Don't Need a Gun, Get a Dog...

[JGirl]

I know a lot of gun owners and none of them have "over-the-top aggressive attitude". What you're describing is rare.

once again, with a heavy sigh, this is an opinion based on what I read and hear from many gun owners here and elsewhere, especially when they are being passionate about their right to bear arms. they will often use their right to protect family etc as a justification to express themselves aggressively with regard to what they would do to anyone who would DARE to come at them.

you all read the same stuff as I do, so please don't be jumping on me about how wrong I am. it is afterall my subjective opinion. there is no statistic to back up or disregard what I have said.

[FLOMBIE]

Oh.... Well yes. I already have to go through a bunch of red tape to purchase a weapon. What else do you want?

A proper registry.

Partly from the supply that's already in other places. It does not take much for a skilled machinist to make a gun. The manufacturers that supply the military are not going away either. Ban guns and they will simply move to a country without those restrictions.

Which country? There is no other country with as lax gun laws as the US. Again, the supply coming from outside the country is only a small fraction of your illegal gun supply.

It's not a different subject, it's the way economics works.

Economics work differently for different products.

It dosnt!!! Do you think I cannot go to the UK, Australia, or any other country and not find someone willing to sell me an assault weapon. Sure I take some risks. But that's what criminals do.

How would you find someone? I have no idea. The price of an aussault rifle in the UK, which is always an illegal one if it is in private hands, is very high, and thus makes it nearly unobtainable for your average thug. During my legal clerkship at a local court in Berlin I had to deal a lot with criminals, and the statistics showed that 1.5% of them possessed a firearm. This is not because our criminals are nicer, it is due to the fact that illegal guns are very hard to get. That is a fact that all countries with strict gun registration show. That is the reason why the US, the only country without those rules, is the country that has the biggest problem with guns in the first world, if I have to choose a word for a comparison. You cannot get around that.

If you are referring to statistics, America is a very different place than these relatively small europian countries or tightly controlled Asian ones. We have vast socioeconomic problems and history. We are a huge country that is only a little over 200 years old. It's not only guns that set us apart from other places that's a very insignificant and short sighted analysis. We have multitudes of inner cities, vast income differences, and complex multiple cultural communities. It so silly to blame violence in a place like the US whike comparing it to another place. Guns don't have anything to do with it. It's actually that sort of short sighted, emotional problem solving that is the problem in the first place. Our attitude towards drugs is a case in point. No I don't like drugs, and whatever the consequences some should be illegal. But I'm not blind to those consequences, and the ones that cause more harm than good should be dropped. But this us what real critical thinking and cost benefit analysis does for you. Trying to control something because of an emotional attachment, and pointing at examples that are nothing alike is simply ineffective and breeds more probkems than it creates. The US is actually quit good at that, but such is freedom. It's a constant struggle against control freaks. Some places, you are not even allowed to have vegetables growing in your front yard.

Have you ever been to Europe? Because I believe there might be a misconception. Europe has all the same problems you describe. The EU is a huge complex of nations, all with their own legislation and open borders. The income differences are there (Euro crisis?), and if you do not know about the multi cultural aspects of Europe, I strongly suggest you visiting the European forum on this board. Now you can all say the US is different, but it's really just the same crap from a different hole. I have lived in both Europe and the US, and can at least compare from my own perspective.

I give you that the vast size of the US bears a legislative problem, or better an enforcing problem, but to me that looks more like a reason to set a preciser regulation into motion. By that I do not mean blindly cutting everybody's "freedom", rights, or however you want to call it. I will get into that in further detail in my next paragraph.

Yes. I think putting some controls in place is reasonable. But that is not what is happening. We have enough. They are trying to make it harder and harder to the point of trying to ban parts that make weapons non functional. All kinds of cocamani ideas like having your personal number stamped on shells. This device has to be personally made and effectively doubles the price of a rifle. Or laws that punish people if their weapons are stolen or lost. why and the hell would I ever report a burglary then. The anti gun lobby is not out for reasonable control. Their attitude is that its only a matter of time that we can get the right combination of laws to make having a gun nearly impossible.thats the way legislation works now a days. A slow death for a sleeping or misinformed public.

