Will Russia come to the "aid" of Ukraine?

[Kelsier]

Hm, why wouldn't Ukraine be independent, both from EU/US and from Russia, they are nuclear force, aren't they?

[Helen of Annoy]

Hm, why wouldn't Ukraine be independent, both from EU/US and from Russia, they are nuclear force, aren't they?

No, they peacefully and willingly gave all the nukes to Russia.

[questionmark]

No, they peacefully and willingly gave all the nukes to Russia.

which may be something they regret in the near future.

[Mr.United_Nations]

Oh Btw i found an article way back in 2000

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2116454.stm

So who did you blame then?

[Kaa-Tzik]

So, the situation gets much worse and, despite that the majority of Ukranians say the country should not be broken up, it now seems that it will happen. So, thank you Obama, Cameron, Merkel, Tusk, Barosso, McCain, Ashton, Rassmussen, Kerry, Van Rumpy pumpy or whatever that moron's name is, and others.

I see even the western media is finding it difficult to continue the lie that fascist rioters and now, it must be said, putschists, are not "peaceful protestors". The rather disgracefull BBC are in a mess with this. Their correspondent in Kiev, Daniel Sandford, writes on his blog a quite good asessment of the real situation, clearly saying they are facist revolutionaries from western Ukraine, yet the news actually broadcast by the BBC TV and radio makes it seems that the rioting scum are "living saints" defending themselves against the dark forces of government oppression. Lies such as this will always eventually crash, and we see it happening now as the mask of these "peaceful protestors" is firmly ripped off for the world to see.

Despite what is being reported in the media, there is no "ceasfire", there never was as the putschists continued their assault on government and other buildings around Maidan. A firefight even now takes place in the Ukraine Hotel, putschist snipers fire from the Conservatory, and we even see journalists, behind police lines hit, and one journalist has been murdered, though away from Maidan. He was a journalist for a pro government outlet. The October Palace has been re-occupied by the putschists and police are actually retreating bit by bit as they are being fired at with live rounds, yet only have rubber bullets and teargas to use in return. So far at least ten police officers have been shot dead at Maidan and hundreds injured, many critically. Imagine if this happens in Washington or any western European city..... Yet this intelluctually and morally incompetant cockroach Obama still warns the democratically elected goverment of Ukraine that they will face "consequences" if they use force against "peaceful protestors". What a stinking pile of manure this Obama is, what a worthless hypocrite, what a threat to peace.

Under such fire from "peaceful protestors", one hundred MVD troops are reported to have surrendered to the putschists near the October Palace, and photos of shocked, bloodied and bandaged men seem to confirm this. IEDs, weapons and ammuntion have been discovered on a train from Lvov, the main home of the putschists, to Kiev. But I guess this is just the sort of supplies that "peaceful protesters" need, eh. The raids on police and government buildings in Lvov and other western Ukraine cities have resulted in the destruction of police databases, according to one official the entire database is destroyed, and more alarmingly, the theft of 1,000 pistols, 170 AK, SVD sniper rifles, PK machineguns and more than 18,000 rounds of ammunition.

It was reported in western media that this violence was started by the police storming the "peaceful protestors" in Maidan a few days back, this is a deliberate lie as the putschists actually stormed the offices of the "Party of Regions", Yanukovich's party, attacked staff and burned the building. Western media report that the main opposition party's offices were stormed and burned, yes, true, but not by the police. More and more calls from western Ukraine for the "de-Russification" of Ukraine. To get through to the brainless morons who support the "peaceful protestors", this is ethnic cleansing, that if carried out would involve the death of millions. But then WWIII would likely be happening....

IMO, Yanukovich, though democratically elected, has become a liability and his prevarications have accerbated the situation by showing the putschists that he is weak. That the Chief of Staff of Ukranian Army has been removed shows that behind the scenes a bad situation could happen if the goverment will not restore law and order to Ukraine. People are sick of what is happening, sick of the outrageous propoganda and hypocricy from EU/US and worried for the future because of what these putschists, and their backers want. The debate on signing a sinister EU "trade" agreement has long lost any revelance to what is happeing now in Ukraine. Nobody, absolutely nobody, takes up arms and rebels against a democratically elected governments postponement of a trade agreement, but they do if they want to overthrow a government for whatever reason. Yanukovich, for all his faults and petty corruption, was fairly and democratically elected, so by what right do a minority from one part of Ukraine have to overturn the democratic process and attempt violent overthrow of the government? Why does EU/US call for regime change in Ukraine?

