Will Russia come to the "aid" of Ukraine?

[stevewinn]

I hear the two of you telling me things that were said on the streets of Kiev and wonder how you come to have heard it. That is all, oh, in one case I guess a friend heard it.

well as i stated in my posts, its all over social media coming out of Kiev. take from that what you will.

[Kaa-Tzik]

I hear the two of you telling me things that were said on the streets of Kiev and wonder how you come to have heard it. That is all, oh, in one case I guess a friend heard it.

The transcript of the exchange between the rioter and the policeman was recorded, and no, unfortunately there is no link, in anycase, you would need to understand Ukranian. The point being made is that some of us know Ukraine and have friends, and relatives there. We can make comments from a position of much greater knowledge than any forum member who have to rely on what they are told by their media and politicians. The same would be true of events in America, I could only go on what the media said, not personal knowledge and so my opinions would carry less weight as I would not have the greater knowledge of an American.

[Frank Merton]

Look I know disinformation when I see it.

[Sir Smoke aLot]

Its ok as long as its away from your house.

[Kaa-Tzik]

Look I know disinformation when I see it.

Excellent, you have finally realised that what is coming from EU and US, and their media, is not only disinformation, but also total lies.

[Kaa-Tzik]

And now high EU comissar Barroso has issued a threat to the democratically elected government of Ukraine that if the violence gets worse, then the EU will step in. So, the violence is from people rioting, people that want Ukraine in EU, or more likely use it as an excuse, people essentially on the side of Barroso. Why does not this unelected non entity give a warning to the rioters?, and besides, of what concern are internal Ukranian affairs to do with this unelected EU non entity? Should Ukraine declare that if the Euro disaster is not solved soon, then Ukraine will take action against EU?. And what will "stepping in" involve if not force. Is EU threatening war against Ukraine, because it seems like it. I wonder what Barroso would say about seperatist fascists rioting in Lisbon, or about any country threatening to "step in" if the rioting would not stop?

Edited January 23, 2014 by Kaa-Tzik

[Sir Smoke aLot]

Excellent, you have finally realised that what is coming from EU and US, and their media, is not only disinformation, but also total lies.

I am surprised that we havent seen children with tears in their eyes asking for changes while their parents are risking their lives for better tommorow. And some of the other prooven to be effective methods for supporting riots and conflicts. Or i have missed some of the latest news.

[Kaa-Tzik]

I am surprised that we havent seen children with tears in their eyes asking for changes while their parents are risking their lives for better tommorow. And some of the other prooven to be effective methods for supporting riots and conflicts. Or i have missed some of the latest news.

Probably still rehearsing in the studio

[Helen of Annoy]

Excellent, you have finally realised that what is coming from EU and US, and their media, is not only disinformation, but also total lies.

It’s very naive to believe that one side tells only the truth and the other only the lies.

[Kaa-Tzik]

It’s very naive to believe that one side tells only the truth and the other only the lies.

Of course, and thank you for saying that, by implication of what you say, that you think that not every word said by elected governments and people of Ukraine and Russia is a lie. But there are no lies about the history and about the origins and reasons of the rioters as this has now become very clear to all, even, finally, some sections of western media.

[Sir Smoke aLot]

And now high EU comissar Barroso has issued a threat to the democratically elected government of Ukraine that if the violence gets worse, then the EU will step in. So, the violence is from people rioting, people that want Ukraine in EU, or more likely use it as an excuse, people essentially on the side of Barroso. Why does not this unelected non entity give a warning to the rioters?, and besides, of what concern are internal Ukranian affairs to do with this unelected EU non entity? Should Ukraine declare that if the Euro disaster is not solved soon, then Ukraine will take action against EU?. And what will "stepping in" involve if not force. Is EU threatening war against Ukraine, because it seems like it. I wonder what Barroso would say about seperatist fascists rioting in Lisbon, or about any country threatening to "step in" if the rioting would not stop?

