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jeem

Genocide by Israel

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Yamato

Since it's a lie it doesn't bother me in the slightest. jeem hasn't produced a single post yet where I uttered such words. My guess is that he's referring to the posting of verses from the Qur'an - ironic isn't it, Paliboy? :)

You're behind the curve; I already implied acknowledgement that he couldn't find a single post yada yada.

My reply had nothing to do with that either. You constantly tell people about the "hate" of others. I've met Muslims and they're the friendliest people I've ever met in my life. They are law abiding, respectful of the US, religious, productive, tax-paying, and they'll give the shirt off their backs if you need it. You need to go to some Mosques or community centers where Muslims are prevalent and meet some already so you actually have some evidence for your opinions instead of parroting the single-minded policy-obedience you find in the mainstream media.

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RavenHawk

Con job ? HOw so ? YOu are using 20th century spin to justify and incriminate your discrimination towards the facts thus stated as in a 'HIstorical' context ...

You claim "freedom" to worship ... why not extend the courtesy ?

How? Try reading what I write. I give a prime example. Actually, it’s now 21st Century spin or better, analysis. Using big words like incriminate and discrimination are off the mark and doesn’t help your position. Where do I claim “freedom” to worship? That is basically a given. I afford Islam the same “freedom”. But a religion based in subjugating populations should expect criticism. Islam can never allow true freedom to worship of anything other than Islam. Why do you think that proselytizing is a major sin that threatens the Ummah.

This bears the ugly hallmark of an empty and prejudiced Rhetoric ...

It is ugly but it is hardly empty. This is Islamic doctrine. It is prejudiced but hardly rhetoric.

Allport's Scale is a measure of the manifestation of prejudice in a society. It is also referred to as Allport's Scale of Prejudice and Discrimination or Allport's Scale of Prejudice. It was devised by psychologist Gordon Allport in 1954.[1][2]

The scale

And Islam uses all 5 levels to subjugate a non Islamic population.

The very first line of this claim is already so wrong I don't even know where to begin with the rest of the paragraph ... what I understand is your 'facts' on the Faith of the Believers is already so entrenched in a corrupted state with such a chauvinistic opinionated bias that I wonder where you get it all from ... be so kind as to state some sources for reference ? Or is it your personal opinion stated here ?

My claim is very accurate. You don’t know where to begin because you’ve quaffed the koolaid. My facts are from Mohammed himself in the form of the Quran. So from your own mouth, my facts *ARE* entrenched in a corrupted state with such a chauvinistic opinionated bias. There is any number of Ayahs to pull from.

3:110 - You are the best nation ever to be produced before mankind. You enjoin the right, forbid the wrong and believe in Allah. If the People of the Book were to believe, it would be better for them. Some of them are believers...

5:13 - So for their breaking of the covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard. They distort words from their [proper] usages and have forgotten a portion of that of which they were reminded. And you will still observe deceit among them, except a few of them. But pardon them and overlook [their misdeeds]. Indeed, Allah loves the doers of good.

9:29 - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

There are tons more but this should do. The first Ayah shows the arrogance that Islam is above all other religions and how much better it would be for the Jew and Christian to follow Allah. Implying that the Torah and the Bible are somehow inferior. The second clearly states that the word of GOD in the Torah and Bible are corrupt. The third one shows the requirement to dominate the other religions and that they can never be equal to Islam. One other thing to note is that Surahs 3, 5, & 9 are Medinan which means that they supersede any conflicting Meccan Surahs. This is the concept of “Abrogation”. This is how Muslims confuse the non believer.

2:106 - We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?

All I can do is to perhaps suggest a reading of :

Don't worry ... its not a book on 'religion'

And I’d be looking for what? If you intended to make a point then yes there is more you can do, like point out what your point is??

Why should I worry?

You didn't get the 'meaning' ... naturally since you read it with a bias mind ...

I could say the same about you. In fact I can say that your mind is far more biased than mine. And I’ve already proved it if I’m anticipating your reply to what I’ve already said.

Psychology of religion consists of the application of psychological methods and interpretive frameworks to religious traditions, as well as to both religious and irreligious individuals. The science attempts to accurately describe the details, origins, and uses of religious beliefs and behaviors. Although the psychology of religion first arose as a self-conscious discipline as recently as the late 19th century, all three of these tasks have a history going back many centuries before that.[1]

This sounds very interesting but were you trying to make a point?

