gantonio45 Posted January 14, 2014 #1 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I, like many of you on this site am one that likes to ask questions. I have a tendency to look beyond what we are presented through main stream media, and I definitely like to ask questions. I think it's naturally healthy to ask questions. I also believe that we as humans would be selling ourselves short if we did not exercise our ability to consciously perceive the world around us, and ask questions as a result of processing this information. Which lead me to think about this today, and keep in mind this is just for the sake of good discussion and perplexing thought. It's Friday, January 17, 2014. You awaken at your normal time, and as you turn on your television for background noise you merely go about your daily routine of preparing for the day. Just then you hear the familiar sound of "Breaking News" on your station, and we're brought to whomever the correspondence liaison is. The breaking news is that the President will have a special news conference at the end of the work day, and he urges that every American citizen be prepared to listen. At 5pm, you arrive home just twenty minutes before the President is set to take the podium. You've been wondering all day what sort of "huge" announcement could require a speech on a late Friday evening from the head of our country. The President takes the podium finally and he begins by saying that it is time for a major change in America, and it needs to begin with transparency between the government and the very people of the nation that elect that government. The President goes on to make the shocking announcement and admit that the government had been doing what they felt was in the best interest of the public. He admits that one of the biggest "conspiracy theories" in discussion is actually founded on true facts. He admits, the government is and was responsible for... And this is where I leave it up to all of you. Members of UM, for all our discussions and theories of conspiracies conducted behind our backs; I propose to you, for no other reason than discussion: What if the government admitted the truth about any conspiracy? What do you think it would be? Why do you think they would finally come clean? What would your personal reaction be? How do feel the majority of people would react? Where would the country go from that point forward? Now I also understand it is highly, highly unlikely the government would ever admit to any wrongdoings from a cover-up standpoint. This is just a purely hypothetical question to raise good nature discussion. Please be respectful of everyone's opinions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obviousman Posted January 14, 2014 #2 Share Posted January 14, 2014 When it happens, I'll tell you. People had said similar for so many major conspiracy theories throughout history and so far none have ever been proved correct. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obviousman Posted January 14, 2014 #3 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Let me try another approach: A meeting of major proponents of conspiracy theories takes place: UFOs, JFK, 9-11, Chemtrails, etc. They announce that after exhaustive investigation, no evidence exists for their theories and they are giving up on them. It will never happen but one could hope...... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted January 14, 2014 #4 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Let me try another approach: A meeting of major proponents of conspiracy theories takes place: UFOs, JFK, 9-11, Chemtrails, etc. They announce that after exhaustive investigation, no evidence exists for their theories and they are giving up on them. It will never happen but one could hope...... There is always evidence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted January 14, 2014 #5 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Well, the current President would never reveal that the U.S. Govt. had had any complicity in 9/11, unless he had decided that to make himself a martyr and make sure that history would see him in the same way as JFK, since that would absolutely guarantee that he'd very shortly be bumped off, wouldn't it .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Terreur Posted January 14, 2014 #6 Share Posted January 14, 2014 i don't want to speculate, but what i'd LIKE to hear is: "Ladies and Gentlemen, rumors were true all along. The government of the US, as well as any other country, deliberately encouraged and helped crazy people to push forward conspiracy theories. The wilder, the better. Back then, we simply thought that the more people think about sinister plans we're hatching, the more they believe we're MUCH MORE POWERFUL and not as ****ed up as we actually are. Thank you very much, peace out, the Prez" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gantonio45 Posted January 15, 2014 Author #7 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Well, it was just a topic I thought about. Not that I every expect, and it would be incredibly foolish if a national government ever admitted to being in on something. Just hoped to start some discussion is all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted January 15, 2014 #8 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Well, it was just a topic I thought about. Not that I every expect, and it would be incredibly foolish if a national government ever admitted to being in on something. Just hoped to start some discussion is all. And you would think that would be perfectly reasonable in such a place as this. Unfortunitly most of the folks here have no interest in conspiracies at all. They are here to mock and ridicule folks who do like to talk about such things. I dont spend a whole lot of time in this section anymore. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted January 15, 2014 #9 Share Posted January 15, 2014 And you would think that would be perfectly reasonable in such a place as this. Unfortunitly most of the folks here have no interest in conspiracies at all. They are here to mock and ridicule folks who do like to talk about such things. I dont spend a whole lot of time in this section anymore. I have to say that it seems to be the same in other parts as well, If anyone does try to float any speculative boats about religion or extraterrestrial life or anything, they always seem to be shot down by the Hard Nosed Skeptic fraternity, who seem to feel it's their mission in life to crush all speculative thinking and that we should all just accept the Facts as we're told by the skeptics and the Experts. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted January 15, 2014 #10 Share Posted January 15, 2014 And you would think that would be perfectly reasonable in such a place as this. Unfortunitly most of the folks here have no interest in conspiracies at all. They are here to mock and ridicule folks who do like to talk about such things. I dont spend a whole lot of time in this section anymore. I don't see much mockery and ridicule; what I do see is a lot of debunking and people not liking it. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted January 15, 2014 #11 Share Posted January 15, 2014 I have to say that it seems to be the same in other parts as well, If anyone does try to float any speculative boats about religion or extraterrestrial life or anything, they always seem to be shot down by the Hard Nosed Skeptic fraternity, who seem to feel it's their mission in life to crush all speculative thinking and that we should all just accept the Facts as we're told by the skeptics and the Experts. Most of us are interested, very very interested, in the possibility that certain things are true, and would love to see good evidence. Even speculation is great, so long as it is presented as that and not as truths. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaeton80 Posted January 15, 2014 #12 Share Posted January 15, 2014 When it happens, I'll tell you. People had said similar for so many major conspiracy theories throughout history and so far none have ever been proved correct. Indeed, its all paranoid delusional bs. None of that sh is true. The government is our best friend dont you know. 'Get a life.' http://www.businessinsider.com/true-government-conspiracies-2013-12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted January 15, 2014 #13 Share Posted January 15, 2014 really I think, regarding the question at the beginning, which theory would they be most likely to come clean about? Really I think that any President or Administration that admitted that previous or current Administrations had been involved in some great crime, like 9/11 or assassinating previous Presidents, then they'd literally be announcing their own suicide. It's been said that, if Whistleblowers were bumped off in suspicious circumstances, that would prove that they were right, which is why they don't do it, but if a Prsident announced that members of some former administration had been involved in some great crime, they'd have nothing to lose by shutting him up, would they? It would be public knowledge by then that U.S. Government had been complicit in atrocities, so they'd have nothing to lose, in fact they'd drive home the message to anyone else to keep their mouth shut. I think what would probably be the most likely, in that the President would feel that he'd by putting himself least at risk by revealing, would be that we've been visited over a long time by Extraterrestrials and that the U.S. and/or other world Govts. has had some contact with them, at least. They could present that as being cautious and careful and putting Public Safety first, by making sure that they were Trustworthy before letting the world know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted January 15, 2014 #14 Share Posted January 15, 2014 It would be interesting if someone did a poll on what the rest of the world thinks about the JFK assassination ~ so far as far as I have I the opportunity to talk with the more informed on the matter and issue ~ I can safely say that not one ... aye not a single one buys the Lee Harvey Oswald lone assassin conclusion or the Warren Commission Report ... and yes .. they have read it and knows the points raised from both sides of the divide ... ~ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Liquid Gardens Posted January 15, 2014 #15 Share Posted January 15, 2014 And you would think that would be perfectly reasonable in such a place as this. Unfortunitly most of the folks here have no interest in conspiracies at all. I think there are a lot of people interested in conspiracies here, actually I've never encountered so many gathered together in one place. Lots of people are interested mostly in the evidence for conspiracies, and I can't say on that front that what is usually provided is actually that good. What exactly is the problem with disagreeing and rebutting points, isn't that exactly what pro-conspiracy people do also? They are here to mock and ridicule folks who do like to talk about such things. Ha, that's a funny one, would you like a mirror? This from the guy who less than a week ago posted on the Alex Jones thread, "You are all a bunch of sadistic freaks making excuses, for the scum of the earth". Stay consistent, preacher... Actually, I would think that you would be free to create a thread topic and put in the OP that you don't want anyone to post any disagreement; I would think that would be consistent with the forum rules that require on-topic posting. I personally would gladly avoid posting in such an echo chamber if that's the discussion you were looking to have. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Liquid Gardens Posted January 15, 2014 #16 Share Posted January 15, 2014 I have to say that it seems to be the same in other parts as well, If anyone does try to float any speculative boats about religion or extraterrestrial life or anything, they always seem to be shot down by the Hard Nosed Skeptic fraternity, who seem to feel it's their mission in life to crush all speculative thinking and that we should all just accept the Facts as we're told by the skeptics and the Experts. Can I play too? "I have to say that it seems that if anyone dares to question the basis upon which some conspiracy theories are based they always seem to be attacked by the 'You're-a-Bunch-of-Credulous-Sheeple' fraternity, who seem to feel it is their mission in life to poo-poo the normal requirement of evidence for their claims and that we should all just accept the Facts and Interpretations as we're told by someone on a Youtube video" I'm being snarky there obviously Rhubarb, but I think where your statement fails, as already noted, is in the 'speculative' part. I don't usually see the normal CT stuff posted here qualified at all as being 'speculative'. And I'm not sure why you are just pointing out what skeptics do, I don't see much difference in approach or method in how non-skeptics post either in regards to this. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc14 Posted January 15, 2014 #17 Share Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) And you would think that would be perfectly reasonable in such a place as this. Unfortunitly most of the folks here have no interest in conspiracies at all. They are here to mock and ridicule folks who do like to talk about such things. I dont spend a whole lot of time in this section anymore. Keep setting them up and we'll keep knocking them down. It isn't that hard to do, just takes a little logic and few facts, things your CT's never consist of and crunch goes the silliness. Post a real CT and we'll have something to talk about. As far as all the 911 nonsense, does anyone really think that the present administration and its cabal of crazies in the legislative branch wouldn't spill the beans on GW Bush and Dick Cheney? Edited January 15, 2014 by Merc14 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rashore Posted January 15, 2014 #18 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Gosh, there's a bunch of them out there to choose from. Just going with the general fun of the thread... Area 51 being full of alien stuff would be neat. I think a lot of people would take it pretty calmly honestly. Aliens have been part of our culture an lore for quite a while now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacelizard667 Posted January 15, 2014 #19 Share Posted January 15, 2014 The government invests itself in 'damage control' to imply that anything which could get their 'conspiracy' stamp of disapproval is then cleared up and squared away, without so much as a ripple on the surface of the public's consciousness. It's what the NSA and the CIA do for a living and what we pay our taxes for. I am just sayin'.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gantonio45 Posted January 15, 2014 Author #20 Share Posted January 15, 2014 The government invests itself in 'damage control' to imply that anything which could get their 'conspiracy' stamp of disapproval is then cleared up and squared away, without so much as a ripple on the surface of the public's consciousness. It's what the NSA and the CIA do for a living and what we pay our taxes for. I am just sayin'.... You raise a good point, which is what has always made me wonder if (as some others have said) the government may allow certain topics to develop into a conspiracy. This way, while we're all searching for what may or may not be the truth, the government can very easily cover up the proof needed to find out that very truth. Sometimes, I feel it's a giant game of cat and mouse. But, as rashore has mentioned, I do believe that Area 51 could be the one that is MOST likely to come clean. Simply because there is already SO much evidence in the public about it, and now them finally admitting its existence could be the first step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obviousman Posted January 16, 2014 #21 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Most of us are interested, very very interested, in the possibility that certain things are true, and would love to see good evidence. Even speculation is great, so long as it is presented as that and not as truths. Indeed. I believe that there must be other intelligent life in the universe and visitation by a friendly species would be the greatest event in human history bar none. I am aware, however, of the great hurdles that a space-faring species would face if trying to traverse interstellar distances. That's why I don't accept poor or obviously doctored images of UFOs; why I don't accept half-baked theories or stories about visitation but instead demand evidence... or in the case of theories, at least a modicum of plausibility. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obviousman Posted January 16, 2014 #22 Share Posted January 16, 2014 But, as rashore has mentioned, I do believe that Area 51 could be the one that is MOST likely to come clean. Simply because there is already SO much evidence in the public about it, and now them finally admitting its existence could be the first step. This is where we disagree; there has not been anything substantial to support the theory that Area 51 has UFOs, etc. If anything, the reverse has been true. People who worked there in the 50s & 60s tell of developing the U-2, the YF-12A, the SR-71 and other highly secret aircraft. All the reports of sightings, the secrecy, etc, all support that Area 51 has previously been used as a secret advanced research and test facility for military aircraft. The technological developments are plausible, in most cases logical. As far as recent / current developments are concerned, then I can see exactly how the US would encourage speculation about Area 51 rather than simply confirm the mundane truth. By keeping interest in Area 51, it allows them to have another facility that performs the same purpose (advanced aircraft test / research) which is NOT being scrutinised to the same degree - if at all. Area 51 is a distraction, and the US is happy to have talk of UFOs, etc, continue to draw focus on that facility. In some ways it is like the issue I have with the large majority of CT proponents: they keep raising these absurd claims which are obviously crackpot even before any critical analysis is applied to them. It seems to feed the masses but provides active camouflage for those prosaic, ordinary - but real - conspiracies that are going on. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gantonio45 Posted January 16, 2014 Author #23 Share Posted January 16, 2014 As far as recent / current developments are concerned, then I can see exactly how the US would encourage speculation about Area 51 rather than simply confirm the mundane truth. By keeping interest in Area 51, it allows them to have another facility that performs the same purpose (advanced aircraft test / research) which is NOT being scrutinised to the same degree - if at all. Area 51 is a distraction, and the US is happy to have talk of UFOs, etc, continue to draw focus on that facility. I have to completely agree with you on this. I also have to clarify; I myself believe Area 51 is used for military and technological advancements. I do not believe it harbors the interactions and teamwork of humans and aliens. I was merely saying that out of all the conspiracies out there, Area 51 would be the most logical one to come clean about. Since many of the other theories have to do with obvious corruption(s) and/or outright murders of highly important people, such as JFK for example. Thus, if they were to come clean about Area 51 by admitting it is nothing more then a testing facility; it is the most logical one to admit to, while causing the least collateral damage to their overall image. But yes, I agree with you that it is also used as a distraction for people at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted January 16, 2014 #24 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Keep setting them up and we'll keep knocking them down. It isn't that hard to do, just takes a little logic and few facts, things your CT's never consist of and crunch goes the silliness. Post a real CT and we'll have something to talk about. Thank you for proving my point. At least you didnt bring up the comet thing again, saying I made claim to a conspiracy. It gets so bad here that if they have nothing to ridicule, they just make crap up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted January 16, 2014 #25 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I think there are a lot of people interested in conspiracies here, actually I've never encountered so many gathered together in one place. Lots of people are interested mostly in the evidence for conspiracies, and I can't say on that front that what is usually provided is actually that good. What exactly is the problem with disagreeing and rebutting points, isn't that exactly what pro-conspiracy people do also? They are not looking for evidence, they are looking for 100% proof. Big difference. And anything short of the government admiting it just wont do. Ha, that's a funny one, would you like a mirror? This from the guy who less than a week ago posted on the Alex Jones thread, "You are all a bunch of sadistic freaks making excuses, for the scum of the earth". Stay consistent, preacher... Actually, I would think that you would be free to create a thread topic and put in the OP that you don't want anyone to post any disagreement; I would think that would be consistent with the forum rules that require on-topic posting. I personally would gladly avoid posting in such an echo chamber if that's the discussion you were looking to have. Well yeah. That was a thread with 100% proof of a smaller point, which we all focused on. And that still wasnt even good enough to speculate for you folks. No, im not interested in creating such a thread. In order to make sure the rules were followed, Id have to report people. Im not a rat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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