Thing is - they ( the EU or anyone else who is directly responsible for riots in Ukraine ) feel that, because all of the corruption in Ukraine, that corrupted president is vulnerable and they can have legal base for making similar attempts. Similar things happen only in countries where u can turn people, or at least group of people, against gouvernment. And its all defended by laws of democracy ( for which i am surprised that it isnt called best solution, utopia, as it is just that for some people ). That 'democracy and human rights' package gives u the right to arm rebels and start wars. And its for the people. For what people? For those who are in their homes and dont wonna take a part in riots that they dont need at all?

I just remember the times of Yugoslavia. We had everything. Free healthcare, homes, low prices, payed holidays... And most important - strong industries and a lot of jobs. Ask lybians what they got now and tell me that changes were for the people?

Sry for some off topic stuff, i kinda feel that things i write about are cause, at least partly, of all this riots worldwide.

Probably still rehearsing in the studio

rofl

Edited January 23, 2014 by Sir Smoke aLot

[Helen of Annoy]

Of course, and thank you for saying that, by implication of what you say, that you think that not every word said by elected governments and people of Ukraine and Russia is a lie. But there are no lies about the history and about the origins and reasons of the rioters as this has now become very clear to all, even, finally, some sections of western media.

To your surprise, I will confirm that I do think that not every word said by Russia and pro-Russian side is a lie.

I’m not blind, I saw photos of policemen burning after someone served a Molotov to them.

I do not approve of that – not that anyone asks me what I approve of, of course.

I ask you to return a favour and take a look at numbers of dead and the injured, reported by the improvised oppositional medical centre.

I do not ask you to post about it, I just ask you take a private look at them and then ask yourself if that’s what armed brothers should do to the unarmed part of the family.

I just remember the times of Yugoslavia. We had everything. Free healthcare, homes, low prices, payed holidays... And most important - strong industries and a lot of jobs. Ask lybians what they got now and tell me that changes were for the people?

I remember the times of former Yugoslavia too.

Only I don't remember having free healthcare (you had to bribe comrade doctor), home (though I had one, my family had to lose most of our land so that comrades can resettle few more hundreds of more politically conscious comrades into my land), low prices (ever heard of inflation, kid? of shortages of everything?), payed holidays (yes, holidays are paid still, unless you think of "folk resorts" comrades built on expropriated land and in expropriated houses and brought live Gypsy bands from Serbia to play there because summer at Croatian shore was too western for their taste so they had to bring something from home with them.)

The war that almost killed me was started and perpetuated by the clique of comrades who didn't want to lose their supremacy.

But they lost it in the end.

No artillery, no snipers and no lobbies could save their corpse of a state from its natural death.

[Sir Smoke aLot]

To your surprise, I will confirm that I do think that not every word said by Russia and pro-Russian side is a lie.

I’m not blind, I saw photos of policemen burning after someone served a Molotov to them.

I do not approve of that – not that anyone asks me what I approve of, of course.

I ask you to return a favour and take a look at numbers of dead and the injured, reported by the improvised oppositional medical centre.

I do not ask you to post about it, I just ask you take a private look at them and then ask yourself if that’s what armed brothers should do to the unarmed part of the family.

I remember the times of former Yugoslavia too.

Only I don't remember having free healthcare (you had to bribe comrade doctor), home (though I had one, my family had to lose most of our land so that comrades can resettle few more hundreds of more politically conscious comrades into my land), low prices (ever heard of inflation, kid? of shortages of everything?), payed holidays (yes, holidays are paid still, unless you think of "folk resorts" comrades built on expropriated land and in expropriated houses and brought live Gypsy bands from Serbia to play there because summer at Croatian shore was too western for their taste so they had to bring something from home with them.)

The war that almost killed me was started and perpetuated by the clique of comrades who didn't want to lose their supremacy.

But they lost it in the end.

No artillery, no snipers and no lobbies could save their corpse of a state from its natural death.