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jeem

But a religion based in subjugating populations should expect criticism. Islam can never allow true freedom to worship of anything other than Islam. Why do you think that proselytizing is a major sin that threatens the Ummah.

I am really interested to hear your explanation.

My claim is very accurate. You don't know where to begin because you've quaffed the koolaid. My facts are from Mohammed himself in the form of the Quran. So from your own mouth, my facts *ARE* entrenched in a corrupted state with such a chauvinistic opinionated bias. There is any number of Ayahs to pull from.

3:110 - You are the best nation ever to be produced before mankind. You enjoin the right, forbid the wrong and believe in Allah. If the People of the Book were to believe, it would be better for them. Some of them are believers...

5:13 - So for their breaking of the covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard. They distort words from their [proper] usages and have forgotten a portion of that of which they were reminded. And you will still observe deceit among them, except a few of them. But pardon them and overlook [their misdeeds]. Indeed, Allah loves the doers of good.

9:29 - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

There are tons more but this should do. The first Ayah shows the arrogance that Islam is above all other religions and how much better it would be for the Jew and Christian to follow Allah. Implying that the Torah and the Bible are somehow inferior. The second clearly states that the word of GOD in the Torah and Bible are corrupt. The third one shows the requirement to dominate the other religions and that they can never be equal to Islam. One other thing to note is that Surahs 3, 5, & 9 are Medinan which means that they supersede any conflicting Meccan Surahs. This is the concept of "Abrogation". This is how Muslims confuse the non believer.

2:106 - We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?

The ayah of Qur'an is explained not only by its meaning.

They are explained through numerical analysis,meaning,in which situation and why the ayah was revealed.

Your explanation is misinterpretation of Qur'an.

Jizya is a tax paid by non-Muslims to ensure they will not fight alongside those non-Muslims who fight against Muslims and ensure your loyalty to the country. More like if you want to rent a house you have to pay an advance(in my country it is common) just to ensure that while you stay in the house you do not damage that property.It is not the indication of superiority.

I suggest you do not use any ayah from Qur'an without understanding them properly.

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jeem

Since it's a lie it doesn't bother me in the slightest. jeem hasn't produced a single post yet where I uttered such words. My guess is that he's referring to the posting of verses from the Qur'an - ironic isn't it, Paliboy? :)

I suggest you read post 122 again

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RavenHawk

I am really interested to hear your explanation.

That wasn’t clear? It was very straight forward. Of the major religions, Islam is the only one that actively commands its members to beat non believers into submission. That’s fact. Under Dhimmitude, a subjugated religion can never really be free. That’s fact. And proselytizing is a major sin in Islam because it does threaten the Ummah. That’s fact.

The ayah of Qur'an is explained not only by its meaning.

They are explained through numerical analysis,meaning,in which situation and why the ayah was revealed.

Your explanation is misinterpretation of Qur'an.

Context is important but numerical analysis?? The Quran was meant to be memorized and recited. You couldn’t expect the common man to remember every little aspect. That is why several concepts are repeated throughout the Quran. The three Ayahs I listed are not misinterpreted.

Surah 3 (Al Imran – Father of Mother Mary) is basically a recap of highlights in the Torah and then a commentary of why the Torah is corrupt. The next Surah, 5 (Al-Ma'ida), starts off with dietary restrictions, interfaith marriages, prayer, etc. Then jumps into how the Jews broke the Covenant with GOD by distorting the messages of Issa and Musa. Surah 9 (At-Tawba) or the Ultimatum. That doesn’t need any explanation. This is basically the call to arms.

Jizya is a tax paid by non-Muslims to ensure they will not fight alongside those non-Muslims who fight against Muslims and ensure your loyalty to the country. More like if you want to rent a house you have to pay an advance(in my country it is common) just to ensure that while you stay in the house you do not damage that property.It is not the indication of superiority.

That is correct for the meaning of Jizya but it is also lame. Muslims must pay the Zakat. In essence there is no difference. Both Muslim and non Muslim give to the state. To ensure loyalty to the country would require fighting for it. If the King fears treachery from non believers then remove them. For treachery at home when the King is away would be far more disastrous; if the King returns having lost his country internally.

