Will Russia come to the "aid" of Ukraine?

[Kaa-Tzik]

So, some people think that these riots are about "freedom and democracy", which apparently all Ukranians have except those in the western regions who are "oppressed", and can riot in the cold weather while Ukranians from other regions cannot, hmm. Anyway just a brief mention, and just to remind, that this began with a demonstration by a wider group of Ukranians, though mostly from the west, about Yanukovich not signing a bad deal with EU. Fine, no problem, but it did seem odd for anybody to come onto the streets about this, it was not a cancelled vote to join in EU after all. Fast forward to now and it is not about EU at all, but to end the "oppression" of the Ukranian people, a minority of whom, who are rioting, are unhappy about new laws to stop them, yes, you guessed it, rioting, well well.

So, let us look at the actions of the Ivano-Frankovsk Regional Council, a western region of Ukraine. A decision, signed by the Council Chairman, Vasily Skripnichuk, has now come into force that prohibits the activities of the Party of Regions, the party of Viktor Yanukovich, the democratically elected President, and the Communist Party of Ukraine. It does not stop there, for it is now illegal in the Ivano-Frankovsk region to even display and use the symbols of these two now banned political parties, one actually being the party of government. These parties and their symbols are refered to as "Contrary to the national interest and violates the rights and freedoms of the citizens of Ukraine", and will be removed from the register of political parties so that it will not be possible for anybody in Ivan-Frankovsk region to vote for them. Well, so much for the "good guys" the rioters and EU fan boys being on the side of "democracy and freedom". Supporters of these "democrats", try explaining this, please.

Edit to add that it is now reported that another western Ukrainian region, Ternopol, has followed Ivano-Frankovsk in banning the democratically elected ruling party. So far this is only an unverified report, though I doubt it is false, and expect other western regions to follow later today or in the days ahead.

I searched for an English report to back up my post, but cannot find any, probably as reporting this does not suit purpose of western media/politicians, so only in Russian.

http://itar-tass.com...panorama/914807

Edited January 26, 2014 by Kaa-Tzik

[Helen of Annoy]

My point was it's all looking like history repeating. A few agitators, a lot of noise and an outside power steps claiming to be "the saviour of the people".

The Nazis did it, the invaded Austria that way, claiming that there was a "German" minority who were being oppressed and calling to be saved/protected.

You mixed up Austria and Czech.

Not to mention who would be the possible invading force in Ukraine, with its minority to protect, if we accept your forced Nazi analogy.

Personally, I wouldn’t go that far.

But I’ve seen people claiming Ceausescu was brought down by evil western force and now Romanians are starving in EU, so nothing may surprise me anymore. Irritate, yes, but suprise, not really.

Only thing more annoying than aggressive, braindead right is aggressive, braindead left. Not that it's easy to tell them apart.

[Kaa-Tzik]

Some uncomfortable (for some), truths about the EU friends in Ukraine. Here is a photo of peaceful democratic demonstrators rioters. Note the nazi symbol on his helmet. This was the old symbol of the one of the Ukranian opposition parties "Svoboda" (freedom). They may not use this symbol now officially, but, well, old habits die hard. The leader of Svoboda is Oleg Tyagnibok, also written as Oleh Tyahnybok, and he is one of the people that Yanukovich had unsuccesfully, thank God, invited into his government.

They also appear to be wearing what may be a mix of British and German camoflage, just the sort of thing that "peacfull demonstrators" wear...

This next photo, though clearly taken in better weather before these riots, shows members of Svoboda. It is written on their blue banners and on the back of the white T-shirt of the guy on the right. But look what is written on the front of the shirts of the other guys. It says "Kill Jews!", well that is polite, for it is actually a Ukranian version of not "Jew" or "Hebrew", a proper translation is "Kill kikes!". Nice guys these friends of the EU and John McCain etc, eh.....

* Note, both photos are in the public domain and are widely disseminated.

Edited January 26, 2014 by Kaa-Tzik

[Helen of Annoy]

Aha, kids with extremist paraphernalia, the sight unseen... breaking news, indeed.