Edited February 20, 2014 by Kaa-Tzik

[bmk1245]

Just heard on espreso tv (live feed): Berkuts are whacking MVD solders for refusing fight protestors...

[Kaa-Tzik]

Just heard on espreso tv (live feed): Berkuts are whacking MVD solders for refusing fight protestors...

The situation becomes very confused, as can be expected. espreso TV is hardly neutral as they call themselves the "revolution" channel, and I have not heard any reports of Berkut taking action against MVD. Reports seem to show that Berkut have in the last few hours withdrawn to their barracks. A number of scenarios for this present themselves. Firstly it is reported that members of Berkut have deserted in order to go home and protect their families. Earlier this year two members of Berkut were murdered, not at Maidan, but near their barracks when they were off duty. I mentioned in my previous post that it is reported that MVD and other police and security forces databases have been destroyed at locations in western Ukraine. It can be certain that before destruction, important information would have been extracted from the servers, such as the personal details of members of Berkut and other units. How can men remain at the front if they think their families may be attacked? The second scenario is that Berkut have returned to barracks to replace their battons and rubber bullets with AKs. The situation is so bad that if it is true that Berkut have returned to barracks to re-arm, then because of the now obvious loss of control by Yanukovich, Berkut now fight for real and in their own defence. IF, and a big IF, this is so, then I fear the worst for Ukraine. What we do know is that a unit of Crimean MVD in Kiev have had ten casualties to live fire, none fatal it seems, but it is not possible for any police to stand in front of bullets, and they have demanded their officers arm them with AKs. If this situation continues much longer then the Army will have no option but to restore order by force. This is not wanted of course as the West will scream and shout about purges and massacres and all the rest of the normal garbage, but what is to be done? how can order be restored?

I said that 100 MVD troops had been captured by the putschists at the October Palace. This number of course is in dispute. Some report the number as being 150, which seems far too high, and others that it is only a dozen at most. Here is a photo from this morning showing these guys. I count about 20 visible in just this shot and more will be out of shot, but now many is unknown. I cannot think that any other country in the world will let this happen to their police. Yanukovich is a coward and is finished and he should be removed immediately as his continued presence is clearly against the interests of ALL Ukranians.

*snip*

And here is a photo, again from this morning, of Obama's friends, the "peaceful protestors". For non Russian/Ukranian speakers, the sign on the wall with white writing on black and red background, says "right sector", a facist organisation. Note how "peaceful" they are......

*snip*

Edited February 20, 2014 by Saru
Removed copyrighted images

[Kaa-Tzik]

Rumours circulate that Russian MVD and even VDV (Army Parachutists) units are in Ukraine, and who knows, perhaps dressed as nuns... This is garbage with no proof offered except a few photos of some granny holding a Russian MVD badge. These badges are so easy to obtain that it is ridiculous. And why does she hold only the bdage, why not even the jacket, or the Russian MVD guy alleged to have been captured. But these cockroaches also say that members of VDV units are captured. The rumours and propaganda normally associated with war already begin, the black clouds gather overhead, the lovers of $ rub their greasy hands in expectation of profit from war.

Edit to add that in a fast changing situation it is announced from the Ministry of Internal affairs that the police are to be armed with fire-arms as the situation has deteriorated so severely. It is possible this is not simply to allow the police to defend themselves and the public properly, but to head off Army intervention, we will see. The minister also says this about the "normal" opposition, Klitschko etc. "They claim that they have no relationship to the radicals , but they incite them to attack, and then are not able to control them. The truce is broken, extremists continue to attack"

Rules of use of firearms by the police in this extreme situation have been issued. And I add that Ukranian police, unlike many other police forces, do not routinely go about their duties armed.

To protect civilians from attack that threatens their lives and health , as well as the release of hostages.

To repel an attack on a police officer or a member of his family if their life or health is threatened.

To repel an attack on protected objects, convoys, public housing , public facilities and public enterprises, institutions and organizations , as well as in the attack to recover buildings that have been stormed and occupied by crimminals.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Kaa-Tzik

[Kaa-Tzik]

This afternoon at the village of Meliorativny in the Dnipropetrovsk region (Eastern Ukraine), a troop train with 500 members of 25th Airborne Brigade was stopped from continuing it's journey to Kiev. It was stopped by 300 "activists" having barricaded the railway lines to Kiev, and 50 of them also laying on the tracks. The troops returned to barracks. That these "activists" become so bold is worrying. Some will say that it is good that the troops returned to barracks, but the questions I ask are who had authorised this troop movement and how had these "activists" known about it. This reminds of curious incidents before the October Revolution, of the hesitant actions of General Kornilov when he should have been moving at speed to Petrograd to stop the Bolshevik coup before it was too late. He feared movements of his troops towards Petrograd may have been seen by the Kerensky government as an attempted coup by him! What thoughts go thro the minds of Ukranian generals, what strange events, what will happen...

