Adam Deen | Islam Is A Peaceful Religion

[Einsteinium]

Islam is no more violent than Christianity. If you don't think so, crack open a history book and learn. Crusades?? Started by Christians. Pretty much every land Christians have conquered they have also forced conversions. And their force usually involves destroying homes and raping and murdering.

But that's okay apparently.

Movements throughout history have been violent. You are right, Christians have had times in history where they were extremely militant and violent, for the most part the violent arms of Christianity have quieted down a bit. It still exists, but it is rare nowadays.

Religion is not the root cause of violence don't be a patsy. Atheists have committed atrocities just the same as the religious leaders of our world throughout history.

The fact that violence is such a common occurrence in the Islamic world has more to do with the history and geography of the region than Islam. Just read up on it, Bin Laden himself wrote about the impact of the fall of the Ottoman Empire on the region and stated that 9/11 was meant to give America a taste of what that was like. The crusades play into it as well. Bottom line is the people over there are so discontent, and they feel so stepped on by the wider world that their is a lot of hatred and anger brewing over there, has been like that for a long time. The fact that it is spilling over into the rest of the world is not the fault of the Islam religion, it is the result of a long and complex history filled with oppression, genocide, and exploitation mixed in with a lack of education and the desensitization to death and war resulting from constantly dealing with it for so long over so many generations.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Einsteinium

[thyra]

I know that the Bible contains such barbarism.

it isnt barbarism.that wasnt my intention. I wanted to show the similarity between two books.

you will see in all holy tetxs things that is really really hard for human nature to explain at one sight. things that will shock you, things that will make you cry and things that will make your blood freeze. there will be things like you will never be able to explain. like for example. some arbitrary looking letters that mean nothing, preceeding some verses.

it isnt barbarism. Not one bit. I never want to see it that way due to my respect to those people who read it with their hearts and saw the actual meaning behind it.

[Phaeton80]

So, Phaeton, you're saying that there is absolutely no violence whatsoever done in the name of Islam? At any time? To any personages living or dead?

This is what you conclude from my posts?

Remarkable.

[il-Hares]

it isnt barbarism.that wasnt my intention. I wanted to show the similarity between two books.

you will see in all holy tetxs things that is really really hard for human nature to explain at one sight. things that will shock you, things that will make you cry and things that will make your blood freeze. there will be things like you will never be able to explain. like for example. some arbitrary looking letters that mean nothing, preceeding some verses.

it isnt barbarism. Not one bit. I never want to see it that way due to my respect to those people who read it with their hearts and saw the actual meaning behind it.

condoning slavery, rape, infanticide and genocide etc- that is barbarism

[Phaeton80]

Look, the bible didnt create the inquisition. Fearmongering power hungry human beings did.

If you can take the teachings of Christ and subsequently proceed to kill young & elderly women alike enmasse, you know somethings awry.

Religion is nothing but a tool, which can be used for 'good', and 'evil'. The wielder is decisive.

The wielder is Man.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Phaeton80

[thyra]

condoning slavery, rape, infanticide and genocide etc- that is barbarism

there is a man who doesnt read it that way, thanks for reminding him to me again and reminding how precious his point of view is.

[il-Hares]

Look, the bible didnt create the inquisition. Fearmongering power hungry human beings did.

If you can take the teachings of Christ and proceed to kill young & elderly women alike, you know somethings awry.

Religion is nothing but a tool, which can be used for 'good', and 'evil'. The wielder is decisive.

The wielder is Man.

Religion is not a tool, its a weapon.

[il-Hares]

there is a man who doesnt read it that way, thanks for reminding him to me again and reminding how precious his point of view is.

I read it as it is, a storybook.

I know what is wrong and what is right, no need for some old fairytale.

[spartan max2]

Didn't Muhammad go to war to spread his religion? and isn't that like the central figure of Islam? So would that not make Islam a violent religion?

Central figure of christanity for example is Jesus and he told people to turn the other cheek. Muhammad went to war...soooooooo? How is Islam not violent.

[freetoroam]

Where and when did he say it is SOLELY a religion of peace? Wonderfully little deceptive adverb you snuck on in there.

he mentions extremists, they are still muslims, so, yes you are right, it is not a solely peaceful religion, so why is he not addressing them instead? As long as there are muslims in the western world that want to kill us, his "peaceful" speech is fruitless... He should be talking to them, not us!

Well then, with that logic Christianity can get right on that band wagon with "Islam".

Christian Terrorism

really, the Crusades have finished, islamists are still killing in the name of islam.

But you missed this from my earlier post:

"as long as people do not try and say they are peaceful, history IS our witness, be it islam, Christianity or Judaism, that this is not the case."

Your last two lines smack of hate and bigotry.

how typical! what would you rather me say "I love islam and want it to flourish in this western country"? and because you know that I do not love it and do not want it to flourish here, that makes me a hater and a bigot?

NO group, religion or otherwise, can be characterized as SOLELY anything because human individual are not identical nor do the function and interpret thing identically.

This I agree on, hence why I said that he should not be trying to tell us that islam is a peaceful religion, IT IS NOT SOLELY a peaceful religion, for the reason you have stated, so why is he trying to tell us it is even peaceful at all?

