Cool Perpetual Motion Machines

[penny_075]

Let's not forget entropy in this discussion (if it hasn't been mentioned before). I'm wondering if dark energy could be considered perpetual motion. Also, the creation and destruction of virtual particles. In relation to that, since Heisenberg's uncertainty principle states that the lowest possible energy of free space always has some positive value (vacuum energy). I suppose space itself is a perpetual machine.

Dark energy the stuff that's scientist say is expanding space and the universe. You pose a very good question. Is the expansion of space perpetual.

lets look at it from the point of view of our great scientist and physics who believes in big bang.in which I personally profoundly disagree with

So its widely known most people that believe in big bang believe the energy release from the big bang is quantifiable with a finite magnitude and it spread a finite amount of matter through out space they also believe it expanded space and space is still expanding due to its finite creation of dark energy (all of this from this finite energy source). If this is true then it has to mean this finite source of energy that created space should only have the potential to create a finite amount of space in relation to is creation of a finite amount of dark energy. So one could conclude that our great scientist who publish elaborate papers would have us to believe our universe is like water spilled on a table, it will expand so far then stop expanding because the force expanding it is finite which is ridicules

so to sum it up if you agree with modern day science and believe in big bang, then the answer is no space is not a perpetual machine.

if your rational then you know humans who existed a few hundred thousand years whom of which are just now able to understand some of their surroundings then the answer is yes space is a perpetual motion machine relative to what we have currently observed

[penny_075]

I've read that even a object moving in a pure vacuum and no gravity will eventually run down to a stop as quantum fluctuations and random photons, will eventually create drag on it.

I think he's talking about space itself its expanding exponentially.

[StarMountainKid]

If the energy of dark energy is constant for every cubic volume of space, I would think the effect on dark energy will be constant no matter how expanded the space of the universe becomes. In other words, 1 cm^3 of space will always contain the same amount of the expansion energy of dark matter, even when the universe has expanded to a million times larger than it is today.

Just my thought.

[penny_075]

If the energy of dark energy is constant for every cubic volume of space, I would think the effect on dark energy will be constant no matter how expanded the space of the universe becomes. In other words, 1 cm^3 of space will always contain the same amount of the expansion energy of dark matter, even when the universe has expanded to a million times larger than it is today.

Just my thought.

Do you believe that the expansion will occur in perpetuity or forever?

[StarMountainKid]

Do you believe that the expansion will occur in perpetuity or forever?

I don't know, of course, I'm just speculating. Dark energy seems to be a constant force right now, but in the far future it may dissipate or even become attractive, according to Wikipedia. I would say no one knows, these are speculations as well, although more learned than mine.

[penny_075]

DieChecker

You were right I would have to supply a significant volume of water back into the outer coulombs = to the water lost = volume of the spheres its lost during each cycle so it has to be added back in each cycle.. you can find any more flaws please let me know

[Akhil gyro]

Hi guys I'm new to this blog I'm interested in PPM related topics and I would like to share my idea on PPM actually it is not a PPM(perpetual motion machine) probably they not may possible due to the thermodynamic laws and you have to judge my idea because I don't know weather it exactly work and here is the pic of my idea, the water in the above vessel1 is allowed to flow into the second vessel2 there increase the pressure on both water and air at the same time so the increase in pressure at vessel2 due to the increase in pressure at vessel2 the water get compressed and shoot up than original datam it is the actual idea of my model so the question is does it works help me 

Edited April 15, 2017 by Akhil gyro
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[Rlyeh]

I don't think that would work, the air pressure would stop water flowing from vessel 1 to 2 even before there is enough pressure to force it out.