What Kaa-Tzik conveniently doesn’t know is that Jews are not mentioned in ethnic but historical and political context.

It goes back to Holodomor, in 1932-33, when Stalin, with his satanic cleverness (do not mistake for wisdom), picked Jewish communist commissars to carry out genocide by hunger on Ukrainians, so he can repopulate Ukraine, the bread basket of USSR, with people more governable than Ukrainians. After misusing communists who happened to be Jewish, he disposed most of them to gulags. Everyone unhappy except Stalin. But Kaa-Tzik didn't know that.

It’s extremely unfortunate and offensive to call any sort of traitor a “Jew”, but we have Christianity and their obsession with Jewish “guilt” for treason against Jesus to blame for that embarrassing expression found in few Slavic languages.

Someone should tell these kids they are not doing their cause a favour by reaching for that part of folklore, definitely.

I will be the someone that will tell you, Kaa-Tzik, that hypocrisy is one disgusting trait.

Extremist folklore is the fact of life in countries where severity of repression was determined by nationality. To get rid of it, people must be let to explore and display their identity freely.

You can’t trick people into accepting your identity instead of their own, by telling them you’re so close you’re practically the same. It didn’t work so far, it won’t work ever.

Edit: by the way, our Croatian Garda back in the 1990s wore parts of old East German uniforms Recycling, folks, recycling wins!

Edited January 26, 2014 by Helen of Annoy

[Kaa-Tzik]

Aha, kids with extremist paraphernalia, the sight unseen... breaking news, indeed.

What Kaa-Tzik conveniently doesn’t know is that Jews are not mentioned in ethnic but historical and political context.

It goes back to Holodomor, in 1932-33, when Stalin, with his satanic cleverness (do not mistake for wisdom), picked Jewish communist commissars to carry out genocide by hunger on Ukrainians, so he can repopulate Ukraine, the bread basket of USSR, with people more governable than Ukrainians. After misusing communists who happened to be Jewish, he disposed most of them to gulags. Everyone unhappy except Stalin. But Kaa-Tzik didn't know that.

It’s extremely unfortunate and offensive to call any sort of traitor a “Jew”, but we have Christianity and their obsession with Jewish “guilt” for treason against Jesus to blame for that embarrassing expression found in few Slavic languages.

Someone should tell these kids they are not doing their cause a favour by reaching for that part of folklore, definitely.

I will be the someone that will tell you, Kaa-Tzik, that hypocrisy is one disgusting trait.

Extremist folklore is the fact of life in countries where severity of repression was determined by nationality. To get rid of it, people must be let to explore and display their identity freely.

You can’t trick people into accepting your identity instead of their own, by telling them you’re so close you’re practically the same. It didn’t work so far, it won’t work ever.

Edit: by the way, our Croatian Garda back in the 1990s wore parts of old East German uniforms Recycling, folks, recycling wins!

This post by you is disgusting. A desperate and transparent attempt at a smokescreen over Ukranian fascists. These are not "some kids", they are members of a major Ukranian political party that is essentially a fascist party. Svoboda has a secondry name "The Social Nationalist Party of Ukraine", ie, the National Socialist Party, nazis. Twist and turn and lie all you like, but the truth keeps finding you out here. What next, will you defend the Holocaust and Hitler, because you come very close already. But hey, they invaded Russia and killed millions of Jews and Russians, so they must be the "good guys" eh. You should stop now and consider what you post and what is implied by what you post.

Edited January 26, 2014 by Kaa-Tzik

[bmk1245]

Some uncomfortable (for some), truths about the EU friends in Ukraine. Here is a photo of peaceful democratic demonstrators rioters. Note the nazi symbol on his helmet. This was the old symbol of the one of the Ukranian opposition parties "Svoboda" (freedom). They may not use this symbol now officially, but, well, old habits die hard. The leader of Svoboda is Oleg Tyagnibok, also written as Oleh Tyahnybok, and he is one of the people that Yanukovich had unsuccesfully, thank God, invited into his government.

They also appear to be wearing what may be a mix of British and German camoflage, just the sort of thing that "peacfull demonstrators" wear...

