psyche101 Posted January 22, 2014 #101 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Thanks but I am aware of all that. Nonetheless, the Ancient Aliens show did draw more than 1 million viewers on the History channel. It goes without saying that these subjects appeals to certain people. So what? 800,000 dumb people exist, and 200,000 people refute the show and go WTF? What does that indicate? Box Office History for Star Wars Movies ← See all franchises Release Date Movie Production Budget Domestic Opening Weekend Domestic Box Office Worldwide Box Office Trailer May 25, 1977 Star Wars Ep. IV: A New Hope $11,000,000 $1,554,475 $460,998,007 $797,900,000 May 21, 1980 Star Wars Ep. V: The Empire Strikes Back $23,000,000 $4,910,483 $290,271,960 $534,171,960 May 25, 1983 Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi $32,500,000 $23,019,618 $309,205,079 $572,700,000 May 19, 1999 Star Wars Ep. I: The Phantom Menace $115,000,000 $64,810,970 $474,544,677 $1,007,044,677 Play May 16, 2002 Star Wars Ep. II: Attack of the Clones $115,000,000 $80,027,814 $310,676,740 $656,695,615 May 19, 2005 Star Wars Ep. III: Revenge of the Sith $115,000,000 $108,435,841 $380,270,577 $848,998,877 Aug 15, 2008 Star Wars: The Clone Wars $8,500,000 $14,611,273 $35,161,554 $68,161,554 Totals $420,000,000 $2,261,128,594 $4,485,672,683 Averages $60,000,000 $42,481,496 $323,018,371 $640,810,383 Is Yoda real too? It's not about supporting chalantans however rather about freedom of thoughts. That is something I consider important. Nothing obligate you to accept certains ideas, concepts. I prefer to be politely respectful of one's point of view but firmly disagree on the other hand. I fail to see how your message can get through without first trying to understand the other's POV. What about my freedom of thought? I know Hellyer is lying, I don't think, I know. I am not discussing this with Hellyer, although I would relish the opportunity to do so. And I am not saying do not let the man speak, I am saying what he says is total crap, and one has to be pretty credulous to even get past the first sentence. If anything, I say bring every claim he has made to the table, lets look at them. I do not want to pander about, lets open them up, have a look, I already have, it's not pretty. That is the point of a discussion forum unless I am mistaken? Again, it is the media who give him the spot. The man doesn't mind sharing his ideas and opinions I think we all know that. Sometimes a belief can lead you to think that something is a fact. He might very well be wrong. No solid evidence to support his claims have been put forward. Yes they do, and he has to be accountable for what he says, if he says ET is here FACT, then he is going to have to back that statement up, and he cannot because he just read it in a novel! Interesting that you would provide a link to a website of UFO supporters. Why not? You wont have to call me biased then will you? That said, I cannot answer for the man, I am only a commentator here. My own view is that he probably started to become interested later on. On the video mentionned he explain that some people suggested him to read books and he became fascinated. It is likely that he made researches and study of UFOs and Aliens stuffs at some point and became a believer like many other people in America and around the world. There is no mystery surrounding his influences at all, I have stated the twice, he read Crash at Corona, watched Peter Jennings doing a UFO special, read some woo sites on the net, and made up a fictitious General, which is what I feel might have been the very beginning of his lying spree. I think he felt good about his nephew looking up to him for this fake confirmation, and he is now out of control on the same concept, enjoying the attention. Beats being a lonely old man I suppose? Yes, like many others, he skimmed the subject, found some aspects that titillated his imagination, wanted it to be true, and is now out looking for others to validate his fantasies, difference being that he states ET visitation is fact, when it is most certainly is not. Again, everyone is entitled to their own belief, not their own facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badeskov Posted January 22, 2014 #102 Share Posted January 22, 2014 ... He revealed to me the existence of this document: UFO Briefing Document - Extraterrestrial Life & The UFO Phenomenon - Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums At this point skeptics are either just goofing around or trying to be stones in the shoes on the path of investigation, so I'm pretty much done here unless I see some valid information...doubt it though. That you were not aware of that document already is very telling. It has been a topic of discussion several times here at UM. And there is absolutely nothing groundbreaking in it. If you feel differently, please do feel free to elaborate, but I can almost promise you that every speck on that document has been examined here and found to carry no weight. Cheers, Badeskov 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted January 22, 2014 #103 Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) So what? 800,000 dumb people exist, and 200,000 people refute the show and go WTF? What does that indicate? In my view, you are misjudging. It seems to be a simplistic view of other's people opinions and interests. My point is not about the validity or truth of this show, rather that there is a fair amount of people ready to listen and consider these kind ideas and theories. Therefore it is not suprising at all that Mr Hellyer easily find an audience. The box office history of Star Wars is not a good comparison, rather the fascination of the public for these Paranormal, Aliens, Ghosts