The Curse of Oak Island

[Myles]

9 minutes ago, Aftermath said:

That is the "money shot"!     This is completely plausible and perhaps what is actually down there.

That would be my bet as well.   

[Myles]

1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

During the Crusades, the Templars had to be good siege engineers to defeat Muslim fortifications.  That’s a skill that includes tunneling.  They later excavated the Temple Mount.  Most Sappers were being employed by European kings, except for those that stayed loyal to the disgraced Templar Order.  It would be easy to relocate via ship to some distant land.  Any such group would be able to find a place to create a complex of tunnels in order to hide something.  Perhaps the Flat Earth theory is something the Templars came up with to keep explorers from wandering too far from home??

It really was not an easy task to sail to North America.  

[RavenHawk]

6 minutes ago, Myles said:

It really was not an easy task to sail to North America.  

For most mariners at the time, I would agree.  But I think that the Templars made it routine.

[RavenHawk]

33 minutes ago, EllJay said:

Yeah, that sh|t got old pretty fast. Oh man, is he annoying or what?

Rick picks up a log, and says; "Hey here's a log!!"  A second later the narrators voice comes in, with ridiculous excitement; "A LOG...IN THE MONEY PIT?!?! Could this be a remnant from the tunnel diggers? Or perhaps a piece of a pirate ship?"

This last episode, I wanted to reach through the TV and strangle that announcer when they found a bullet (shell casing) in the spoils and then a bit later they found a piece of metal and asked what is it?  Silver??  Yeah, it was a silver bullet and they shot a werewolf trying to steal the treasure.

[Myles]

15 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

For most mariners at the time, I would agree.  But I think that the Templars made it routine.

I hope you are right.    I just don't know of any proof that the Templars were sailing to North America.  

[RavenHawk]

15 minutes ago, Myles said:

I hope you are right.    I just don't know of any proof that the Templars were sailing to North America.  

Have you seen Scott Wolter’s series, “America Unearthed”?  I think he’s proven that the Templars were here as well as many others (including Chinese and Minoans).  When I was last in Minneapolis, I drove to Alexandria (because of the program) to see the Kensington Runestone (I also popped over to the state capitol to see the deck gun of the USS Ward.  Two years prior, I had driven through Fredericksburg, TX – you get extra points for knowing the relationship. )

[Myles]

2 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Have you seen Scott Wolter’s series, “America Unearthed”?  I think he’s proven that the Templars were here as well as many others (including Chinese and Minoans).  When I was last in Minneapolis, I drove to Alexandria (because of the program) to see the Kensington Runestone (I also popped over to the state capitol to see the deck gun of the USS Ward.  Two years prior, I had driven through Fredericksburg, TX – you get extra points for knowing the relationship. )

I haven't seen the series, I'll look into it.    From a quick google search, most believe the Kensington Runestone  to be a hoax.  

[HollyDolly]

I get the connection to the  USS Ward and Fredricksburg ,Texas. There is the Chester A.Nimitz Museum of the Pacific. It's at the old Steamboat hotel and grounds.The hotel got its name because the front of it looks like the bow of a  stemboat.The admiral's family built and owned the place.Before that,they had a two story  hotel/stagestop in Leon Springs,Tx north of San Antonio. It was ages ago a  restaurant,but i'm not sure  what it is now. There is a historical marker in front of the old place.Haven't been out to Leon Springs in must be almost 20years.

[RavenHawk]

9 minutes ago, HollyDolly said:

I get the connection to the  USS Ward and Fredricksburg ,Texas. There is the Chester A.Nimitz Museum of the Pacific. It's at the old Steamboat hotel and grounds.The hotel got its name because the front of it looks like the bow of a  stemboat.The admiral's family built and owned the place.Before that,they had a two story  hotel/stagestop in Leon Springs,Tx north of San Antonio. It was ages ago a  restaurant,but i'm not sure  what it is now. There is a historical marker in front of the old place.Haven't been out to Leon Springs in must be almost 20years.

You’re very close…  Can you further expand on that connection?  Maybe this should be its own thread?

[RavenHawk]

17 minutes ago, Myles said:

I haven't seen the series, I'll look into it.    From a quick google search, most believe the Kensington Runestone  to be a hoax.  

Some do believe that it is a hoax but that viewpoint is dwindling as new information becomes available.  Not too long ago, people didn’t think the Chinese could have explored along the West Coast.  Today, that is more accepted.  When you actually see the runestone, you can tell it is old.  If it is a hoax, it would have been a hoax from hundreds of years before it was found, before the idea was even thought of.  It is sort of a predecessor of Oak Island.  Scott put out a 2-hour Prequel (on the runestone) and that led to his 39 episode series, then he also has a 6 episode series on none else but the “Pirate Treasure of the Knights Templar”.  But the main gist of the runestone is that it is an ancient land claim.  You’d have to go through the episodes and come up with your own opinion but I strongly recommend the series.