[...]

This next photo, though clearly taken in better weather before these riots, shows members of Svoboda. It is written on their blue banners and on the back of the white T-shirt of the guy on the right. But look what is written on the front of the shirts of the other guys. It says "Kill Jews!", well that is polite, for it is actually a Ukranian version of not "Jew" or "Hebrew", a proper translation is "Kill kikes!". Nice guys these friends of the EU and John McCain etc, eh.....

[...]

* Note, both photos are in the public domain and are widely disseminated.

Idiots are idiots everywhere. Need examples from Russia? Here yea go:

What do they shout? Isn't it "Get a **** out of here, Russia is for Russians!", huh? And one creep "Bej zhidov, spasaj Rossiju!"...

[Helen of Annoy]

Nothing new, I’m just posting because Kaa-Tzik told me not to post.

But while I’m here, here’s a newlywed couple, at barricades

http://www.tportal.hr/vijesti/svijet/311814/Sve-vladine-zgrade-pod-opsadom-prosvjednika.html?utm_source=nasl_vijesti&utm_medium=klik_vijesti&utm_campaign=Track_nasl_vijesti

And it seems all government buildings are under siege of Ukrainian people.

[Mr.United_Nations]

So according to Kaa-Tzik every protester is either a facist or some crazy not job. Isn't Russia very racist? and Ukraine? I doubt he has ever seen these protests in real life, i bet hes watching it on Russia Today he saying its all propaganda but he does not realize hes doing exactly the same? Contradict or what?

[Helen of Annoy]

So according to Kaa-Tzik every protester is either a facist or some crazy not job. Isn't Russia very racist? and Ukraine? I doubt he has ever seen these protests in real life, i bet hes watching it on Russia Today he saying its all propaganda but he does not realize hes doing exactly the same? Contradict or what?

What may seem as racism to western society is often simply eastern bluntness.

Short people are still short, not vertically challenged. But no one sane thinks it’s wrong to be short. And dwarf jokes will be told.

Then you do have actual racists, mostly disoriented, angry kids, but their problems are deeper than racism, it’s only the role they chose in attempt to vent their anger.

[Mekorig]

It is nice to see that the Russian ciberwarfare section took some lesson from the chinese about internet opinion. Keep the good job Kaa-Tzik!

After speaking with some family i have in the old motherland, thing are quiet for the comon men, at least in Ternopil and Kharkiv. And in Kharkiv, it is comon knowledge that the city oligarchs, hevaily backed by the russians, and getting more money to mobilize people to oppose the "evil western ukraine facist".

[Kaa-Tzik]

Idiots are idiots everywhere. Need examples from Russia? Here yea go:

[media=][/media]

What do they shout? Isn't it "Get a **** out of here, Russia is for Russians!", huh? And one creep "Bej zhidov, spasaj Rossiju!"...

The difference in Ukraine is that these fascists are an official political party with MPs. And they have other slogans they wear and shout, but I will not repeat them. These fascists also exist in Lithuania, "Union of Lithuanian Nationalist Youth", or have you forgotten... here is a photo of a facist rally organised by them. See the "death's head" and modified SS runes and swastika on the flag in the centre. This organisation of Jew and Russian haters gets funding from the EU. The very small number of facist thugs in Russia get no funding from anybody, or political support, or support from anybody and are laughed at by vast majority of population. Seems facists in other countries are rather better regarded. And no "creeps" ever march through Vilnius or Kaunus shouting "Lithuania for Lithuanians". I wonder what those who had Polish/Lithuanian rule for centuries think of that, or is your imperialism better than anybody elses. I think the stink in the toilet is just as bad when you have been than anybody else......

Edited January 28, 2014 by Kaa-Tzik

[Kaa-Tzik]

It is nice to see that the Russian ciberwarfare section took some lesson from the chinese about internet opinion. Keep the good job Kaa-Tzik!

After speaking with some family i have in the old motherland, thing are quiet for the comon men, at least in Ternopil and Kharkiv. And in Kharkiv, it is comon knowledge that the city oligarchs, hevaily backed by the russians, and getting more money to mobilize people to oppose the "evil western ukraine facist".