concepts that are the roots of it. A recent Huffington/YouGov poll of September 2013 suggest 48% of Americans believe in UFO as Aliens (http://www.huffingto..._n_3900669.html) A new series is coming on Discovery Science called ''Close encounters'' you may want to check that out. The fact is that it makes good money for the cable TV and will assuredly draw an audience. Surely you know that? What about my freedom of thought?I know Hellyer is lying, I don't think, I know. I am not discussing this with Hellyer, although I would relish the opportunity to do so. And I am not saying do not let the man speak, I am saying what he says is total crap, and one has to be pretty credulous to even get past the first sentence. If anything, I say bring every claim he has made to the table, lets look at them. I do not want to pander about, lets open them up, have a look, I already have, it's not pretty. That is the point of a discussion forum unless I am mistaken? You have every right to your freedom of thought and speech. But just as you may disagree with people, others may do the same with you. It is my understanding as well that Mr Hellyer is wrong and I do not agree with his speculations. However, I cannot say that he purposedly try to deceive people in a malicious way as certain UFO supporters and conspiracy theorists did. I think he genuinely believe what he says regardless of how wrong and out of the track he may be. Despite his lack of criticism and his confidence in the theories he profundly believes in, he has been honest on the matters that interested me most: He admitted in interviews that he never heard, got or gleaned any informations concerning his claims while in function of Minister of Defense. He might have lied and used that former position to deceive but he didn't. Yes they do, and he has to be accountable for what he says, if he says ET is here FACT, then he is going to have to back that statement up, and he cannot because he just read it in a novel! His claims are not supported by solid evidences. That point is quite clear in this debate I think. I know that you have this matter to heart and care about the truth as I do but he is not the only one claiming all sort of things and present it as facts in these subjects of UFOs and Aliens nor will he be the last. If you think that Mr Hellyer has no credibility and is the worst Minister of Defense of all time, why then begging for proof? It shoud be quite obvious for you that he does not have the truth of it. Some might call it ''kicking a man on the ground.'' There is no mystery surrounding his influences at all, I have stated the twice, he read Crash at Corona, watched Peter Jennings doing a UFO special, read some woo sites on the net, and made up a fictitious General, which is what I feel might have been the very beginning of his lying spree. I think he felt good about his nephew looking up to him for this fake confirmation, and he is now out of control on the same concept, enjoying the attention. Beats being a lonely old man I suppose?Yes, like many others, he skimmed the subject, found some aspects that titillated his imagination, wanted it to be true, and is now out looking for others to validate his fantasies, difference being that he states ET visitation is fact, when it is most certainly is not. Again, everyone is entitled to their own belief, not their own facts. Who says that the man has influence, pray? Certainly not me. His beliefs and interpretations does not stem from having witnessed things as a Minister Of Defense and in politics. I also have stated many times that his passion came from books, ufology, conspiracy theory ect. The stuffs any one can cheaply get online or in the backstore of a local librairy. Edited January 22, 2014 by sam_comm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendigger0 Posted January 22, 2014 #104 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I'm certain it's safe to say that Paul Hellyer, while Minister of Defense (Canada), developed relationships with other cabinet level people through-out the world. I suggest that the conclusions he has come to, regarding "aliens" and/or "ufos", are tempered somewhat by his network of acquaintances in, or formerly in, cabinet-level positions worldwide. Does Paul Hellyer have more credibility, concerning Top Secret affairs, than Joe Blow on the corner, or psycho-somebody on an internet chat-site? Maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted January 22, 2014 #105 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I'm certain it's safe to say that Paul Hellyer, while Minister of Defense (Canada), developed relationships with other cabinet level people through-out the world. I suggest that the conclusions he has come to, regarding "aliens" and/or "ufos", are tempered somewhat by his network of acquaintances in, or formerly in, cabinet-level positions worldwide. Does Paul Hellyer have more credibility, concerning Top Secret affairs, than Joe Blow on the corner, or psycho-somebody on an internet chat-site? Maybe. Unless you factor in that his comments may be a way to help sell his many books. Then it can be suspected his motivation is profit right? https://www.google.com/#q=paul+hellyer+books 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendigger0 Posted January 22, 2014 #106 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Unless you factor in that his comments may be a way to help sell his many books. Then it can be suspected his motivation is profit right? https://www.google.c...l hellyer books Anything can be suspected... we evaluate Paul Hellyer's motives, sincerity, on our own terms. Personally, i don't believe his primary motivation is money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted January 22, 2014 #107 Share