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Uncle Sam

Obama Total Disregard Congress or Consitution

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spacecowboy342

Not every budget increases military spending, every war does.

http://www.washingto...g-sequester.jpg

Or every republican presidency. We are spending more now than during the cold war. This is madness

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Yamato

Welcome to forcing Americans to pay 1500 dollars for a 30 inch flatscreen.

IOW, welcome to losing the next election.

Harte

You'd have to demonstrate that his idea is represented by the party establishment, and it's not. You'd also have to show a difference between one platform and the other, but there isn't one. You'd also have to explain how people are so sensitive to TV prices when they're not for energy, health care, education, and military. All of these sectors are severely inflationary and wasteful. One party obediently props up its assigned spending sprees, the other props up theirs.

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Yamato

Or every republican presidency.

No, that chart shows that's not true either. Eisenhower lowered spending after Truman raised it. Nixon lowered spending after Johnson raised it. There's no salvation from military spending drawn on party lines at all.

We are spending mad money on military, and Obama's spending cuts are disapproved of by the conservative establishment. Take Mitt Romney in 2012, he wasn't suggesting any spending cuts in the final days of the election, he was complaining about Obama's spending cuts.

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Gamrat

WOW! Thanks for the BS post on a total BS topic! You hypocrites make me laugh! Ok... please site actual examples of when the constitution was p***ed on... and don't give me more BS... When you look at facts rather than opinion the world makes much more sense.

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Babe Ruth

Military spending does prop up a lot of companies and pay a lot of salaries.

If you are going to allow manufacturing to leave this country and do nothing about it, the economy needs SOMETHING to be made or processed here, other wise there will be no jobs.

You have no idea how many livelihoods are effected by defense spending, for better or worse. Spend it there or spend it on more unemployment.... unless you fix the manufacturing problem

True, dat!

But the question soon becomes something like : do we really need to spend more money on the military than the next 5 or 10 countries in the world do, combined?

At what point does military spending become unnecessary and wasteful?

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Neognosis

It is already unnecessary and wasteful.

But no congressman wants to be the one who let a thousand people in his district lose their jobs because the contract on some outdated tank that we don't use or need was canceled by congress, and there's a company there that makes a sprocket or gear for it. So, it's more complicated in our american process than just to do things that make sense.

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Babe Ruth

To be sure, SOME military spending is crucial. I'm all for a strong military, but one that operates STRICTLY within the rule of law as defined by the US Constitution.

For most of my life, this country and its government has been involved in some kind of illegitimate and undeclared war or the other. That's what Ike was warning against, and that is what we have today.

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Sir Wearer of Hats

Or every republican presidency. We are spending more now than during the cold war. This is madness

Umm.... isn't Obama a Democrat?

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spacecowboy342

Umm.... isn't Obama a Democrat?

Yeah, but this is a special case. No other president had to deal with such an obstructionist do-nothing congress that has refused to even pass a budget in what? 4 years or so? Which makes the OP kind of ironic. What has congress actually done for Obama to disregard? They actually had to change the rules in the senate just to get votes on appointees. The republicans' only mission seems to be makes sure nothing gets done. At this they are succeeding

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Yamato

The market loves getting nothing done then, if that's what it is. And based on the size of the debt and deficits, it's a whole lotta nothing, too.

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Neognosis
The republicans' only mission seems to be makes sure nothing gets done. At this they are succeeding

Right.

So, which is more an offense... Obama's "disregard" for congress, or congress' disregard for the american people?

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ninjadude

No legislation in the past granted as much discretion to the Secretary (namely) and the President (by proxy) that could have been addressed in the bill itself.

554 Billion yearly to the DOD and the sec of Defense?

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Babe Ruth

Yeah, but this is a special case. No other president had to deal with such an obstructionist do-nothing congress that has refused to even pass a budget in what? 4 years or so? Which makes the OP kind of ironic. What has congress actually done for Obama to disregard? They actually had to change the rules in the senate just to get votes on appointees. The republicans' only mission seems to be makes sure nothing gets done. At this they are succeeding

Note that the OP specifies "congress or constitution". :tu:

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Harte

Yeah, but this is a special case. No other president had to deal with such an obstructionist do-nothing congress that has refused to even pass a budget in what? 4 years or so?

Oh, well then, a "special case" for Obama, then!

Please. Your argument about a budget shoots your own idea down.

The Republicans can't pass a budget in the Senate. They're the minority.