Garbage. There is one voice in all the thousands of members of this forum trying to show the reality of the Ukranian opposition and you call it "cyberwarfare". Pull your head out...

The populations of Nikolayev, Kharkov, Odessa and Zaporozhe had to stop western Ukranian "Euromaidans" and facists from attempting to take over government buildings. In Nikolayev they met the "Euromaidans" at the railway station and turned them back, without violence. In the other places the f"Euromaidans" had been bussed in and were also run out of town, again without any violence. In Crimea it has become necessary to form civic protection groups and to gaurd the routes into Crimea to stop the "Euromaidans" entering. Why are you not in Ukraine? perhaps it is because you are descended from the facists who killed Jews and Russians in the war and then fought for the crimminal traitor Stepan Bandera. Many of these children and grandchildren of facist scum live in American continent. Who is your neighbour, the grandchild of some SS officer maybe......

Edited January 28, 2014 by Kaa-Tzik

[Kaa-Tzik]

So according to Kaa-Tzik every protester is either a facist or some crazy not job. Isn't Russia very racist? and Ukraine? I doubt he has ever seen these protests in real life, i bet hes watching it on Russia Today he saying its all propaganda but he does not realize hes doing exactly the same? Contradict or what?

Why do you not adress me directly? Hmm. Anyway, please show any post I have made were I state that "all" the protestors are facist. From your comments I guess you get your information from your backside. I guess like some other posters on this thread, you are a facist anti-semitic racist. That is said in some posts certainly prove it. I'm surprised the anti-semitism is not dealt with, but I guess the racist remarks, and sometimes thinly veiled death wishes for Russians is acceptable here..... I think if the word Russian was swapped in the posts for "Black" or "Asian", then action would be taken, but you hide under your mother's skirt....

[bmk1245]

Once again: every country have their own brown shirted idiots. Do I have to put it in larger fonts?!

[...] This organisation of Jew and Russian haters gets funding from the EU. [...]

Funny, this organization gets "funding" from EU, but was declined permit to march (and some were even arrested) last year due to racist slogans in previous years. But Putkins propaganda machine didn't told you that, cause that doesn't fit their agenda.

[Kaa-Tzik]

Once again: every country have their own brown shirted idiots. Do I have to put it in larger fonts?!

Funny, this organization gets "funding" from EU, but was declined permit to march (and some were even arrested) last year due to racist slogans in previous years. But Putkins propaganda machine didn't told you that, cause that doesn't fit their agenda.

And the people in the photo are not marching......

You and other posters know the reality of western Ukraine, but wish to smother anything by constantly shouting anti Russia/Putin slogans. It is very obvious, and it is also insulting to the intelligence of people who read these posts. I wonder what "propoganda machine" is at work here......

[bmk1245]

And the people in the photo are not marching......

You and other posters know the reality of western Ukraine, but wish to smother anything by constantly shouting anti Russia/Putin slogans. It is very obvious, and it is also insulting to the intelligence of people who read these posts. I wonder what "propoganda machine" is at work here......

Sorry, but your phobias cloud your thinking capabilities: photo you posted was taken in 2012, not in 2013 - that shows exif data. Try again.

[Kaa-Tzik]

Sorry, but your phobias cloud your thinking capabilities: photo you posted was taken in 2012, not in 2013 - that shows exif data. Try again.

You are getting ridiculous in your thrashing about to divert attention. In my post I say this about the photo "here is a photo of a facist rally organised by them". Apart from it taking place in Lithuania I give no date, time or city. It is, as I am sure other people here will see, simply an example of facists in Lithuania. Perhaps you would care to say what is written on the banner on the left . But hey, your ridiculous posts certainly divert from the situation in Ukraine. Odd you and the others can only shout anti Russia/Putin slogans, and not give any informed opinion on what is actually happening in Ukraine. What is the situation in Simferopol today? and where may any problems come from? do you know anything about it except to chant "Its Putin". How were the "Euromaidans" from Lvov dealt with when they got to Odessa, with bullets? (from Putin of course), or by a counter demonstration of local people singing and dancing peacefully. Well, here they are. Notice that they are not armed like medieval warriors or have banners calling for the death of anybody, they simply do not want euro/facist rioters trying to cause problems in their city.

