anti-gravity may not be possible

[gadfly21]

Our current understanding of physics doesn't allow anti-gravity. In truth we do not understand the fundamentals of gravity just predicting it. Its still hypothetical with plotholes and gremlins and remains a mystery so how could we even say anti-gravity is impossible? We must first beable to understand and than manipulate it.

Fast forward the human race a thousand years to a million years from now and any technology you see would be just plain magic. Its likely we will even beable to manipulate the forces of nature but who can predict the future? No one.

[Astral Hillbilly]

Agreed. Being that we don't really know how gravity is generated to begin with, making any claim of how it would be un-generated is kind of pointless.

Great thought ! I wonder if a word exists for the opposite of gravity ?

Also, saying it's impossible to figure out is wrong. I've heard that said about a lot of things that do work now.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Astral Hillbilly

[nec207]

Seems like anti-gravity is used to describe anything that appears to defy or repulse gravity, whether or not it actually does. I don't think it exists.

Gravity and electromagnetism are two different forces .The electromagnetism like a meganets or levitating trains are not the same thing.

There no interaction with gravity .Meaning electromagnetism like a meganets or levitating trains to not interaction with gravity.

anything anti gravitational would be flung out off the planet and orbit in a heartbeat ~ so i guess if it does occur ~ you'll have to be right there to see it happen ~

Unless gravity can be controlled.

I think a coherent understanding of how Gravity seems to exist would be a good starting point. Is it really a force or is it an inexplicable (to date) consequence of String Theory or thermodynamics?

If Gravity has no fundamental particle (the Graviton) as seems likely, then Gravity waves as a consequence of ripples (or warping) in Spacetime also falls as a theory.

Under General relativity gravity is not force , but the effects of space time being effected by large mass.But on the quantum mechanics level

it acts more like force and caused by a graviton .

[nec207]

I can create anti-gravity with two opposing magnets. It's easy.

So can any one !! just jummp up as hard as you can (if you are lucky may be two feet of the ground ) ( some some animals can jump over 5 feet of the ground) you can take your had to pick up a big book of the ground .A rocket can lift of the ground and go to space !! A magnet can pick up car at the junkyard.

This is overcoming gravity by a force.This is not anti-graviton that cuses graviton to move away .

Edited January 17, 2014 by nec207

[DONTEATUS]

This past month , I have been thinking about anti-gravity and the more I think about it the more I disprove of anti-gravity is not possible.First the concept of anti-gravity came out of UFO researchers trying to explain how big craft not sucking in aire or blowing aire out , and no noise can stay in the aire.It has become popular for people advocating that NASAA do researcher into anti-gravity to revolutionized space industry and lower space cost!!

But anti-gravity is major taboo to talk about among scientist that I think is because they think you are a UFO junkie.So the only people who talk about it are the public and non scientist or amateurs in their own home trying to do research into it and some people that just want to get their name on coast to coast AM or the news paper.

Well Lockheed Martin and NASA does get some scrapped left over budget money and have done research into it wih no results.But that may be becuse of the scrapped left over budget money they get.

But looking at it from a scientific view point you could use scientific data to prove or disprove is the concept even possible , with out understanding how the propulsion system works!! Using brute force trying get anti-gravity working in shop with out understanding how gravity and anti-gravity work.

After talking to some people and thinking about this anti-gravity may be not be possible.Here is why.

If there was antigravity around moments after the big bang or doing big bang than disappeared ,There would be less effect of friction,and make a more uniform mass distribution than what we see today.Anti-gravity would just keep mass from forming structures like stars and planets.

Also the math and standard model does not support anti-gravity.So no hopes one day a big particle accelerator is going fined a anti-graviton moments after the big bang or doing big bang.

Also looking at UFO documentary on UFO's , it seems the craft is using electricity or monomagnetism propulsion system ( we have not found any magnetic monopole in nature at this time) base on the strong EMF field and RF interference to any thing electronic or electrical.So it does not look like UFO are using anti-gravity base on the strong EMF field and RF interference to any thing electronic or electrica.

What is your thoughts on anti-gravity or what UFO are using?