Interior Ministry now confirm 67 MVD troops now captured by the fascist revolutionaries in Kiev, their location and fate unknown. The earlier inconsistencies about MVD troops being captured is because they were captured in different locations and in different numbers, however, the majority, of which I posted the photo, were captured by the October Palace, which is adjacent to Maidan.

If there is soon massive hysteria in the media about children being killed in the chaos in Kiev, then this photo will give the reason. This shows the extreme cynicism and lack of morality of the facist revolutionaries that they take kids with them on their crimminal activities, shocking.

*snip*

Edited February 20, 2014 by Saru
Removed copyrighted image

[Mekorig]

Interesting to see Kaa-Tzik calling "facist" to the protestors in Ukraine, and in Venezuela Maduro´s administration also call "facists" to the protestors there. It seems its the new mode!

[bmk1245]

All that bedlam wouldn't have happened if V.Yanukovich would have kept his promises (strategic partnership with EU, and other promises) made before elections, and not turning 180 degs just before signing. Anyway, he is political corpse, no matter what will happen next.

[Kaa-Tzik]

Interesting to see Kaa-Tzik calling "facist" to the protestors in Ukraine, and in Venezuela Maduro´s administration also call "facists" to the protestors there. It seems its the new mode!

Try doing research before making such ignorant comments. Svoboda and Right Sector ARE facist organisations.

[stevewinn]

I turned the NEWS on last night and witnessed the scene in Kiev, my god, i couldn't make anything out, it looked like a Armageddon, im afraid the western approach will probably force the hand of Russia. im expecting the situation to worsen and Russia to deploy the troops. the western media will go into melt down, painting the picture of a big bad Russia laying all the troubles at Russia's door, with no mention of western involvement, provocation.

[Kaa-Tzik]

All that bedlam wouldn't have happened if V.Yanukovich would have kept his promises (strategic partnership with EU, and other promises) made before elections, and not turning 180 degs just before signing. Anyway, he is political corpse, no matter what will happen next.

The facists in Kiev are not friends of the EU, and this is well known, so were is this chaos anything to do with the trade agreement?. Besides, the elected president of any country has it in their legal power to postpone signing anything. There was no referendum in Ukraine about this EU treaty, he has not gone against any majority vote or any democratic process. If he had signed this treaty, then those in Ukraine who do not want it, would have cause to be as aggrieved as those that did want him to sign it. Any elected president must be able to govern and not be swayed by a mob on the streets that is unrepresentative of the majority of Ukranians and do not themselves want with the EU. This is not clear?

Edited February 20, 2014 by Kaa-Tzik

[Mr.United_Nations]

The facists in Kiev are not friends of the EU, and this is well known, so were is this chaos anything to do with the trade agreement?. Besides, the elected president of any country has it in their legal power to postpone signing anything. There was no referendum in Ukraine about this EU treaty, he has not gone against any majority vote or any democratic process. If he had signed this treaty, then those in Ukraine who do not want it, would have cause to be as aggrieved as those that did want him to sign it. Any elected president must be able to govern and not be swayed by a mob on the streets that is unrepresentative of the majority of Ukranians and do not themselves want with the EU. This is not clear?

When you decide on doing something, you do it, not a last second change

[Kaa-Tzik]

I turned the NEWS on last night and witnessed the scene in Kiev, my god, i couldn't make anything out, it looked like a Armageddon, im afraid the western approach will probably force the hand of Russia. im expecting the situation to worsen and Russia to deploy the troops. the western media will go into melt down, painting the picture of a big bad Russia laying all the troubles at Russia's door, with no mention of western involvement, provocation.

Russian intervention is highly unlikely as it would rally all western Ukranians to the cause of the facists and create more problems than it solves. Long before any even notional involvement by Russia, there would be an internal intervention by Ukranian armed forces, which would be successful, though of course lead to a firestorm of hate propaganda by western media and politicians. I honestly begin to see no satisfactory way out of this crisis except with the dividing of Ukraine, but it is not a straight forward east/west split, it is far more complicated than that.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Kaa-Tzik

[stevewinn]

When you decide on doing something, you do it, not a last second change

The reaction we see by the protesters to the postponing of that EU agreement is disproportionate. Don't you agree? which leads us to ask what is really going on to cause such civil unrest?