I suggest you do not use any ayah from Qur'an without understanding them properly.

Okay! I’d suggest that you refrain from the practice of Taqiya.

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and then

I suggest you read post 122 again

Fair enough.

http://www.****************.com/quran/023-violence.htm

This is a compilation of 109 verses that show the Qur'an directly calling for violence - mostly against unbelievers. Even those that can be construed as some form of self defense are still about fighting that STARTED because others did not want to be submissive to Mohammad or Islam. Christ does not say even ONCE for anyone to take up a sword and kill anyone for his sake. Just the opposite -and to be clear, I am NOT speaking of your "Issa". In Islam Muslims have the choice to be peaceful to other Muslims but not with those who reject Islam utterly. I am not saying that MOST Muslims today actually follow the Qur'an to the letter - just like most "Christians" do not. Ultimately human beings use the text to make excuses to do what they'd like to do anyway. But there can be absolutely no doubt that everywhere around the globe today the major cause of warfare is related to Muslims fighting under the name of Islam for whatever personal vendettas, political schemes or outright thefts they want to commit. The west is guilty of the same kinds of things but we just make up B.S. excuses about spreading "freedom" (oddly enough, we are losing even our own to them) and the wars go on. But Christians are not killing others in the name of God. At least not those who actually have a claim of knowing the Christ of the bible.

in Luke (6:46) Christ calls them out for doing this:

"So why do you keep calling me 'Lord, Lord!' when you don't do what I say?

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jeem

Fair enough.

http://www.thereligi...23-violence.htm

This is a compilation of 109 verses that show the Qur'an directly calling for violence - mostly against unbelievers. Even those that can be construed as some form of self defense are still about fighting that STARTED because others did not want to be submissive to Mohammad or Islam. Christ does not say even ONCE for anyone to take up a sword and kill anyone for his sake. Just the opposite -and to be clear, I am NOT speaking of your "Issa". In Islam Muslims have the choice to be peaceful to other Muslims but not with those who reject Islam utterly. I am not saying that MOST Muslims today actually follow the Qur'an to the letter - just like most "Christians" do not. Ultimately human beings use the text to make excuses to do what they'd like to do anyway. But there can be absolutely no doubt that everywhere around the globe today the major cause of warfare is related to Muslims fighting under the name of Islam for whatever personal vendettas, political schemes or outright thefts they want to commit. The west is guilty of the same kinds of things but we just make up B.S. excuses about spreading "freedom" (oddly enough, we are losing even our own to them) and the wars go on. But Christians are not killing others in the name of God. At least not those who actually have a claim of knowing the Christ of the bible.

in Luke (6:46) Christ calls them out for doing this:

"So why do you keep calling me 'Lord, Lord!' when you don't do what I say?

You gave me that link before.The link misinterpreted the verse from Qur'an.

I suggest you see post 141 topic a civil discussion of drone war.If you found that hard let me know. I will copy the post for you in here

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and then

You gave me that link before.The link misinterpreted the verse from Qur'an.

I suggest you see post 141 topic a civil discussion of drone war.If you found that hard let me know. I will copy the post for you in here

I see. It "misinterprets" the Qur'an 109 times? So one has to BE a Muslim before they can understand it? When people shout that their god is greatest while killing others, jeem, then that IS hate. You call it what you like but don't try to p*** down my back and tell me it's raining.

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jeem

That wasn't clear? It was very straight forward. Of the major religions, Islam is the only one that actively commands its members to beat non believers into submission. That's fact. Under Dhimmitude, a subjugated religion can never really be free. That's fact. And proselytizing is a major sin in Islam because it does threaten the Ummah. That's fact.

For your information I am a Muslim and I never found any command to beat non-believers into submission.Still assuming your claim as true show me evidence?

Answer me why India is not a Muslim state?It was ruled by Mughols(they were Muslims) for more than hundred years.Which conquered land's inhabitant was force to be Muslims?

Context is important but numerical analysis?? The Quran was meant to be memorized and recited. You couldn't expect the common man to remember every little aspect. That is why several concepts are repeated throughout the Quran. The three Ayahs I listed are not misinterpreted.

Lets give an example.We have a Holy day Sobe-kodor.It is probably in the last ten days of Ramadan(usually guessed to be 27th Ramadan), It was guess by numerical analysis.Qur'an was meant for a lifestyle and source of Islamic law.How a Muslim should led his life is written in Qur'an.In our countries Madrasha there are lots of small children and man who got the Qur'an by heart.

