Angels have no wings

[Calibeliever]

I am as much fascinated by the fact that so many in human history have believed in their existence, as I am the actual nature of Angels. Having never experienced one myself I cannot speak for those who claim to have seen them. Much like the contemporary abduction phenomenon, I am intrigued by the psychological aspect as much as anything. The fact that so many believe is itself an amazing thing that warrants a further look.

[Star of the Sea]

Perhaps they don't have wings, but I believe there are angels.

I absolutely believe that there are angels too moonshadow60. I also believe that they can present themselves as humans but I also think they can be seen in the form of light. I know this because I think I may have had an encounter with one.

[Mr Walker]

I am as much fascinated by the fact that so many in human history have believed in their existence, as I am the actual nature of Angels. Having never experienced one myself I cannot speak for those who claim to have seen them. Much like the contemporary abduction phenomenon, I am intrigued by the psychological aspect as much as anything. The fact that so many believe is itself an amazing thing that warrants a further look.

I do not believe in anything. But I am logical enough to accept a reality which exists . I appreciate that parts of many phenomena are the product of human thought forms and psychology But I know, full well, that some are also built on real experiences with real beings and entities. I have encountered real ghosts and real angels but, for example, despite seeing many strange UFOS, I have never encountered a classic alien type. So I don't believe or disbelieve in them. I will wait until I met one before deciding. If that never happens it wont worry me much either way. Some people might believe in angels because other people, like me, relate their encounters with them. I am fascinated by accounts of alien sightings. I don't believe any of them but I do keep an open mind. I have no reason to disbelieve the stories of others, in that I tell the truth, and I have had many "unbelievable" experiences in my life, so why should I assume that others are liars.

[Metal Head]

I do not believe in anything. But I am logical enough to accept a reality which exists . I appreciate that parts of many phenomena are the product of human thought forms and psychology But I know, full well, that some are also built on real experiences with real beings and entities. I have encountered real ghosts and real angels but, for example, despite seeing many strange UFOS, I have never encountered a classic alien type. So I don't believe or disbelieve in them. I will wait until I met one before deciding. If that never happens it wont worry me much either way. Some people might believe in angels because other people, like me, relate their encounters with them. I am fascinated by accounts of alien sightings. I don't believe any of them but I do keep an open mind. I have no reason to disbelieve the stories of others, in that I tell the truth, and I have had many "unbelievable" experiences in my life, so why should I assume that others are liars.

You don't believe in anything but you just said you had personal accounts of angels. So you saw them but don't believe in them? You are a contradiction my friend. Angels are a creation of charlatans who percieved them as a valuable control mechanism and instituted them in an antiquated book (i.e. the bible) to control the ignorant masses. Talking snakes, living inside a whale, a supreme being appaearing in the form of a burning bush. Sorry that I am not gullible enough to believe such nonsensical idiocy. There is 0 scientific proof of any of it.

Edited December 24, 2013 by Metal Head

[Frank Merton]

I also try to distinguish between belief, which I try to avoid as cop-outs, and opinions, which I think are honest and which one can hold with varying degrees of confidence.

[highdesert50]

Angels are indeed with us. They hold open doors, smile when we are having a bad day, allow space to merge in heavy traffic ... No noticeable wings, but most noticeably empathetic, compassionate, and caring.

[Mr Walker]

You don't believe in anything but you just said you had personal accounts of angels. So you saw them but don't believe in them? You are a contradiction my friend. Angels are a creation of charlatans who percieved them as a valuable control mechanism and instituted them in an antiquated book (i.e. the bible) to control the ignorant masses. Talking snakes, living inside a whale, a supreme being appaearing in the form of a burning bush. Sorry that I am not gullible enough to believe such nonsensical idiocy. There is 0 scientific proof of any of it.

What one knows one cannot believe in. Belief is only possible in an area where we lack knowledge. For example I cant believe the earth is round or that I am not married because I know both to be true. Thus I can neither believe in them nor disbelieve in them. It is the same for angels I know they are real physical independent entities Thus there is no room for belief or disbelief about their existence. it would be like saying I believe my wife to be real.