I aggree with you on the US approach of gun control. Especially the recent changes look like blind activism to me. Targeting specific kinds of guns or equipment makes no sense at all. Only universal regulations work, and also only if these are enforced throughout the country. I don't even understand why some places try establishing these isular laws. What sense does it make to restrict someone from buying a gun in Chicago, if he can ask his buddy from outside the city to buy him one. And it's the straw man purchase he'd go for anyway, so why even try?

Here comes the gun registry into play. This is what would the straw man purchase significantly harder, as any gun can be traced back to the owner. Why would I report a gun stolen? Because if they trace the gun back to me, I'd be in a lot more trouble. And yes, you can file off the number, etc, but there are a multitude ways of identifying a gun.

The best thing is, that all this is possible without infringing everyone's right to own a gun. You can have your gun, as many as you want, as long as you register them. And I believe that if your "freedom" has come to a point where it's a harm to a lot of people, it is time to alter it without changing its essential content.

I could dwelve more deeply into that, and I certainly would enjoy that due to my profession, but I think that would be too boring for you guys.

[Collateral Damage]

it is obvious that you like to argue. unfortunately you have no argument with me.

when I say many gun owners have an overthetop aggressive attitude I am stating an opinion, not a statistic, as you should well know and if you don't get that then you should refrain from commenting.

most of what you've written here has nothing to di with what I've said.

all one needs to do is read the many many many threads on gun laws, gun rights, gun related whatever on this site and so many others to see how aggressive some people can be. it's not enough to protect their homes, their families. they want to annihilate that intruder. they want to shoot that guy's balls off, they want to tear him limb from limb cut him a new hole etc etc. bleed him out slowly, make him suffer. blah blah blah,.

that is over the top. that is the type of person I do not like to see with a firearm.

as for subjective view. so what? this is a forum. we all have opinions. get over yourself.

You're damn right. If someone were ever to enter my home without permission they are getting a swift bullet to their nutsack. I have a family to protect. Sorry that doesn't meet your criteria and upsets you. Then again, your opinion is far less important than the life of my own flesh and blood! (=

[FLOMBIE]

You're damn right. If someone were ever to enter my home without permission they are getting a swift bullet to their nutsack. I have a family to protect. Sorry that doesn't meet your criteria and upsets you. Then again, your opinion is far less important than the life of my own flesh and blood! (=

What speaks against holding them at gunpoint until the police arrives? Do you think they want to kill you so bad they don't care about their own life? If they make a move for it, go for them, but simply blasting them away for breaking in seems disproportionate.

[Collateral Damage]

I mean, the gun nuts like to argue that limiting magazine capacity is pointless, because you can just quickly change magazines, so why then do you need them?

pfft. "Gun nuts". I remember when I was in 5th grade.

What speaks against holding them at gunpoint until the police arrives? Do you think they want to kill you so bad they don't care about their own life? If they make a move for it, go for them, but simply blasting

them away for breaking in seems disproportionate.

If they truly value their life they wouldn't be breaking into my home of wife and children. I don't make excuses for the criminals who continue to bring our once beautiful country down the shi**er.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Collateral Damage

[+OverSword]

What speaks against holding them at gunpoint until the police arrives? Do you think they want to kill you so bad they don't care about their own life? If they make a move for it, go for them, but simply blasting them away for breaking in seems disproportionate.

I agree that it would be optimum if you could just have them sit quietly with your gun trained on them until the police arrive, however in a situation like that you don't get alot of time to consider what moves you're going to make.

My own personal mode of operations and assumptions involving fire arms is don't ever pull a gun out unless you're going to shoot someone. One good reason not to own a gun actually. I really don't think any of my mterial posessions are worth killing or dying over. But put my back to the wall and I've got knives, swords, and baseball bats that I would introduce you to.

[Neognosis]

Can you please show any statistics that demonstrate that high capacity mags make one iota of difference to crime rates or is this just a knee jerk emotional response from you not based on any facts or stats?

Large capacity magazines are generally not used in most homicides.

Where they are used are in most mass killings.