Surah 3 (Al Imran – Father of Mother Mary) is basically a recap of highlights in the Torah and then a commentary of why the Torah is corrupt. The next Surah, 5 (Al-Ma'ida), starts off with dietary restrictions, interfaith marriages, prayer, etc. Then jumps into how the Jews broke the Covenant with GOD by distorting the messages of Issa and Musa. Surah 9 (At-Tawba) or the Ultimatum. That doesn't need any explanation. This is basically the call to arms.

I am just talking about the interfaith marriage.We(Muslims) are allowed to marry ahle-kitab(Christian,Jews) and others I do not see any call to arms please explain

That is correct for the meaning of Jizya but it is also lame. Muslims must pay the Zakat. In essence there is no difference. Both Muslim and non Muslim give to the state. To ensure loyalty to the country would require fighting for it. If the King fears treachery from non believers then remove them. For treachery at home when the King is away would be far more disastrous; if the King returns having lost his country internally.

Wrong meaning of Zakat.Zakat is only for able and well-off Muslims and its money is distributed among poor people so they can better their life.

Okay! I'd suggest that you refrain from the practice of Taqiya.

Taqiya is a higher form of Islamic practice.Most of the Muslims in today is not practicing Taqiya.

Edited by jeem

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jeem

I see. It "misinterprets" the Qur'an 109 times? So one has to BE a Muslim before they can understand it? When people shout that their god is greatest while killing others, jeem, then that IS hate. You call it what you like but don't try to p*** down my back and tell me it's raining.

I am asking did you see post 141?

I explained some in there and yes no doubt it misinterprets Qur'an 109 times no doubt about that.

One essentially don't need to be a Muslim but must not looked at it with a biased view.

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Yamato

I see. It "misinterprets" the Qur'an 109 times? So one has to BE a Muslim before they can understand it? When people shout that their god is greatest while killing others, jeem, then that IS hate. You call it what you like but don't try to p*** down my back and tell me it's raining.

Do you want people cherry picking your Holy Scripture and telling you what you believe? That would be you in the mirror.

Maybe you should read the Qu'ran in its entirety instead of relying on stitching together cherries from random parts of the book in order to form a coherent claim against the religion? And what does this have to do with the subject of this discussion?

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RavenHawk

For your information I am a Muslim

I would have never guessed. BTW, that is sarcasm. I knew you were by the way you replied.

and I never found any command to beat non-believers into submission.

Then you are not truthful with yourself, blind, or you’re a typical moderate Muslim, just as And Then stated that most Christians are not Orthodox.

Still assuming your claim as true show me evidence?

Well, that’s what I’ve done. 9:29 was evidence. 9:5 is probably the ultimate but that one also includes everyone else. These are not like a Psalm or something historical. These are a direct commands. Proselytizing, Apostasy, and Partnering Authority with Allah are major sins in Islam, correct? They threaten the stability of the Ummah, again correct? The political response to correct these sins is by force. That is why most Muslim nations are in turmoil today. It is not tolerant with any other source of authority but Islam. In comparison, these sins do not threaten Christianity.

Answer me why India is not a Muslim state?It was ruled by Mughols(they were Muslims) for more than hundred years.Which conquered land's inhabitant was force to be Muslims?

A hundred years is not enough. But it was actually more like 300 years. It takes many generations to pacify a region. This is the main reason that I support Israel. Islam’s history is based on such pacification and domination. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, all I see is whiney crybabies. I fully support the mechanism as part of ethnic cleansing; I just don’t like spoiled brats. But anyway, the reason India is not Muslim is because Islam came up against an equally strong religion, that being Hinduism. Whether it is Hinduism or Christianity, when Islam meets an equal, it retreats. Islam just doesn’t do well when it has to share with equals. But it is ironic that the Mughol Empire was a splinter of the Mongol Empire who were originally Buddhists (but that’s another story).

Lets give an example.We have a Holy day Sobe-kodor.It is probably in the last ten days of Ramadan(usually guessed to be 27th Ramadan), It was guess by numerical analysis.

