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Myles

The Curse of Oak Island

545 posts in this topic

The way these two bounce around drives me crazy.  I saw the episode where a supposed 1178 AD map (Templars) was brought to them.  It did look a lot like the island in outline and had several features noted in French and translations given.  One feature called "the hatch" was checked out.  They did indeed find a strange looking opening in the ground in the approximate area indicated.  There's another feature called a "valve" on the map.  You would think the obvious thing to do would be to verify some of the other features on the map.  If they were confirmed, wouldn't it make sense to look for the "valve"?  After all, what other purpose can a "valve" perform other than to turn on or off a flow of liquid.  Instead , they're off to do something else.  Bizarre ( or fake?).

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I've mentioned it before, the theory with the ground scanning - that showed an extensive tunnel system on the island - it could be that these are natural caves that had many surface openings on the island, A cave system that some people discovered way back, and saw the potential to use it as a hiding place for whatever treasure they wanted safe - and that after they placed their treasure down there, they used the soil from the place where the swamp now is, to fill up the natural cave-openings on the island. This would really simplify the whole ordeal of the digging and excavation that they would have to had done otherwise. This would increase the odds of it being anything there at all, since in this case they would just have done the work of setting up the traps, and then filling up the cave openings, and put up the markings and clues to leave behind

They said earlier that they had strong indications that the swamp on the island was man made, and that large quantities of soil must have been removed to create that swamp. That would solve the mystery why this swamp was created, and where the soil that was dug up went. And also, it would have made the treasure hiders effort a hell of a lot easier to use an existing natural cave system, than have to dig these deep extensive holes to bury a treasure. It would make sense regarding those timberlogs-sections they found in that money-pit hole. Every ten feet there was layers of logs in place. and it would make sense to put them there if one just filled up an existing hole that had spacious caverns at the bottom. Otherwise the soil would just keep filling up the cave, and also there would be natural settings of the soil over the years so a hole would be visible - and they didn't want that.

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I haven't kept up with this at all but can I get the crib notes on the latest news and discoveries in this mystery?

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41 minutes ago, NightScreams said:

I haven't kept up with this at all but can I get the crib notes on the latest news and discoveries in this mystery?

"Nothing definite found, but Great Things may yet be discovered in the next episode/season!" :D

Edited by PersonFromPorlock
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18 hours ago, EllJay said:

I've mentioned it before, the theory with the ground scanning - that showed an extensive tunnel system on the island - it could be that these are natural caves that had many surface openings on the island, A cave system that some people discovered way back, and saw the potential to use it as a hiding place for whatever treasure they wanted safe - and that after they placed their treasure down there, they used the soil from the place where the swamp now is, to fill up the natural cave-openings on the island. This would really simplify the whole ordeal of the digging and excavation that they would have to had done otherwise. This would increase the odds of it being anything there at all, since in this case they would just have done the work of setting up the traps, and then filling up the cave openings, and put up the markings and clues to leave behind

They said earlier that they had strong indications that the swamp on the island was man made, and that large quantities of soil must have been removed to create that swamp. That would solve the mystery why this swamp was created, and where the soil that was dug up went. And also, it would have made the treasure hiders effort a hell of a lot easier to use an existing natural cave system, than have to dig these deep extensive holes to bury a treasure. It would make sense regarding those timberlogs-sections they found in that money-pit hole. Every ten feet there was layers of logs in place. and it would make sense to put them there if one just filled up an existing hole that had spacious caverns at the bottom. Otherwise the soil would just keep filling up the cave, and also there would be natural settings of the soil over the years so a hole would be visible - and they didn't want that.

Everything you said makes sense to me.......except.    I can't get past the monumental task most of the theories would require.    I have trouble believing that anyone would sail to an uninhabited island so far away and spend months digging and booby trapping such a complicated system.  

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1 hour ago, Myles said:

Everything you said makes sense to me.......except.    I can't get past the monumental task most of the theories would require.    I have trouble believing that anyone would sail to an uninhabited island so far away and spend months digging and booby trapping such a complicated system.  

I think that depends on what they might wanna bury and hide. It might be all the riches accumulated by the Knights Templar in Europe and Middleeast, with their banking-system. When Knights Templar were betrayed by the Church in Rome and the French King Philip and hunted down and killed them, they never found those riches that they knew they had, and a large portion of their fleet was missing as well. And lets say that they had what they believed to be the Ark of Covenant That would surely be something that they would go to great length to keep away from the Church in Rome, and they would put a lot of effort to keep it safe and hidden. It might also be books, old writings regarding early Christianity (a new set of DeadSea-scrolls perhaps) that they know that Rome would like to lay its hands on. In the light of this great betrayal they would make sure that if they could not have them, then no one else will either - especially the church.

