2/4/14 Bill Nye Debates Ken Ham

[Davros of Skaro]

Looking at the etymology of the word "Behemoth" puts the "Hippo" as the most likely

identity.

(Water-Ox)

http://www.etymonlin...p?term=behemoth

Leviathan reminds me how Crocs will twist to rip chunks of flesh off of their

drowned prey.

(perhaps related to liwyah "wreath," from root l-w-h- "to wind, turn, twist.")

http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none

"When groups are sharing a kill, they use each other for leverage, biting down hard and then

twisting their bodies to tear off large pieces of meat in a "death roll". They may also get

the necessary leverage by lodging their prey under branches or stones, before rolling and

ripping."

http://en.wikipedia..../Nile_crocodile

Animal Planet vid of Croc "Death Roll" behavior.

Edited February 3, 2014 by davros of skaro

[+Link of Hyrule]

http://www.christianitytoday.com/edstetzer/2014/february/americans-and-creation-v-evolution-debate.html?paging=off

What American pastors think?

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4723766

Nye and Ham should not debate tonight?

I think the debate's over, according to the time Ken Ham should be interviewed presently by Piers Morgan. Didn't watch it, though. I'm not expecting wild new insights.

[Sundew]

It also talks about smoke coming out his nostrils and fire coming out his mouth which sounds like a dragon to me. But the tail that sways like a cedar and the fact that he has scales (Job 41 : 15), has terrible teeth ( 41 :14) makes the deep boil like a pot (41 :31) and he is made without fear (41 :33), this just screams crocodile to me. The behemoth in chapter 40 is obviously a hippo

Many animals are mentions in the closing chapers of Job: The bear and its cubs (in context probably referring the constellation Ursa Major), the ibis, the rooster, lions and lionesses, the raven, the mountain goat (ibex), the donkey, the wild ox, the ostrich, the horse, the hawk, the eagle, the behemoth and the leviathan. Point being that all the animals listed here are identifiable, if correctly translated from the ancient language, except the last two. I cannot say for certainty what these two animals are, but if they are indeed the hippo and the crocodile, very familiar animals to those living around the Nile River area, it would seem reasonable they would have the known names for those two animals commonly used at that time.

[+DieChecker]

Sways like a cedar, not the size of a cedar. The behemoth is described as having bones like tubes of bronze and legs like bars of iron, does that make it a robot?

Have you watched hippos walk? It does sway a bit. Elephant's tails sway more though...

It also talks about smoke coming out his nostrils and fire coming out his mouth which sounds like a dragon to me. But the tail that sways like a cedar and the fact that he has scales (Job 41 : 15), has terrible teeth ( 41 :14) makes the deep boil like a pot (41 :31) and he is made without fear (41 :33), this just screams crocodile to me. The behemoth in chapter 40 is obviously a hippo

I always thought that the Croodile was the inspiration of the Leviatian.

[Davros of Skaro]

Many animals are mentions in the closing chapers of Job: The bear and its cubs (in context probably referring the constellation Ursa Major), the ibis, the rooster, lions and lionesses, the raven, the mountain goat (ibex), the donkey, the wild ox, the ostrich, the horse, the hawk, the eagle, the behemoth and the leviathan. Point being that all the animals listed here are identifiable, if correctly translated from the ancient language, except the last two. I cannot say for certainty what these two animals are, but if they are indeed the hippo and the crocodile, very familiar animals to those living around the Nile River area, it would seem reasonable they would have the known names for those two animals commonly used at that time.

There are people that believe in Unicorns thanks to the Bible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rhinoceros

[spacecowboy342]

Many animals are mentions in the closing chapers of Job: The bear and its cubs (in context probably referring the constellation Ursa Major), the ibis, the rooster, lions and lionesses, the raven, the mountain goat (ibex), the donkey, the wild ox, the ostrich, the horse, the hawk, the eagle, the behemoth and the leviathan. Point being that all the animals listed here are identifiable, if correctly translated from the ancient language, except the last two. I cannot say for certainty what these two animals are, but if they are indeed the hippo and the crocodile, very familiar animals to those living around the Nile River area, it would seem reasonable they would have the known names for those two animals commonly used at that time.