The only phobias and bias shown here is not from me, but from "professional" Russophobes on this forum who show their hate and ignorance of reality in every post they make. Not one realistic answer as to why you all think it is ok for EU/US politicians to call for overthrow of government in Ukraine, and to support riots, but will not tolerate this in your own countries. In US or any other country these riots would have been supressed by force long time ago. Phobia, yeah, go tell the marines....

Edited January 28, 2014 by Kaa-Tzik

[Sir Smoke aLot]

You are getting ridiculous in your thrashing about to divert attention. In my post I say this about the photo "here is a photo of a facist rally organised by them". Apart from it taking place in Lithuania I give no date, time or city. It is, as I am sure other people here will see, simply an example of facists in Lithuania. But hey, your ridiculous posts certainly divert from the situation in Ukraine. Odd you and the others can only shout anti Russia/Putin slogans, and not give any informed opinion on what is actually happening in Ukraine. What is the situation in Simferopol today? and where may any problems come from? do you know anything about it except to chant "Its Putin". How were the "Euromaidans" from Lvov dealt with when they got to Odessa, with bullets? (from Putin of course), or by a counter demonstration of local people singing and dancing peacefully. Well, here they are

The only phobias and bias shown here is not from me, but from "professional" Russophobes on this forum who show their hate and ignorance of reality in every post they make. Not one realistic answer as to why you all think it is ok for EU/US politicians to call for overthrow of government in Ukraine, and to support riots, but will not tolerate this in your own countries. In US or any other country these riots would have been supressed by force long time ago. Phobia, yeah, go tell the marines....

It seems that truth is not issue here m8. Its all about supporting rioters. Who are those people in the streets or how many grups demand changes... That is not important at all.

As u said, in any other country, especially countries that 'just have a need to interfere with other countries internal problems', such riots would be crashed in few hours time.

[bmk1245]

Kaa, when you point finger at someone, remember, that three fingers on your hand point back at you.

Can you translate for non-Russians what is written on the banners, huh?

[Kaa-Tzik]

Kaa, when you point finger at someone, remember, that three fingers on your hand point back at you.

Can you translate for non-Russians what is written on the banners, huh?

No, And it is I think rather rude to suggest that I repeat these anti Jewish slogans, why should I. While I translated one T-shirt slogan as an example of what one of the official Ukranian political parties ,Svoboda, is like, to translate all this will be very offensive to Jews un-necessarily, and I think you know that. This still distracts from Ukraine, doesn't it.......

Besides, these are a minority of ultra nationalists, not from main poltical parties, and not representative of Russian people. Svoboda and the other facists are representative of western Ukraine, aren't they.... And this thread is about Ukraine, isn't it......

Edited January 28, 2014 by Kaa-Tzik

[bmk1245]

No, And it is I think rather rude to suggest that I repeat these anti Jewish slogans, why should I. While I translated one T-shirt slogan as an example of what one of the official Ukranian political parties ,Svoboda, is like, to translate all this will be very offensive to Jews un-necessarily, and I think you know that. This still distracts from Ukraine, doesn't it.......

[...]

Ah, of course... And let me guess, those banners in my post were sponsored by EU, right?

[...]

Besides, these are a minority of ultra nationalists, not from main poltical parties, and not representative of Russian people. [...]

Zhirinovskij and his party alone takes the cake... Its just a matter of time when those ultra "brown shirted" will make their way into Duma.

[...]

Svoboda and the other facists are representative of western Ukraine, aren't they.... And this thread is about Ukraine, isn't it......

Thousands and thousands of Russians/other nationalities were killed and their homes burned since protests started, right? No?! Strange...

[Kaa-Tzik]

Ah, of course... And let me guess, those banners in my post were sponsored by EU, right?

Zhirinovskij and his party alone takes the cake... Its just a matter of time when those ultra "brown shirted" will make their way into Duma.