I aggree that there were problems. There are always problemsw with any gouvernment type.

The same people who did crimes when Yugoslavia was a country, crimes that u talk about, were responsible for war and taken some part in it. Now the same people hide behind new gouvernment type. War criminals walk as heroes in some parts of ex-yu... I dont see advance its more like going back in time. Also, keep in mind that foreign influence is responsible for Yugoslavia war in large part. Something we see even today...

[edit]

cuj dijete )) eh sad bi ti nesto rekao - salim se, nisam se ja toliko juge nagledao tacno ali dosta toga znam

Edited January 23, 2014 by Sir Smoke aLot

[Helen of Annoy]

I aggree that there were problems. There are always problemsw with any gouvernment type.

The same people who did crimes when Yugoslavia was a country, crimes that u talk about, were responsible for war and taken some part in it. Now the same people hide behind new gouvernment type. War criminals walk as heroes in some parts of ex-yu... I dont see advance its more like going back in time. Also, keep in mind that foreign influence is responsible for Yugoslavia war in large part. Something we see even today...

[edit]

cuj dijete )) eh sad bi ti nesto rekao - salim se, nisam se ja toliko juge nagledao tacno ali dosta toga znam

Being lefty in my heart and 44 years old, I can testify that former Yugoslavian regime was only nominally socialist. It was really some form of feudalism with well defined nationalist pecking order. And film industry to explain everything to people, from the Only One True History That Starts and Ends With WWII to the little details like which nation may tell jokes and which nations must laugh at them or else!!

"Narodna milicija" needed no warrants and "narodna vlast" needed no elections.

It was actually worse than current western moronization of population or their own mockery of democracy. Because it was deadlier for citizens than this charade we're getting into as from few years ago.

When I choose between east and west, I do not choose The Right Side, there’s no such thing. I choose lesser evil. West, with all its obvious faults, is lesser evil at this point.

Ne svadjaj se onda s babama koje znaju sve

[Sir Smoke aLot]

Being lefty in my heart and 44 years old, I can testify that former Yugoslavian regime was only nominally socialist. It was really some form of feudalism with well defined nationalist pecking order. And film industry to explain everything to people, from the Only One True History That Starts and Ends With WWII to the little details like which nation may tell jokes and which nations must laugh at them or else!!

"Narodna milicija" needed no warrants and "narodna vlast" needed no elections.

It was actually worse than current western moronization of population or their own mockery of democracy. Because it was deadlier for citizens than this charade we're getting into as from few years ago.

When I choose between east and west, I do not choose The Right Side, there’s no such thing. I choose lesser evil. West, with all its obvious faults, is lesser evil at this point.

Ne svadjaj se onda s babama koje znaju sve

Still, many of those things from old country are in effect today, just well hidden. I do aggree with your statements as i heard a lot of those things but its never simple. Even that comedian from ex-yu, was sent to prison for telling a joke in radio show. Its funny. But it was not so simple, he said bad names for one group of people.

Now days insults are ok. Even forced. Anyways...Not healthy subject to talk about and i admit u have more experiences from that time then me.

PS

Niko ne zna sve a ni ti nisi bakica

[Kaa-Tzik]

I am surprised that we havent seen children with tears in their eyes asking for changes while their parents are risking their lives for better tommorow. And some of the other prooven to be effective methods for supporting riots and conflicts. Or i have missed some of the latest news.

A second reply this because I have been seeing comments in other parts of internet like this one I quote.