The House has passed a budget every year. The Senate never even took up the process in those years you're talking about.

Harte

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spacecowboy342

Oh, well then, a "special case" for Obama, then!

Please. Your argument about a budget shoots your own idea down.

The Republicans can't pass a budget in the Senate. They're the minority.

The House has passed a budget every year. The Senate never even took up the process in those years you're talking about.

Harte

Maybe the gerrymandered house should take a lesson by this and pass something that can be agreed to by both sides. This is the political process, not continually insisting on getting your own way in hopes of wearing down the opposition. The senate can't take up the process. By the constitution all money bills originate in the house. The conservatives need to get a grip and realize they aren't running the show any more and stop trying to hijack the government from the house

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Harte

Really?

When did the Democrats ever do this?

Why should the Republicans cede their values to those of the Democrats who verbally and on television absolutely refused to negotiate anything at all with them?

Harte

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spacecowboy342

Really?

When did the Democrats ever do this?

Why should the Republicans cede their values to those of the Democrats who verbally and on television absolutely refused to negotiate anything at all with them?

Harte

Seriously? Do you think this is the first time we have had a different majority in each house of congress? I promise you it isn't. And yet before Obama's presidency they always manged to come up with a budget compromise. The republican leadership determined from the start they would do everything they could to undermine his presidency. They have admitted this. The republican's idea of negotiation is for dems to give in to all their demands. Repubs need to stop believing their own propaganda spoonfed to the public by Fox news and understand the poor and middle class are tired of kow towing to the rich. The Koch brothers don't own everyone

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Harte

Is see.

So to your mind, it is the Republican party's duty to rubber-stamp every Democrat bill. And please, don't open your mouth to make a single peep while doing so.

Harte

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spacecowboy342

Is see.

So to your mind, it is the Republican party's duty to rubber-stamp every Democrat bill. And please, don't open your mouth to make a single peep while doing so.

Harte

Absolutely not. Perish the thought. The repubs do control one house of congress and so have enough political clout to force concessions. But to continuously keep trying to pass the same thing again and again without compromise is just childish. How many times did they do this with Obamacare? 40?50? I forget now the exact number, but what was the purpose? And what purpose, in the senate to filibuster more appointees than in the history of the country? Even Tip O'Neil at the height of his power worked with the repubs. I didn't agree with a lot of the policies of the elder George Bush but I long for the days when republicans like that who at least had some sense had some say.

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Harte

Where was this bipartisanship when the Congress rammed through the ACA without one iota of compromise, disparaging Republican suggestions and concerns as "pushing granny over the cliff"?

One question is, when does entitlement reform get even a hearing? Will we wait until we can no longer make the payments and then cut everyone back?

Harte

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spacecowboy342

Where was this bipartisanship when the Congress rammed through the ACA without one iota of compromise, disparaging Republican suggestions and concerns as "pushing granny over the cliff"?

One question is, when does entitlement reform get even a hearing? Will we wait until we can no longer make the payments and then cut everyone back?

Harte

When they rammed ACA through they had majorities in both houses of congress. Does majority rule mean nothing anymore in your world?

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Neognosis
Where was this bipartisanship when the Congress rammed through the ACA without one iota of compromise, disparaging Republican suggestions and concerns as "pushing granny over the cliff"?

ARE YOU KIDDING?

If the ACA fails, it will be because it is NOTHING BUT COMPROMISE.

What we need is a single payer system.

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Sir Wearer of Hats

ARE YOU KIDDING?

If the ACA fails, it will be because it is NOTHING BUT COMPROMISE.

What we need is a single payer system.

Nah, what you need is the government to get involved as a Health Care provider in the Health Care Provision market, one of the players.

Once upon a time here in Oz, we had a government run bank. It went gangbusters until everyone whinged about it affecting competition (because they didn't (couldn't IIRC) charge interest on loans, everyone was getting loans from them and so on) and it was privatised. Anyway, that's what you need, a government health care provider. Cheap, easily accessible health care but as one of the players in the market rather then trying to control the market.

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Harte

When they rammed ACA through they had majorities in both houses of congress. Does majority rule mean nothing anymore in your world?

Shoe on the other foot. Ever heard of it?

I thought you were claiming that compromise is to be desired. Do you now assert that compromise is not desireable when you have a majority in both houses?

Harte

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Gromdor

I think one of the problems is the fact that congress isn't doing anything, so Obama just steps in and does what he wants.

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