I am not saying all muslims hate the west, but as long as they are there and living in our western countries, he has got a very long task against him to try and convince some of us otherwise.

My point is, do not try and convince us how peaceful it is, show us it is by not allowing other muslims to murder on our streets....but we know this will not happen.

We have heard the " he was such a nice guy" stories when a muslim has been caught as a terrorist, was that "nice man" one of the peaceful muslims we were supposed to trust once? bet he was.

Edited December 6, 2013 by freetoroam

[thyra]

I read it as it is, a storybook.

I know what is wrong and what is right, no need for some old fairytale.

thats one way to look at it. yes, you will never commit murder or join in making someone a slave deliberately, rape or hurt. you know whats right and wrong. you know these are all wrong but you are living in a world where such things happen. a side of you may remain angry.

[toast]

it isnt barbarism.that wasnt my intention. I wanted to show the similarity between two books.

you will see in all holy tetxs things that is really really hard for human nature to explain at one sight. things that will shock you, things that will make you cry and things that will make your blood freeze. there will be things like you will never be able to explain. like for example. some arbitrary looking letters that mean nothing, preceeding some verses. it isnt barbarism. Not one bit. I never want to see it that way due to my respect to those people who read it with their hearts and saw the actual meaning behind it.

Sorry, but I canot get yr points here.

[thyra]

Sorry, but I canot get yr points here.

thats all right. perhaps next time, on a similar issue, in another discussion with somebody else, the point is better made. if what I said isnt important, it will get lost anyway.

[il-Hares]

thats one way to look at it. yes, you will never commit murder or join in making someone a slave deliberately, rape or hurt. you know whats right and wrong. you know these are all wrong but you are living in a world where such things happen. a side of you may remain angry.

I know I am angry - mostly because other people commit those crimes and they affect me and my loved ones directly or indirectly.

I'm not saying I'm perfect or a saint (I was born and raised in a predominantly christian country, so my speech is full of religious stuff, even my swearing).

[Philangeli]

Erm.. yeah. Well you see, the beauty of conditioning is that the victim - per very definition - is blisfully unaware of it.

And given your former post was filled to the very brim with xenophobic, highly subjective, utterly misconstrued content.. Let me just be the one to tell you.., you my good man, are one conditioned mofo.

(I mean 'mofo' in a friendly sort of way)

It is pretty well documented that once Mohammed had consolidated his position locally, he sough to expand and conquer neigbouring Christian and Jewish towns - which involved putting all men to the sword and seizing their women and booty,

Who exactly is beng conditioned here?

Edited December 6, 2013 by Philangeli

[Phaeton80]

It is pretty well documented that once Mohammed had consolidated his position locally, he sough to expand and attack neigbouring Christian and Jewish towns and conquer them - which involved putiing all men to the sword and seizing their women and booty,

Who exactly is beng conditioned here?

You seem to think I am the man in the OP vdo.

Im afraid I need to burst that bubble.

[Philangeli]

You seem to think I am the man in the OP vdo.

Im afraid I need to burst that bubble.

Why do you say that?

[Phaeton80]

I will add that if you would actually take the time to read the book instead of using it like an encyclopedia, and take note of the (contemporary, cultural) context, you might just form a different opinion.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Phaeton80

[thyra]

I know I am angry - mostly because other people commit those crimes and they affect me and my loved ones directly or indirectly.

I'm not saying I'm perfect or a saint (I was born and raised in a predominantly christian country, so my speech is full of religious stuff, even my swearing).

A perceived anger is better than an anger that you hide all your life.

Being born a christian is a very good thing. Religions are not bad. All things in this world are here to serve you to get close to your inner truth..as long as you have such a desire of course. when this desire is lacking many things remain hidden.

MHO is that religious texts are one of the best ways to try that because they sure strip you off your mind first when you read them and rebuild it from ground zero. Besides there is help from many spiritual people who read those texts and got closer to their meaning. People shouldnt fear religions or religious texts. This would be a mistake. they should be so open that eventually a christian should be able to see all world as hindu and take delight in it or a muslim should be able to do it for buddhism. This can only be done through proper understanding of religious texts at hand.

[Philangeli]

I will add that if you would actually take the time to read the book instead of using it like an encyclopedia, and take note of the (contemporary, cultural) context, you might just form a different opinion.

Have you actually studied the history of Islam?

It's got nothing to do with my opinion.

It's a fact that Islam condones the stoning of women because their husbands, on a whim, happen to say they are guilty of adultery.

Would you consider that to be 'peaceful' behaviour?

Edited December 6, 2013 by Philangeli

[il-Hares]

A perceived anger is better than an anger that you hide all your life.

Being born a christian is a very good thing. Religions are not bad. All things in this world are here to serve you to get close to your inner truth..as long as you have such a desire of course. when this desire is lacking many things remain hidden.

MHO is that religious texts are one of the best ways to try that because they sure strip you off your mind first when you read them and rebuild it from ground zero. Besides there is help from many spiritual people who read those texts and got closer to their meaning. People shouldnt fear religions or religious texts. This would be a mistake. they should be so open that eventually a christian should be able to see all world as hindu and take delight in it or a muslim should be able to do it for buddhism. This can only be done through proper understanding of religious texts at hand.