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13 minutes ago, EllJay said:

I think that depends on what they might wanna bury and hide. It might be all the riches accumulated by the Knights Templar in Europe and Middleeast, with their banking-system. When Knights Templar were betrayed by the Church in Rome and the French King Philip and hunted down and killed them, they never found those riches that they knew they had, and a large portion of their fleet was missing as well. And lets say that they had what they believed to be the Ark of Covenant That would surely be something that they would go to great length to keep away from the Church in Rome, and they would put a lot of effort to keep it safe and hidden. It might also be books, old writings regarding early Christianity (a new set of DeadSea-scrolls perhaps) that they know that Rome would like to lay its hands on. In the light of this great betrayal they would make sure that if they could not have them, then no one else will either - especially the church.

Those are certainly some of their theories.   Seems far fetched to me.   Especially since not many, if any travels had reached the area yet.  

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13 minutes ago, Myles said:

Those are certainly some of their theories.   Seems far fetched to me.   Especially since not many, if any travels had reached the area yet.  

The Viking Leif Eriksson had 300 hundred years before, and the Knights Templar had a close connections with Scotland and the north-east of Englands coastal cities, where many descendants of the Vikings lived. And probably had heard their oral history of Leif Eriksson's  discovery, and how to get there. Many Knights Templar took refuge in that area in Britain during the persecution of them in the rest of Europe was going on. And it's not a far stretch that they planned their final move there, and saw Vinland (The New World/) as a pretty good alternative - for both escaping, and hiding their treasures.

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Hi folks, sorry for the error in that post about the "hatch".  Map date was 1378 AD.  Still, it was worth following up on which the boys did but they didn't do a very good job.  They just pounded a piece of re-bar down until they hit rock in a few spots.  Hatches on ships have been known to be "sliders" and it would have been nice to see them go down a foot and actually show the bedrock.  Also, the "valve" reference on the map is curious.  The valve is too far away to protect the money pit but it's in a good spot to protect that hatch and you wouldn't put in a valve to flood that shallow pit.  A few passes with the ground penetrating radar on the side of the hatch facing the valve would certainly be worthwhile and cost hardly anything.  Instead they're going to  brute force their way down the money pit hole with some monster equipment, likely busting up anything that's down there.

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5 minutes ago, lakeview rud said:

Hi folks, sorry for the error in that post about the "hatch".  Map date was 1378 AD.  Still, it was worth following up on which the boys did but they didn't do a very good job.  They just pounded a piece of re-bar down until they hit rock in a few spots.  Hatches on ships have been known to be "sliders" and it would have been nice to see them go down a foot and actually show the bedrock.  Also, the "valve" reference on the map is curious.  The valve is too far away to protect the money pit but it's in a good spot to protect that hatch and you wouldn't put in a valve to flood that shallow pit.  A few passes with the ground penetrating radar on the side of the hatch facing the valve would certainly be worthwhile and cost hardly anything.  Instead they're going to  brute force their way down the money pit hole with some monster equipment, likely busting up anything that's down there.

I think they are picking their courses of action based on what makes the TV show better.   They supposedly bring up would from 145 feet down.   And the stop.   They should have gone down1 more foot in order to break through or create a hole so a diver can actually see something instead of a wood platform.  

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I watched an entire episode last night for the first time, having only seen parts of the previous ones.

I don't know if it's Rick or Marty, but the brother with that gray goatee makes me sick for some reason. You know when you can't stand somebody from the get-go just based on looks?

Question: Where is the money coming from to keep all that equipment and digging crew paid?

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I’m not a fan of reality TV but this one has historical implications that are intriguing.  I am getting wrapped up in it although I get tired of the camera cutting to Rick’s face to see his reaction every time something happens.  I know they have 10 episodes (or whatever) to fill but I would have preferred a two hour documentary.  I think this is a Templar/Portuguese Pirate site but is there really anything still here?  Something was constructed on the island to hide something else but I don’t think it was lost or forgotten.  Whatever organization morphed from the Templars retrieved whatever treasure was there perhaps hundreds of years ago.  That was probably the tackle that the boys initially found back in 1795.

 

With that said, I fully expect to see Scott Wolter to pop out of the Money Pit with the Ark of the Covenant under one arm and Hitler under the other. :rolleyes:

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Personally, I don't believe if something is buried on the island that it is buried pirate treasure.  Pirates really didn't bury their treasure...  Kidd did, once, but most likely pirates spent everything at the next port.  I think, my opinion, that if there is something there, it is either Templar or Viking.  They both displayed that MO.  However, despite the small items they have found so far (e.g., piece of eight, silver object last night) I don't believe they will find anything in the end.