Well, you got me there. I was thinking about things that were pertinent to the argument. I was taking “numerical analysis” to mean a study of the structure of the Surahs/Ayahs creating some sort of Quran Code (ala Bible Code). Figuring out exactly when one observance or another occurs really has no importance to the issue at hand. This whole comment of yours is non sequitur.

Qur'an was meant for a lifestyle and source of Islamic law.How a Muslim should led his life is written in Qur'an.

Precisely! And believe it or not, I respect that. But at the same time, that is the very reason Muslims rate criticism.

In our countries Madrasha there are lots of small children and man who got the Qur'an by heart.

No doubt that is the case but without the book learning part or in this case the recitation, the heart alone cannot give the full understanding. That’s the same as with Jews and Christians. This is why many concepts are repeated throughout. And the main one is the superiority of Muslims.

I am just talking about the interfaith marriage.We(Muslims) are allowed to marry ahle-kitab(Christian,Jews) and others I do not see any call to arms please explain

You’ve got that wrong. You brought up a good point about being in context, so I provided a little context. The part about interfaith marriage was just for the purpose to present context. That part was non sequitur to the argument and was referring to Surah 5. The call to arms is referring to Surah 9. Does that explain it?

Wrong meaning of Zakat.Zakat is only for able and well-off Muslims and its money is distributed among poor people so they can better their life.

As I said, in essence, those are the same. The state still benefits. One goes to war and the other goes to charity. One is a forced bribe, the other is by choice.

Taqiya is a higher form of Islamic practice.Most of the Muslims in today is not practicing Taqiya.

“By heart” they do. You are doing it now by distracting with peripheral arguments. Not once have you tried to counter the Ayahs that I present, which is the main point of the argument (part of the counter argument of the OP).

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Yamato

And Ben Masada is busy on the religion board telling me all the violent and anti-Semitic things that Christians believe too.

The guy has never been to church. The guy probably never met a Christian in his life. And that's what we have going on here. Slandering and libeling a foreign religion with Zion-approved soundbytes and cherry pickings. I never heard a single anti-Semitic thing in church in 15 years when I was growing up and still going. But don't worry about my life experience, just listen to Ben Masada's bizarre misinterpretations of it.

That's exactly what's going on here. And Ravenhawk and Ben Masada sing from the same hymnal when it comes to Israel.

Christianity? Islam? Nobody is safe from this hyper-nationalistic political movement masquerading as a religio-ethnic group.

Edited by Yamato

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RavenHawk

Do you want people cherry picking your Holy Scripture and telling you what you believe? That would be you in the mirror.

I would love to see that. After reading the Bible long enough, you can’t misinterpret something 109 times. Even with a biased view.

Maybe you should read the Qu'ran in its entirety instead of relying on stitching together cherries from random parts of the book in order to form a coherent claim against the religion?

I have read much of it. At least I try to read the parts in context. The scripture begins to reveal itself if you stick with it. You can tell what is historical, what is poetry, and what are direct commands.

And what does this have to do with the subject of this discussion?

It goes toward the counter argument.

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Yamato

I would love to see that. After reading the Bible long enough, you can't misinterpret something 109 times. Even with a biased view.

I have read much of it. At least I try to read the parts in context. The scripture begins to reveal itself if you stick with it. You can tell what is historical, what is poetry, and what are direct commands.

It goes toward the counter argument.

You can misinterpret 1009 statements in the Qu'ran, there's nothing stopping you that's obvious. As I was just saying about Ben Masada, he claims regularly that 80% of the New Testament is "anti-Semitic", so how many misinterpretations is that?

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and then

Do you want people cherry picking your Holy Scripture and telling you what you believe? That would be you in the mirror.

Maybe you should read the Qu'ran in its entirety instead of relying on stitching together cherries from random parts of the book in order to form a coherent claim against the religion? And what does this have to do with the subject of this discussion?

I suppose you also say it is misinterpreted? 109 TIMES? Go away Paliboy. Tug at someone else's sleeve.

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RavenHawk

You can misinterpret 1009 statements in the Qu'ran, there's nothing stopping you that's obvious. As I was just saying about Ben Masada, he claims regularly that 80% of the New Testament is "anti-Semitic", so how many misinterpretations is that?

I can see how one can interpret the NT as being anti Semitic if you view it through a Catholic view. But if you are honest and serious about seeking the truth, it wouldn’t take long to know that the NT is not anti-Semitic. I guess that is the key. Given a situation where one person that honestly seeks the truth comes to the same conclusion that someone just bent on hatred comes to, doesn’t invalidate the conclusion.