Poetic license or mistranslation leaps to mind. Whatever the case, the one thing they were not is dinosaurs

[Almagest]

Watching the debate now. The best thing Ham has summoned so far is "you weren't there."

[Davros of Skaro]

Here is the debate from the "Answers in Genesis" Youtube channel (Starts around 13:00.)

I love baked, or fried Dinosaur, but it does not prove the Bible, or disprove Evolution.

[Almagest]

Lots of weasel words, redefining words and terms for his own purposes. He's yet to put forward a single piece of evidence, only clips of other creationist saying they disagree with the interpretation of certain experiments.

Go Bill Nye, no BS, just evidence followed by evidence.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Almagest

[Rlyeh]

I can't stand Answers in Genesis, the charlatans who run it propagate straw men like "Evolution says we came from rocks".

[DecoNoir]

I have to admit its a tad surreal to see a rather significant part of my childhood "Bill Nye the Science Guy! BILL! BILL! BILL!" in something such as this. Hats off to you Nye, you kickstarted a lifelong intrest in science... and acquiring knowledge in general.

Now I have the theme song in my head... ah the 90's.

Edited February 5, 2014 by DecoNoir

[Davros of Skaro]

Well I think Bill did good, but he should have used "Reproduction" instead of "Sex" as a choice of words in one part of the debate.

At around 1:43:13-ish when Ken sums up the Fruit Bat Teeth vs Lion Teeth, a white dot flies from his head area to the upper right corner of the screen, is that the Holy Spirit? LOL!

If I remember my Science right, one cannot Carbon date Rock it's self, and Ken looked like he was trying to poison the well on all forms of dating (I have to watch it again.)

The Wood found below ground incased in Basalt as Ken described, could be the result of an ancient "Sinkhole", and what does "incased" actually mean?

I hope people get the message of the importance of Science, and that believing a book is one thing, but throwing away what does not fit it is detimental for progress.

When Ken Ham was showing video testimony of other Creationist Scientists, I was reminded of this bit from Richard Dawkins.

[media=]

[/media] Edited February 5, 2014 by davros of skaro

[redhen]

I have to admit its a tad surreal to see a rather significant part of my childhood "Bill Nye the Science Guy! BILL! BILL! BILL!" in something such as this. Hats off to you Nye, you kickstarted a lifelong intrest in science... and acquiring knowledge in general.

Not to derail the thread, but I was searching for a video clip on proton gradients and their importance to life, when somehow the search engine threw up a link to my old TV professor from the 1960's.

[media=]

[/media]

Julius Sumner Miller, what a great name for a physicist. He was a student and friend of Einstein, and a fantastic promoter of science for kids.

Alas, there are no episodes of him explaining abiogenesis to children, that would have been taboo back then.

[spacecowboy342]

I have to admit its a tad surreal to see a rather significant part of my childhood "Bill Nye the Science Guy! BILL! BILL! BILL!" in something such as this. Hats off to you Nye, you kickstarted a lifelong intrest in science... and acquiring knowledge in general.

Now I have the theme song in my head... ah the 90's.

Yeah, for me it was Carl Sagan, in the 70's but I know what you mean.

[Bavarian Raven]

There are people that believe in Unicorns thanks to the Bible.

Blame the vikings/norse too... They told people norwhale tusks were "unicorn" tusks. Good old marketing schemes.

[redhen]

Good old marketing schemes.

Same sort of people who sell magical tiger bones and rhino horns for virility.

[+Link of Hyrule]

If you go by the video, a rhino horn IS a unicorn horn!