Thousands and thousands of Russians/other nationalities were killed and their homes burned since protests started, right? No?! Strange...

These points are a mix of lies, irelevance and putting words in my mouth.

So, you still only shout the tiresome anti Putin/Russia slogans and are unwilling or unable to discuss what is happening in Ukraine and why. I am not surprised at this.....

Edited January 28, 2014 by Kaa-Tzik

[Kaa-Tzik]

The rioters have their wish for the anti-riot laws to be repealed, or at least most of them, is this sufficient for them to go home? NO. Rioters arrested are to be released, is this sufficient for the rioters to go home? NO. Prime Minister Azarov's resignation is accepted by President Yanukovich, is this sufficient for the rioters to go home? NO. They want the democratically elected President of Ukraine ejected, and I remind that his election was not disputed, and new elections. So, all you so called democrats, is rioting now an acceptable way of changing a democratically elected government?, is rioting per se now acceptable ?. Okay to riot in Washington or London is it? And let's remind that in 2011 riots in UK, people were put in prison for stealing bottles of water, and in USA they would be shot on sight for looting.

By the way, the reason that western Ukranian "Euromaidans" and facists have being travelling to southern and eastern cities, is not in the realistic expectation of storming government offices, but to cause violence to make it look to the outside world that ALL of Ukraine is in crisis, with the majority of Ukranians against the democratically elected government. They have failed as they have been met by firm but non violent resistance, though try finding this truth in the western media, who are usually so virulently anti fascist, except when it suits them, except were there are games to played in Ukraine..... Soon, I think, there will be pictures of "Baroness" Ashton meeting the fascist rioters. I presume that when she is at home in UK she had cosy friendly chats with members of BNP and EDL. Seems Janus has many worshippers in EU.....

Edited January 28, 2014 by Kaa-Tzik

[Mr.United_Nations]

The rioters have their wish for the anti-riot laws to be repealed, or at least most of them, is this sufficient for them to go home? NO. Rioters arrested are to be released, is this sufficient for the rioters to go home? NO. Prime Minister Azarov's resignation is accepted by President Yanukovich, is this sufficient for the rioters to go home? NO. They want the democratically elected President of Ukraine ejected, and I remind that his election was not disputed, and new elections. So, all you so called democrats, is rioting now an acceptable way of changing a democratically elected government?, is rioting per se now acceptable ?. Okay to riot in Washington or London is it? And let's remind that in 2011 riots in UK, people were put in prison for stealing bottles of water, and in USA they would be shot on sight for looting.

By the way, the reason that western Ukranian "Euromaidans" and facists have being travelling to southern and eastern cities, is not in the realistic expectation of storming government offices, but to cause violence to make it look to the outside world that ALL of Ukraine is in crisis, with the majority of Ukranians against the democratically elected government. They have failed as they have been met by firm but non violent reistance, though try finding this truth in the western media, who are usually so virulently anti facist, except when it suits them, except were there are games to played in Ukraine. Soon, I think, there will be pictures of "Baroness" Ashton meeting the facist rioters, I presume that when she is at home in UK she had cosy friendly chats with members of BNP and EDL. Seems Janus has many worshippers in EU.....

You sound like a leader who is desperate to use the blame game, now I wonder who could that be..? Also why have you said facists are from the "West" where most of it is in Eastern Europe.

Also why are focusing on the rioters? Yes they have done alot of damage and disturbance but you have forgotten the majority of peaceful protests

[Kaa-Tzik]

You sound like a leader who is desperate to use the blame game, now I wonder who could that be..? Also why have you said facists are from the "West" where most of it is in Eastern Europe.

Also why are focusing on the rioters? Yes they have done alot of damage and disturbance but you have forgotten the majority of peaceful protests

You seem to have no idea of the geography, ethnic and linguistic mix, history of Ukraine or the present situation. The rioters in Kiev are from western Ukraine, not "the West". There are no peaceful protests in Kiev, they have all been replaced by fascist rioters who are not supported by the majority citizens of Kiev let alone the rest of Ukraine.