The Circle Makers

[zoser]

Rob Buckle is a crop circle investigator that I first came across a couple of years ago and whom I have a lot of respect for. He made this two part presentation a couple of years ago which looks at the phenomena from a bit of a different perspective.

Instead of the endless debate of 'who dunnit' he looks at the wider phenomena associated with the formations and focusses on the circle makers in terms of their motivation and experiences.

Paste these into youtube to see his previous presentations:

Crop Circles - The Truth & The Lies (Pt 1)

Crop Circles - The Truth & The Lies (Pt 2

In his latest presentation he includes a lot interviews with crop circle makers.

Far from being people who cynically turn out in all conditions trampling fields making formations to keep people guessing and torment researchers of the paranormal side, the circle makers see themselves as very much a part of the whole phenomena.

The circle makers testify in his latest presentation to witnessing:

1) Balls of light while making formations.

2) Strange figures in circles.

3) Flashes of light in fields emanating from unknown locations (see thread on new California Formation post 3).

The circle makers feel that they receive inspiration from sources unknown to create their work. Man made formations have been inexplicably added to. Some circle makers claim to have been chased out of fields by balls of light.......

In short they claim a whole host of unexplained phenomena occurs when they are out in fields making formations.

Here is Buckle's latest presentation.

Crop Circles, Rabbit Holes & Time Loops - Rob Buckle

See particularly 0:20:00 and 1:13:00 for the circle maker's testimonies.

The presentation contains some of the best footage I have ever seen on balls of light (See 0:32:00).

So in short Buckle is not claiming that all formations are made by people. He focusses instead on the circle makers and their role in the wider phenomena.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Tiggs
Corrected typo in title.

[Mentalcase]

*huge eye roll & face palm*

[Bramley]

The current crop circle debate has increase in complexity. This mans 27 years of experience researching the field of crop circles, and resultant realisations of the realities of crop circle hoaxing. Has resulted in a redefinition of what the crop circles are. From an extra terrestrial messaging phenomena, to a yet to be understood human generated pscho-spatial phenomena. If this man can come to terms with his intaily flawed hypothosis. By embrasing a far more chalanging definiton of crop circles. Then so can the rest of us.

He asks a simple question: If the crop circles are Hoaxed phenomena, which they seem to be. Then what is the nature of the strangeness surrounding them?

[zoser]

*huge eye roll & face palm*

Yep. Whether humans making them or not, the phenomena is still steeped in mystery.

Extremely sorry about that.

[zoser]

The current crop circle debate has increase in complexity. This mans 27 years of experience researching the field of crop circles, and resultant realisations of the realities of crop circle hoaxing. Has resulted in a redefinition of what the crop circles are. From an extra terrestrial messaging phenomena, to a yet to be understood human generated pscho-spatial phenomena. If this man can come to terms with his intaily flawed hypothosis. By embrasing a far more chalanging definiton of crop circles. Then so can the rest of us.

He asks a simple question: If the crop circles are Hoaxed phenomena, which they seem to be. Then what is the nature of the strangeness surrounding them?

Some interesting issues there. I'll try and watch the documentary tomorrow.

I'm still not convinced that all the formations are man made; the impression I get is that Buckle doesn't exactly know.

Research says that not all are man made; the more time has gone on the ratio of man made to natural formations has increased and most of the researchers I come across seem to concur with that.

My impression is that initially they were all natural (say in the 70's). Then the situation became more complex.= in the 80's and 90's.

Buckle's presentations indicate to me that it is a little obtuse to refer to the circle makers as hoaxers. Listen to their testimonies and one gets the feeling that they are doing it to understand more about the phenomena.

It's changed my mind somewhat listening to them.

Edited January 1, 2014 by zoser

[Rafterman]

Why do you respect him? What are his credentials other than he thought he saw a UFO in 1997?

He seems to have posted a handful of videos on You Tube that have marginal at best viewership and blogs for some truther website in the UK.