Marty Lagina has several business interests in Michigan.  There is Master Key Energy, Rock Oil Company, Heritage Sustainable Energy, and Mari Vineyards.  He also started and sold Terra Energy.  The money comes personally from him and his partners.

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2 hours ago, -ZZ- said:

I watched an entire episode last night for the first time, having only seen parts of the previous ones.

I don't know if it's Rick or Marty, but the brother with that gray goatee makes me sick for some reason. You know when you can't stand somebody from the get-go just based on looks?

Question: Where is the money coming from to keep all that equipment and digging crew paid?

Rick is the guy with the goatee.   You are right, he is annoying.    His brother Marty is putting up all the money (besides what the History Channel is).   Rick seems to be the out of work loser brother.   

I don't mind the show except the narrators voice needs to be ripped out.   "Could it be" this and "Could it be" that.   arggggggg.

I'm hopeful, but still extremely skeptical.   I am happy to see that there are new episodes at least the next 2 weeks.

It does drive me nuts how they half-ass so much of what they do.   Like with the "hatch" yesterday.   They even said that they didn't rule it out.   They had a permit to excavate and all they brought was a piece of rebar and a sledge hammer.   Freaking take a couple hours and rule it out.

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16 minutes ago, Aftermath said:

Personally, I don't believe if something is buried on the island that it is buried pirate treasure.  Pirates really didn't bury their treasure...  Kidd did, once, but most likely pirates spent everything at the next port.  I think, my opinion, that if there is something there, it is either Templar or Viking.  They both displayed that MO.  However, despite the small items they have found so far (e.g., piece of eight, silver object last night) I don't believe they will find anything in the end.

This isn’t *typical* buried pirate treasure.  It is not the kind of treasure you spend at the next port.  I believe that when King Philip had the Templars arrested in 1307 and the purge began, what was left of the Templars sailed away in their ships (including their great treasure) and over the centuries had eventually merged/morphed with the Portuguese.  The Templar and Portuguese Crosses where pretty much identical.  The Templars had treasure that they hid in one place and then another.  I think they constantly moved it around.  This is a group very capable of engineering skills to hide (keep safe) this treasure.  They were not rouges looking for a drunken brawl, although I would imagine they did plenty of that.  In today’s world, it is perhaps harder to transport and hide this treasure, so they would have to do it under the veil of world events.  I.e. it was probably moved during WWII and then again during the Iraq war.  It might be in ISIS territory currently??  But the Templars today have it down as routine as they keep their modern identity and the location of their treasure secret.

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1 hour ago, Myles said:

It does drive me nuts how they half-ass so much of what they do.   Like with the "hatch" yesterday.   They even said that they didn't rule it out.   They had a permit to excavate and all they brought was a piece of rebar and a sledge hammer.   Freaking take a couple hours and rule it out.

It didn't surprise me that they didn't do anything with the "hatch" last night, because...

 

1 hour ago, Myles said:

Rick seems to be the out of work loser brother. 

The lazy SOB...  he also didn't want to move forward at the Money Pitt...  WTF - you hit wood lets dig deeper and see what's down there!!  The crew was already there and good to go.

 

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44 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

This isn’t *typical* buried pirate treasure.  It is not the kind of treasure you spend at the next port.  I believe that when King Philip had the Templars arrested in 1307 and the purge began, what was left of the Templars sailed away in their ships (including their great treasure) and over the centuries had eventually merged/morphed with the Portuguese.  The Templar and Portuguese Crosses where pretty much identical.  The Templars had treasure that they hid in one place and then another.  I think they constantly moved it around.  This is a group very capable of engineering skills to hide (keep safe) this treasure.  They were not rouges looking for a drunken brawl, although I would imagine they did plenty of that.  In today’s world, it is perhaps harder to transport and hide this treasure, so they would have to do it under the veil of world events.  I.e. it was probably moved during WWII and then again during the Iraq war.  It might be in ISIS territory currently??  But the Templars today have it down as routine as they keep their modern identity and the location of their treasure secret.

Well, that's why I wrote...

1 hour ago, Aftermath said:

I think, my opinion, that if there is something there, it is either Templar or Viking.

 

If the Templar's morphed into Portuguese pirates, then they would have the same MO as the Templars, i.e., bury their treasure.  Otherwise, buried treasure isn't the typical MO for run-of-the-mill pirates.

