Noah's Ark Was Round

[ShadowSot]

Floods around the world over the centuries is nothing unusual. it would not surprise me at all if there had been a flood, but like all other stories passed down through time, it gets exaggerated.

There are towns and villages beneath the seas, so floods on Earth is nothing new. But here we have a "story" which says it was a world thing........in those days they did not even know the world was round, let alone know what was happening around it.

Those towns under the sea have more to do with steady but slow rising of ocean levels, not sudden floods.

[freetoroam]

Those towns under the sea have more to do with steady but slow rising of ocean levels, not sudden floods.

Here are just a few:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_settlements_lost_to_floods_in_the_Netherlands

Sudden or not, its still a flood. It seems Noah had a warning well in time to build an ark, thats not a sudden flood, according to the novel they has time to get prepared for it.

During a sudden flood you do not have time to build an ark.

My point is, floods are not unusual, sudden or not.

[ShadowSot]

If the entire Earth was uniformly covered with water, would there be tides and storms? I would think storm action would be very limited because water temperature and changes over land would be less, right? I don't know much about meteorology. He could just bob around in his big round tub for 40 days like a cork.

A more pressing problem is that due to the amount of water on the planet, the atmosphere would be so full for water vapor it'd be impossible to breathe.

[ShadowSot]

Here are just a few:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_settlements_lost_to_floods_in_the_Netherlands

Sudden or not, its still a flood. It seems Noah had a warning well in time to build an ark, thats not a sudden flood, according to the novel they has time to get prepared for it.

During a sudden flood you do not have time to build an ark.

My point is, floods are not unusual, sudden or not.

Your link contains towns that are not so much underwater but completely destroyed by local floods. And these are due to the slowly increasing water levels being held of by dykes in many cases, which initiated the floods when they gave way.

Floods are marked as being a sudden event, not a slow generational raising of the waters.

[cormac mac airt]

Floods around the world over the centuries is nothing unusual. it would not surprise me at all if there had been a flood, but like all other stories passed down through time, it gets exaggerated.

There are towns and villages beneath the seas, so floods on Earth is nothing new. But here we have a "story" which says it was a world thing........in those days they did not even know the world was round, let alone know what was happening around it.

It wouldn't matter if they'd have actually meant their known world, as opposed to the entire globe, as there is no evidence in Mesopotamia of a flood sizeable enough to have been able to float a 220 ft. diameter tub on the waters. Many areas of the Tigris and Euphrates aren't even 220 feet wide. And the closest that any sizeable amount of water came to Mesopotamia was during a Marine Transgression which occurred from c.4000 BC - 3000 BC.

http://www.psu.edu/dept/liberalarts/sites/kennett/djkennett/pdf/Kennettetal2007__marine_transgression_smesopotamia.pdf

cormac

[freetoroam]

Your link contains towns that are not so much underwater but completely destroyed by local floods. And these are due to the slowly increasing water levels being held of by dykes in many cases, which initiated the floods when they gave way.

Floods are marked as being a sudden event, not a slow generational raising of the waters.

So was Noahs flood a sudden event?

A flood is a flood. The reason we build dams is to prevent flooding and we also have systems to control water levels.

As for not so much under water? settlements lost to floods in the Netherlands.

A flood is still a flood, just because there are different types does not make a difference to those who`s homes are beneath it.

[stereologist]

If the entire Earth was uniformly covered with water, would there be tides and storms? I would think storm action would be very limited because water temperature and changes over land would be less, right? I don't know much about meteorology. He could just bob around in his big round tub for 40 days like a cork.

Yes there would be tides and storms. Jupiter, and Saturn have storms and no solid surface. Hurricanes form over open water, not over a land/water interface. Storm waves can travel 10,000 miles. With no land in the way I'll bet they could travel around the world. According to the bible Noah was afloat about a year.

[JGirl]

how about we prove noah's ark existed, then decide what shape it was?

[questionmark]

how about we prove noah's ark existed, then decide what shape it was?

quite difficult, first we would have to determine which of the gazillions of flood myths it applies to, then we can start looking for it.

[Calibeliever]

Maybe this explains how he was able to fit the dinosaurs on board.