It sounds that Ben simply just hates. And there doesn’t seem to be anyone seeking truthfully that supports that claim (that the NT is anti Semitic). Therefore, Ben must be misinterpreting the NT. Likewise, if there is someone that hates Muslims decries that Islam is a religion of hate, does not invalidate the conclusion that it is violent after careful study. There are many of us critical of Islam that seeks the truth and not hatred. And we get cursed for doing so.

You and he seem to be two peas in a pod. I haven’t found the time to peruse that series of posts, so I can only go on what you say.

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third_eye

~snip

It is ugly but it is hardly empty. This is Islamic doctrine. It is prejudiced but hardly rhetoric.

And by what authority do you claim to speak for Islamic 'Doctrine' ? Which is exactly my point ... HOw learned are you on the religion ?

And Islam uses all 5 levels to subjugate a non Islamic population.

My claim is very accurate. You don't know where to begin because you've quaffed the koolaid. My facts are from Mohammed himself in the form of the Quran. So from your own mouth, my facts *ARE* entrenched in a corrupted state with such a chauvinistic opinionated bias. There is any number of Ayahs to pull from.

~snip

Did Mohammed come to you in your dreams of did he called you on the phone ?

Sorry .. again ... just because you chose to believe in them doesn't make them 'accurate' or 'facts' ... just biased and opinionated.

Why don't you get the facts from those who actually knows what they are talking about ?

  • Life of the Prophet Muhammad - religion facts link

By AL ARABIYA

A 1,500-year-old Bible in which Jesus is believed to have foretold the coming of the Prophet Mohammed to Earth has attracted attention from the Vatican this week.

Pope Benedict XVI has reportedly requested to see the book, which has been hidden in Turkey for the last 12 years, according to the Daily Mail.

The text, reportedly worth $22 million, is said to contain Jesus’ prediction of the Prophet’s coming but was suppressed by the Christian Church for years for its strong resemblance to the Islamic view of Jesus, Turkish culture and tourism minister Ertugrul Gunay told the newspaper.

“In line with Islamic belief, the Gospel treats Jesus as a human being and not a God. It rejects the ideas of the Holy Trinity and the Crucifixion and reveals that Jesus predicted the coming of the Prophet Mohammed,” the newspaper reported.

“In one version of the gospel, he is said to have told a priest: ‘How shall the Messiah be called? Mohammed is his blessed name.’

“And in another, Jesus denied being the Messiah, claiming that he or she would be Ishmaelite, the term used for an Arab,” the newspaper added.

According to the report, Muslims claim the text, which many say is the Gospel of Barnabas, is an addition to the original gospels of Mark, Matthew, Luke and John.

St. Barnabas is traditionally identified as the founder of the Cypriot Church, an early Christian later named an apostle.

  • ‘Jesus predicted coming of Prophet Mohammed’ in Bible found in Turkey
    Sunday, 26 February 2012 - Al Arabiya link

  • Islam Guide link - Who Is the Prophet Muhammad salla.jpg?

In your words ....

There are tons more but this should do. The first Ayah shows the arrogance that Islam is above all other religions and how much better it would be for the Jew and Christian to follow Allah. Implying that the Torah and the Bible are somehow inferior. The second clearly states that the word of GOD in the Torah and Bible are corrupt. The third one shows the requirement to dominate the other religions and that they can never be equal to Islam. One other thing to note is that Surahs 3, 5, & 9 are Medinan which means that they supersede any conflicting Meccan Surahs. This is the concept of "Abrogation". This is how Muslims confuse the non believer.

2:106 - We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?

At least they don't brand the 'unbelievers' heretics and burn them on stakes ... and then start a Crusade bent on genocide ... curious ... do you know where are the Arians ... Cathars ... and or Albegensians today ?

Just because you confuse yourself don;t make the mistake of including others who may be more informed of the facts among your muddled collection of 'facts'

And I'd be looking for what? If you intended to make a point then yes there is more you can do, like point out what your point is??

Why should I worry?

I could say the same about you. In fact I can say that your mind is far more biased than mine. And I've already proved it if I'm anticipating your reply to what I've already said.