Posted January 22, 2014 And yet he tells these stories with no proof while making a living selling books about it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted January 22, 2014 #108 Share Posted January 22, 2014 In my view, you are misjudging. It seems to be a simplistic view of other's people opinions and interests. I find your view even more simplistic? Please feel free to elaborate further and provide any evidence you have that indicates why these people voted for the poll like they did, I have a bit more on that below supported by a link. My point is not about the validity or truth of this show, rather that there is a fair amount of people ready to listen and consider these kind ideas and theories. Therefore it is not suprising at all that Mr Hellyer easily find an audience. My points are entirely about truth and validity if his claims, that is what should be pertinent in this discussion considering the forum title. Stephen Greer found the audience, Hellyer jumped on the bandwagon. He obviously has an audience or this discussion would not be happening, not sure what your point is there? The box office history of Star Wars is not a good comparison, rather the fascination of the public for these Paranormal, Aliens, Ghosts concepts that are the roots of it. Where be the difference between fantasy and fantasy? A recent Huffington/YouGov poll of September 2013 suggest 48% of Americans believe in UFO as Aliens (http://www.huffingto..._n_3900669.html) Again I ask - and? Please read This LINK A new series is coming on Discovery Science called ''Close encounters'' you may want to check that out. The fact is that it makes good money for the cable TV and will assuredly draw an audience. Surely you know that? Why on earth would I want to do that to myself? Yes, it was enough for the History Channel, the Discovery Channel and National Geographic to sell out, They are now entertainment programs not science shows. The only ones left that appear to have any integrity are PBS and BBC. That to me illustrates that UFOlogy is damaging, just like how UFOlogy was responsible for holding back Plasma research. I won't advocate that, and frankly, I cannot fathom why people do. I feel people who do that who are in responsible positions are letting everyone down. You have every right to your freedom of thought and speech. But just as you may disagree with people, others may do the same with you. It is my understanding as well that Mr Hellyer is wrong and I do not agree with his speculations. However, I cannot say that he purposedly try to deceive people in a malicious way as certain UFO supporters and conspiracy theorists did. I think he genuinely believe what he says regardless of how wrong and out of the track he may be. Despite his lack of criticism and his confidence in the theories he profundly believes in, he has been honest on the matters that interested me most: He admitted in interviews that he never heard, got or gleaned any informations concerning his claims while in function of Minister of Defense. He might have lied and used that former position to deceive but he didn't. See the bolded? That is where you are going wrong. He is saying this is fact, no two ways about it, and his exaggerations are outrageous, he is using an appeal to authority to call Corso's book fact. He never says this is belief, he openly states "this is fact" That is the problem with Hellyer, and because he says things like UFO's and Pilots have casual conversations about flight maneuvers, and he says that is fact, and it happens, That he never heard or gleaned a single thing does not matter to the FTB's, they say his information is correct because he says this is fact, not speculation, and play on the appeal to authority. Playing on his appeal to authority to state what he calls facts is totally dishonest, and reprehensible. Honestly, not sure how I can make that clearer. His claims are not supported by solid evidences. That point is quite clear in this debate I think. I know that you have this matter to heart and care about the truth as I do but he is not the only one claiming all sort of things and present it as facts in these subjects of UFOs and Aliens nor will he be the last. If you think that Mr Hellyer has no credibility and is the worst Minister of Defense of all time, why then begging for proof? It shoud be quite obvious for you that he does not have the truth of it. Some might call it ''kicking a man on the ground.'' Yes, this is the matter at heart. Yes, I was putting the boot in, that is what has offended you, he offends my sense of logic and common sense. Perhaps he was not the worst minister of all time, I concede that to you, as you indicate you are Canadian, and you are one that is happy with his reforms, so if he made a citizen happy with the too bright green uniforms, so be it, I concede on his controversial actions based upon local experience, that does not take away from the fact he is a liar and batty as hell. Who says that the man has influence, pray? Certainly not me. His beliefs and interpretations does not stem from having witnessed things as a Minister Of Defense and in politics. I also have stated many times that his passion came from books, ufology, conspiracy theory ect. The stuffs any one can cheaply get online or in the backstore of a local librairy. I said, and I quote: There is no mystery surrounding his influences at all, You said: It is likely that he made researches and study of UFOs and Aliens stuffs That is another claim of his that I do not believe based on his insane rantings. I would call research looking into the phenomena over a number of years from both sides of the table, not reading a few fictional novels, and then reciting them in the guise of speeches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted January 22, 2014 #109 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I'm certain it's safe to say that Paul Hellyer, while Minister of Defense (Canada), developed relationships with other cabinet level people through-out the world. I suggest that the conclusions he has come to, regarding "aliens" and/or "ufos", are tempered somewhat by his network of acquaintances in, or formerly in, cabinet-level positions worldwide. That is not what Hellyer says is it? Do you read anything before you post? Does Paul Hellyer have more credibility, concerning Top Secret affairs, than Joe Blow on the corner, or psycho-somebody on an internet chat-site? Maybe. No, he does not with regards to the ETH. If you want to know how to dye Uniforms, he is your man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted January 22, 2014 #110 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Anything can be suspected... we evaluate Paul Hellyer's motives, sincerity, on our own terms. Personally, i don't believe his primary motivation is money. What do you think his primary motivation actually is? LINK - Government of Canada Provides Open Access to UFO X-Files To play Greers game of "Let's Pretend The US Government is Hiding Aliens"? Every Government other than the US has "opened their files" there is nothing there. You are another one that thinks the US Government is the only Government in the world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DONTEATUS Posted January 22, 2014 #111 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Bottom line our government mostlikely couldnt really hide a postage stamp form the prying eyes and ears of the Great Brainaics of the Good Old U of M C.T`s and Debunkers ! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted January 23, 2014 #112 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Bottom line our government mostlikely couldnt really hide a postage stamp form the prying eyes and ears of the Great Brainaics of the Good Old U of M C.T`s and Debunkers ! I agree! Thing is, these guys are telling me the Government is Hiding stuff and cannot be trusted, but one should trust Government people who advocate ET. Seems ironic to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendigger0 Posted January 23, 2014 #113 Share Posted January 23, 2014 And yet he tells these stories with no proof while making a living selling books about it. He derives his "living" from selling books? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Terreur Posted January 23, 2014 #114 Share Posted January 23, 2014 He derives his "living" from selling books? he derives the money he needs to suspend his "living" from it, that is.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted January 23, 2014 #115 Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) I find your view even more simplistic? Please feel free to elaborate further and provide any evidence you have that indicates why these people voted for the poll like they did, I have a bit more on that below supported by a link. I agree, a poll on it's own has a limited value and bias is certainly not excluded. However I am aware of several other polls done in the last years, that support the thread: Many people do believe in UFO as Alien beings. I would go as far as saying that Aliens beliefs are increasingly taking the spot of Religions but that's a personal view even though some researches actually suggest that more people believe in Aliens than God. (see above link) http://www.ibtimes.c...popular-1166661 (Policy Public Pollings) http://www.reuters.c...E6374B220100408 (The Reuters Ipsos Poll) http://www.foxnews.c...os-survey-says/ and http://www.space.com...om...oll.html (Kelton Research) http://usatoday30.us...rvey/55843742/1 (National Geographic Survey) http://www.educating...sults-2013.html (Survata Market research) http://www.express.c...od-reveals-poll (Xcom & Opinion Matters) Well, a slight difference of the numbers can be noted but the thrend is pretty clear. The ratings and insatiable curiosity of UFOs and Aliens TV shows is another indication of the fascination the public hold for these subjects. The advancement of space science and the impact it has is something else to consider as well. No wonder Mr Hellyer's claims and that of many other Extraterrestrial supporters are easily believed. I am sorry if that displease you but to me that's quite clear. See the bolded? That is where you are going wrong.He is saying this is fact, no two ways about it, and his exaggerations are outrageous, he is using an appeal to authority to call Corso's book fact. He never says this is belief, he openly states "this is fact" That is the problem with Hellyer, and because he says things like UFO's and Pilots have casual conversations about flight maneuvers, and he says that is fact, and it happens, That he never heard or gleaned a single thing does not matter to the FTB's, they say his information is correct because he says this is fact, not speculation, and play on the appeal to authority. Playing on his appeal to authority to state what he calls facts is totally dishonest, and reprehensible. Honestly, not sure how I can make that clearer. "I do not have proof of that," he told AOL News. "But I believe that they have developed energy sources, and publicly I'm saying that if they do not exist in commercial form, that extraterrestrials would certainly give us that information if we would ask them for it and stop shooting at them." Source: http://news.cnet.com...0036960-71.html Same thing with his book Light At The End Of The Tunnel, I've not read personally read it, but I've heard that there a lot of ambiguities and believe. So, while he may want to convince people, and present some of his ideas and speculations