[Imaginarynumber1]

Not to derail the thread, but I was searching for a video clip on proton gradients and their importance to life, when somehow the search engine threw up a link to my old TV professor from the 1960's.

[media=]

[/media]

Julius Sumner Miller, what a great name for a physicist. He was a student and friend of Einstein, and a fantastic promoter of science for kids.

Alas, there are no episodes of him explaining abiogenesis to children, that would have been taboo back then.

Julius Sumner Miller!!! I love that man!!!

[Davros of Skaro]

If you go by the video, a rhino horn IS a unicorn horn!

I have chatted with people online that believe in Horses with a single Horn coming out of their Forehead that actually lived, and was on Noah's Ark.I explained that their version of the Bible is actually talking about the single Horned Rhino, and they refused to look at the etymological evidence I presented to them.I was not debating the Ark story, but that there is no evidence for horned Horses, but as mythology.

Do you see anything wrong with that?

Why is God appeased with bunt offerings of animal entrails, and Blood sacrifices?

Show me the symbology that proves once, and for all that the ancient Romans Crucified people on a Cross as described in the NT Gospels, and I will shut up.The Tropaion (Trophy) symbology in my profile, and signature are sacred Crosses that pay tribute

to "Victoria" the Winged Goddess of victory, and I see no symbolic evidence of putting living people on it.

Is believing in magical Blood that cleanses Sin once one repents, and believes in such Blood sacrifice any better than believing the Earth is 6,000 years old?

[Drayno]

I took the time to watch the video earlier.

While I can respect Mr. Ham for being a scientist, and for having his own beliefs, I don't think Creationism is a viable model.

I also don't think there is an inherent naturalistic/secularist goal in public schools to indoctrinate children.

If anything, children being forced to go to church at a young age, when they are susceptible to be impressed upon, is a more realistic example of indoctrination.

Of course, you can say the same about children in science classes, but at least that information, as Nye said, can be used to make predictions - which highlights the difference.

[Davros of Skaro]

I took the time to watch the video earlier.

While I can respect Mr. Ham for being a scientist, and for having his own beliefs, I don't think Creationism is a viable model.

I also don't think there is an inherent naturalistic/secularist goal in public schools to indoctrinate children.

If anything, children being forced to go to church at a young age, when they are susceptible to be impressed upon, is a more realistic example of indoctrination.

Of course, you can say the same about children in science classes, but at least that information, as Nye said, can be used to make predictions - which highlights the difference.

Do you think the whole world would be better off if everyone believed the Bible as absolute truth, and followed the guidence of an elite group of people who are in direct communication of the author of said Bible?

[Davros of Skaro]

WOW!

This is NOT What Evolution Looks Like [media=]

[Davros of Skaro]

Blame the vikings/norse too... They told people norwhale tusks were "unicorn" tusks. Good old marketing schemes.

[media=]

[/media]

I think some Cephalopod fossils gave rise to the mythology too?

Edited February 6, 2014 by davros of skaro

[Drayno]

Do you think the whole world would be better off if everyone believed the Bible as absolute truth, and followed the guidence of an elite group of people who are in direct communication of the author of said Bible?

I think that in a sense, the world would be better - but if every single person believed the Bible as an absolute truth, it would be a world of dreams.

Morals are inherent in human nature. Since we're cognitive organisms, capable of sentience and deduction, we perceive, on an emotional scale, the repercussions our actions have.

Thus, we are able to determine, on a rudimentary level, what is 'morally correct'. Even if we have no tangible way of expressing it.

The world, on a rudimentary level, will always consist of people who are aware of the default 'moral state' of humanity.

In other words - without the Bible, humans still know how to do 'right' or 'wrong'.

Although I don't necessarily believe black and white terms are good to use, because there is the entire spectrum of human emotion to take into consideration.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Drayno

[Arbenol]

After the debate, several creationists were asked to write a message / question for the 'science' side of the argument:

http://www.buzzfeed....eve-in-evolutio

These are a few of my favourites.