[Akhil gyro]

Tanks for replying me rlyeh that's helpful 

[bmk1245]

41 minutes ago, Akhil gyro said:

new to this blog I'm interested in PPM related topics and I would like to share my idea on PPM actually it is not a PPM(perpetual motion machine) probably they not may possible due to the thermodynamic laws and you have to judge my idea because I don't know weather it exactly work and here is the pic of my idea, the water in the above vessel1 is allowed to flow into the second vessel2 there increase the pressure on both water and air at the same time so the increase in pressure at vessel2 due to the increase in pressure at vessel2 the water get compressed and shoot up than original datam it is the actual idea of my model so the question is does it works help me 

PPM kinda is perpetual potion machine. Anyway, build your PPM (PMM), and then share your results.

[aquatus1]

54 minutes ago, Akhil gyro said:

Hi guys I'm new to this blog I'm interested in PPM related topics and I would like to share my idea on PPM actually it is not a PPM(perpetual motion machine) probably they not may possible due to the thermodynamic laws and you have to judge my idea because I don't know weather it exactly work and here is the pic of my idea, the water in the above vessel1 is allowed to flow into the second vessel2 there increase the pressure on both water and air at the same time so the increase in pressure at vessel2 due to the increase in pressure at vessel2 the water get compressed and shoot up than original datam it is the actual idea of my model so the question is does it works help me 

The sideways U in Vessel 2 is kind of redundant, in that all it really is is an extension of the entire vessel 2.  In other words, to the water and the air pressure, it doesn't make a difference that that part of vessel 2 is in a tube or in the main container; the air pressure and the water pressure are still going to be at the same pressure, so it may as well be one single container.  In order for water to come out the sideways tube, the pressure in the main vessel would have to be lower than the pressure in the tube, but there is no reason for the pressure to be different.

[Derek Willis]

I wonder why it is that whenever anyone comes up with an alleged perpetual motion machine they are happy to use Newton's laws of motion to support their claim, but totally ignore Clausius/Thomson's laws of thermodynamics which explain why the machine won't work. 

Edited April 15, 2017 by Derek Willis

[+DieChecker]

I've seen people suggest similar set ups for how the Egyptians got stones up to the top of the pyramids. The physics of it just doesn't work though.

Your up flow pipe is only going to lift the water as far as the down flow pipe has head pressure. So basically, it will only go as high as the surface of the water in the top tank. And then there will be no further movement. Dropping the up flow pipe below the level of the surface of the water will also (without external energy applied) result in equalization/balance, and thus again, no water movement.

If you did somehow get the water flowing down and back up, like you said, eventually friction drag and the laws of thermodynamics would sap energy from the system and eventually cause it to stop. 

[Akhil gyro]

To Die checker >>

sir, actually I inspired by this model which I mentioned below which flows continuously but not perpetual so,my model works on same principle, the pressure on both water and air will acts at the same time thus their will be rise in pressure in vessels2 so I'm thinking that there will be continuously  the pressure will act in vessels2 and pushes water up if my thinking is wrong please explain me the actual working of the model which I mentioned recently 

[ChrLzs]

9 hours ago, Akhil gyro said:

To Die checker >>

sir, actually I inspired by this model which I mentioned below which flows continuously but not perpetual so,my model works on same principle, the pressure on both water and air will acts at the same time thus their will be rise in pressure in vessels2 so I'm thinking that there will be continuously  the pressure will act in vessels2 and pushes water up if my thinking is wrong please explain me the actual working of the model which I mentioned recently 

It flows continuously but not perpetually, does it?   I understand that English may not be your first language but I don't see how any translation of that could make sense. Do you mean that because of level differences (ie the simple fact that there is potential energy from gravity (ie the water is able to flow downwards), it simply flows until everything is 'levelled'?  Then surely you must understand that YOU provided that potential energy, and the system is simply using YOUR energy until everything balances?  

Anyway, build it and show us a video.  You have already been told why it won't work - if you didn't understand it back when you went to school and covered such things, you won't get it now.

And if you can't be bothered to build that which you believe will give you free energy.... well, that is a bit lazy, isn't it?

 

Edited April 18, 2017 by ChrLzs
Revised harsh comments, sorry, Aq - grumpy mood today..

[aquatus1]

Tone it down a bit.  He is being polite and asking questions.

