Roanoke.................

[Myles]

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/12/10/technology-has-unearthed-new-clues-that-may-solve-mystery-lost-roanoke-colony/?intcmp=features

Seems like they are greasping at straws a little bit. However, it's nice to see that the investigation is ongoing.

Myself, I think they were attacked and killed.

[Keel M.]

I think there will always be explanations people come up with and just as many people dissatisfied with whatever explanation comes up.

[Skithia]

I seems logical that if there was an island called Croatoan, that the word written was meant to tell the supply ship, if it ever arrived, where they had intended heading. That however still leaves you with why on earth they would go there. They were already starving as they hadnt adapted to the natural food supply and were reliant on supplies from back home - so why would they give up the one advantage they did have - well constructed houses - to go off to this Island?

[Ryinrea]

I seems logical that if there was an island called Croatoan, that the word written was meant to tell the supply ship, if it ever arrived, where they had intended heading. That however still leaves you with why on earth they would go there. They were already starving as they hadnt adapted to the natural food supply and were reliant on supplies from back home - so why would they give up the one advantage they did have - well constructed houses - to go off to this Island?

Thats the question isn't; Why would they go to this island, when they had the advantage? One small word carved into the tree bark, and no trace found of them anywhere as of, yet makes no sense. People leave some type of trace either by items, tracks, evidence of a fight ect... From, what records told us of the time it looked like they just got up one day and disappered in to thin air. The return party looked and found no evidence of a fight, and the word Croanton carved in too a tree. So why would they carve or even know, what the indians called the island?

[Piney]

There is a racially mixed "isolate community" that claims to be their descendants called Croatoan Indians. I have more info somewhere but Jaylemurph is more familiar with them than I am

[Ryinrea]

There is a racially mixed "isolate community" that claims to be their descendants called Croatoan Indians. I have more info somewhere but Jaylemurph is more familiar with them than I am

I remember reading something like this too, I too am not very familiar with this group.

[Myles]

I seems logical that if there was an island called Croatoan, that the word written was meant to tell the supply ship, if it ever arrived, where they had intended heading. That however still leaves you with why on earth they would go there. They were already starving as they hadnt adapted to the natural food supply and were reliant on supplies from back home - so why would they give up the one advantage they did have - well constructed houses - to go off to this Island?

That is a very good question. But there could have been reasons. Maybe it was decided that they would live with the Croatan Indian tribe. The Croatan believed in a "heaven and hell" in that their souls would go to a good place or a bad place after death. That tells me that it's more than just possible that they invited the colonists to join them.

Maybe the Croatan Indians were threatening the colony. Maybe they attacked.

[jaylemurph]

The map and patch on it are only news to groups of pinheads like the "First Colony Foundation", which is only made more obvious by the fact of its coverage by Fox "News." Everyone else has been aware of it since the 1930s, and anyone with pretensions to learn about the subject would be able to read about it "books" available in "libraries". But these people launch a press conference on the subject like they're the ones who made a discovery.

It's /extremely/ unlikely the Roanoke colony went to Hatteras or the natives there (or anywhere else): the last recorded incident of the colony before White left was them shooting members of that very tribe (who were bringing them baskets of food).

The patch is likely an acknowledgement that the colony failed and wasn't there any longer.

There's absolutely no reason not to take the word of the Powhatan tribe that straight up told the settlers of Jamestown they didn't fear the settlers, since they had killed the last group of English that came to Virginia. The only people who think there's some manner of mystery in the Outer Banks are people who don't know what they're talking about or are looking to sell you something.

They'd know the name of Crotoan as they knew all the other local names of the tribes, which were often as not the name given to the local geography, as with the Hatteras of Hatteras Island and the Roanoke of Roanoke Island.

And they'd leave no trace at all if they were killed and their remains disposed of the by the local natives. Which is almost certainly what happened. They were a small band of pushy, obnoxious English people who stole food from the native tribes regularly or forced the tribes to give them food. They English arrived too late to plant their own crops, so couldn't grow any (and besides, they weren't farming types. Most of them were city/village folk from Exeter and the SW of England with family ties to the court, so they were well-off enough not to be working in the fields). Roanoke Island wasn't a place where the natives stayed year round, anyway, because of the limited resources. This colony settled on the island because there were already houses and fortifications left by another attempted colony that failed because they starved for exactly the same reasons. /And/ that early colony managed to p*** off every tribe in the area by taking hostages and starting a battle over a silver cup the governor of the colony lied and said the natives had stolen.

The "lost" colony either starved to death, or -- far more likely -- got themselves killed in a surprise raid by any one of the local tribes. They got exactly what they deserve. The fact that it was the Dare County Chamber of Commerce who started this "lost" colony nonsense in the 1930s and convinced Paul Green to write a (terrible, racist) play about it is the only reason people think there's a mystery there.

(PIney: the group is called the Lumbees.)

--Jaylemurph

[Piney]

I understand the Lumbees were a hodge podge of the remaining Eastern Siouian Tribes. There was a group not connected to them calling themselves Croatoan that Speck indentified in the 1920's as "Tri-Racial Isolates" of unknown origin.

[Myles]

The map and patch on it are only news to groups of pinheads like the "First Colony Foundation", which is only made more obvious by the fact of its coverage by Fox "News." Everyone else has been aware of it since the 1930s, and anyone with pretensions to learn about the subject would be able to read about it "books" available in "libraries". But these people launch a press conference on the subject like they're the ones who made a discovery.