This sounds very interesting but were you trying to make a point?

:lol: You wouldn't know what a 'point' is even if it poked you in the eye and made you three times blind ... In fact ... you are already so blind I doubt any kind of point would make any difference ....

Just to humor myself ...

I am not a Muslim ... but I now enough to know that a Muslim is not what you in your arrogance claims to know what a Muslim is, or what you in your racist views claims that Islam represents either for that matter ....

;)

~edit : the usual typonese

Edited by third_eye

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and then

And by what authority do you claim to speak for Islamic 'Doctrine' ? Which is exactly my point ... HOw learned are you on the religion ?

Did Mohammed come to you in your dreams of did he called you on the phone ?

Sorry .. again ... just because you chose to believe in them doesn't make them 'accurate' or 'facts' ... just biased and opinionated.

Why don't you get the facts from those who actually knows what they are talking about ?

  • Life of the Prophet Muhammad - religion facts link

  • Islam Guide link - Who Is the Prophet Muhammad salla.jpg?

In your words ....

At least they don't brand the 'unbelievers' heretics and burn them on stakes ... and then start a Crusade bent on genocide ... curious ... do you know where are the Arians ... Cathars ... and or Albegensians today ?

Just because you confuse yourself don;t make the mistake of including others who may be more informed of the facts among your muddled collection of 'facts'

:lol: You wouldn't know what a 'point' is even if it poked you in the eye and made you three times blind ... In fact ... you are already so blind I doubt any kind of point would make any difference ....

Just to humor myself ...

I am not a Muslim ... but I now enough to know that a Muslim is not what you in your arrogance claims to know what a Muslim is, or what you in your racist views claims that Islam represents either for that matter ....

;)

~edit : the usual typonese

I was unaware that Islam was a race. A religious political system, yes, but a race? Those 109 verses were DIRECTLY from the Qur'an. And according to your logic here, a person must be a very thorough scholar to decipher the words correctly - that is - to understand that they do not mean what they plainly SEEM to mean. This is the usual dodge of those who cannot admit the truth. I do not hate Muslims, in fact I feel quite badly for them and pity them because I earnestly believe they are misguided. I am called by Christ to do so. What does Muhammad call on his followers to do to someone who will not submit?

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GoldenWolf

There will never be peace between these two peoples before Christ returns.

Of course there will never be peace, anyone who is good hearted enough to try and bring peace will be labeled the anti-christ by two billion christians, they would be murdered before peace could happen.

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and then

Of course there will never be peace, anyone who is good hearted enough to try and bring peace will be labeled the anti-christ by two billion christians, they would be murdered before peace could happen.

Having a "good heart" is what gets you killed in the region and it has nothing to do with Christianity. You, as usual, have the need (odd that) to spit on Christians and give Muslims a pass. Do you not see the oddity of that stance considering the events unfolding these days? Or is your bias against the Christian God so strong that you cannot reason any longer?
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third_eye

I was unaware that Islam was a race. A religious political system, yes, but a race? Those 109 verses were DIRECTLY from the Qur'an. And according to your logic here, a person must be a very thorough scholar to decipher the words correctly - that is - to understand that they do not mean what they plainly SEEM to mean. This is the usual dodge of those who cannot admit the truth. I do not hate Muslims, in fact I feel quite badly for them and pity them because I earnestly believe they are misguided. I am called by Christ to do so. What does Muhammad call on his followers to do to someone who will not submit?

There is much you are unaware of ... in the context used here ... it is the racial denomination of Islam that you guys 'hate' ... and NO ... I stress again NO

You did not quote DIRECTLY from the Qur'an ... You quoted from somewhere that CLAIMS to quote directly from the Qur'an ... but you'll never understand the difference.

And YES ... a person MUST be be a very thorough scholar to UNDERSTAND the words ... NEVER decipher the words of scripture ... it is against the laws of all religions.

There is nothing to 'decipher' You believe ... you have faith ... you accept .. not only what you feel like accepting ... not only what you care to or don't ... that is why many considers the many Christian sects today transgressed the laws ... but again ... you will never understand ... that's why you still argue.

YOu call the Muslims misguided ... they call you misguided ... what does that solve ?

What does Muhammad call on his followers to do to someone who will not submit ? The non believers ... help them believe ... the enemies ... unto them as they unto you

What does your Church call on followers to do to someone who will not submit ? Judge them 'heretics' ... and what do your Church do to heretics ?