[PersonFromPorlock]

Just a note on vocabulary, as it relates to the 'valve' on the map that's been referred to here (which I have no way of seeing). It's a little old-fashioned, but 'valve' can refer to the part of a portal that opens and closes, what most of us now call 'the door'.

"(archaic) a leaf of a double door or of a folding door."

Edited December 15, 2016 by PersonFromPorlock

[Swede]

6 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Have you seen Scott Wolter’s series, “America Unearthed”?  I think he’s proven that the Templars were here as well as many others (including Chinese and Minoans).  When I was last in Minneapolis, I drove to Alexandria (because of the program) to see the Kensington Runestone (I also popped over to the state capitol to see the deck gun of the USS Ward.  Two years prior, I had driven through Fredericksburg, TX – you get extra points for knowing the relationship. )

A note or two:

1) Mr. Wolter has no visible qualifications in archaeology, history, or related topics. His undergraduate degree was in geology and that would appear to be the extent of his educational background. While a reasonably successful businessman, his capacity to evaluate the relevant technical data would not appear worthy of serious consideration. To be a bit more blunt: In professional circles he is considered to be a non-factor/joke.

2) Despite literally decades of historical, geomorphological, archaeological, and linguistic research there is no credible support for the validity of the authenticity of the Kensington Runestone. Not to mention the cultural and travel mechanism aspects. Yes, from a professional perspective, it is considered to be a hoax. One must bear in mind the time period during which it was created and the documented propensity for such practices during the relevant period.

.  

[Myles]

After further reading, I'm 95% sure the runestone is a hoax.  

[skliss]

I  enjoyed some of Wolters shows and I thought he came up with some new and interesting theories,  but he lost me when he clung to some definitely proven hoaxes. For example the whole Priory of Scion nonsense from the Dan Brown  books. The guys who actually faked those documents, found in a French library, publicly acknowledged  it. Information that has been out there for years. That's just one example.

As for Oak Island.... I've watched the shows and have found the mystery intriguing since I was a child. While I'd like them to power thru and just find it already, I also understand the need to preserve the site by excavating with care. What good is it to find the Ark of the Covenant if you crush it with excavating equipment? I also think they are hampered by the permits and rules imposed on them by the Canadian government. They had to stop altogether a while ago when a bill was introduced saying that the government would own 100% of what was found. Well, why should they when these guys are spending all their own money, time and effort? It was shot down and they eventually worked something out.

[Badfish312]

After reading this thread I have to ask this question. 

In the country your from, were you taught in school that Colombus "discovered" the Americas? 

In Scandinavia, we have been taught for generations, that vikings settled in North America many centuries before Colombus "discovery" 

 

Edited December 19, 2016 by Badfish312

[Swede]

55 minutes ago, Badfish312 said:

After reading this thread I have to ask this question. 

In the country your from, were you taught in school that Colombus "discovered" the Americas? 

In Scandinavia, we have been taught for generations, that vikings settled in North America many centuries before Colombus "discovery" 

 

The "understanding" that Columbus "discovered" the Americas has long ago been discounted. In fact, he never set foot upon the North American landform. The Americas were "discovered" by the ancestors of the current Native American/Amerindian/First Nations peoples. These early inhabitants are currently considered to have entered the Americas proper circa 16,000 before present (BP).

You would appear to be referring to such sites as L'Anse aux Meadows and the more recent (research wise) indications associated with Baffin Island, etc. These sites can generally be dated to circa 1000 AD. These sites would appear to have been quite short lived.

Edit: Addition.

Edited December 20, 2016 by Swede

[Bavarian Raven]

On 2016-12-16 at 4:39 AM, Myles said:

After further reading, I'm 95% sure the runestone is a hoax.  

Of course it has to be a hoax - it would rewrite history if it wasn't. Yet, no one has been able to explain just how it was done, the last I have read about it... :S

[Gingitsune]

9 hours ago, Badfish312 said:

After reading this thread I have to ask this question. 

In the country your from, were you taught in school that Colombus "discovered" the Americas? 

In Scandinavia, we have been taught for generations, that vikings settled in North America many centuries before Colombus "discovery" 

 

In Canada, we are though First Nations made it first (hence the name); then Vikings; then Cabot, Cartier, Basque, Briton and Norman fishermen, then New French colonies, then English colonies.