You get the impression Ukraine is in turmoil as a country yet outside of Kiev people look on in astonishment. as a example i see the Europa game (Football) in the city of Dnipropetrosk goes ahead. Tottenham Vs Dnipro.

Russian intervention is highly unlikely as it would rally all western Ukranians to the cause of the facists and create more problems than it solves. Long before any even notional involvement by Russia, there would be an internal intervention by Ukranian armed forces, which would be successful, though of course lead to a firestorm of hate propaganda by western media and politicians. I honestly begin to see no satisfactory way out of this crisis except with the dividing of Ukraine, but it is not a straight forward east/west split, it is far more complicated than that.

Yes i agree.

[Mr.United_Nations]

The reaction we see by the protesters to the postponing of that EU agreement is disproportionate. Don't you agree? which leads us to ask what is really going on to cause such civil unrest?

You get the impression Ukraine is in turmoil as a country yet outside of Kiev people look on in astonishment. as a example i see the Europa game (Football) in the city of Dnipropetrosk goes ahead. Tottenham Vs Dnipro.

Yes i agree.

No what was a peaceful protest turned ugly because it gets dragged out, it happened in Libya, Syria and nearly Egypt. When keep on digging a hole, the harder it is to get out of it and thats what we are seeing right now. Frustration sets in, unlike here where protests go home after a number of hours.

Edited February 20, 2014 by The New Richard Nixon

[stevewinn]

No what was a peaceful protest turned ugly because it gets dragged out, it happened in Libya, Syria and nearly Egypt. When keep on digging a hole, the harder it is to get out of it and thats what we are seeing right now. Frustration sets in, unlike here where protests go home after a number of hours.

im glad you mentioned the Arab spring, who 'sprung' that? surely the 'up rising' wasn't caused by a long drawn out peaceful protest turned bad?

[Helen of Annoy]

Stay on topic, people.

It's not spring and Ukraine is in Europe.

Families of politicians close to Janukovich and of his two sons were flown out of Ukraine today.

Their luggage was brought to airport in armoured vehicles, because that’s how bizarrely rich people travel.

Latest news is that Janukovich is suddenly ready for elections as early as sometime this year, which is few months and 100 dead late.

Police snipers are shooting even already wounded people lying on the ground, they shot young nurse, wearing very visible red cross, in the neck. What kind of pervert shoots young girl in the neck? Why in the neck? Because the damn degenerate was afraid she might be wearing bullet proof vest under her white coat with giant, impossible to not see, red cross. Cathedral was turned into hospital.

These are not just political differences anymore, these are savage crimes of the current regime.

[+OverSword]

Stupid American chiming in here, the reason for these violent protests seem pretty simple to me. Your average Ukranian wanted to be part of the EU, the multi billionaire leader of the Ukraine took a bribe to instead go back to the old system of being subservient to Russia. The people don't like this butt hole giving thier independance back to mother russia thus violence ensues because they know damn well normal chanels are not going to work in this situation. Good luck and God bless to them.

[Helen of Annoy]

This afternoon at the village of Meliorativny in the Dnipropetrovsk region (Eastern Ukraine), a troop train with 500 members of 25th Airborne Brigade was stopped from continuing it's journey to Kiev. It was stopped by 300 "activists" having barricaded the railway lines to Kiev, and 50 of them also laying on the tracks. The troops returned to barracks. That these "activists" become so bold is worrying.

*snip*

You should worry that according to Russian Pravda (no less) 70% of these soldiers do not want to take part in violence against the protestors.

Sane people should be relieved but not surprised.

Because sane people don’t kill their own.

Speaking of sane people, deputy chief of police in Cherkassy showed up among the protestors and announced the police in that town is with the people and they will secure the peace together with the people. That's what police is for, not to snipe nurses.

[Mr.United_Nations]

im glad you mentioned the Arab spring, who 'sprung' that? surely the 'up rising' wasn't caused by a long drawn out peaceful protest turned bad?

some guy set himself on fire in Tunisia, true but Im talking about what could happen, thats why i mentioned Libya and Syria

[The Silver Thong]

http://www.break.com/video/you-need-to-know-what-s-happening-in-the-ukraine-2579357

[+and-then]

http://www.break.com...ukraine-2579357

That says it ALL.