It's /extremely/ unlikely the Roanoke colony went to Hatteras or the natives there (or anywhere else): the last recorded incident of the colony before White left was them shooting members of that very tribe (who were bringing them baskets of food).

The patch is likely an acknowledgement that the colony failed and wasn't there any longer.

There's absolutely no reason not to take the word of the Powhatan tribe that straight up told the settlers of Jamestown they didn't fear the settlers, since they had killed the last group of English that came to Virginia. The only people who think there's some manner of mystery in the Outer Banks are people who don't know what they're talking about or are looking to sell you something.

They'd know the name of Crotoan as they knew all the other local names of the tribes, which were often as not the name given to the local geography, as with the Hatteras of Hatteras Island and the Roanoke of Roanoke Island.

And they'd leave no trace at all if they were killed and their remains disposed of the by the local natives. Which is almost certainly what happened. They were a small band of pushy, obnoxious English people who stole food from the native tribes regularly or forced the tribes to give them food. They English arrived too late to plant their own crops, so couldn't grow any (and besides, they weren't farming types. Most of them were city/village folk from Exeter and the SW of England with family ties to the court, so they were well-off enough not to be working in the fields). Roanoke Island wasn't a place where the natives stayed year round, anyway, because of the limited resources. This colony settled on the island because there were already houses and fortifications left by another attempted colony that failed because they starved for exactly the same reasons. /And/ that early colony managed to p*** off every tribe in the area by taking hostages and starting a battle over a silver cup the governor of the colony lied and said the natives had stolen.

The "lost" colony either starved to death, or -- far more likely -- got themselves killed in a surprise raid by any one of the local tribes. They got exactly what they deserve. The fact that it was the Dare County Chamber of Commerce who started this "lost" colony nonsense in the 1930s and convinced Paul Green to write a (terrible, racist) play about it is the only reason people think there's a mystery there.

(PIney: the group is called the Lumbees.)

--Jaylemurph

I'd argue that there is still a thread of mystery as we don't know for certain what happened to them. I believe they were all killed or taken in a raid.

[Ryinrea]

I'd argue that there is still a thread of mystery as we don't know for certain what happened to them. I believe they were all killed or taken in a raid.

They would've found traces of that but none were found if I am not mistaken.

[Piney]

They would've found traces of that but none were found if I am not mistaken.

Not necessarily if the bodies weren't interred. The acidic nature of Outer Coastal Plain is pretty brutal on organic remains. We find hardly any traces of the Swedish settlers here in New Jersey, We still can't find their forts and on one site the only evidence I collected was a "Swedish trade celt". which there has been only 2 found in the entire Delaware Valley including mine.

[Stardrive]

This might have had something to do with it.

Some light has been shed on this mystery by a group of scientists who used the rings of baldcypress trees (Taxodium distichum) to reconstruct the history of drought for this region. A drought reconstruction, stretching back to 1185, indicates that the most severe growing season drought and the most severe three year period of drought in 800 years coincided with the disappearance of the Roanoke Island Colonists.

Link

[Piney]

This might have had something to do with it.

Some light has been shed on this mystery by a group of scientists who used the rings of baldcypress trees (Taxodium distichum) to reconstruct the history of drought for this region. A drought reconstruction, stretching back to 1185, indicates that the most severe growing season drought and the most severe three year period of drought in 800 years coincided with the disappearance of the Roanoke Island Colonists.

Link

That the Eastern Seaboard was in a extreme drought during First Contact is common knowledge. The same drought has been recorded here by Herb Kraft.

edit: for spelling

Edited December 13, 2013 by Piney

[jaylemurph]

That drought would only have exacerbated the already substantial jerkiness of the English, which was the real problem.

I still don't get why people insist on calling this a mystery, unless they think tourists getting lost and mugged in Manhattan an equally insoluble mystery.

--Jaylemurph

[Stardrive]

No rain equals very little (or no) food. Know one knows for a fact if the drought caused thier dissapearance, but I'd say it was probably one the factors.

[Harte]

The "lost" colony either starved to death, or -- far more likely -- got themselves killed in a surprise raid by any one of the local tribes. They got exactly what they deserve. The fact that it was the Dare County Chamber of Commerce who started this "lost" colony nonsense in the 1930s and convinced Paul Green to write a (terrible, racist) play about it is the only reason people think there's a mystery there.

--Jaylemurph

I knew this thread was a Jaylemurph trap.

I had thought of trolling it out when you were missing, Jay. Just to see if it would draw you back in.

I mean, it's about time you explained what the hell happened to these people.

So, it was aliens, you say?

Harte

[jaylemurph]

No, I suspect in the near future my pique will drive me to invent time travel personally, so I can go back and throttle them all to death myself and then hide the bodies.

--Jaylemurph

[stereologist]

I thought I would attempt a ridiculous explanation.

There never was a colony. It was just a scam perpetrated as a tax write off.

[ShadowSot]

No, I suspect in the near future my pique will drive me to invent time travel personally, so I can go back and throttle them all to death myself and then hide the bodies.

--Jaylemurph

And thus we have an answer.

"Why are you doing this?"

"Because of internet $&*%$!"