Columbus is mentioned in the General Western History cursus, but not in the History of Canada.

As for Columbus's discovery, the American continent made it to the geography knowledge of Europe thanks to him. Of the Norse's exploration, Europe geography gained Iceland and Greenland, but Vinland wasn't so mainstream...

Edited December 20, 2016 by Gingitsune

[Badfish312]

On 20/12/2016 at 0:29 AM, Swede said:

The "understanding" that Columbus "discovered" the Americas has long ago been discounted. In fact, he never set foot upon the North American landform. The Americas were "discovered" by the ancestors of the current Native American/Amerindian/First Nations peoples. These early inhabitants are currently considered to have entered the Americas proper circa 16,000 before present (BP).

You would appear to be referring to such sites as L'Anse aux Meadows and the more recent (research wise) indications associated with Baffin Island, etc. These sites can generally be dated to circa 1000 AD. These sites would appear to have been quite short lived.

Edit: Addition.

Thank you for your reply. 

So what where you taught in school? 

I have to disagree with your last statement, depending on what you describe as short lived.

The Vikings had several settlement in North America according to historicial writings. Which scandinavians have know for several centuries. It is well established by historical writings and archeological findings, that the vikings had several settlements in North America and were trading with other european vikings for at least a centuary. 

Regarding the topic of the knights templar and oak Island, some historiens believe that this knowlegde of "the land at the end of the world"' was shared or given to the British Noblemen when Great Britian was fully controlled and a territory of the vikings. However we have no evidence of this "trade secret" being shared with other cultures at that point in history. 

[Badfish312]

On 20/12/2016 at 8:48 AM, Gingitsune said:

In Canada, we are though First Nations made it first (hence the name); then Vikings; then Cabot, Cartier, Basque, Briton and Norman fishermen, then New French colonies, then English colonies.

Columbus is mentioned in the General Western History cursus, but not in the History of Canada.

As for Columbus's discovery, the American continent made it to the geography knowledge of Europe thanks to him. Of the Norse's exploration, Europe geography gained Iceland and Greenland, but Vinland wasn't so mainstream...

Thank you for a very informative post. 

What where you taught in school regarding when the "native" settled Canada? I know of the archeological findings which gives a well educated guess, however i am interested in what the educational system in Canada have taught their citiziens. 

[Gingitsune]

14 minutes ago, Badfish312 said:

Thank you for a very informative post. 

What where you taught in school regarding when the "native" settled Canada? I know of the archeological findings which gives a well educated guess, however i am interested in what the educational system in Canada have taught their citiziens. 

We are told they moved in somewhere after the ice sheets melted, because about 99% of Canada was just ice 20,000 years ago. 



Then we have a bit of mapping the main language and culture families among First Nations. We are also told Inuits came later, aboriginal are named "First Nations and Inuits" for this reason.

Although I have been in grade school back in the second millennium, maybe I should ask my grade 6 niece what she was told this Christmas, to see if it is still what they teach in class...
 

On 12/19/2016 at 7:29 PM, Swede said:

You would appear to be referring to such sites as L'Anse aux Meadows and the more recent (research wise) indications associated with Baffin Island, etc. These sites can generally be dated to circa 1000 AD. These sites would appear to have been quite short lived.

Edit: Addition.

The site on Baffin Island wasn't so short lived, it would have been in use for a few centuries before being abandoned.

[Badfish312]

23 minutes ago, Gingitsune said:

Although I have been in grade school back in the second millennium, maybe I should ask my grade 6 niece what she was told this Christmas, to see if it is still what they teach in class...

I really hope you would like to share what your niece has been taught at this stage in her education.

[Myles]

Well, last nights episode kind of burst the bubble once again.   It seems the wood they found was from a previous attempt to find treasure.  

I suspected as much.  

[Bavarian Raven]

Minor problem with that glacier map. The queen charlotte islands were likely ice free as was the Brooke peninsula on Vancouver island.

[Aftermath]

53 minutes ago, Myles said:

Well, last nights episode kind of burst the bubble once again.   It seems the wood they found was from a previous attempt to find treasure.  

I suspected as much.  

Absolutely.

The excavation of the money pit by Robert Dunfield was devastating to the area.  He dug to a depth of 134 feet and the hole was 100 feet wide; then he covered everything up but not so neatly.  I'm surprised they didn't think of that before.  The looks on their faces when they realized the timber had circular saw marks was awful.  You literally could see the life being sucked right out of them - the realization of millions of dollars lost.  You could tell something was wrong when the timber they pulled up was perfectly square.

They don't call it the money pit because something is buried there...  ya know.