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I question why they would bury a treasure 150 feet underground.   

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6 minutes ago, Myles said:

I question why they would bury a treasure 150 feet underground.   

 I agree.   Although, why is there wood 150 feet underground?

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3 hours ago, Aftermath said:

 I agree.   Although, why is there wood 150 feet underground?

That's a good question.   I wonder if there could be other explanations.   Old sinkholes.   Underground rivers.   I don't know.   The region is lots of limestone and anhydrite which is prone to caves.  

I'm not trying to crap on the parade, just want to know if wood that deep means definite human interaction.   I don't think it is confirmed.  

 

Found this:

Interestingly, a sinkhole actually appeared on Oak Island in 1878. Sophia Sellers was ploughing the earth when it suddenly sank beneath her oxen. The area was thus named the ‘cave-in Pit,’ and located just over a hundred yards east of the Money Pit, directly above the flood tunnel.

In light of such evidence, it could be viable that the purported artificial structures on the island were merely natural sinkholes and cavities. In 1875 when a sewage-disposal system was being established on the mainland.

About 3,000 feet north of Oak Island heavy excavating machinery broke through a rock layer and discovered a 52-foot-deep cavern below. Could these caverns account for the flood traps that were supposedly placed to guard the fabled treasure?

If the Money Pit really was just a sinkhole caused by the possible slumping of material in a fault, it could permissible that this filling would be softer than the surrounding ground, and give the impression that it had been dug up before. This could account for what Daniel Mc Ginnis recognised as a site for buried treasure in 1795. It could also be possible that fallen trees could have sunk into the pit with its collapse, giving the appearance of platforms of logs.

https://oakislandtreasure.wordpress.com/theories/is-the-money-pit-natural/

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During the Crusades, the Templars had to be good siege engineers to defeat Muslim fortifications.  That’s a skill that includes tunneling.  They later excavated the Temple Mount.  Most Sappers were being employed by European kings, except for those that stayed loyal to the disgraced Templar Order.  It would be easy to relocate via ship to some distant land.  Any such group would be able to find a place to create a complex of tunnels in order to hide something.  Perhaps the Flat Earth theory is something the Templars came up with to keep explorers from wandering too far from home??

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22 hours ago, Myles said:

 

I don't mind the show except the narrators voice needs to be ripped out.   "Could it be" this and "Could it be" that.   arggggggg.

 

Yeah, that sh|t got old pretty fast. Oh man, is he annoying or what?

Rick picks up a log, and says; "Hey here's a log!!"  A second later the narrators voice comes in, with ridiculous excitement; "A LOG...IN THE MONEY PIT?!?! Could this be a remnant from the tunnel diggers? Or perhaps a piece of a pirate ship?"

Marty finds a stone with a marking, and says; "Hey, here is a stone with a marking!"  -  "A STONE!!!......WITH A MARKING!?!?! ON THE GROUND?!?!  Could this be the stone that the Templar's are said to have left as a clue for the Money Pit!?!?!"

The sky is clearing up, and the sun is coming out, and Rick says; "Hey, here comes the sun"  "THE SUN????......IN THE SKY!?!! Could this be the same sun under which the Knights Templar dug the Money Pit?? 

GAAAAH  cJFSa1k.gif

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17 hours ago, Myles said:

It could also be possible that fallen trees could have sunk into the pit with its collapse, giving the appearance of platforms of logs.

https://oakislandtreasure.wordpress.com/theories/is-the-money-pit-natural/

That is the "money shot"!     This is completely plausible and perhaps what is actually down there.

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6 minutes ago, EllJay said:

Yeah, that sh|t got old pretty fast. Oh man, is he annoying or what?

Rick picks up a log, and says; "Hey here's a log!!"  A second later the narrators voice comes in, with ridiculous excitement; "A LOG...IN THE MONEY PIT?!?! Could this be a remnant from the tunnel diggers? Or perhaps a piece of a pirate ship?"

Marty finds a stone with a marking, and says; "Hey, here is a stone with a marking!"  -  "A STONE!!!......WITH A MARKING!?!?! ON THE GROUND?!?!  Could this be the stone that the Templar's are said to have left as a clue for the Money Pit!?!?!"

The sky is clearing up, and the sun is coming out, and Rick says; "Hey, here comes the sun"  "THE SUN????......IN THE SKY!?!! Could this be the same sun under which the Knights Templar dug the Money Pit?? 

GAAAAH  cJFSa1k.gif

Darn you!    When I read parts of your post, I had the narrators voice going through my head.

"A VOICE?!?!.....IN MY HEAD?      Could this be the voice from the show?"

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