[zoser]

Why do you respect him? What are his credentials other than he thought he saw a UFO in 1997?

He seems to have posted a handful of videos on You Tube that have marginal at best viewership and blogs for some truther website in the UK.

Easy

The guy has done some sincere work in the field by interviewing circle makers for a start. Trying to move away from the polarising debate about who or what is responsible. It should be obvious to anyone that there are man made formations and non-man made ones.

The military would not have taken such an interest for a start if it were all people's doing.

Until you look into it you will never know.

[Bramley]

My interest in the crop circle subject was intially nudged by Colin Andrews bearly 2 years ago. By that time Mr Andrews had come to the realisation of the human hand in crop circle formation. What caught my interest were the testemonies from circle makers, of strange phenomena during, and after circle creation. For me this subject became a matter of human percpetual reaction to a conciously modified environment. What also hooked my interest was the unwillingness of alien crop circle believers to engage in any form of creative debate about this idea at all.

Admittedly my understanding of the subject is purely internet based. Yet, I feel there could be some intereting lines of enquiry in the subject of the perceptual impact of vartious forms of architectonic space.

[zoser]

My interest in the crop circle subject was intially nudged by Colin Andrews bearly 2 years ago. By that time Mr Andrews had come to the realisation of the human hand in crop circle formation. What caught my interest were the testemonies from circle makers, of strange phenomena during, and after circle creation. For me this subject became a matter of human percpetual reaction to a conciously modified environment. What also hooked my interest was the unwillingness of alien crop circle believers to engage in any form of creative debate about this idea at all.

Admittedly my understanding of the subject is purely internet based. Yet, I feel there could be some intereting lines of enquiry in the subject of the perceptual impact of vartious forms of architectonic space.

Not totally sure what you are getting at? Are you implying that it's all a matter of psychology?

[Gold Star]

If all circles are made by humans, then a simple test could validate it. Since circle creation always follow a similar pattern from year to year, we could request that all human circle makers refrain from making circles during a specific period, such as the first two weeks in July, to interrupt the pattern. If the number of circles drops appreciably during that period then the claim that only humans make the circles is considerably strengthened and even possibly proven. All it would take would be a little advance publicity. The circle makers could shift the works they would otherwise have made to other days or weeks before or after the two-week shutdown.

[Bramley]

Not totally sure what you are getting at? Are you implying that it's all a matter of psychology?

I think what I'm trying to say is that maybe the reported effects have a psychological component. But I also feel that the effects the people are describing could potientially provide us with increased data points to draw from. Perception of unidentified figures, the loss of time during formation, atmospheric phenomena are just some of the reports.

When trying to understand an individual, or groups psycho-physical functioning in various forms of environment, and activety. There could be another source of infomation we are not tapping into.

This all sounds a bit reductionist I know, but there appears to be some real interesting human, environment interaction going on. Maybe the artistic act of crop circle formation provides us with an oppertunity to formulate repeatable exprimental result. Results in an area of human experience that has largley been placed in the area of subjective experience by modern thought.

I'm not claiming any knowledge of the crop circles or scientific matters, but I do feel there are potiential results to be had. That could give us greater insight into human psycho-physiology in normal, and not so normal enivronments.

[Mentalcase]

Trying to find a phenomenon where there isn't one. Crop Circles have been thoroughly debunked and now you are trying to find the "mystery" behind the crop circle makers? It's simple, get a rope, a wooden plank, and go!!!! Their motivation is either inspired by art or to mess with people's heads. There is more mystery anywhere else but where you are looking. CASE CLOSED, CROP CIRCLES ARE IN FACT, 100% FAKE. DEAL WITH IT!

