Atheistic Agnosticism

[Awake2Chaos]

Agnostic atheists are atheistic because they do not hold a belief in the existence of any deity and agnostic because they claim that the existence of a deity is either unknowable in principle or currently unknown in fact.

http://en.wikipedia....gnostic_atheism ~ not a huge fan of wiki, but in this case the definition is pretty accurate.

I used to be Christian.

Then I started reading. And reading, and learning.

And I found too many inconsistencies to adhere to the belief system anymore.

I have always been science-minded. I have a degree in radiologic science. So I understand the concept of believing in something that you can not see (x-rays). But something about religion never 'felt' right to me. Mostly because there was always an answer. If I asked a question...there was never an answer of.....I don't know...or....we can't tell you that.

And that grated against the scientist in me.

I'm not saying that science is infallible by any means. Some scientists refuse to give consideration to things that can not be measured, like the soul, or spiritual activity (aside from the paranormal investigative-type measurements, like EVPs, etc). (And I know that souls can not be measured, HOWEVER, I believe exist due to MY OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.)

But what it ended up boiling down to for me is that...every religious book we have has been penned by man. And the stories in them, are generally re-purposed from an era that preceeded it. Borrowed, by men. Christianity = lots of re-purposed Pagan holidays, etc.

And no one can prove OR disprove the existence of God. And I seriously doubt that any book man has written over the eons has even come close to capturing his essence, IF he/she/it/them is really out there.

So I guess what I wanted to accomplish with this thread is to see if any believers can tell me what religion or a belief in God brings to their life, and why they have made the choice to follow a creed/religion.....

And I would love to hear from my fellow atheistic agnostics as to why they do not ascribe to any religion, and what led them to that belief. (Or as some would argue, a lack of it,)

Be prepared to debate a bit. My intention is to make you think about why it is you follow what you follow.....

[Likely Guy]

Hello again, Chaos (again, a strange saying).

I'm what's known as either an indifferent or apathetic agnostic. I prefer the term, 'indifferent'.

I have never claimed to say that there is, or is not, God. I feel that it's simply not my place to claim one way or the other. If God is, or is not, I think that it'll have no bearing on my existance, in this life or the possible promise of a 'next'.

I live my life the best that I can make it, for me and those around me (to be fair, honest, inclusive, helpful...) If there is no God, it makes no difference. If there is a God, it still makes no difference. I'll still continue along the same path.

Science, is observable. God is not. That doesn't mean that the two are diametrically opposed. They're just 'different'.

[+Paranoid Android]

Hi,

I'm a Christian and have been one for the past fourteen years, ever since I converted to Christianity as a 19-year old young adult studying at university. And while it is fair to conclude that my beliefs have "all the answers" when it comes to the important matters of theology, there are still many things in my beliefs, both in theology and in simple day-to-day life experience where the only honest answer I can give is "I don't know". There are several reasons for this. Sometimes the Bible simply doesn't address it, and we're left to infer what God may want based on unrelated biblical concepts. Whatever the case, I don't think it's accurate to say that I (or the church I attend) has all the answers. In fact, if I went to a church and the pastor stood up and said "I/We/The Church has all the answers and we are right, and if you disagree then you're wrong", then I would leave and never come back. They are just human beings. They are not divine representatives of God, inspired with all the Truth. They are fallible and prone to error, just as I am. The last church I attended, if I disagreed with the pastor, I'd talk to him afterwards and share my views backed up by my reading of the Bible. He'd then share his side. Sometimes he'd change my mind. Sometimes (less frequently) the pastor would actually change his mind. The most common conclusion, however, was that we both agreed that the context of our interpretation was valid, but because it was not essential to salvation, it was ok to differ in opinion on this.

In any case, I hope you find what you're looking for in your atheistic agnosticism. Best of luck

~ Regards, PA

[Nighthawk9653]

I was brought up in religion, but I'm like you now. I don't like how they have an answer for everything Except the things you have a question about. I don't like them telling me what's going to happen to me, and what I should do. I still semi believe in my old religion, like in the main concepts, but I don't follow the religion. I have many other beliefs, but they aren't a religion.