And mass killings are the most terrifying because, even though the chance of being involved in one is extremely slim, they seem completely random and often kill the most innocent of people.

Would the sandy hook massacre been as bad if Adam Lanza had to stop and change magazines on that bushmaster?

I don't know. Maybe a few kids would have survived. I would really find it hard to go on living if my kid was the one killed by the thirtieth bullet out of a 30 round magazine.

But don't concern yourself with that, I mean, I don't want to inconvenience you when you are at the range and having to reload every 10 rounds instead of 30.

I think we need fewer restrictions, but incredibly harsh, draconian measures for any irresponsible handling of a gun, including losing a gun, not reporting a gun stolen, failure to properly secure a gun, or committing any felony while in possession of a gun, even if the gun is not used or displayed during the crime.

Also, making an unregistered handgun illegal to possess will not stop criminals from getting one. However, if the penalty for possessing an unregistered handgun was a 50 year sentence, I suspect that we would see fewer criminals with illegal weapons.

[JGirl]

You're damn right. If someone were ever to enter my home without permission they are getting a swift bullet to their nutsack. I have a family to protect. Sorry that doesn't meet your criteria and upsets you. Then again, your opinion is far less important than the life of my own flesh and blood! (=

lol

geez

[aztek]

all one needs to do is read the many many many threads on gun laws, gun rights, gun related whatever on this site and so many others to see how aggressive some people can be. it's not enough to protect their homes, their families. they want to annihilate that intruder. they want to shoot that guy's balls off, they want to tear him limb from limb cut him a new hole etc etc. bleed him out slowly, make him suffer. blah blah blah,.

that is over the top. that is the type of person I do not like to see with a firearm.

as for subjective view. so what? this is a forum. we all have opinions. get over yourself.

lol, and you take all that crap seriously?? lmao,

most of those would sht their pants if they got such situation in reality, even if they were armed, there will be no balls flying off, limbs cut up, bleeding out. ,,,,etc. do you think it is easy for anyone pull a trigger, and kill someone?? especially violently like that??? pay no mind to children talk like that.

you have a wild imagination, and it makes you be scared of anyone who likes to blah, blah....

[aztek]

Would the sandy hook massacre been as bad if Adam Lanza had to stop and change magazines on that bushmaster?

he did stopped and reloaded,

what would happen if he brought a 5 gallons of gasoline with him? but only few rounds, in 5 round magazine? he planned on dying anyway.

what would happen if he didn't have a honda to drive him there?. he'd find another car. same pattern above

If they truly value their life they wouldn't be breaking into my home of wife and children. I don't make excuses for the criminals who continue to bring our once beautiful country down the shi**er.

not to mention it is extremely stupid to hope a criminal would not hurt you, after braking into your house. i remember there was a link here, with a story that teaches you, not to trust a criminal.

[Hawken]

I have had guns since I was 12. My main purpose for them was to hunt wild game. Not kill people,

However, if an intruder broke in my house and tried to do me bodily harm I will defend myself.

[JGirl]

I have had guns since I was 12. My main purpose for them was to hunt wild game. Not kill people,

However, if an intruder broke in my house and tried to do me bodily harm I will defend myself.

and rightly so.

[JGirl]

lol, and you take all that crap seriously?? lmao,

most of those would sht their pants if they got such situation in reality, even if they were armed, there will be no balls flying off, limbs cut up, bleeding out. ,,,,etc. do you think it is easy for anyone pull a trigger, and kill someone?? especially violently like that??? pay no mind to children talk like that.

you have a wild imagination, and it makes you be scared of anyone who likes to blah, blah....

you know nothing about my imagination, so let's keep that out of our conversation shall we?

no I take none of it seriously. truth be told I find it to be a display of immaturity to feel one has to puff themselves up to be so tough and intimidating.

it's enough to shoot someone to defend oneself and one's property. I have no objection to arming oneself for this purpose, nor do I have a problem with it being implemented in the case of an attack or home invasion etc.

all the tough guy crap is stupidity and ignorance IN MY OPINION. did I say that loud enough for ya?

Edited December 11, 2013 by JGirl

[White Crane Feather]

A proper registry.

