Frank Merton Posted January 30, 2014 #126 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Protesters in a country like the States strike me as self-centered losers who like to think they are doing something when what they are doing actually works against whatever cause (and sometimes that's hard to figure out) they are about. Sometimes a protest can upset a government, especially if the military and police are with them, but look at the massive protests that tore at Brazil and nothing came of it. I think for protests to work you need a government out of touch with the people, no other route to change (such as elections) and a police and military well aware of what is going on and not drawn from the peasantry or some such. In Thailand it is looking a democratically elected government popular with the people is about to be protested out of office because of the military's looking the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scowl Posted January 30, 2014 #127 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Depends on the area one lives in, though...and whether or not one can leave the area for better work opportunities, because of a personal obligation to his/her parents or one might lose his/her inheritance to the state. You are making free choices that will affect your financial status. For 90% of Americans in the labor market there is no reason they can't move to seek employment. This statistic shocks Europeans: Americans move on average every six years! I'm describing me, BTW. College education, low job opportunity area, can't leave the area, so I make it work by doing services with the skills I have for people I know. Funny thing though, was declared to be right at the poverty level line in income according to the so-called economic experts. <--(Lol, yeah right...whatever, kiss my ass.) You "can't leave the area"? Are you on parole or something? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scowl Posted January 30, 2014 #128 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Hehe, move where the food is. I miss Sam. The other classic Sam Kinison joke is about why pictures of starving children made him so mad. "I know the photographer could have put down his $2,000 camera and given the kid part of his sandwich." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunn Posted January 30, 2014 #129 Share Posted January 30, 2014 You are making free choices that will affect your financial status. For 90% of Americans in the labor market there is no reason they can't move to seek employment. This statistic shocks Europeans: Americans move on average every six years! You "can't leave the area"? Are you on parole or something? Naw, slick! It's nothing like that. Just gotta stick around for a while and see things through, if I want to keep all my inheritance for me and my daughter in the future. It's complicated...it involves nursing homes, crippled parents who can't do some things by themselves anymore and keeping them away from state funded nursing homes that try to collect their bills through our inheritance. Anyway, without going into anymore detail about the whole thing, which is really none of your business BTW, let's just say it's all too much inheritance to let go to the state, if my parents were to end up in a nursing home funded by the state. Besides, I'm doing okay, right where I'm at. I get by, running my own little business. I got customers now, who I like working for and rather work for them anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted January 31, 2014 #130 Share Posted January 31, 2014 You are making free choices that will affect your financial status. For 90% of Americans in the labor market there is no reason they can't move to seek employment. This statistic shocks Europeans: Americans move on average every six years! Yeah, it used to be that people could jump a train or greyhound bus and go find work elsewhere. Seems like the poor have a harder time moving around these days. Every place you go, you need a reason you left your former job or former home, and explainations for holes in your job and housing history. "You were Homeless? Oh my, thank you anyway..." The other classic Sam Kinison joke is about why pictures of starving children made him so mad. "I know the photographer could have put down his $2,000 camera and given the kid part of his sandwich." That is how I feel when I see George Clooney and such on TV asking for people to support just one child in Africa. I think to myself, can't George Clooney himself support like 25 villages of children? But you don't hear about that happening it seems... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutemi Posted January 31, 2014 #131 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Very well, I can love those poor children and yet understand that bad things are going to happen to them due to the actions of people who do Not love them. Love and Empathy are not about being stupid. How many countries have we attacked? Plenty, and almost always to Help people. OMG, we attacked Iraq to save Kuwait!! You filthy SOBs! True enough, there are several combat actions that were uncalled for and few argue against that. As to the policeman spraying that Occupy protester, I believe that a handful of officers nationwide acting out is not a Police State. I do believe he was FIRED for his actions. How does that reflect a Police State, if we fire those acting with force for the