YOu feel badly for them ? You pity them ? I mean ... you really expect us (incredible as it may seem to you, I won't be the only one reading this) to believe you ?

Called to by Christ ? Its bad enough that you soil and sully JC's good reputation and name through all this ... and now you claim authority from JC ?

What does this Christ of yours say about 'Good / Sacred Hearts' ? It sure as hell don't sound like the JC that I know ...

Be honest ... you don't even acknowledge much less read any of the sources that I post ... do you ?

'Let ye that have eyes ... ye that have ears ... '

~

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jeem

"By heart" they do. You are doing it now by distracting with peripheral arguments. Not once have you tried to counter the Ayahs that I present, which is the main point of the argument (part of the counter argument of the OP).

Sorry I mixed up Taqya and Tasauf in my previous post.Taqya means fearing Allah and if you do not fear Allah you are not a Muslim

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buckskin scout

And you consummately, incessantly fail to explain how. If repetition is what matters, you repetitively use the population of Israel as a justification for Zionist policy. The more Jews waiting to die in the Biblical furnace in Israel there are, the more acceptable to you Zionist policy is. You keep supporting Jewish immigration to Israel and you keep typing hundreds of claims that they're going to die because that's what you believe. I'm not so simple-minded as many Israel supporters to think you actually want people to die, but you're so confused with your own positions, you can't understand simple cause and effect of how what you support will accomplish exactly that.

Ultimately, Yamato, Christian Zionism is as anti-semitic as one can get.

It fully supports Israel believing it will start WWIII and that millions of Jews will die and that this is all sanctified by God too.

I reiterate, Christians need to be very careful how they handle Old Testament prophecies, as many of these words were spoken to the Biblical nation of Israel or to Jews already in exile.

To AT, there wasn't the revelation we have today that we experience with God in the Spirit. A few kings were anointed with the Spirit. A few prophets were anointed with the Spirit. But in the Old Testament, God was prodominately dwelling on the outside and the Jews went to worship in a Temple. God wrote his law on tablets of stone that which was revealed prophetically on the outside in the Old Covenant now dwells inside of us through Christ Jesus. This is the new foundation of the New Covenant that now the Spirit of God has come to live in us and write his law on a heart of flesh.

What would be the purpose, AT, of resurrecting animal sacrifices? What would be the purpose of erecting a third Temple, when God does not dwell in temples made by human hands but in us? What would be the purpose of resurrecting the levitical priesthood in this temple in order to mediate between God and man? Christ is our perfect priest and mediator. Will these not be sacrilages against Christ, AT?

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and then

There is much you are unaware of ... in the context used here ... it is the racial denomination of Islam that you guys 'hate' ... and NO ... I stress again NO

You did not quote DIRECTLY from the Qur'an ... You quoted from somewhere that CLAIMS to quote directly from the Qur'an ... but you'll never understand the difference.

And YES ... a person MUST be be a very thorough scholar to UNDERSTAND the words ... NEVER decipher the words of scripture ... it is against the laws of all religions.

There is nothing to 'decipher' You believe ... you have faith ... you accept .. not only what you feel like accepting ... not only what you care to or don't ... that is why many considers the many Christian sects today transgressed the laws ... but again ... you will never understand ... that's why you still argue.

YOu call the Muslims misguided ... they call you misguided ... what does that solve ?

What does Muhammad call on his followers to do to someone who will not submit ? The non believers ... help them believe ... the enemies ... unto them as they unto you

What does your Church call on followers to do to someone who will not submit ? Judge them 'heretics' ... and what do your Church do to heretics ?

YOu feel badly for them ? You pity them ? I mean ... you really expect us (incredible as it may seem to you, I won't be the only one reading this) to believe you ?

Called to by Christ ? Its bad enough that you soil and sully JC's good reputation and name through all this ... and now you claim authority from JC ?

What does this Christ of yours say about 'Good / Sacred Hearts' ? It sure as hell don't sound like the JC that I know ...

Be honest ... you don't even acknowledge much less read any of the sources that I post ... do you ?

'Let ye that have eyes ... ye that have ears ... '

~

So if I go to multiple sources and look for these verses they will not appear the same? Or is it that you feel only a believer can understand them?

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