Welcome to the Show , The Show that Never Ends "nec207" You will Love this place As for anti-gravity Theres no telling what we will figure out in the Hundred years or so . The Universe has many secrets to teach us ! Keep an open mind,dont run too fast with your open mine as you take corners,spilliage is possible,ANd Keep looking up,and also in front of where your going ! Tips to live by ! Cheers justDONTEATUS

[SHaYap]

Unless gravity can be controlled.

... and dark matter in a bottle ?

This is overcoming gravity by a force.This is not anti-graviton that cuses graviton to move away .

~ whut ??

~edit - GrrrRRrrr Commander DonTeaTus post bumped me ...

Edited January 17, 2014 by third_eye

[DONTEATUS]

... and dark matter in a bottle ?

~ whut ??

~edit - GrrrRRrrr Commander DonTeaTus post bumped me ...

Its not the Dark matter in the bottle its "The Message in the bottle " que song title

[nec207]

That’s one of the unanswered questions that I still have but I think we should exclude UFOs out of it as we have no scientific based

evidence of alien spacecraft’s so far and so it’s useless to speculate about propulsion systems of such.

Also I think that a mix-up of gravity and (electro)magnetism should be avoided in the general question even if both forces are influencing

each other in some cases. And I´m still fascinated about the fact that a thumbnail sized magnet can lift up an iron coin because this shows that the little magnet has more power (to the coin) than the gravity force of the whole planet.

As gravitation is one of the 4 fundamental interactions (electromagnetic/gravitational/strong nuclear/weak nuclear) I don´t think that the

borders of physics can be cracked here to create an anti-force mechanism, means to eliminate gravitation. As we can create magnetism

by electricity flow I think it is more important to think about options of creating gravity force that can be used in the opposite direction of

the “natural” gravitation force of whatever, than to think about how existing gravity can be “deleted” or made without effect.

That one of the reason the scientific community disproves of UFO.There is no known propulsion system that can do what a UFO can do.

UFO does not suck aire in or out and can stay stationary in the air!! Not only that , but from standing point go from 0 G's force to very high G force.You will need some thing like inertia dampener like in the stargate movie because the g force too great. Or some how different gravity inside the craft and control the gravity in side the craft.

But these things are beyond science at this point and a taboo to talk about.

[nec207]

Welcome to the Show , The Show that Never Ends "nec207" You will Love this place As for anti-gravity Theres no telling what we will figure out in the Hundred years or so . The Universe has many secrets to teach us ! Keep an open mind,dont run too fast with your open mine as you take corners,spilliage is possible,ANd Keep looking up,and also in front of where your going ! Tips to live by ! Cheers justDONTEATUS

Well other thing we all learned in school , general relativity saying nothing can go faster than light.So for UFO to go from one start system to other or some thing like star trek to be possible.You need to create warp bubble and move through space and time or cause the space time contract move that way.Some scientist have talk about but very hard to understand.The problem many scientist disprove of warp drive ,FTL ,warm hole trevel is it requires exotic matter that does not exit in nature !! So scientist say because this exotic matter does not exit in nature than warp drive ,FTL ,warm hole trevel is not possible.Pluse there no scientific studies to support this it is only math and theory support it.

So star trek warp drive may be possibleif you had exotic matter.

The Alcubierre drive or Alcubierre metric (referring to metric tensor) is a speculative idea based on a solution of Einstein's field equations in general relativity as proposed by theoretical physicist Miguel Alcubierre, by which a spacecraft could achieve faster-than-light travel if a configurable energy-density field lower than that of vacuum (i.e. negative mass) could be created. Rather than exceeding the speed of light within its local frame of reference, a spacecraft would traverse distances by contracting space in front of it and expanding space behind it, resulting in effective faster-than-light travel.

Objects cannot accelerate to the speed of light within normal spacetime; instead, the Alcubierre drive shifts space around an object so that the object would arrive at its destination faster than light would in normal space.^[1] Although the metric proposed by Alcubierre is mathematically valid in that it is consistent with the Einstein field equations, it may not be physically meaningful or indicate that such a drive could be constructed. The proposed mechanism of the Alcubierre drive implies a negative energy density and therefore requires exotic matter, so if exotic matter with the correct properties does not exist then it could not be constructed. However, at the close of his original paper^[2] Alcubierre argued (following an argument developed by physicists analyzing traversable wormholes^[3][4]) that the Casimir vacuum between parallel plates could fulfill the negative-energy requirement for the Alcubierre drive. Another possible issue is that although the Alcubierre metric is consistent with general relativity, general relativity does not incorporate quantum mechanics, and some physicists have presented arguments to suggest that a theory of quantum gravity which merged the two theories would eliminate those solutions in general relativity which allow for backwards time travel (see the chronology protection conjecture), of which the Alcubierre drive is one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive

[behavioralist]

Why do people want to go into space? It's just an old habit, like those sci fi b/w Movies where aliens are using toggle switches and tubes. Space is a servile "Enterprise". If we could leave it in the hands of Machines that can do far more than we could we would certainly do so.