"Lvov, super! great! thank you. Glory to the heroes of Lvov! We are at war in Kiev with the Satanist killer Yanukovich. Snipers are killing children and their bodies being hidden in the forest. Criminals from outside Kiev beat the Kievans. Damn him (Yanukovich). The Satanist Yanukovich and the Alpha and Berkut special forces should be hung in the square and the parents of the murdered children should urinate on the bodies"

Apart from being total BS, it rather shows that I am not wrong about this "revolution" coming from western Ukraine and Lvov in particular. Where this idiot says about "Criminals from outside Kiev beat the Kievans", he of course completely turns reality on it's head, because the problem in Kiev is caused by rioters from outside Kiev, ie, places like Lvov, the "glorious city of heroes" who beat old men because they are Red Army war veterans, and Jews because they are Jews, such "heroes". And it is now reported that government offices in Rovno (West Ukraine) have been taken over by the "revolutionaries", and this information from them, not government sources.

[Sir Smoke aLot]

A second reply this because I have been seeing comments in other parts of internet like this one I quote.

"Lvov, super! great! thank you. Glory to the heroes of Lvov! We are at war in Kiev with the Satanist killer Yanukovich. Snipers are killing children and their bodies being hidden in the forest. Criminals from outside Kiev beat the Kievans. Damn him (Yanukovich). The Satanist Yanukovich and the Alpha and Berkut special forces should be hung in the square and the parents of the murdered children should urinate on the bodies"

Apart from being total BS, it rather shows that I am not wrong about this "revolution" coming from western Ukraine and Lvov in particular. Where this idiot says about "Criminals from outside Kiev beat the Kievans", he of course completely turns reality on it's head, because the problem in Kiev is caused by rioters from outside Kiev, ie, places like Lvov, the "glorious city of heroes" who beat old men because they are Red Army war veterans, and Jews because they are Jews, such "heroes". And it is now reported that government offices in Rovno (West Ukraine) have been taken over by the "revolutionaries", and this information from them, not government sources.

That is so low really And watch the way that person is speaking... Such words ( even if i see only some half retarded person behind this words, satanic? reminds me of terrorists way of talking ) hits directly in heads and brings emotions, especially among less informed good hearth and family people.

[Kaa-Tzik]

That is so low really And watch the way that person is speaking... Such words ( even if i see only some half retarded person behind this words, satanic? reminds me of terrorists way of talking ) hits directly in heads and brings emotions, especially among less informed good hearth and family people.

And when you said earlier about soon there will be mothers crying about their children, well, BBC has broadcast an interview with a woman in Kiev crying about her children's future..... It is all so typical of cynical manipulation. Some people on other sites are saying that rioters and their supporters are being kidnapped from their hospital beds by security forces, taken to forest, tortured and shot. Here is a source of these lies. http://intellihub.co...itals-executed/ They are so blatant that they even quote as their two sources for these lies, themselves and Yahoo news, which uses as it's source the rioters medics, well well. I mention this because I doubt if it will be long before main western media and the likes of John McCain and the poodle William Hague will be saying this is all fact, and then the skies full of American drones etc, if not already...

Generally. The actions of those in western Ukraine in many cities are now beginning to de-stabilise the country as a whole. Demonstrations for the government to stop this "revolution" are taking place, or will take place soon across the eastern and southern regions. This of course will be reported by western media as "rioting" caused by the "wicked" Russian speakers on the orders of Putin, but many Ukranian speakers have taken part, and will. There will be no civil war, one of the reasons being the way the Army is configured and controlled, but there is a danger that now civil law seems to have broken down in much of the western regions, those Ukranians, the majority of peaceful people of both language groups across central, southern and eastern Ukraine will take steps to defend themselves against what is being orchestrated in Kiev and westen cities like Lvov and Rovno (Rivne as western media call it). In Simferopol, the regional capital of Crimea, demonstrations were held to support the legally elected government, and for it to stop this "revolution" incited by EU and US politicians and media. In Crimea people are forming patrols to look after their security, and money is being collected to form and equip local security forces. This all begins to spiral downwards.

I have a feeling that the situation will soon be described by America as so bad that they cannot possibly take part in Olympics, and then it's poodles will follow. We will see....

I would add to this caption, two nations destroyed, so far...

Edited January 25, 2014 by Kaa-Tzik

[Kaa-Tzik]

This fresh quote from John Kerry about the situation in Kiev.