I don't know how to explain it.. I still consider myself having a religion, but I don't like what the church teaches and what they say I must do. I believe in the main points, but not the details. So, I believe from my house, and it goes along with all my other beliefs too.

I also don't believe in the heaven and hell thing anymore either. I used to, but then I read and learned, and I found other things that made way more sense to me.

I guess I'm very loose with my religion. I believe there is a God, and Jesus, but I don't follow the churches teachings, and I believe in other things, like multiple gods, an afterlife (unlike heaven and hell), reincarnation, and stuff like that. Demons, angels, ghosts, monsters, cryptids, parallel dimensions... Many, many things.

Even as a young child, before I learned of heaven and hell, my first belief was that we reincarnated. I even asked my grandma where my grandpa was going to be born next after he died. Then she told me we go to heaven and don't come back, and I got majorly confused, but being 4 I didn't think about it again.

I almost think that maybe to some degree, every religion is right. That they have some element to them.

But whatever. I have nothing against religion, I don't even have anything against churches even though I don't like going to them, as long as it keeps people doing good, and you don't shove it down my throat, I don't care.

But, critical thinking is a good start. Just looking at the facts, looking at what is proven fact, and seeing what makes sense and lines up.

Like how many ancient civilizations wrote about and worshipped many different gods, and then from somewhere the idea of one god comes up. I don't know, there's many things the ancients can tell us.

Anyways, my two cents.. Maybe only one cent, can't type fast enough to fit all my thoughts in.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Nighthawk9653

[SHaYap]

12. All in the heaven is free from change; all on the earth is subject unto it.

Naught in the heaven's a slave; naught on the earth is free.

Nothing can not be known in heaven; naught can be known on earth.

The things on earth do not consort with things in heaven. [*2]

All things in heaven are free from blame; all on the earth are blameworthy.

The immortal is not mortal; the mortal, not immortal.

That which is sown, is not invariably brought forth; but that which is brought forth, must have invariably been sown.

[p. 10]

( Thrice-Greatest Hermes Vol. 3, page 325 )

17. Tat. What meanest thou, O father?

Her. This, [my] son! All that in man is animal, is proner unto bad [than unto good]; nay, it doth cohabit with it, because it is in love with it.

Now if this animal should learn that Cosmos is subject to genesis, and all things come and go according to Fore-knowledge [*1] and by Necessity, Fate ruling all, -- in no long time it would grow worse than it is now, [*2] [and] thinking scorn of the whole [universe] as being subject unto genesis, and unto Fate referring [all] the causes of the bad, would never cease from every evil deed.

Wherefore, care should be taken of them, in order that being

in ignorance, they may become less bad through fear of the unknown.

( Thrice-Greatest Hermes Vol. 3, p. age 325)

Thrice-Greatest Hermes, Vol. 3, by G.R.S. Mead, [1906], at sacred-texts.com

________________________________________________________________________________________________

'God' is just another word for something we have no words for ~

And 'this that we use that word for' which there is no word for - exists in all of us ... when we seek to use words to define it, that is when we are likely to lose our way ...

~

[Davros of Skaro]

I can describe my upbringing as secular, but 30 years ago as a child I was given a Bible which I still have.Long story short, the Theology of Sin, Faith, Repentence, and Salvation was illogical to me.Carl Sagan's Cosmos series had a greater impact on me than the Bible.

Now I just put information out there for people on the fence.

[thyra]

So I guess what I wanted to accomplish with this thread is to see if any believers can tell me what religion or a belief in God brings to their life, and why they have made the choice to follow a creed/religion.....

Because I always had this need inside of me to know god. I dont remember a time that I didnt have this urge or need. Thus I picked a religion to help me with that as well.

[Awake2Chaos]

I first want to thank you all for replying. I appreciate all the well thought out answers you've given me.

I want to quantify my OP a bit as well.

I do not think religion is invalid. I believe that the act of faith is paramount; whether you believe in God, Gods, nothing or something else....having the ability to recognize that there may (or may not) be a larger power at work in the expanse of the cosmos is important to the human psyche. We have an inherent drive to contemplate these things. It's the same basic drive that compels us to bend our necks to the night sky. We need to believe in something. We need to understand our place in it all.