How does an insect leap Buildings in a single bound? By weighing very Little! And today's advanced materials research will lead to robots with any number of legs, claws, and tentacles that weigh next to nothing. That's antigravity put on the back burner.

We have 3D Movies, and we can wrap these Movies around our whole peripheral vision with "synthetic distance" which is from the nineties. We can go into space with our Machines without ever going into space. We can even adopt them as surrogate bodies and interact in space, on asteroids, etc.

[nec207]

Our current understanding of physics doesn't allow anti-gravity. In truth we do not understand the fundamentals of gravity just predicting it. Its still hypothetical with plotholes and gremlins and remains a mystery so how could we even say anti-gravity is impossible? We must first beable to understand and than manipulate it.

Fast forward the human race a thousand years to a million years from now and any technology you see would be just plain magic. Its likely we will even beable to manipulate the forces of nature but who can predict the future? No one.

The math and standard model does not support anti-gravity moments during or after the big bang from what I understand.Plus the stars and planets will not form.I think some people think that the particle accelerator is finding things hidden or only doing the big bang.But remember the math and model supports higgs boson and other particles before it was found.

Edited January 18, 2014 by nec207

[nec207]

Agreed. Being that we don't really know how gravity is generated to begin with, making any claim of how it would be un-generated is kind of pointless.

Gravity and anti-gravity is not fully understood.Under general relativity the bigger the mass the more gravity. So the bigger the plenet the more gravity.

Under quantum mechanics it more like force .And they hope to find the graviton the force carry gravity.

But just becuse you find graviton does not been you can conntrol gravity.

[nec207]

Why do people want to go into space? It's just an old habit, like those sci fi b/w Movies where aliens are using toggle switches and tubes. Space is a servile "Enterprise". If we could leave it in the hands of Machines that can do far more than we could we would certainly do so.

How does an insect leap Buildings in a single bound? By weighing very Little! And today's advanced materials research will lead to robots with any number of legs, claws, and tentacles that weigh next to nothing. That's antigravity put on the back burner.

We have 3D Movies, and we can wrap these Movies around our whole peripheral vision with "synthetic distance" which is from the nineties. We can go into space with our Machines without ever going into space. We can even adopt them as surrogate bodies and interact in space, on asteroids, etc.

There are many reason to go in space . At one point the earth will run out of resources.Even now they are running out of resources.Only now are they starting to look at space mining. Other reason is overcrowding. If people can move to mars or other star system than overcrowding is not a problem.

The problem with the space program now , is it is prohibitively expensive that is why space colonisation and space mining is scfi now.Also remember doing the space shuttle it cost close to billion dollars every time it gone up.From what I read SpaceX says it will do it for $150 million per launch .Virgin galactic is planning to start suborbital flights for about $200,000 per person. This is prohibitively expensive for space colonisation even for the rich with todays technology.

And I'm sorry ion propulsion system or plasma propulsion system does not have enough thrust to launch from earth .So can only be used in space. And laser propulsion system requires gigawatt power not to say laser propulsion system cannot be used in space. And space elevator is beyond today's technology.So chemical rockets is only thing they can use now.

[behavioralist]

There are many reason to go in space . At one point the earth will run out of resources.Even now they are running out of resources.Only now are they starting to look at space mining. Other reason is overcrowding. If people can move to mars or other star system than overcrowding is not a problem.

The problem with the space program now , is it is prohibitively expensive that is why space colonisation and space mining is scfi now.Also remember doing the space shuttle it cost close to billion dollars every time it gone up.From what I read SpaceX says it will do it for $150 million per launch .Virgin galactic is planning to start suborbital flights for about $200,000 per person. This is prohibitively expensive for space colonisation even for the rich with todays technology.