[Frank Merton]

Please forgive my inserting an irrelevancy into this, but it may make the skepticism easier to understand.  I think the only perpetual motion machine possible (and maybe not even here) is the universe taken as a whole.  Keep in mind perpetual motion implies free lunch, and the universe does seem to be a free lunch (all the "conserved" phenomena known -- energy, electric charge, momentum and rotational momentum -- of the universe all appear to sum to zero).

The only way one might build such a machine seems to me if one were to find a way to subtract entropy from a closed system.  Hard if not impossible to see how that might be possible.

[Tatetopa]

On 12/18/2013 at 7:00 AM, the-Unexpected-Soul said:

i'm thinking that if we combine many technics into one machine, it might actually work efficiently

Many bad ideas chained together do not make one good idea.  

[ChrLzs]

13 hours ago, Akhil gyro said:

To Die checker >>

sir, actually I inspired by this model which I mentioned below which flows continuously but not perpetual so,my model works on same principle, the pressure on both water and air will acts at the same time thus their will be rise in pressure in vessels2 so I'm thinking that there will be continuously  the pressure will act in vessels2 and pushes water up if my thinking is wrong please explain me the actual working of the model which I mentioned recently 

BTW, Akhil, I would be happy to give you a step by step analysis on what will happen for a given design of tanks and tubes and also explain why in very simple terms...  but I'm only happy to do it once, so choose well, and please provide a diagram that is legible.  You example is tiny and I cannot see the identifying letters, nor can I be sure whether all tanks are sealed, etc.

I'd also be interested in how you come to a design - do you build partial models?  If not, why not?  Is there some guiding logic in the design process, other than the fact that water will tend to flow downhill?  Do you understand potential versus kinetic energy?  Entropy?  The Laws of Thermodynamics?

 

 

Just out of interest, I used to run a marine science research centre, and it included a large area littered with aquaria and tanks of many, many sizes, and they were easy to interconnect with tubing for both water and air.  And you know what?  Everything always obeyed the laws of physics.  Sometimes in ways the students had not predicted.... in which case they had to clean up the aftermath and their homework was to tell me what mistakes they had made.. 

 

[+DieChecker]

On 4/17/2017 at 9:04 AM, Akhil gyro said:

To Die checker >>

sir, actually I inspired by this model which I mentioned below which flows continuously but not perpetual so,my model works on same principle, the pressure on both water and air will acts at the same time thus their will be rise in pressure in vessels2 so I'm thinking that there will be continuously  the pressure will act in vessels2 and pushes water up if my thinking is wrong please explain me the actual working of the model which I mentioned recently 

Well, first that is not what you first posted. Your drawing only had two tanks, not three. With three you can do things a little different. True, the two lower tanks are connected, but they don't have to be under the same pressure. In your first drawing, with one tank, it is all one pressure, and thus, if you dropped the return tube, the water would go down both. And since there is no pressure differential across the lower tank, in your example, the water will not shoot out, but will just go as high as the level of water in the top tank. 

Now, using three tanks, the pressure can be set to difference in all three tanks, and that can produce a different result.

Actually the three tank version, after a quick google check, is called a Heron's Fountain. I even found youtube videos on how to build one and how it works.

 

[Akhil gyro]

To Die checker >>

Sir what about this model, in the figure you see that two tanks but that pipe connecting between tank1 and tank2 which allows the water to the tank1 to tank2 with 'T' junction will acts as other tank and create pressure difference between tank1, tank2, and connected T -junction, so it works as same to the previous 3 tank herons fountain model 

Tanks in advance 

[aquatus1]

These last two models seem to hinge on the difference between the air pressure outside and the air pressure contained in the vessels.  The same air pressure pushing down on the water in tank in vessel 1 is pushing down on the straw, so all I can really see happening is the air in vessel 2 will get compressed until equilibrium is reached.

Effectively, it is acting as a water hammer arrestor used in plumbing to prevent banging on the pipes.