airport with helipads). Its how they catch criminals.

I get what you are saying, but this was no commercial helicopter, it was the one and only emercency services helicopter which is able to fly over at built up area at all hours....all the more reason to make sure the thing is sound, it was the only helicopter they had to do maintenace checks on, and an important one at that.

Can you imagine if the fire services only had 1 fire engine and it breaks down on its way to a fire? The media would have a field day!

You check your vehicle and equipment before you set out, especially if you are the only one to be relied on, its not as if the helicopter was rushing through traffic and had other vehicles in its way.

Edited December 1, 2013 by freetoroam

[spud the mackem]

People killed in Scotland, 36 killed in Mozambique, Aussie lad killed by shark, film star killed in road crash, I guess its Xmas again.My sympathies to all and their families.Its supposed to be a festive season,but more like a tragic time.

[TSS]

I get what you are saying, but this was no commercial helicopter, it was the one and only emercency services helicopter which is able to fly over at built up area at all hours....all the more reason to make sure the thing is sound, it was the only helicopter they had to do maintenace checks on, and an important one at that.

Can you imagine if the fire services only had 1 fire engine and it breaks down on its way to a fire? The media would have a field day!

You check your vehicle and equipment before you set out, especially if you are the only one to be relied on, its not as if the helicopter was rushing through traffic and had other vehicles in its way.

There may have been absolutely nothing wrong with the helicopter, pilot could have had a stroke for all we know.

Having said that, you can check and double check everything and know everything is absolutely perfect on moving parts and still have a failure, because you can't test every component every time you fly. You could stress test every moving component on an engine, reassemble it, set off, and then have the failure. Add to that all the electrical components that can fail (without anything you do to see that in advance)...and it's the chances you take with mechanical and electrical components.

[stevewinn]

could the accident be due to simply running out of fuel? i've noted when watching the reality shows. such as motorway cops etc.. that you often hear of the helicopters returning to base to refuel midway through a incident or call. and on the odd occasion getting back to base with a low fuel warning light. could it be the case here, the helicopter was returning to base and only two miles away. The helicopter didn't cause a fire when it crashed. im no expert but i'd expect a fire of some kind. would the fuel tanks be able to remain intact falling from the sky and into the roof of the building. but maybe the roof broke its fall? its all guess work on my side - we'll just have to wait for the official findings.

[TSS]

could the accident be due to simply running out of fuel? i've noted when watching the reality shows. such as motorway cops etc.. that you often hear of the helicopters returning to base to refuel midway through a incident or call. and on the odd occasion getting back to base with a low fuel warning light. could it be the case here, the helicopter was returning to base and only two miles away. The helicopter didn't cause a fire when it crashed. im no expert but i'd expect a fire of some kind. would the fuel tanks be able to remain intact falling from the sky and into the roof of the building. but maybe the roof broke its fall? its all guess work on my side - we'll just have to wait for the official findings.

It could be that....pot luck really as to whether a fuel tank explodes or not, you can crash your car at 70 and just have a fuel leak, or get T-Boned at 30mph and go straight up in a fire ball. I find it hard to believe an experienced pilot would have taken that route when low on fuel though....it's all guess work though, but i'd take a guess at a medical problem, or a mechanical breakage (hence the description of it just falling like a stone).

[TSS]

One thing they mentioned which I just found out is that both engines run from separate fuel tanks...so it's unlikely to both run out at the same time. Other pilots seem to more concerned with a failure in the tail rotor (in terms of it being more terminal then the main rotor - it didn't make sense to me, but then i'm not a pilot).

[stevewinn]

One thing they mentioned which I just found out is that both engines run from separate fuel tanks...so it's unlikely to both run out at the same time. Other pilots seem to more concerned with a failure in the tail rotor (in terms of it being more terminal then the main rotor - it didn't make sense to me, but then i'm not a pilot).

just been watching the NEWS and its still all guess work. but im hearing them use the word glide. saying the helicopter is designed if engines fail it has the ability to glide. can someone explain how a helicopter glides. and doesn't this raise even more questions, why didnt this one?

[TSS]

just been watching the NEWS and its still all guess work. but im hearing them use the word glide. saying the helicopter is designed if engines fail it has the ability to glide. can someone explain how a helicopter glides. and doesn't this raise even more questions, why didnt this one?

Not sure...tail rotor provides lateral movement though, if you lose that I can't see how you can glide anywhere, I heard that if the gear box on the main rotor goes then you can free spin, and keep some form of control, but if the tail rotor goes you are only going one way, downwards. That was the words of another pilot (para-phrasing)...

[Space Commander Travis]

I believe basically the idea is that if the engines conk out, the rotor will continue spinning, so it can come down to a hopefully reasonably soft landing. Which again, though, would be difficult over a densely built up area, which again makes you ask about the wisdom of using helicopters over built up areas. A conventional plane would be able to glide on its own momentum until it's at least clear of a built up area, hopefully. And for that matter, would be a lot quieter. Perhaps this might be a useful area where Drones could be used.

[SilentHunter]

could the accident be due to simply running out of fuel? i've noted when watching the reality shows. such as motorway cops etc.. that you often hear of the helicopters returning to base to refuel midway through a incident or call. and on the odd occasion getting back to base with a low fuel warning light. could it be the case here, the helicopter was returning to base and only two miles away. The helicopter didn't cause a fire when it crashed. im no expert but i'd expect a fire of some kind. would the fuel tanks be able to remain intact falling from the sky and into the roof of the building. but maybe the roof broke its fall? its all guess work on my side - we'll just have to wait for the official findings.

Yes you could be right. Human error could have led to it not being filled up with enough gas, an electrical sensor error may have given the wrong reading for gas levels or maybe even the fuel line got ruptured. Maybe the pilot was no good or was having a OAP moment, who knows?