And I'm sorry ion propulsion system or plasma propulsion system does not have enough thrust to launch from earth .So can only be used in space. And laser propulsion system requires gigawatt power not to say laser propulsion system cannot be used in space. And space elevator is beyond today's technology.So chemical rockets is only thing they can use now.

Politics can adapt to the exploitation of a steady popuation, a zero-population growth. It can even adapt to a rapidly shrinking population.

The problem is "love". If I am an aristocrat, and I fall in love with a peasant, then she has to become an aristocrat as well. The more times I "fall in love" the worse the proportion of aristocrat to peasant becomes. Peasants, properly managed, can take care of a shrinking population quite easily; but not of a growing population of my lovers.

[aquatus1]

Class, status, politics, blood, all these artificial rules created by man...

The world isn't running out of resources. Hell, we've barely scratched the surface of the planet so far. Nor is it running out of space. I remember about a decade ago reading that the world's human population, given a square meter to stand on, could easily fit within Rhode Island. I doubt it has gotten to unmanageable proportions.

[nec207]

Class, status, politics, blood, all these artificial rules created by man...

The world isn't running out of resources. Hell, we've barely scratched the surface of the planet so far. Nor is it running out of space. I remember about a decade ago reading that the world's human population, given a square meter to stand on, could easily fit within Rhode Island. I doubt it has gotten to unmanageable proportions.

Well people with college degree seems differ on the last part. On the first part , how do you know what other races think like ? You seem to paint that humans are the only race out there that confirms to Class, status, politics, blood, all these artificial rules and wars.

[nec207]

Politics can adapt to the exploitation of a steady popuation, a zero-population growth. It can even adapt to a rapidly shrinking population.

The problem is "love". If I am an aristocrat, and I fall in love with a peasant, then she has to become an aristocrat as well. The more times I "fall in love" the worse the proportion of aristocrat to peasant becomes. Peasants, properly managed, can take care of a shrinking population quite easily; but not of a growing population of my lovers.

On first part yes. And I support China's one child policy.If only other countries had the courage to do that.With the poulation of 7 billion hardly enough food, water and power for all , never mind the dream to own one home.It is the privilege and non privilege.Never mind poulation well over 12 billion and more.

[aquatus1]

Well people with college degree seems differ on the last part.

Obviously. I am, after all, a longstanding member of such. Incidentally, we college degree types differ on a lot of things.

On the first part , how do you know what other races think like ?

Well, to answer the question, I am a global marketing instructor for several major corporations, so it is part of my career to know how people in other countries think, but that isn't really important.

I am more curious as to what prompted the question in the first place. What in the first part gave you the impression that I was stating anything about what other races think?

You seem to paint that humans are the only race out there that confirms to Class, status, politics, blood, all these artificial rules and wars.

The word is "species", not race. What other species do in terms of class, status, politics, and blood, is of little interest to me. I specifically talked about man in reference to the post directly before mine that specifically talked about class, status, politics, and blood.

You decide to confront me on two points, but frankly, it sounds like you are going out of your way to pick an argument from something that isn't there.

[Frank Merton]

Who has or has not a college degree around here is most likely those who say they do, don't: those who say they don't, don't: those who don't make claims, do. I have discovered the hard way that telling people on these boards that you have an education is counterproductive, and I have since figured out why.

It's easier to discern who has some sense and who hasn't.

About artificial gravity like on Star Trek, don't they use centrifugal force? Come to think of it I never saw the thing rotating so maybe it's all a conspiracy and they don't really go out there into space after all. Anyway, artificial gravity shouldn't be too hard; just rotate a big wheel.

Anti-gravity seems to be out of reach for now. If those alien spacecraft look like they are using it, more likely they are using magnetism in some way we don't understand. If they were using true anti-gravity it would have effects on us below or nearby that would be quite unpleasant.

[nec207]

Obviously. I am, after all, a longstanding member of such. Incidentally, we college degree types differ on a lot of things.

Well, to answer the question, I am a global marketing instructor for several major corporations, so it is part of my career to know how people in other countries think, but that isn't really important.

I am more curious as to what prompted the question in the first place. What in the first part gave you the impression that I was stating anything about what other races think?