State? So do you agree or disagree that these 85 people need to be pulled down Regardless of how they got their money and how they spend it?? Regardless.... Or are they just like anyone else in that if they are compassionate they are forgiven? The war of G.Bush senior shouldn’t be confused with the war of G.Bush junior they were different wars weren’t they, don’t twist history just to try to win an argument. The back ground is that Saddam Hussain was the West’s friend while he was at war with Iran so we helped him and so helped create the problem in the first place and don’t forget the USA in particular (but not alone) being involved in the bringing to power of the Shah of Iran by underhand moves and many in Iran didn’t like it and didn’t forget who brought it about. I don’t want anyone pulling down, there are not just 2 alternatives here although you don’t hear much about the alternatives in our media, i.e. Microsoft a some years back was deemed too powerful and was forced to reorganise and it is still a company making profit. If you look at the proposed Robin hood tax video in post 64 of this thread you will see this tax would be only 0.05 %!!!! and would deliver billions of dollars, would that 0.05 % tax bankrupt these billionaires? What has made us successful as a species is adaptability where is it now. You see I feel for children, I feel for ordinary people who just want to live their lives and bring up their children. I know helping the starving children of this world is not a simple problem in respect of a long term solution, but first things first, stop them dying, then let’s try on a world wide scale to see if we can sort out a better way, no doubt it will be a very difficult thing to do, going to Mars is going to be very difficult people will probably die in the attempt, it’s a long way back if there are problems with either hardware or perhaps health, but we will go because we want to. I am talking about ‘Intention’ about what we would like to happen. The money we willingly spend on war, would many times over sort the problem and how much did the Bankers bail out cost us? And how many of those 85 received money from us in this bank bail out? So when we want to, we always find the money, so I know we can do it. Now I know that a Utopia of a no problems at all is very improbable but we can do a lot better that’s all I am saying. My basic point could be looked at from a ‘Game theory’ perspective, here is a short video by Richard Dawkins (yes the anti religion guy), I saw this program many years ago (just look at the computers and floppy discs! Do you remember them) and realized he was right and we should try his preferred theory. Richard Dawkins Tit for Tat (there is a longer u tube version as well if you’re interested) We have all kinds of countries getting hold of nuclear, chemical and Biological weapons do we just keep going along this same path? Where is our wonderful gift of adaptability? We can have a system very much like we have now but without greed and rapacious self interest, yes we, can but do we even have the Intention? If we did we could do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scowl Posted January 31, 2014 #132 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Naw, slick! It's nothing like that. Just gotta stick around for a while and see things through, if I want to keep all my inheritance for me and my daughter in the future. It's complicated...it involves nursing homes, crippled parents who can't do some things by themselves anymore and keeping them away from state funded nursing homes that try to collect their bills through our inheritance. Your situation is an exception. There are not millions of people in the country who can't move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scowl Posted January 31, 2014 #133 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Yeah, it used to be that people could jump a train or greyhound bus and go find work elsewhere. Seems like the poor have a harder time moving around these days. Greyhound is still running. Poor people still have cars. Americans are still moving every six years on average. The change I've seen is that there are far fewer jobs for unskilled laborers. Decades ago cities had expanding economies and factories were opening in them. Anyone moving there was likely to find a job. Now no one is opening factories and most jobs are for people with skills and degrees. You can't just move there and expect to find a good job although some college graduates continue to do this. This still happens in construction. Remember when Portland had the housing boom in the 90's? There was a huge influx of construction workers into our area. Now they've moved on. That's how their lives are. Every place you go, you need a reason you left your former job or former home, and explainations for holes in your job and housing history. "You were Homeless? Oh my, thank you anyway..." What? We hired someone who had been unemployed for almost a year! We don't know if he was homeless but we can't ask a question like that since it would open us to claims of unfair discrimination. We only needed to know if he had been in jail and he had not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunn Posted January 31, 2014 #134 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Your situation is an exception. There are not millions of people in the country who can't move. Not really. I could still move if I