I read the bible twice, koran once. I also read and see the corruption and deceit in the church nowadays, the failings of a god who's supposed to be benevolent to his children, yet if he exists, I'd classify him as a deadbeat dad.

Atm, I see all world as free to believe what they want, and be at a certain type of peace although I'm still angry - if you get what I mean.

[+HerNibs]

he mentions extremists, they are still muslims, so, yes you are right, it is not a solely peaceful religion, so why is he not addressing them instead? As long as there are muslims in the western world that want to kill us, his "peaceful" speech is fruitless... He should be talking to them, not us!

Your doing a bit of twisting of my words. I never said Islam is SOLELY a peaceful religion. YOU stated that Mr. Deen said it was. I'm stating that he speaks in generalities about Islam and that he says the true core of Islam isn't about violence. If you watch and read more of his quotes and discussions you will see that he doesn't support violence at all.

Let's try your statement another way - As long as there are christians in the western world that want to kill us, his "peaceful" speech is fruitless... He should be talking to them, not us!

Hmmm...the biggest response I usually see when a "christian" commits violence in the name of Jesus or Christianity is an outcry of "he isn't a real Christian".

Extremism is wrong. Violence is wrong. There are nutjobs found in every camp. It isn't fair to paint ALL with one brush. It's like saying ALL postal workers are violent. Nonsense.

really, the Crusades have finished, islamists are still killing in the name of islam.

It appears that you didn't read the article. Nothing pre 1984 was mentioned. It was all recent terrorism done in the name of Christianity by christians.

But you missed this from my earlier post:

"as long as people do not try and say they are peaceful, history IS our witness, be it islam, Christianity or Judaism, that this is not the case."

Didn't miss it at all. It's useless equivocating.

how typical! what would you rather me say "I love islam and want it to flourish in this western country"? and because you know that I do not love it and do not want it to flourish here, that makes me a hater and a bigot?

Typical? Of me? Never asked you to say anything. Don't care if you love it or not. My point (as you surely understand) is that you are using broad strokes against a group of people as a whole.

Bigotry - Bigotry is the state of mind of a bigot: someone who, as a result of their prejudices, treats or views other people with fear, distrust, hatred, contempt, or intolerance on the basis of a person's ethnicity, race, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, disability, socioeconomic status, or other characteristics.

This I agree on, hence why I said that he should not be trying to tell us that islam is a peaceful religion, IT IS NOT SOLELY a peaceful religion, for the reason you have stated, so why is he trying to tell us it is even peaceful at all?

I am not saying all muslims hate the west, but as long as they are there and living in our western countries, he has got a very long task against him to try and convince some of us otherwise.

My point is, do not try and convince us how peaceful it is, show us it is by not allowing other muslims to murder on our streets....but we know this will not happen.

You prove my point.

We have heard the " he was such a nice guy" stories when a muslim has been caught as a terrorist, was that "nice man" one of the peaceful muslims we were supposed to trust once? bet he was.

Yeah, Timothy McVeigh was supposed to be a "nice guy". Kind of like this guy -

Nibs

[thyra]

Have you actually studied the history of Islam?

It's got nothing to do with my opinion.

It's a fact that Islam condones the stoning of women because their husbands, on a whim, happen to say they are guilty of adultery.

Would you consider that to be 'peaceful' behaviour?

and many women are burned by inquisition because they are thought to be witches. so?

"According to Kirk Durston, National Director, New Scholars Society:

The most realistic figure for the Spanish Inquisition puts the total killed from AD1480 to AD1808 at up to 31,912. Finally, records indicate that the number of "witches" killed may be over 30,000. Some

argue that records don't tell everything and suggest that maybe even 100,000 were killed. These three events, totaling over 264,000 killed, are thought to be the largest atrocities perpetrated by one or another form of Christendom."

[Philangeli]

and many women are burned by inquisition because they are thought to be witches. so?

"According to Kirk Durston, National Director, New Scholars Society:

The most realistic figure for the Spanish Inquisition puts the total killed from AD1480 to AD1808 at up to 31,912. Finally, records indicate that the number of "witches" killed may be over 30,000. Some

argue that records don't tell everything and suggest that maybe even 100,000 were killed. These three events, totaling over 264,000 killed, are thought to be the largest atrocities perpetrated by one or another form of Christendom."

"and many women are burned by inquisition" What?? What century are you living in?

I like to think we have moved on a bit over the last 300 years. Some of us apparently haven't!

So, going by your logic - if it was OK to burn/stone women to death 300 years ago or 1,500 years ago, it's OK to do it now?

Give me strength.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Philangeli

[thyra]

I read the bible twice, koran once. I also read and see the corruption and deceit in the church nowadays, the failings of a god who's supposed to be benevolent to his children, yet if he exists, I'd classify him as a deadbeat dad.

Atm, I see all world as free to believe what they want, and be at a certain type of peace although I'm still angry - if you get what I mean.

I understand. I just got angry, too