as facts, (Many fervant religious folks do the exact same thing but may go unnoticed) The lack of solid evidence is enough to convince a skeptical person that he is out of the track and plain wrong. In my opinion, letting an old man rambling is a much more efficient way than witch-hunting and declaring ''dumb'' every folks who believe or consider his speculations. But I guess we have different views on how to express our skepticism and get our message through. Not sure why his career of politican could be any proof of that or have any authority, all he was aware of as a Minister Of Defense is UFO reports, as any governement around the world have on a regular basis. He admitted it himself in interviews. Nothing substantial. Edited January 23, 2014 by sam_comm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markprice Posted January 23, 2014 #116 Share Posted January 23, 2014 That you were not aware of that document already is very telling. It has been a topic of discussion several times here at UM. And there is absolutely nothing groundbreaking in it. If you feel differently, please do feel free to elaborate, but I can almost promise you that every speck on that document has been examined here and found to carry no weight. Cheers, Badeskov Right, I didn't see a UFO that cannot be explained until last year, so I had no interest in documents I was not even aware of. I did see one of the president Carter style colored fireballs many years ago but thought it was just a massive crazy meteor. Just today I began to see recorded evidence of that kind of thing. I'm glad you guys know your history but that is never an excuse for jaded one sided opinion. Experience that cannot be denied carries more weight ...and the cover-up is not "conspiracy theory" but observable fact after the fact time and time again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calibeliever Posted January 23, 2014 #117 Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) Once again no "evidence" is presented. *sigh* Another aging official telling us that there are benevolent overlords living amongst us and they are displeased. To address an earlier post about the technology: That was covered in Corso's book, which Hellyer read. The jist of it is that Bell labs and others were directed to create a back-story to explain how they were able to make the breakthroughs that lead to fiber optics, lasers, etc. after Corso gave them these objects out of his file cabinet. Because well, obviously we are just too ign'ant to have come up with any of those things ourselves. Edit: spelling and general bad typ[ink Edited January 23, 2014 by Calibeliever 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scowl Posted January 23, 2014 #118 Share Posted January 23, 2014 The jist of it is that Bell labs and others were directed to create a back-story to explain how they were able to make the breakthroughs that lead to fiber optics, lasers, etc. after Corso gave them these objects out of his file cabinet. Because well, obviously we are just too ign'ant to have come up with any of those things ourselves. So that explains how all of these inventions mysteriously appeared out of nowhere! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted January 24, 2014 #119 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I agree, a poll on it's own has a limited value and bias is certainly not excluded. As such, I fail to understand what it is you feel you are proving here. That some people believe Hellyer? I do not believe I have challenged that position? I have maintained thst because he preys on the gullible, he is not what I consider a "good person. However I am aware of several other polls done in the last years, that support the thread: And I am sure you do not mind us taking a closer look at them? Many people do believe in UFO as Alien beings. I would go as far as saying that Aliens beliefs are increasingly taking the spot of Religions but that's a personal view even though some researches actually suggest that more people believe in Aliens than God. (see above link) They may well take over religion some day, UFO religious cults are popping u all over the place, and not one of them honest or good. Scientology Killed Lisa McPherson and The Raelian Movement is funded by it's own prostitution ring and has extremely liberal views on underage sex Enough so to have the "leader" banned in some countries. Nothing good is coming from this belief. And that is not mentioning cults that have killed, or individuals who have preyed on this false belief in order to kill or hurt others for personal gain. And I feel it is a fake belief. To my mind there are two very different sets of people looking at the UFO phenomena, we have the crackpot contingent hellbent on lying to sell books and hopes and dreams to avoid having to actually work and become part of society, and then we have the honest crowd - The Hawking's, The Fermi's The Greenes, the Kakus, who have a clue, and whom are regularly robbed of credibility to support the previously mentioned charlatans. I see nothing wrong with exposing the snake oil salesmen here, and without doubt, Hellyer is a lazy SOB who jumped on the ETH bandwagon to fool people into giving him attention. http://www.ibtimes.c...popular-1166661 (Policy Public Pollings) I think the title says it all here don't you? New Poll Shows Large Number Of Americans Believe In Popular Conspiracy Theories. Now what does that tells us? From the link: According to a national poll released this week by Public Policy Polling on conspiracy theories, you are one of the few. In fact, a large number of participants believe in cover-ups and distrust government authority. The poll tested 20 popular conspiracy theories including the belief in a UFO crash in