You are wrong and your opinion is based on your lack of experience. I don't blame you for that. One can't know something until one experiences it for oneself. Angels are as real and physical as you are. I t is, perhaps, from real encounters with such beings by primitive peoples that many of the fanciful stories come. I can see the abilities of angels in terms of highly advanced technologies, but to primitive peoples it would seem just like magic, and so that is how they wrote about it. Ps if you look back through history you will find such encounters occurring long before Christianity or even Judaism was ever constructed.

Edited December 24, 2013 by Mr Walker

[Metal Head]

What one knows one cannot believe in. Belief is only possible in an area where we lack knowledge. For example I cant believe the earth is round or that I am not married because I know both to be true. Thus I can neither believe in them nor disbelieve in them. It is the same for angels I know they are real physical independent entities Thus there is no room for belief or disbelief about their existence. it would be like saying I believe my wife to be real.

You are wrong and your opinion is based on your lack of experience. I don't blame you for that. One can't know something until one experiences it for oneself. Angels are as real and physical as you are. I t is, perhaps, from real encounters with such beings by primitive peoples that many of the fanciful stories come. I can see the abilities of angels in terms of highly advanced technologies, but to primitive peoples it would seem just like magic, and so that is how they wrote about it. Ps if you look back through history you will find such encounters occurring long before Christianity or even Judaism was ever constructed.

I can't even begin to decipher the blatant contradictions in this rambling diatribe. You're trying to sound intelligent but you are failing miserably. We'll just agree to disagree and I'll happily leave you to ramble nonsensical contradictions and other things that you know are true but can't believe in. Yeah that makes sense.

[Almagest]

What one knows one cannot believe in. Belief is only possible in an area where we lack knowledge. For example I cant believe the earth is round or that I am not married because I know both to be true. Thus I can neither believe in them nor disbelieve in them. It is the same for angels I know they are real physical independent entities Thus there is no room for belief or disbelief about their existence. it would be like saying I believe my wife to be real.

You are wrong and your opinion is based on your lack of experience. I don't blame you for that. One can't know something until one experiences it for oneself. Angels are as real and physical as you are. I t is, perhaps, from real encounters with such beings by primitive peoples that many of the fanciful stories come. I can see the abilities of angels in terms of highly advanced technologies, but to primitive peoples it would seem just like magic, and so that is how they wrote about it. Ps if you look back through history you will find such encounters occurring long before Christianity or even Judaism was ever constructed.

What about the Platonic definition of knowledge; justified true belief? You believe that your experiences were real, and not a product of a misunderstanding or hallucination, don't you?

Angels are indeed with us. They hold open doors, smile when we are having a bad day, allow space to merge in heavy traffic ... No noticeable wings, but most noticeably empathetic, compassionate, and caring.

The power of a smile from a stranger cannot be overstated.

[hellig heilige]

The power of a smile from a stranger cannot be overstated.

Sounds sexy.

[Almagest]

Sounds sexy.

I've had a simple smile and a 'hey' turn into a sexual relationship before, so it sure can be. But I'm speaking generally, eye contact and a smile directed at a stranger can make them feel less isolated and can improve their mood. If that has a snowball effect of good will then we only really need to be angelic towards one another a couple of times a day for it to be worth it.

[JGirl]

"angelologist"

I'm sorry but LOL!!

[Mr Walker]

I can't even begin to decipher the blatant contradictions in this rambling diatribe. You're trying to sound intelligent but you are failing miserably. We'll just agree to disagree and I'll happily leave you to ramble nonsensical contradictions and other things that you know are true but can't believe in. Yeah that makes sense.

LOL try learning how to read. Look up the definitions of knowledge and belief. One cannot hold a belief position (including disbelief) in something one knows to be true or false.

So I cannot believe my mother is dead because I know she is alive. BUT I cannot believe she is alive either because I KNOW she is alive. It would be illogical, and factually incorrect, for me to respond to the question, "Is your mother still alive?" with, "I believe she is. " when I know she is. It is really simple

[Mr Walker]

What about the Platonic definition of knowledge; justified true belief? You believe that your experiences were real, and not a product of a misunderstanding or hallucination, don't you?