The word is "species", not race. What other species do in terms of class, status, politics, and blood, is of little interest to me. I specifically talked about man in reference to the post directly before mine that specifically talked about class, status, politics, and blood.

You decide to confront me on two points, but frankly, it sounds like you are going out of your way to pick an argument from something that isn't there.

I have heard people make reference to other bings on other planets called race. Are you saying that is grammarly incorrect?

Edited January 18, 2014 by nec207

[nec207]

Well, to answer the question, I am a global marketing instructor for several major corporations, so it is part of my career to know how people in other countries think, but that isn't really important.

I am more curious as to what prompted the question in the first place. What in the first part gave you the impression that I was stating anything about what other races think?

I was making reference to what other life forms being aliens on other plenets think or not think in terms class ,war ,stutus , weath ,greed or wants so on , how you or anyone can know if all aliens think like or not.

Edited January 18, 2014 by nec207

[nec207]

Who has or has not a college degree around here is most likely those who say they do, don't: those who say they don't, don't: those who don't make claims, do. I have discovered the hard way that telling people on these boards that you have an education is counterproductive, and I have since figured out why.

It's easier to discern who has some sense and who hasn't.

About artificial gravity like on Star Trek, don't they use centrifugal force? Come to think of it I never saw the thing rotating so maybe it's all a conspiracy and they don't really go out there into space after all. Anyway, artificial gravity shouldn't be too hard; just rotate a big wheel.

Anti-gravity seems to be out of reach for now. If those alien spacecraft look like they are using it, more likely they are using magnetism in some way we don't understand. If they were using true anti-gravity it would have effects on us below or nearby that would be quite unpleasant.

I was not saying anyone on here has or not have college degree.I was making reference of census of school of thought of earth running low on SOME resources and in future MORE by scholars.That at some point there will have to be space mining.

But that least of problems. Has census of www3 will be over food,water and power not land or greed and other things in past. Even now , it not that good when look at the american consumption and wont all 7 billion people to have that.Being food ,water and power.

edit.

Quote

Humanity would need five Earths to produce the resources needed if everyone lived as profligately as Americans, according to a report issued Tuesday.

And if humankind continues to use natural resources and produce waste at the current rate, "we will require the resources of two planets to meet our demands by the early 2030s," a gluttonous level of ecological spending that may cause major ecosystem collapse, the report said.

Read more at: http://phys.org/news178269435.html#jCp

Earth 'will expire by 2050'

Our planet is running out of room and resources. Modern man has plundered so much, a damning report claims this week, that outer space will have to be colonised

Earth's population will be forced to colonise two planets within 50 years if natural resources continue to be exploited at the current rate, according to a report out this week.

Quote

http://www.theguardi.../research.waste

Edited January 18, 2014 by nec207

[Frank Merton]

Yea well then you aren't reading the other posts in this thread.

[toast]

That one of the reason the scientific community disproves of UFO.There is no known propulsion system that can do what a UFO can do. UFO does not suck aire in or out and can stay stationary in the air!! Not only that , but from standing point go from 0 G's force to very high G force

Again, we do not have any proof of existing alien spacecrafts on earth and so any discussions "what an UFO can do" or about possible propulsion systems are just thought experiments.

You will need some thing like inertia dampener like in the stargate movie because the g force too great. Or some how different gravity inside the craft and control the gravity in side the craft.

Maybe.

But these things are beyond science at this point and a taboo to talk about.

Don´t talk in miracles. Please provide informations, from the real world not just StarGate/Enterprise/StarTrek trallala, that had lead you to your assumptions.

Edited January 18, 2014 by toast

[taniwha]

Class, status, politics, blood, all these artificial rules created by man...

The world isn't running out of resources. Hell, we've barely scratched the surface of the planet so far. Nor is it running out of space. I remember about a decade ago reading that the world's human population, given a square meter to stand on, could easily fit within Rhode Island. I doubt it has gotten to unmanageable proportions.

A decade ago the world population had streaked past the 6 billion mark...now we are 7 billion and climbing. Does anyone know if world population is counted in the American billion or the British billion? There is 1,000 times the difference between the two so would be interesting to know.

In the same breath I would point out the given area of Rhode Island stands at 1.95 million square metres. Thats about 1 and a half metres per person already living there.