Which country? There is no other country with as lax gun laws as the US. Again, the supply coming from outside the country is only a small fraction of your illegal gun supply.

Economics work differently for different products.

How would you find someone? I have no idea. The price of an aussault rifle in the UK, which is always an illegal one if it is in private hands, is very high, and thus makes it nearly unobtainable for your average thug. During my legal clerkship at a local court in Berlin I had to deal a lot with criminals, and the statistics showed that 1.5% of them possessed a firearm. This is not because our criminals are nicer, it is due to the fact that illegal guns are very hard to get. That is a fact that all countries with strict gun registration show. That is the reason why the US, the only country without those rules, is the country that has the biggest problem with guns in the first world, if I have to choose a word for a comparison. You cannot get around that.

Have you ever been to Europe? Because I believe there might be a misconception. Europe has all the same problems you describe. The EU is a huge complex of nations, all with their own legislation and open borders. The income differences are there (Euro crisis?), and if you do not know about the multi cultural aspects of Europe, I strongly suggest you visiting the European forum on this board. Now you can all say the US is different, but it's really just the same crap from a different hole. I have lived in both Europe and the US, and can at least compare from my own perspective.

I give you that the vast size of the US bears a legislative problem, or better an enforcing problem, but to me that looks more like a reason to set a preciser regulation into motion. By that I do not mean blindly cutting everybody's "freedom", rights, or however you want to call it. I will get into that in further detail in my next paragraph.

I aggree with you on the US approach of gun control. Especially the recent changes look like blind activism to me. Targeting specific kinds of guns or equipment makes no sense at all. Only universal regulations work, and also only if these are enforced throughout the country. I don't even understand why some places try establishing these isular laws. What sense does it make to restrict someone from buying a gun in Chicago, if he can ask his buddy from outside the city to buy him one. And it's the straw man purchase he'd go for anyway, so why even try?

Here comes the gun registry into play. This is what would the straw man purchase significantly harder, as any gun can be traced back to the owner. Why would I report a gun stolen? Because if they trace the gun back to me, I'd be in a lot more trouble. And yes, you can file off the number, etc, but there are a multitude ways of identifying a gun.

The best thing is, that all this is possible without infringing everyone's right to own a gun. You can have your gun, as many as you want, as long as you register them. And I believe that if your "freedom" has come to a point where it's a harm to a lot of people, it is time to alter it without changing its essential content.

I could dwelve more deeply into that, and I certainly would enjoy that due to my profession, but I think that would be too boring for you guys.

I don't know about the other states, but all of my weapons are registered, waiting periods double id checks etc etc. that stuff is already there.

The weapons are expensive here too. It Simply takes a little street smarts. No I don't buy illegal weapons? But I do know how to? You just have to listen for the right kind of random talk and be able to participate in it without saying anything directly. No I'm not a criminal, I just pay attention. And unfortunately for about 10 years ( hell i grew up around worse now that i think about it) I was around the wrong kind of people and picked up a on a lot. One paranoid person I know of would pick up a hand gun every where he traveled to then ditch it before he left. He was a professional fighter and traveled all over the world.

I have done detailed economic regressions on how different countries an sub cultures respond to market changes, and economic influences. Europe is a lot different than the us. It has its own probkems for sure but its a different kind of world. Especially when it comes to gun culture Though it certainly is getting less so.

Don't you get it. A large portion of the us does not want to be like the UK or other parts of Europe. We have our own culture and for many of us that includes fire arms for hunting, protection, and sport.

Like I said. We are already forced to register firearms but I live in ca other states might be different. There are all ready laws in place for that here. It still dosnt matter. Here in ca we have the most restrictive laws, and you still do not want to be hanging around salinas or Stockton or parts of LA or even parts of the Bay Area. The laws simply do nothing but facilitate burocracy and black market activity. It really is fundamental economics, but you are right different goods respond differently to various kinds if stimulus and do do different countries. Strict gun laws have done nothing for California except prevent normal people from being as armed as criminals. I have to jump through hoops to own a fire arm whike the gang member just buys it.

