Anti-Christ. Atheists and Agnostics

[Rlyeh]

No

Yes.

[seaturtlehorsesnake]

where are all these atheists that are for executing religious people, anyways?

i don't want to execute anyone, ever.

[Likely Guy]

A group of people can make a credo anyday, doesn't need to be "faith" based. I do see a lot of anger in athiest concerning the faith of others and im sure they are no better than anybody else. The thread proposes it, im just commenting. Like I said before, I hope not.

You're right. I took that a credo was only an expression of religious belief as credo is Latin for, literally, "I believe."

Now the meaning is far broader to include the 'beliefs' of any group.

I can't speak for anyone else but I suspect that, by definition, agnostics are non-aligned and generally non-violent.

[Emma_Acid]

I do see a lot of anger in athiest concerning the faith of others and im sure they are no better than anybody else.

Really?? Actual anger or just staggered disbelief that anyone could organise their lives around an obviously fictitious fairy tale? I see a lot of anger from the faithful, randomly lashing out at everything from evolution to gay weddings, but I don't see these angry atheists you talk about.

[SpiritWriter]

Really?? Actual anger or just staggered disbelief that anyone could organise their lives around an obviously fictitious fairy tale? I see a lot of anger from the faithful, randomly lashing out at everything from evolution to gay weddings, but I don't see these angry atheists you talk about.

Actual anger

[+joc]

Really?? Actual anger or just staggered disbelief that anyone could organise their lives around an obviously fictitious fairy tale? I see a lot of anger from the faithful, randomly lashing out at everything from evolution to gay weddings, but I don't see these angry atheists you talk about.

What is 'staggered disbelief'? Is it different from 'disbelief'? What makes it 'staggered'? What of the old wives saying: One man's 'obviously fictitious fairy tale' is another mans 'treasure of the heart and faith that helps him get through his day'?

[sards]

Most Atheists I have discussed religion with feel that believers are silly ( or stupid ) to believe in something that cannot be proven and cite unpleasant childhood experiences that changed their minds. That implies that something made them so angry they now disprove.

Now if the prophecy is fulfilled and it's good against evil , believers vs non believer's I certainly hope that common decency will prevail from both sides. It will certainly be an interesting time.

[+Liquid Gardens]

What is 'staggered disbelief'? Is it different from 'disbelief'? What makes it 'staggered'?

I am staggered in disbelief by what people believe to be true and why. What makes it 'staggered' is that the reasons and evidence supporting why some religious beliefs are true are so poor that it's incredible (so much it makes me stagger) that so many people actually believe them.

What of the old wives saying: One man's 'obviously fictitious fairy tale' is another mans 'treasure of the heart and faith that helps him get through his day'?

What of it? I don't know anyone who argues that people can't derive benefits from believing in fictions. What of, 'what is objectively true and how best do we ascertain that?'.

[moonshadow60]

People are being massacred for their faith in the Middle East and Africa every day. Christians are becoming very scarce and they were scarce to begin with in that area of the world.

[Awake2Chaos]

People are being massacred for their faith in the Middle East and Africa every day. Christians are becoming very scarce and they were scarce to begin with in that area of the world.

What I find interesting is that no one entertains the notion that maybe that is what Jesus intended?

Men decided the 'nature' of his divinity....who says he didn't dupe them all? (I have a friend who calls Jesus the greatest troll to ever live.....)

I'm agnostic/atheistic in my belief, but I don't slam anyone for believing. Not angry about it either. All it takes is some dedicated research and the holes you can poke in Christianity are very easy to find. If people want to follow it then that's on them. I hope it helps them.

But it would be nice to see people really understand the origins of what they follow. It's interesting to me the folks that don't take the time to explore that.

[XenoFish]

I can't speak for anyone else but I suspect that, by definition, agnostics are non-aligned and generally non-violent.

I'm agnostic and I think violence is pointless unless it's required for survival. Don't start none, won't be none.

[+joc]

I am staggered in disbelief by what people believe to be true and why. What makes it 'staggered' is that the reasons and evidence supporting why some religious beliefs are true are so poor that it's incredible (so much it makes me stagger) that so many people actually believe them.

Why do think it is that so many people believe things that are so staggeringly unbelievable?

What of it? I don't know anyone who argues that people can't derive benefits from believing in fictions. What of, 'what is objectively true and how best do we ascertain that?'.

Same question as above actually, Why do you think it is that so many people reject what is objectively true and have no interest at all in how to ascertain that?