The power of a smile from a stranger cannot be overstated.

The platonic c definition matches one of the modern definitions of knowledge ie second or third hand information in which we have faith For example I ' believe" the earth is 93 million miles form the sun because i put faith in the sources who tell me it is. This is justified true belief (As long as the experts haven't got the measurements wrong) But technically this is not knowledge. We can only know for certain that which we have personally verified through experience,observation and experimentation /measurement etc. I know my experience in life are real via observation, testing, measuring, interviewing witnesses etc. but alos given my established medical fitness and my tested powers of observation and perception I have no reason at all to doubt the accuracy of my experiences. Any of them, from the most common and mundane, to the most unusual.

All else is really faith based belief. It may be justified true belief, but then again it might not.

I read in the paper this week of a pensioner who (naturally) smiled at a pretty young girl while they were both getting petrol at a self service station. He walked into the cashier to find that she had paid his petrol bill as well as her own. There's hope for me yet.

[XenoFish]

I've died once and some luminous humanoid being shoved me back into my body. That's all I'm gonna say about angels. Not even sure it was an angel. Told me I had work to do here. Gave me some instruction which I've followed and all that was promised has manifested.

[Davros of Skaro]

I've died once and some luminous humanoid being shoved me back into my body. That's all I'm gonna say about angels. Not even sure it was an angel. Told me I had work to do here. Gave me some instruction which I've followed and all that was promised has manifested.

I would beat the Lumens out of that walking Light Bulb for trying to shove me back into this Zoo.

[Mr Walker]

I would beat the Lumens out of that walking Light Bulb for trying to shove me back into this Zoo.

That is sad. Life of any sort is better than the alternative, because with life there is always, hope and there are always choices and alternatives. From memory, non life was dead boring. While alive I have never had a moments boredom.

[ZaraKitty]

Aren't angels meant to be fiery heaven beasts with like 3 heads and 9 wings in bible?

[Calibeliever]

I do not believe in anything. But I am logical enough to accept a reality which exists . I appreciate that parts of many phenomena are the product of human thought forms and psychology But I know, full well, that some are also built on real experiences with real beings and entities. I have encountered real ghosts and real angels but, for example, despite seeing many strange UFOS, I have never encountered a classic alien type. So I don't believe or disbelieve in them. I will wait until I met one before deciding. If that never happens it wont worry me much either way. Some people might believe in angels because other people, like me, relate their encounters with them. I am fascinated by accounts of alien sightings. I don't believe any of them but I do keep an open mind. I have no reason to disbelieve the stories of others, in that I tell the truth, and I have had many "unbelievable" experiences in my life, so why should I assume that others are liars.

I wasn't commenting in this post on whether anyone's belief (or knowledge) was founded or not. In fact, in the above context, personal belief is irrelevant. What can't be denied, and what I find fascinating, is that there is such a large percentage of the population that believes in: Aliens/Ghosts/Angels/Leprechauns/[select favorite]. That in itself warrants someone asking why. The above post was in no way meant to offend anyone who believes in Angels. I have a few beliefs (or strong suspicions) myself in things that are, as yet, unproven.

As for where I stand personally on the existence of angels...? *shrug* I have heard some theories that resonate with me but, having never had a personal experience or seen credible evidence, I will sit quietly over here and wait to be convinced one way or the other.

Cheers

[Mr Walker]

I wasn't commenting in this post on whether anyone's belief (or knowledge) was founded or not. In fact, in the above context, personal belief is irrelevant. What can't be denied, and what I find fascinating, is that there is such a large percentage of the population that believes in: Aliens/Ghosts/Angels/Leprechauns/[select favorite]. That in itself warrants someone asking why. The above post was in no way meant to offend anyone who believes in Angels. I have a few beliefs (or strong suspicions) myself in things that are, as yet, unproven.

As for where I stand personally on the existence of angels...? *shrug* I have heard some theories that resonate with me but, having never had a personal experience or seen credible evidence, I will sit quietly over here and wait to be convinced one way or the other.