Edited December 11, 2013 by White Crane Feather

[aztek]

you know nothing about my imagination, so let's keep that out of our conversation shall we?

sure i do, you show it to everyone with yours "many gun owners are overly violent" crap, and no lets not keep it out, it is the reason we have this conversation in a first place.

becouse someone with wild imagination thinks most gun owners are crazy blood thirsty sickos.

[Sweetpumper]

once again, with a heavy sigh, this is an opinion based on what I read and hear from many gun owners here and elsewhere, especially when they are being passionate about their right to bear arms. they will often use their right to protect family etc as a justification to express themselves aggressively with regard to what they would do to anyone who would DARE to come at them.

How exactly would you handle someone breaking into your home? "Not aggressively"? Especially if they DARED to come at you?

[JGirl]

How exactly would you handle someone breaking into your home? "Not aggressively"? Especially if they DARED to come at you?

you are just not paying attention to what i'm saying. you are not reading it or something I dunno what the problem is at your end but you are not getting it

I am not referring to not taking action. i'm referring to going on and on about how much you would enjoy destroying another person and going into great detail as to how you would go about it, using the most shocking and sinister methods of getting your point across. that has absolutely nothing to do with protecting yourself or family. that to me is overthetop aggression. get it or don't get it, but stop looking for an argument in my comments. there isn't one.

[JGirl]

sure i do, you show it to everyone with yours "many gun owners are overly violent" crap, and no lets not keep it out, it is the reason we have this conversation in a first place.

becouse someone with wild imagination thinks most gun owners are crazy blood thirsty sickos.

someone with a wild imagination has much more interesting things to say than what I have said here i'm sure lol

I never used the word most. I never said overly violent. I also never used the term blood thirsty crazy sickos. you seem to be the one using your imagination lol

Edited December 11, 2013 by JGirl

[Sweetpumper]

you are just not paying attention to what i'm saying. you are not reading it or something I dunno what the problem is at your end but you are not getting it

I am not referring to not taking action. i'm referring to going on and on about how much you would enjoy destroying another person and going into great detail as to how you would go about it, using the most shocking and sinister methods of getting your point across. that has absolutely nothing to do with protecting yourself or family. that to me is overthetop aggression. get it or don't get it, but stop looking for an argument in my comments. there isn't one.

No one would enjoy destroying another person. You must be having discussions with psychopaths with sinister and shocking thoughts. You should probably stay away from people like that.

[JGirl]

No one would enjoy destroying another person. You must be having discussions with psychopaths with sinister and shocking thoughts. You should probably stay away from people like that.

yes I do try. and you're right I do not believe that those who go on about this stuff would actually do it. that's part of the ridiculousness of it in the first place. but there is no denying that some will talk about it with great pleasure. I've seen it often on forums and likely so have you.

[aztek]

someone with a wild imagination has much more interesting things to say than what I have said here i'm sure lol

I never used the word most. I never said overly violent. I also never used the term blood thirsty crazy sickos. you seem to be the one using your imagination lol

this is yours below

gun related whatever on this site and so many others to see how aggressive some people can be. it's not enough to protect their homes, their families. they want to annihilate that intruder. they want to shoot that guy's balls off, they want to tear him limb from limb cut him a new hole etc etc. bleed him out slowly, make him suffer. blah blah blah,.

that is over the top.

i may use different words, but meaning stayed the same.

Edited December 11, 2013 by aztek

[JGirl]

this is yours below

gun related whatever on this site and so many others to see how aggressive some people can be. it's not enough to protect their homes, their families. they want to annihilate that intruder. they want to shoot that guy's balls off, they want to tear him limb from limb cut him a new hole etc etc. bleed him out slowly, make him suffer. blah blah blah,.

that is over the top.

i may use different words, but meaning stayed the same.

no the meaning does not stay the same.

use my words or don't bother.

[aztek]

especially funny how you b...ch and moan about kids talking crap, on the net, yet your own avatar says "don't make me kill you" effing hilarious. i bet you think it is a just a joke, yet you get scared of similar jokes by others.

lmao. hypocracy at its finest.

[Sweetpumper]

I've seen it often on forums and likely so have you.

Everyone is internet tough guy on forums.