[Hawken]

Seems like I recall a documentary about the Epic of Gilgamesh where a character similar to the flood story of the bible

where this person put several small craft together to put his family and livestock on board because of a flood.

Only the flood was regional and not worldwide. Some think that the Hebrews adopted this story and embellished it.

[ShadowSot]

So was Noahs flood a sudden event?

A sudden rise of water that floods the entire earth in only 40 days? Yeah, that's pretty sudden.

A flood is a flood. The reason we build dams is to prevent flooding and we also have systems to control water levels.

As for not so much under water? settlements lost to floods in the Netherlands.

A flood is still a flood, just because there are different types does not make a difference to those who`s homes are beneath it.

'You are right, I am thinking of a flood as a sudden event, but that is nt necessarily the case. I mentally make a difference between something subsumed due to rising waters over the course of generations, and a sudden event like a damn burst or a overflowing river.

[psyche101]

Or whales, or corals for that matter.

According to one account I read, they survived through the water becoming brackish, which allowed for the survival of fish adapted to both saltwater and fresh water. And there are some that can live a short time in those conditions, but not very long.

Their response is that the animals then specialized to their specific habitats in a form of "micro-evolution."

Of course this doesn't explain corals, which are very slow growing and very sensitive to changes in temperature and saline levels.

How did they answer rising seas contaminating fresh water supplies with salt - and amphibians still existing?

[ShadowSot]

How did they answer rising seas contaminating fresh water supplies with salt - and amphibians still existing?

Amphibians were taken onto the ark, obviously.

[psyche101]

Amphibians were taken onto the ark, obviously.

Ahh right.

Damn that Noah got around didn't he, Giant Japanese Salamanders would have been a slippery customer for him!! And quite a walk to pick them up too I imagine.

[ShadowSot]

Ahh right.

Damn that Noah got around didn't he, Giant Japanese Salamanders would have been a slippery customer for him!! And quite a walk to pick them up too I imagine.

Well there's a few things they'll do to get around certain logistic issues. One, the animals came to Noah, god driven apparently.

And to take care of the sheer number of animals and bypassing what we know of genetics and speciation, they propose that only representatives of different kinds were taken. Kind is not really defined well, but basically they mean animals that resemble each other. These kinds then eventually became the different varieties of those animals we see today.

They also claim that in order to save space Noah only brought on board immature representatives of each kind. Which is problematic itself, since many animals young are still large, and over the course of a year would both grow exponentially and eat large quantities of food, not to mention that many animals require behaviors that have to be taught by their parents.

[psyche101]

Well there's a few things they'll do to get around certain logistic issues. One, the animals came to Noah, god driven apparently.

And to take care of the sheer number of animals and bypassing what we know of genetics and speciation, they propose that only representatives of different kinds were taken. Kind is not really defined well, but basically they mean animals that resemble each other. These kinds then eventually became the different varieties of those animals we see today.

They also claim that in order to save space Noah only brought on board immature representatives of each kind. Which is problematic itself, since many animals young are still large, and over the course of a year would both grow exponentially and eat large quantities of food, not to mention that many animals require behaviors that have to be taught by their parents.

That would make the Japanese, and Chinese for that matter, Freshwater Giant Salamander the Devils work? Devil incarnate?

Edited December 17, 2013 by psyche101

[ShadowSot]

That would make the Japanese, and Chinese for that matter, Freshwater Giant Salamander the Devils work? Devil incarnate?

Oh no, they'd be descendants of the original pair of animals that represented the salamander "kind." They allow for "micro-evolution."

[psyche101]

Oh no, they'd be descendants of the original pair of animals that represented the salamander "kind." They allow for "micro-evolution."

Hard to get the very Devil to accept responsibility for anything, no wonder they kicked him out of Heaven!!

This is the Devils work then?

Edited December 17, 2013 by psyche101

[ShadowSot]

Hard to get the very Devil to accept responsibility for anything, no wonder they kicked him out of Heaven!!

This is the Devils work then?

I don't remember all of the apologetics on fossils. The general one is that all fossils were laid down by the flood, the arrangement is due to certain animals sinking faster than others. Yep.

Or fossils just develop faster than science claims.