[gantonio45]

First of all, I just wanted to say that I believe this is a very good topic of discussion. Why? Because it has gotten people talking.

Now, from what the OP has asked "What would it take for you to find faith?" I can say this, which accounts for each and every person on here to have their own belief system and opinion.

It is my belief, as a Born-Again Christian, that there is indeed a God. I believe He is One entity existing in three parts (Father, Son, Holy Spirit.) This of course is just my belief, after years of struggling, searching, and suffering.

I will say this, for someone to "find faith" it cannot just happen like a light switch. The first thing that someone must want, is have a relationship with God, for themselves. There cannot be any exterior motives or variables that persuade an individual to come to know God. They cannot be forced to accept God or forced to accept any measure of faith. Doing so, goes against the very free will that God Himself has given us.

For someone to find faith, it needs to come in their own time, under their own circumstance. For those that don't find faith, or follow any "organized" religion, does not make them any less of an individual who lives and breathes the same air as us who have found something to believe in.

What it takes, depends on the journey each one of us is meant to travel.

[+Liquid Gardens]

Why do think it is that so many people believe things that are so staggeringly unbelievable?

Same question as above actually, Why do you think it is that so many people reject what is objectively true and have no interest at all in how to ascertain that?

I criticize too many others for pretending they can read others' minds and I think that is largely required to answer your questions, but just based on my pure opinion I think there are lots of reasons. I'd guess that ultimately they believe because they want to and it makes them feel better than they do or would otherwise. Lots of religious participation brings with it other social benefits, community, support, and such, and I think there's a decent amount of good stuff like charity and goodwill that for the most part gets reinforced by it; no matter what the spiritual benefits supposedly are, a lot of the time it feels good to do good. I'd guess that some people are scared also of the alternative (which is actually 'the unknown', not necessarily 'nothingness'), and most religious people derive great meaning and purpose from it.

But most people I know just believe because they do actually believe it is objectively true, and I don't necessarily begrudge them that; as John Lennon sang, "Whatever gets you through the night, it's all right, it's all right". If people want to believe things are true based on faith or hope or trust or whatever then have at it, we all do to some extent or another. But let's call it what it is and be honest and consistent about it, which to be fair some believers are. Let's be clear, at least IMO, that the 'reasoning' being used to support a lot of unbelievable beliefs is unlike the reasoning we use for almost everything else. The best way I can phrase it is that faith and hope (and 'personal experiences') can be good reasons why someone should believe something to be true, they're just not good reasons why something is true.

[Rlyeh]

Most Atheists I have discussed religion with feel that believers are silly ( or stupid ) to believe in something that cannot be proven and cite unpleasant childhood experiences that changed their minds. That implies that something made them so angry they now disprove.

Now if the prophecy is fulfilled and it's good against evil , believers vs non believer's I certainly hope that common decency will prevail from both sides. It will certainly be an interesting time.

I'm still waiting for Genesis.

[bendigger0]

i'll say this... i think "Satan" is a psychological transference. A projection of our own fears, uncertainties and guilt onto an archetypal figure. "Satan" exists in some hearts and minds, not as an independent spiritual entity. God on the other hand, is the motive force/energy inhabiting all that is. We are all spiritual beings, having a human experience. It matters not what man/woman believes... it matters only what God believes. You are forever an ongoing part of that creative process we call "God".

[Leonardo]

What would it take for you to find faith. Or would you follow popular consensus and the seduction of Satan.

I know it won't arrive in a chariot of fire and brimstone with horns and flaming fork. Too obvious. Guaranteed to turn those who remain undecided.

It will arrive . Seducing its congregation. I won't speculate on how or when, but it will arrive.

The honeymoon of its gathering will be hard to ignore for those unable to process faith . Those who rely on cold hard facts because their minds have not the capacity yet to grasp the spiritual. Until the true intentions of the anti-Christ become apparent through acts so evil and malicious against those of faith that ethically the agnostics and atheists will find themselves questioning.

I wonder how they will deal with this revelation.

What, faith in a 'rapture' that was supposed to happen nearly 2 thousand years ago - as the scripture itself states?

A rapture that never happened, but generation after generation of believers since then have convinced themselves, or been led into being convinced by a priesthood with an obvious vested interest in doing so, that it is 'still to come'?

I can have absolutely no faith in what is written in the Christian bible, since one of it's core predictions never happened.