wanted too. But I'm hesitate to take the gamble, because I might lose most of everything my family worked for over the years. I'm just not willing to make the sacrifice...yet. Some might even say it would be a stupid move on my part, if I did leave it all behind. (sorry, couldn't resist the pun) Edited January 31, 2014 by Purifier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted February 1, 2014 #135 Share Posted February 1, 2014 The war of G.Bush senior shouldn’t be confused with the war of G.Bush junior they were different wars weren’t they, don’t twist history just to try to win an argument. Twist History? What are you talking about. Did not Iraq invade Kuwait? The back ground is that Saddam Hussain was the West’s friend while he was at war with Iran so we helped him and so helped create the problem in the first place and don’t forget the USA in particular (but not alone) being involved in the bringing to power of the Shah of Iran by underhand moves and many in Iran didn’t like it and didn’t forget who brought it about. So we supported Saddam and then went to war, so what? Haven't we done that with many nations? Germany was very good with the US before WWI and then was also good with the US before WW2. Just as we were allies with Stalin till the end of WW2 and the Soviets took Eastern Europe. So befriending another nation must be for eternity now? There can never be a changing of alliances? I don’t want anyone pulling down, there are not just 2 alternatives here although you don’t hear much about the alternatives in our media, i.e. Microsoft a some years back was deemed too powerful and was forced to reorganise and it is still a company making profit. If you look at the proposed Robin hood tax video in post 64 of this thread you will see this tax would be only 0.05 %!!!! and would deliver billions of dollars, would that 0.05 % tax bankrupt these billionaires? No it would not destroy the billionares. But then it really wouldn't help the whole lower 50% now would it? I'm not saying not to do so, I'd vote for a marginal tax raise on the rich. I just think the idea of pulling down the rich, and please don't argue that no one wants to do just that, is a worthless war. What has made us successful as a species is adaptability where is it now. You see I feel for children, I feel for ordinary people who just want to live their lives and bring up their children. I know helping the starving children of this world is not a simple problem in respect of a long term solution, but first things first, stop them dying, then let’s try on a world wide scale to see if we can sort out a better way, no doubt it will be a very difficult thing to do, going to Mars is going to be very difficult people will probably die in the attempt, it’s a long way back if there are problems with either hardware or perhaps health, but we will go because we want to. I am talking about ‘Intention’ about what we would like to happen. The money we willingly spend on war, would many times over sort the problem and how much did the Bankers bail out cost us? And how many of those 85 received money from us in this bank bail out? So when we want to, we always find the money, so I know we can do it. Now I know that a Utopia of a no problems at all is very improbable but we can do a lot better that’s all I am saying. My basic point could be looked at from a ‘Game theory’ perspective, here is a short video by Richard Dawkins (yes the anti religion guy), I saw this program many years ago (just look at the computers and floppy discs! Do you remember them) and realized he was right and we should try his preferred theory. I can totally agree that we, the human race, could do a lot better to support the less fortunate and starving. But, what you would like to see would require a much stonger world government then the UN. Such a government would need to control the budget of all nations, and would handle international disputes before militarys got involved. But, given the current state of human mentality on a worldwide scale, I don't see that happening within this century. Thus we have to realize the limitations and set our expectations appropriately. It is alright to dream to the stars, but be aware of the beasts stalking the night around you also. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scowl Posted February 3, 2014 #136 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Not really. I could still move if I wanted too. But I'm hesitate to take the gamble, because I might lose most of everything my family worked for over the years. I'm just not willing to make the sacrifice...yet. Some might even say it would be a stupid move on my part, if I did leave it all behind. (sorry, couldn't resist the pun) Your situation is an exception. Millions of Americans move every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanieAndMe Posted February 14, 2014 #137 Share Posted February 14, 2014 http://billmoyers.com/episode/full-show-inequality-for-all/ There is a video on Bill Moyers show featuring Robert Reich...I do not agree with all of his talk, but, he is right about wages being stagnant for over 35+ years. Another interesting point he made is whenever there is rampant income inequality, politics becomes more polarized. It is interesting website with transcript along with a video. Probably not THE answer to ALL problems but it poses part of problem as percieved by the specialized experience of this guy. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutemi Posted February 17, 2014 #138 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I shall put this as clearly as I can, the ‘Gulf war’ was in 1990, after the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq. The ‘Iraq war’ was in 2003 and was supposed to be about weapons of mass destruction, NOT because Iraq invaded Kuwait. You do remember the imaginary ‘WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION’ don’t you? Are you a creationist who because the Earth is only 5000 yrs old, has had to squeeze history together to fit in to the time frame and so you think that 2 wars well over 10 yrs apart are the same war? It’s pointless arguing with you about the need for equality, you just don’t get it. For you there are only 2 alternatives I don’t agree with either, both of them are extremes, this is the problem, most people have a very limited perspective. As to the ‘beasts stalking the night’, So we can’t change because of Fear, I want change because of Fear, Nuclear, Chemical and Biological weapons are being made all over the world right now, disease resistance to Antibiotic drugs and Ecological damage, that’s what we should fear. Necessity is the mother of invention, we need change now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted February 17, 2014 #139 Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) I shall put this as clearly as I can, the ‘Gulf war’ was in 1990, after the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq. The ‘Iraq war’ was in 2003 and was supposed to be about weapons of mass destruction, NOT because Iraq invaded Kuwait. You do remember the imaginary ‘WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION’ don’t you? Are you a creationist who because the Earth is only 5000 yrs old, has had to squeeze history together to fit in to the time frame and so you think that 2 wars well over 10 yrs apart are the same war? Where was I talking about Gulf War 2? Go back and read my post again. My first reference was to Gulf War 1, obviously, because I was talking about Kuwait. Here is the post... How many countries have we attacked? Plenty, and almost always to Help people. OMG, we attacked Iraq to save Kuwait!! You filthy SOBs! True enough, there are several combat actions that were uncalled for and few argue against that. SEE! Point out where I said Iraq War, or Gulf War? I'm waiting on your apology.... It’s pointless arguing with you about the need for equality, you just don’t get it. For you there are only 2 alternatives I don’t agree with either, both of them are extremes, this is the problem, most people have a very limited perspective. As to the ‘beasts stalking the night’, So we can’t change because of Fear, I want change because of Fear, Nuclear, Chemical and Biological weapons are being made all over the world right now, disease resistance to Antibiotic drugs and Ecological damage, that’s what we should fear. Necessity is the mother of invention, we need change now. I just don't believe that poverty and wealth inequality have that much to do with each other. They are not directly related. You could kill every single person with more then 100 million dollars of value worldwide, and help not a single person living under the poverty line. Also you could give every person on Earth enough money to raise them above the current poverty line, and when the economy balances itself, they would once again be living below the New poverty line. I already agreed that both are problems, but both need to be addressed seperately. Tax the Rich.... I already agreed to that. Help the Poor.... I already agreed to that. But, you are not happy because I don't agree with your Mythos you've been sold about how the rich are crippling the poor. Or maybe you're angry because I believe that those on Government Aid should have to WORK for it? Edited February 17, 2014 by DieChecker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomelis Posted February 21, 2014 #140 Share Posted February 21, 2014 To eliminate poverty technology needs to reach the point where there is enough surplus produced to feed and house and so on the significant portion of the population who have various problems -- intellectual, health, attitude, and so on -- without being judgmental about them. We may actually be at that point now if we didn't waste so much money on grandiose mansions and militaries and so on. I think this is impossible. There are to many people on the Earth and there's not enough resources to enlimitate povrty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutemi Posted March 5, 2014 #141 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Where was I talking about Gulf War 2? Go back and read my post again. My first reference was to Gulf War 1, obviously, because I was talking about Kuwait. Here is the post... SEE! Point out where I said Iraq War, or Gulf War? I'm waiting on your apology.... I just don't believe that poverty and wealth inequality have that much to do with each other. They are not directly related. You could kill every single person with more then 100 million dollars of value worldwide, and help not a single person living under the poverty line. Also you could give every person on Earth enough money to raise them above the current poverty line, and when the economy balances itself, they would once again be living below the New poverty line. I already agreed that both are problems, but both need to be addressed seperately. Tax the Rich.... I already agreed to that. Help the Poor.... I already agreed to that. But, you are not happy because I don't agree with your Mythos you've been sold about how the rich are crippling the poor. Or maybe you're angry because I believe that those on Government Aid should have to WORK for it? I have only just seen your post this morning, So I’ll try and clear this up, in my post 110 to you I wrote, “Empathy is not a ‘thing’ it’s a feeling based on Love. The really poor Children in third world countries don’t have furniture with a draw, to get a gun from, let alone afford a gun! …….How about that small boy in Iraq who had his arms and Legs blown off!.”