Edited January 1, 2014 by Mentalcase

[Bramley]

Trying to find a phenomenon where there isn't one. Crop Circles have been thoroughly debunked and now you are trying to find the "mystery" behind the crop circle makers? It's simple, get a rope, a wooden plank, and go!!!! There's motivation is either inspired by art or to mess with people's heads. There is more mystery anywhere else but where you are looking. CASE CLOSED, CROP CIRCLES ARE IN FACT, 100% FAKE. DEAL WITH IT!

Agree with your sentiments, but still interested in the possiblities human crop circle formations imply. REALLY SORRY TO MAKE YOU USE CAPS LOCK, BUT HAY OPINIONS ARE MANY, AND VARIED. FACT! DEAL WITH IT!

[Mentalcase]

"Opinions" is hardly a good enough excuse for this dribble.

[Bramley]

"Opinions" is hardly a good enough excuse for this dribble.

Thank you for your detailed, fully qualified opinion. The way you have expressed your knowledge of the subject, and speculations on the subject has really made an impact on me. Its quite obvious you have spent a lot of time evaluating all the potiential options. The subtly of your position, has opened my eyes to the fact of the situation. The scope of expression you have posted displays a quite phenomenal level of reading comprehension. Please be assured that any opinion I express in the future will be passed by you first.

Also nowhere do my posts disagree with your frustration, or statements. I think they are man made too. Don't think for a second your talking to some Sophist victim of wishful thinking.

[Mentalcase]

Perhaps you are taking what I said too personal? Seeing as it was directed toward Zoser anyway. And yes, I've done plenty of research (years ago, before it was debunked) and don't have the energy to even attempt to explain anything on this subject. The fact remains. There is absolutely nothing to talk about, as far as mysteries go..

[Mentalcase]

How bout the weather today? Man it's been snowing for 3 days here! HBU?

[Bramley]

Perhaps you are taking what I said too personal? Seeing as it was directed toward Zoser anyway. And yes, I've done plenty of research (years ago, before it was debunked) and don't have the energy to even attempt to explain anything on this subject. The fact remains. There is absolutely nothing to talk about, as far as mysteries go..

Please Believe me, no offense of any kind taken. This format of discusion means were all working one eye blind. The direction of your opinion does not quite get to the heart of the matter for me. You expressed what I believe to be a correct opinion in a disengenous manner. As such your comments served only to mitigate any form of speculative discourse. Correct as your opinion may be, it is only correct to a certain level of contemplation. But hay, its all just text on the screen, right?

As for the weather. Bright, Sunny, With Periodic Showers. Northwesterlies expected, showers later in the week. Flood warning still level 2.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Bramley

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

The military would not have taken such an interest for a start if it were all people's doing.

I can conceive of a reason - the circles are made at night. In a single night often when the true darkness of night doesn't last very long (ie high summer in the UK).

Which requires a number of things - excellent coordination and vision being paramount. Now, the military is always looking for ways to see better at night and to coordinate their troops at night. Seeing how the circle makers did it might give them ideas.

[Bramley]

I can conceive of a reason - the circles are made at night. In a single night often when the true darkness of night doesn't last very long (ie high summer in the UK).

Which requires a number of things - excellent coordination and vision being paramount. Now, the military is always looking for ways to see better at night and to coordinate their troops at night. Seeing how the circle makers did it might give them ideas.

Agreed.

In one of the Colin Andrews Lectures he speaks of an incident which was publicly denied by the military. Invovling a fighter jet, associated staff, and witnesses.

What ever the facts of the incident it went for a burton, the miltary have been sworn to treacle toffies, and are keeping mum.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Bramley

[Bramley]

Rob Buckle is a crop circle investigator that I first came across a couple of years ago and whom I have a lot of respect for. He made this two part presentation a couple of years ago which looks at the phenomena from a bit of a different perspective.

Instead of the endless debate of 'who dunnit' he looks at the wider phenomena associated with the formations and focusses on the circle makers in terms of their motivation and experiences.