Roswell, N.M., and the existence of Bigfoot. Some of the most shocking figures include the 29 percent who believe aliens exist. There’s a small 4 percent who think “lizard people” are trying to control society and gain power. A group of 13 percent think President Barack Obama is the Antichrist and 14 percent believe the CIA was involved in creating a crack cocaine epidemic in America’s inner cities during the 1980’s It says people have some wild unsupported belief - and what's the ET count here? 29%. And that is just "Aliens exist" Not visiting Earth, two very, very different things, and not what Hellyer is saying at all. http://www.reuters.c...E6374B220100408 (The Reuters Ipsos Poll) Miss this bit did you? From the link: However, the majority of people polled, or 80 percent, don't believe aliens in our midst. China has a large belief? WTF? That's the place where they decide your religion for you right? http://www.foxnews.c...os-survey-says/ LOL, yeah Fox never entertains bias does it......... Still, lets look: A new survey finds that 80 million Americans, or 36 percent of the population, believe UFOs are real. One in 10 respondents say they have personally witnessed an alien spaceship. And if aliens were to invade the country sometime in the next four years, 65 percent of survey respondents said President Obama would be better suited for handling the invasion than Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney. Look at the subject bias, Since when did UFO=Alien spaceship? People were asked some dumb questions, and some people responded, I am not sure what you are proving here other than gullible people exist, which I said way back when? Obama would be better to handle an Alien Invasion? I am starting to think you do not seem to understand that this is a discussion forum and a place to attempt to resolve mysteries? Look, I can offer better and far more interesting Fox announcements than that rubbish! and http://www.space.com...om...oll.html (Kelton Research) Hrrmz yes lovely...... 404 ErrorThe page you're looking for isn't here. Luck for us, your previous link covers that very study- - were you aware you had posted the same information twice? Here look: The market research company Kelton Research conducted the survey by polling a random nationwide sample of 1,114 Americans ages 18 and older, who were representative of the demographics of the nation as a whole. The survey was commissioned by the National Geographic Channel to promote its new series "Chasing UFOs." Why was the survey done? As such, does the result surprise you? Do you honestly expect something else? Back to the link on survey sampling bias? http://usatoday30.us...rvey/55843742/1 (National Geographic Survey) A third of Earthlings believe in UFOs, would befriend aliens Different theme yet again. So what is people think that aliens are cute and cuddly, or horrible monsters, if anything, that illustrates the flippant nature of the subject as a whole!!! http://www.educating...sults-2013.html (Survata Market research) This one is considering the belief systems, and how they affect ET speculation! New Poll on Extraterrestrials by Religions Provides Surprising Results, http://www.express.c...od-reveals-poll (Xcom & Opinion Matters) And this one is not speaking to people about belief, it is comparing people who believe in religion and how many people believe in aliens - ignoring the very facta great many people believe in both, not one or the other, so it is dishonest to begin with!! And it say 60% of people? The first link says 29% Reuters says 20%, Fox says 36%. What is it, and why should I believe such random numbers have any merit for anything? I see sampling boas. You know what else I see? That you used a very broad brush, what you have illustrated is that a UFO/ETH culture exists. Well, no kidding. Thats why people say they believe in these polls, nothing to do with information, but pop culture. And Hellyer is tainting that culture with lies via an appeal to authority for personal gain. Because people believe him makes that worse, not understandable. Ancient Alien people re-write conventional history to sell rubbish books and TV shows. That is robbing my as yet unborn grandchildren of a real history lesson, they do not have the right to alter historical record for personal gain. It is my right to insist people think rather than let Hellyers brain vomit fill their cranial cavities because I belong to this society too. Some people love to take hard drugs, it is not OK that they really enjoy it, because they affect those around them - society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted January 24, 2014 #120 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Because I answered your links individually, the forum requires that I post the number of posts in two separate instances. It is a pain, it happens all the time. Well, a slight difference of the numbers can be noted but the thrend is pretty clear. The ratings and insatiable curiosity of UFOs and Aliens TV shows is another indication of the fascination the public hold for these subjects. The advancement of space science and the impact it has is something else to consider as well. Overall 29% through to 60%. That's double. That trend tells me the numbers are a pile of Horse Hockey and mean squat. Because people have a fascination for the unknown does not give an individual the right to use an appeal to authority to gain an unfair advantage to spread BS for personal gain and attention. As far as I am aware, that is considered taking advantage of someone. It is our duty as citizens in a society to curb that vile practise. All I have done is expose that. No wonder Mr Hellyer's claims and that of many other Extraterrestrial supporters are easily believed. Easily is