[docyabut2]

Seems like I recall a documentary about the Epic of Gilgamesh where a character similar to the flood story of the bible

where this person put several small craft together to put his family and livestock on board because of a flood.

Only the flood was regional and not worldwide. Some think that the Hebrews adopted this story and embellished it.

That documentary was more logical as to tying two barges together. Some times I think the writers of the Bible just wanted to glorifiy the ark of the convent and Noah`s ark. One ark was just a drum and the boat ark was just two reed barges put together with a canopy .

Edited December 17, 2013 by docyabut2

[highdesert50]

The flood myth is not limited to the Gilgamesh epic, but also appears in both North and South American native lore. So, for the sake of argument, I will make the assumption an event or events did occur. As to how this could occur in the Noah event, a possibility would be the formation of large lakes in the Scandinavian ice pack as the Pleistocene epoch ended some ten thousand years ago. As this ice sheet was nearly seven million sq km, three km thick, and reached latitude 48° N, a substantial quantity of water could have been released in the form of a massive jökulhlaup or glacial outburst flood, something we can still witness in places like Greenland. A glacial outburst flood of post-Pleistocene proportions, or perhaps even a tsunami or hurricane, could have produced a flood that affected the “world,” which at that time was probably measured in distances between known “cites.” As for a man and his family building a boat, why not, a Dutchman carpenter built a replica wooden boat in about three years.

[cormac mac airt]

The flood myth is not limited to the Gilgamesh epic, but also appears in both North and South American native lore. So, for the sake of argument, I will make the assumption an event or events did occur. As to how this could occur in the Noah event, a possibility would be the formation of large lakes in the Scandinavian ice pack as the Pleistocene epoch ended some ten thousand years ago. As this ice sheet was nearly seven million sq km, three km thick, and reached latitude 48° N, a substantial quantity of water could have been released in the form of a massive jökulhlaup or glacial outburst flood, something we can still witness in places like Greenland. A glacial outburst flood of post-Pleistocene proportions, or perhaps even a tsunami or hurricane, could have produced a flood that affected the “world,” which at that time was probably measured in distances between known “cites.” As for a man and his family building a boat, why not, a Dutchman carpenter built a replica wooden boat in about three years.

There are several problems with the assumption above, namely:

1) While multiple flood myths are not limited to the Gilgamesh Epic, there is no evidence of a singular flood myth that would be the origin of all other global flood myths.

2) The outburst of large lakes in the Scandinavian Ice Pack c.10,000 BP would have nothing to do with the Mesopotamian/Biblical accounts of the Great Flood as said accounts, due to the descriptions within those very accounts, would put any such event in the general timeframe of the 3rd millenium BC.

3) Scientists have at this point a pretty good idea of how fast the sea level has risen within the last 10,000 years and while such events were catastrophic within a geological timeframe, they were easily avoidable, for the most part, on a human/societal timescale. For instance, such events as the outburst of Glacial Lake Agassiz-Ojibway took several years to happen.

cormac

[ShadowSot]

2) The outburst of large lakes in the Scandinavian Ice Pack c.10,000 BP would have nothing to do with the Mesopotamian/Biblical accounts of the Great Flood as said accounts, due to the descriptions within those very accounts, would put any such event in the general timeframe of the 3rd millenium BC.

Can we really use the internal dating of the accounts to come to their date of origin though? We're talking about a cultural myth, not an actual historical account.

[docyabut2]

Tablet 11: Utnapishtim tells Gilgamesh the story of the flood. The gods decided to flood the world and destroy all the people, but the god Ea told Utnapishtim to build a boat big enough for his family and the animals. The boat was to be covered with pitch and bitumen. Utnapishtim, his family, the craftsmen who built the boat, and many animals entered the boat. The rains lasted six (or possibly seven) days, killing all the other people. The boat landed on a mountain, and Utnapishtim released a dove, a swallow, and a raven before opening the door and letting everyone out. Enlil, who created the flood, was livid that there were survivors, but Ishtar and Ea condemned Enlil. Enlil gave Utnapishtim and his wife eternal life

The Hebrews and other cultures believing in only one god and many that believe in many other gods may have created their own stories of merchants who was caught in floods,and of the god`s destructions

Edited December 18, 2013 by docyabut2