Cheers

And I was not upset I was trying to explain why people with no experience of such things might believe in them. One reason is that many people DO have physical experiences with such things. That makes them more open to belief in other forms of the paranormal and to the experiences of others.Second there is in human cognitive evolution a pre disposition to belief. Third when people like me tell truthful, consistent recollections, of our own experiences it allows people to form opinions . Lastly, belief offers comfort to some. To others it allows them to make a sense of a very chaotic and disordered world.

If you read up on the construction of belief in humans and also why people have religious beliefs due to the nature of human cognition, it will give you a big part of your answer.

[m namasivayam]

i visualize this during meditation. is it angel with wings?

[Davros of Skaro]

That is sad. Life of any sort is better than the alternative, because with life there is always, hope and there are always choices and alternatives. From memory, non life was dead boring. While alive I have never had a moments boredom.

I want full disclosure, and I know I will not get it here except for ramblings of the delusional.

[Mr Walker]

I want full disclosure, and I know I will not get it here except for ramblings of the delusional.

There is no such thing as full disclosure, or other absolutes, in the human world because of who and what we are as cognitive beings. Most of our reality exists within our mind as well as outside of it.

Every person lives within the same world/reality, yet makes of it very different outcomes for them selves.

As my mother pointed out to me when I was a few years old, we can chose the lenses through which we perceive and interpret the reality around us; and hence grief and joy are both possible choices to a person from one single event in their life, such as the death of a loved one, or the loss of everything one owns. Perhaps some people are delusional (what ever that means, when physical reality cannot be known for certain) It is always sad when any human being decides that death is better than the life they live, although I respect that decision and the persons right to choose for themselves. ( I am a advocate of voluntary euthanasia for informed adults, who are capable of making a competent decision. )

With a little help, most people can learn to see the joy and beauty in any life, and be shown how to make the most of a situation, even one where a person is born without any limbs, or living on a garbage tip..

But you cannot know that all you will find here are the ramblings of the delusional, or which people are delusional and which are not. You are simply allowing a disbelief, chosen for some purpose of your own, to colour everything you see about the world.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Mr Walker

[Davros of Skaro]

There is no such thing as full disclosure, or other absolutes, in the human world because of who and what we are as cognitive beings. Most of our reality exists within our mind as well as outside of it.

Every person lives within the same world/reality, yet makes of it very different outcomes for them selves.

As my mother pointed out to me when I was a few years old, we can chose the lenses through which we perceive and interpret the reality around us; and hence grief and joy are both possible choices to a person from one single event in their life, such as the death of a loved one, or the loss of everything one owns. Perhaps some people are delusional (what ever that means, when physical reality cannot be known for certain) It is always sad when any human being decides that death is better than the life they live, although I respect that decision and the persons right to choose for themselves. ( I am a advocate of voluntary euthanasia for informed adults, who are capable of making a competent decision. )

With a little help, most people can learn to see the joy and beauty in any life, and be shown how to make the most of a situation, even one where a person is born without any limbs, or living on a garbage tip..

But you cannot know that all you will find here are the ramblings of the delusional, or which people are delusional and which are not. You are simply allowing a disbelief, chosen for some purpose of your own, to colour everything you see about the world.

At first a thick chain is needed to keep a mighty Elephant, then after some years only a rope is needed.

You want to run back to the Yoke, and be greatfull then that's on you.

[Mr Walker]

At first a thick chain is needed to keep a mighty Elephant, then after some years only a rope is needed.

You want to run back to the Yoke, and be greatfull then that's on you.

A person who accurately knows/understands them self, their universe, and their connection to that universe, is as free as any human can be. I have absolutely no constraints upon myself, except those I place on my self because of who I chose to be and how I choose to relate to my world and those around me.

Not only am I not in chains, even ones I am not aware of, but no chain exists which can hold "me' to it, because I can remake/remake any chain into anything else of my choosing. "I" cannot be imprisoned because one can walk out through walls which are not really walls at all, except in a person's mind. Human beings are not elephants in that we are more self aware, and much more cognitive, beings. An elephant cannot slip its chains, as a human being can, through the application of mind.