a very strong word, I do not think that applies here. The gullible seeking personal validation for personal beliefs seems more appropriate. I sure do not believe him for a second, and from what I see, few critical thinkers do. I am sorry if that displease you but to me that's quite clear. I am afraid you just do not understand me or critical thinking. I am hardly upset. I object to Hellyers claims that ETs are here and real as the planes that fly over your head. "I do not have proof of that," he told AOL News. "But I believe that they have developed energy sources, and publicly I'm saying that if they do not exist in commercial form, that extraterrestrials would certainly give us that information if we would ask them for it and stop shooting at them." Source: http://news.cnet.com...0036960-71.html Really? I had you beyond such underhanded tactics such as Cherry Picking, or removing a quote from context to give it a different meaning that would support your personal view. I am disappointed, and I am going to quote that entire passage to show it says nothing like what you said. Hellyer does indeed say that Aliens are visiting Earth, and that we (WE??) shoot them down. That quote you mined was about Shadow Governments who reverse engineer aliens, it's the bloody opposite of what you claimed it said!!!! Look Here: Hellyer insists he has seen UFOs. In his book, "Light at the End of the Tunnel," he said he also believes that the U.S. has a "shadow government" that has black ops installations that have already created new forms of energy using extra-terrestrial technology. "I do not have proof of that," he told AOL News. "But I believe that they have developed energy sources, and publicly I'm saying that if they do not exist in commercial form, that extraterrestrials would certainly give us that information if we would ask them for it and stop shooting at them." He says a Shadow Government is unevidenced, but not ET, he is here and now!!!!!! If you are going to be dishonest about it, just leave the discussion right now please!!!! Same thing with his book Light At The End Of The Tunnel, I've not read personally read it, but I've heard that there a lot of ambiguities and believe. You have heard? Heck, after the above, I am not going to trust your "intuition" mate. Why even bother? Unless you are impressed with appeals to Authority? So, while he may want to convince people, and present some of his ideas and speculations as facts, (Many fervant religious folks do the exact same thing but may go unnoticed) The lack of solid evidence is enough to convince a skeptical person that he is out of the track and plain wrong. In my opinion, letting an old man rambling is a much more efficient way than witch-hunting and declaring ''dumb'' every folks who believe or consider his speculations. But I guess we have different views on how to express our skepticism and get our message through. I think the Catholic Religion did not go unnoticed in recent times? Same thing. Ignorance is not "dumb" it is uninformed, and with a large portion of these statistics here, my experience is that we are dealing with the latter. If he can spread BS, it seems natural that someone, like me perhaps, would correct that, and take a dim view of his dishonest ramblings. Ignorance can be cured, what Hellyer is selling is deliberate ignorance, and fleecing people for it. You are completely wrong about the above, he does not say it is a belief, I would be OK with that, he states in no uncertain terms that he is communicating fact. Why do you refuse to admit that he states Aliens visiting earth is a fact? I am not making that up, fantasy is Hellyers field, and I have backed that with his own words. Try this Hellyer quote on, explain this one away!! “The reality is that they’ve (aliens) been visiting Earth for decades and probably millennia and have contributed considerably to our knowledge, Not seeing any ambiguity there myself, you? Not sure why his career of politican could be any proof of that or have any authority, all he was aware of as a Minister Of Defense is UFO reports, as any governement around the world have on a regular basis. He admitted it himself in interviews. Nothing substantial. That's the point, it's not, but it is why people listen to him. Articles do not state "Paul Hellyer" says ET is real, they say "Former Canadian Minister Of Defence Says ET is real". Again, he did not admit that he is speculating, he said and I quote: UFOs Are as Real As Airplanes Flying Over Our Heads He is not saying he thikns that is the case, he is not saying that is speculation, he is saying this is happening. He also says: that 50 UFO in formation flew south from Russia across Europe. And that The Supreme Allied Command was very concerned and almost ready to push the "Panic Button" when the UFOs just turned around and headed back towards the North Pole. Or that no serious scientists ever publicly confirmed evidence of an encounter with extraterrestrials, because they would have to go out of their way not to find out. Note the use of the word "Confirmed" there. He says scientists know too, but refuse to tell us!! Seriously???? He also states that eighty species of extraterrestrials visiting our planet. Most look just like you and me and you would not be able to identify them walking down the street. He also says that most of the alien species have good intentions, and would like to help the human species. The reason that they don't is because they have some kind of rule that they do not interfere with our affairs unless invited. You do know what he said about Professor Hawking? “I think he’s indulging in some pretty scary talk there that I would have hoped would not come from someone with such an established stature,” . “I think it’s really sad