“We are working with our partners to press the government of Ukraine to forego violence, to address the concerns of peaceful protesters, to foster dialogue, promote the freedom of assembly and expression,”

Does this proven moral and intelectual pygmy even know how to tie his shoes!. How, when despite what anybody thinks about the situation in Kiev, can he describe the rioters as "peaceful protestors". A statement like that is an insult to everbody and an assault on common sense. So, Mr Kerry, the next time there is rioting in America, it will be okay for foreign politicians to support the rioters and strongly condemn any attempt by the police to control the situation. And of course Mr Kerry, you have no problems with foreign politicians visiting America and calling for the elected government to be overthrown.....

[Sir Smoke aLot]

Yeah, this is indeed an example of 'peaceful' protest.

Were sandbags and car tires prepared few weeks ago? That stuff was in the streets overnite, in large quanity's... Not possible without longer organization.

And pictures from this link below are pictures of 'oppressed and tortured Kiev'

CLICK

What a wonderful place is being destroyed and there are people in the world who say ' this will be for Ukraine, for Ukrainian people '.

And yeah, i remember Lybia, that was... The first thing that 'new order' did, was to kill Gaddafi and we all have seen what and how they tortured him.

People had everything with him as leader. Lets see waht future brings to them.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Sir Smoke aLot

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Protests calling for the EU to come in and save the people from an oppressive regime?

Now, where did I hear this before.... was it Austria or Poland in the 30s......

[Helen of Annoy]

Protests calling for the EU to come in and save the people from an oppressive regime?

Now, where did I hear this before.... was it Austria or Poland in the 30s......

No, you heard that in 1990s, when the oppressive and chauvinist Serbian regime was destroying anyone who didn’t want to bow to them.

Think before you post in favour of Milosevic-like dictators.

It’s always nice to see apparatchiks froth so desperately.

Deny, comrades, deny harder

[Kaa-Tzik]

Protests calling for the EU to come in and save the people from an oppressive regime?

Now, where did I hear this before.... was it Austria or Poland in the 30s......

Oppresive regime? oh really. If this was so, then why are not all Ukranians out rioting, why only a minority from the western regions? Do you suggest that people in the western regions are "oppressed" by the other regions, or by central government?. The logic behind your comment is rather damaged by the facts. Your phrasing also strongly suggests an outside force, the EU, entering Ukraine to "restore order", as Barosso has also intimated. Are you happy with making war in Europe? do you wish WWIII to get closer?.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Kaa-Tzik

[Sir Smoke aLot]

No, you heard that in 1990s, when the oppressive and chauvinist Serbian regime was destroying anyone who didn’t want to bow to them.

Think before you post in favour of Milosevic-like dictators.

It’s always nice to see apparatchiks froth so desperately.

Deny, comrades, deny harder

Milosevic was indeed special 'mental' case. I would not compare him to anyone else as main idea leading him was to destroy all the others and have the lands for his people.

Protests calling for the EU to come in and save the people from an oppressive regime?

Now, where did I hear this before.... was it Austria or Poland in the 30s......

I dont see anyone who needs to be saved but after this riots started there are victims and crimes are being commited. That is telling much. People in many other countries were doing just fine but after so called 'revolutions' started they lost so much.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Sir Smoke aLot

[Kaa-Tzik]

No, you heard that in 1990s, when the oppressive and chauvinist Serbian regime was destroying anyone who didn’t want to bow to them.

Think before you post in favour of Milosevic-like dictators.

It’s always nice to see apparatchiks froth so desperately.

Deny, comrades, deny harder

The "frothing" is from EU/US politicians and media. Perhaps you can answer that if these riots are to "free the people from oppression", then why are only western Ukranians rioting, why only a minority of the population. Odessa has a mixed population, were is the "oppression", were are the riots and calls to be "saved" by the EU?

Edited January 25, 2014 by Kaa-Tzik