A Pagan friend summed it up for me once; "All paths are valid."

I guess for me personally, I look at all the all the ancient civilizations and their creation myths.....it's not hard to see the repetition. But the scientist in me leans more toward the way of alien intervention at some point. 'Alien' has a broad definition for me....it doesn't necessarily have to be off-worlders....it includes interdimensionals and the like also. The expanse of space and laws of probability gaurentee we are not alone in existence. And imagine what an advanced being would appear as to a primitive people....it would be much like a cargo cult.

Christianity is a wonderful creed if it's followed in the way I think it was originally intended - with love and tolerance at it's center. Once it's been weaponized to pass judgement or fear-monger, it's not Christianity any more.

Anyway, I think the bottom line is...as long as fear doesn't drive your belief, you are on the right path.

If you believe in any religion and you do so because you feel that it's 'insurance for your soul'....then your belief is invalid.

[Davros of Skaro]

Hey A2C

What do you think the Scientists reactions would be if the Monkeys all worked together (stood on each others shoulders if it was possible?), got the Bannana, and shared it equally without the Ladder?

[Awake2Chaos]

Hey A2C

What do you think the Scientists reactions would be if the Monkeys all worked together (stood on each others shoulders if it was possible?), got the Bannana, and shared it equally without the Ladder?

What an interesting example of indoctrination.

I think most scientists would be shocked, to be honest. It's not that they aren't capable of doing so, just the likelyhood of them doing it is....well, probably pretty slim.

Indoctrination is so dangerous. My daughter will be 8 in a couple weeks, and she has no idea what a church is.

She understands basic spirituality.....life, death, right, wrong....but I have choosen to not teach her anything about organized religion until she's old enough to make up her own mind about what is right for her. Then what ever decision she makes will be hers. Not mine imposed upon her, as was done to me.

Monkeys are perfectly capable of working together and problem solving...but when you are conditioned to do something at the will of someone else, it's a very hard habit to break. I think that's why most people you talk to who have divorced themselves from one type of organized religion or another describe the event in truamatic terms. I have yet to hear someone say it was a plesant experience.

Thanks for posting, I enjoyed that video.

[Leonardo]

I first want to thank you all for replying. I appreciate all the well thought out answers you've given me.

I want to quantify my OP a bit as well.

I do not think religion is invalid.

I am a Humanist and can fully understand why many people turn to religious faith - because maintaining faith in Humanity is terribly, terribly difficult.

[+HerNibs]

Hello again, Chaos (again, a strange saying).

I'm what's known as either an indifferent or apathetic agnostic. I prefer the term, 'indifferent'.

I have never claimed to say that there is, or is not, God. I feel that it's simply not my place to claim one way or the other. If God is, or is not, I think that it'll have no bearing on my existance, in this life or the possible promise of a 'next'.

I live my life the best that I can make it, for me and those around me (to be fair, honest, inclusive, helpful...) If there is no God, it makes no difference. If there is a God, it still makes no difference. I'll still continue along the same path.

Science, is observable. God is not. That doesn't mean that the two are diametrically opposed. They're just 'different'.

My husband is also an apathetic agnostic but he defines it as "don't know, don't care".

Nibs

[Awake2Chaos]

I am a Humanist and can fully understand why many people turn to religious faith - because maintaining faith in Humanity is terribly, terribly difficult.

Indeed. Faith in humanity is very difficult to find, let alone maintain, especially these days. But in my mind, I don't know if having faith would give me comfort....or digust in a God that would allow our kind to sink to the depths that is has....or...why would he create us, if he knew ahead of time that we'd be so violent and cold toward each other?

I'm guessing most people don't look at it that way.

[Davros of Skaro]

I am a Humanist and can fully understand why many people turn to religious faith - because maintaining faith in Humanity is terribly, terribly difficult.

In my opinion Faith has a factor among others in Neurobiology which is silenced by little of what we know, and Political correctness.

I understand what you are saying, but the best one can do is think, and to add an Ember to the Campfire.

Faith is used to justify many things with just a promissory note that is made Legal, and binding in the MINDS that want to believe.

All one has to do is believe, and it will all go away.

Revelation 22:7 "Beehold, I am coming soon!"