that a scientist of his repute would contribute to what I would consider more misinformation about a vast and very important subject.” You know what is ironic here? Hawking was speculating. Hellyer did not even read Hawking's full statement, and made this inane comment, which UFO sites hold up as if worthy of recognition!! It's a stupid misunderstanding on Hellyers behalf!!! And to even indicate he knows more than Hawking is hugely illustrating his over inflated ego, and in my mind, an unfounded attack on actual research into the subject, just like UFOlogy held back plasma studies for decades. Probably his stupidest comment to date I would guess. He outright states that Pilots and Aliens discuss flight maneuvers, but no Pilots names. HIs friends call the claims speculation, he does not, and he has tried to rope them into his travelling show as well, Liberal Senator Colin Kenny was approached by Hellyer in late 2005 and asked to hold public hearings on Canadian exopolitics. But the friendship was not quite enough for Kenny to insult his own logic and common sense. Kenny however understood Hawking's statement, he voiced that he realised it was opinion when asked what he though of Hellyers over reaction and public statements. You are plain wrong about speculation, no two ways about it. And I honestly think you just want to "take down a skeptic" and have little interest in the truth, yes I put to boot in when he was down, get over it. At least I can admit to my failings. You and Hellyer do not seem to possess that ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted January 24, 2014 #121 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Right, I didn't see a UFO that cannot be explained until last year, so I had no interest in documents I was not even aware of. Most people here have a much deeper interest, and have been following it for some time, for you to come in here and start telling people who walked that path you are now years or even decades ago is quite a cheek wouldn't you say? I did see one of the president Carter style colored fireballs many years ago but thought it was just a massive crazy meteor. No reason to think it was anything else, Carter did not think his UFO was an alien spaceship. And he said so himself. In fact he said: “A light appeared and disappeared in the sky,” “It got brighter and brighter … I have no idea what it was … I think it was a light beckoning me to run in the California primary.” Just today I began to see recorded evidence of that kind of thing. Sorry? What kind of thing meteors or aliens? I'm glad you guys know your history but that is never an excuse for jaded one sided opinion. How do you come to that conclusion? Not enough supporting evidence? Honestly, if that is the case, I find that hard to believe, it really sounds much more like you are jaded to find the people who can think happen to think the ETH is total bunkum., and only the very uninformed seem to support it in this forum. Experience that cannot be denied carries more weight ... Lets be frank here - are you speaking experience, or an appeal to authority? and the cover-up is not "conspiracy theory" but observable fact after the fact time and time again. The US/UFO/ET cover up fails because the ETH is global. The cover up is a fantasy. Every country except the US has "opened it's files" and we trust our Governments more than you lot seem to. The US cannot keep a secret that relies on global coverage, that is as insane as suggesting that the US never went to the Moon, and Russia would not know if they did or did not, when Russia were the first ones in space!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted January 24, 2014 #122 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Once again no "evidence" is presented. *sigh* Another aging official telling us that there are benevolent overlords living amongst us and they are displeased. To address an earlier post about the technology: That was covered in Corso's book, which Hellyer read. The jist of it is that Bell labs and others were directed to create a back-story to explain how they were able to make the breakthroughs that lead to fiber optics, lasers, etc. after Corso gave them these objects out of his file cabinet. Because well, obviously we are just too ign'ant to have come up with any of those things ourselves. Edit: spelling and general bad typ[ink Perhaps an even bigger mystery is who went around filling encyclopaedias, notebooks, filing cabinets with drawings notes and experiments that produced said items, some with histories stemming back as far as the turn of the century. That's even more impressive than the CIA going into attics and basements unannounced to recover and replace every single high school yearbook with Bob Lazar in it to disprove his story!!!!!! These guys must think the average person is a hopeless moron who will believe anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DONTEATUS Posted January 24, 2014 #123 Share Posted January 24, 2014 WEll ! You First maka a step to the left,then a jump to the right, put your hands on your hip,and then do the pelvic thrust ! Now Were talking Time warp ! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendigger0 Posted January 24, 2014 #124 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Consensus on Paul Hellyer... he's an old guy, dribbling some words, hoping to make a buck. No credibility what-so-ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted January 24, 2014 #125 Share Posted January 24, 2014 WEll ! You First maka a step to the left,then a jump to the right, put your hands on your hip,and then do the pelvic thrust ! Now Were talking Time warp ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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