Paste these into youtube to see his previous presentations:

Crop Circles - The Truth & The Lies (Pt 1)

Crop Circles - The Truth & The Lies (Pt 2

In his latest presentation he includes a lot interviews with crop circle makers.

Far from being people who cynically turn out in all conditions trampling fields making formations to keep people guessing and torment researchers of the paranormal side, the circle makers see themselves as very much a part of the whole phenomena.

The circle makers testify in his latest presentation to witnessing:

1) Balls of light while making formations.

2) Strange figures in circles.

3) Flashes of light in fields emanating from unknown locations (see thread on new California Formation post 3).

The circle makers feel that they receive inspiration from sources unknown to create their work. Man made formations have been inexplicably added to. Some circle makers claim to have been chased out of fields by balls of light.......

In short they claim a whole host of unexplained phenomena occurs when they are out in fields making formations.

Here is Buckle's latest presentation.

Crop Circles, Rabbit Holes & Time Loops - Rob Buckle

See particularly 0:20:00 and 1:13:00 for the circle maker's testimonies.

The presentation contains some of the best footage I have ever seen on balls of light (See 0:32:00).

So in short Buckle is not claiming that all formations are made by people. He focusses instead on the circle makers and their role in the wider phenomena.

Just watched Bob Buckle's presentation. Very interesting.

Thanks

[Paranomaly]

I have seen 7 ufo's, all of them looked like stars or balls of light. I haven't seen them making crop circles but a friends grandpa had one in his field back in the seventies, he said it was a circle about 20 foot in diameter.

[zoser]

If all circles are made by humans, then a simple test could validate it. Since circle creation always follow a similar pattern from year to year, we could request that all human circle makers refrain from making circles during a specific period, such as the first two weeks in July, to interrupt the pattern. If the number of circles drops appreciably during that period then the claim that only humans make the circles is considerably strengthened and even possibly proven. All it would take would be a little advance publicity. The circle makers could shift the works they would otherwise have made to other days or weeks before or after the two-week shutdown.

That's an idea that could work provided that all circle makers were willing to co-operate. Of course there is the thought that whatever it is that was making them (earlier say in the 70's) isn't doing so any more and the 'baton' has been passed on.

In principle I agree with your idea.

[zoser]

Trying to find a phenomenon where there isn't one. Crop Circles have been thoroughly debunked and now you are trying to find the "mystery" behind the crop circle makers? It's simple, get a rope, a wooden plank, and go!!!! Their motivation is either inspired by art or to mess with people's heads. There is more mystery anywhere else but where you are looking. CASE CLOSED, CROP CIRCLES ARE IN FACT, 100% FAKE. DEAL WITH IT!

Again the suggestion; look into it for yourself. Watch Buckle's latest presentation and start there. Seriously.

No disrespect Mr M but your statements are coming from wishful thinking. It stands out a mile.

What is backing me up (and the people that feel there is some unexplained phenomena in this) are the people who have shot video's of balls of light, and who testify to seeing and experiencing things in fields.

As I see it you have nothing backing your argument.

Your only chance as I see it is to hear what the people say, take what they have captured on film and try to explain it. I provided you with the time windows in the presentation so you don't have to wade through a 90 minute presentation.

Edited January 2, 2014 by zoser

[zoser]

I have seen 7 ufo's, all of them looked like stars or balls of light. I haven't seen them making crop circles but a friends grandpa had one in his field back in the seventies, he said it was a circle about 20 foot in diameter.

Yes I'm convinced that the balls of light do or have made formations. There are too many reports to indicate otherwise.

What are they and where are they from?

Are they part of the planet's maintenance system? Do the formations attract energy that the planet needs? Have the formations always existed? The idea that they have existed in history doesn't have a lot to support it as I see it. Maybe the odd formation here and there but I can't see that it has ever been a widespread phenomena as it is today.

Are the balls of light carrying out some kind of pollination function by collecting energy and taking it elsewhere? Why would that be needed at this time?

Z