..... So in my post to which you replied I was posting about the Iraq war. The reason I wrote about that boy was because of the unreasoned war for Oil also known for the supposed reason of removing fictional ‘weapons of mass destruction’. In your reply post 123, you even quoted this in which you wrote, ‘OMG, we attacked Iraq to save Kuwait!!’ If you didn’t mean to reply about the war in which that poor child had his arms and legs were blown off you should have made it clearer, I of course was replying in context of my post. I am not the sort who likes to upset anyone but I will always defend my position, so I am sorry for your feelings as it seems it was just a mix up, which I didn’t think it was or I wouldn’t have replied as I did. Lastly, I don’t believe in pulling down the rich, I don’t want 100 of the richest killed just equality for all, as I said there are not just 2 alternatives. If you want people to work, pay them a decent living wage i.e. how much does the US government give in aid to ‘full time workers’ at Wall Mart? and how much does this company make in profit? Which you as a tax payer are subsidising. Anyway I can see we are not going to agree on this but I just wanted to put more position as clearly as I could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryptid_Control Posted March 5, 2014 #142 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Majority of that poor people just 'enjoy' being lazy, using drugs, alcohol... Hardly lifted anything heavier then a spoon in their life. Compare that to people who sacrifice many things and pleasures just to earn money and make their business grow... At least in my area its like this, who works hard he have a decent life no matter if country is in deep $%&. Insinuating that drugs and alcohol aren't rampant among the wealthy... Wall street is literally a giant coke den Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysabel81 Posted May 7, 2014 #143 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Is it just me? Why is this thread in this forum? I see nothing modern mysteryish, 'new agey' or prophetical about it. He is right duscussing about poverty and inequality is an unending debate and should not be tackeled in thid kind of forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted May 7, 2014 #144 Share Posted May 7, 2014 The desire to get rich way beyond what one could possibly use or need seems a strong motivator for a lot of people, so societies may as well accept this and make what use they can of it while keeping it under control. That means let them get rich, but have rules and reasonable taxes, especially as wealth is passed from generation to generation, and encourage their philanthropy, although I don't see where inflating the value of art so it can be donated for a tax deduction does anyone much good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted May 7, 2014 #145 Share Posted May 7, 2014 He is right duscussing about poverty and inequality is an unending debate and should not be tackeled in thid kind of forum. Why not? Should it only be discussed in scholarly essays? Or political debates? Or dinnertime conversations? Get real. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysabel81 Posted May 7, 2014 #146 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Why not? Should it only be discussed in scholarly essays? Or political debates? Or dinnertime conversations? Get real.first and foremost this forum is about mysteries in the modern age and prophecies.theres nothing mysterious about poverty nor inequality.your right its the real thing and it should be discussed in a different forumn.i would luv to discuss this to you esp coming from a third world country i know this things.but not here not now. Right now i want to be entertained by people who have creative minds and be informed of things that are unnatural or out of this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysabel81 Posted May 7, 2014 #147 Share Posted May 7, 2014 first and foremost this forum is about mysteries in the modern age and prophecies.theres nothing mysterious about poverty nor inequality.your right its the real thing and it should be discussed in a different forumn.i would luv to discuss this to you esp coming from a third world country i know this things.but not here not now. Right now i want to be entertained by people who have creative minds and be informed of things that are unnatural or out of this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted May 7, 2014 #148 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Sections about things other than the oolala are provided. If a particular subject doesn't interest you, you don't follow it. Simple. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now