Dr. Steven Greer... 'scammer' or hero?

[bee]

1 minute ago, RAyMO said:

Am I missing something?

 

nah - just business as usual in the UFO and ET Phenomenon Forum  

 

[Space Commander Travis]

2 hours ago, bee said:

 

lol -- it would almost be worth having a false alien attack to imagine some of the more vocal sceptics 
whirling round on the spot going ... Greer's wrong... they're real aliens... eerrrr .... no there's no evidence
of aliens coming to earth.... so Greer must be right...errrr no Greer can't be right.... no they must be real
aliens... no they can't be...because Greer is a scammer.... so they must be be be....aaahhhhhhh my head hurts..
(sound of exploding heads...)

That almost makes sense to me. Should I be worried?  

[bee]

2 minutes ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

That almost makes sense to me. Should I be worried?  

[stereologist]

Here is my favorite alien report of all time.

http://www.lockhaven.edu/~dsimanek/alien.htm

Quote

A SPACE ALIEN RAPED MY ELECTRIC BROOM

This is one story I believe.

Quote

"If he wants to mate with tools and appliances he ought to go to a hardware store."

 

[tmcom]

Considering that the US's stance on UFO's has gone from calling people stupid in the 50's to trying to scare the general population with the scariest propaganda they can configure up, he is up against fear and fanatical reluctance to accept the possibility.

I certainly have respect for him, and his associates, some who have had death threats and attempts made against them, initially, which means that the FBI take it very seriously.

Some no matter how good the evidence is, will always find some way to dismiss it, At least til mass media finally tells the world the truth, (which it will in the near future) Stephen has also said this, but the old world, with the US, throwing petrol on top, will cling onto the "UFO's don't exist", til there is no way to bury or distort the big announcement.

The skeptics can keep going and receive a huge shock, when the truth comes out, or put fear and stupidity aside and look into this with an open mind.

[Dejarma]

8 minutes ago, tmcom said:

I certainly have respect for him, and his associates, some who have had death threats and attempts made against them, initially, which means that the FBI take it very seriously.

Where's the proof of these death threats? What you said suggests the FBI were responsible... Are the FBI that stupid to let them know who's threatening them?

Death Threats!?!? What a loada crap!== you believe anything you're told, don't ya!!!

Well these people are still alive, spilling the beans so the threats were 'pointless' OR 'BS'.. What one do you think it is?

[stereologist]

35 minutes ago, tmcom said:

Considering that the US's stance on UFO's has gone from calling people stupid in the 50's to trying to scare the general population with the scariest propaganda they can configure up, he is up against fear and fanatical reluctance to accept the possibility.

I certainly have respect for him, and his associates, some who have had death threats and attempts made against them, initially, which means that the FBI take it very seriously.

Some no matter how good the evidence is, will always find some way to dismiss it, At least til mass media finally tells the world the truth, (which it will in the near future) Stephen has also said this, but the old world, with the US, throwing petrol on top, will cling onto the "UFO's don't exist", til there is no way to bury or distort the big announcement.

The skeptics can keep going and receive a huge shock, when the truth comes out, or put fear and stupidity aside and look into this with an open mind.

I find your historical description to be incorrect. Even if it were even somewhat correct it would not matter as to whether or not Greer is a scammer. What matters is what Greer does. His actions are the issue, not some unsupported stories about death threats and the rest of the baloney.

What is the truth. You suggest there is good evidence. Why don't you post some good evidence? You posted your whimsical opinion that people simply won't believe no matter what. Frankly, we all know that is a failed idea. Yet, people toss it out instead of posting evidence. I believe that is just a lame excuse used by those that really know their evidence is bad. It is an excuse used to avoid posting actual evidence.

Do you know what an open mind is? It isn't accepting ideas with evidence. Some people think they are open minded because they accept any idea no matter how ridiculous. An open mind means willing to examine an idea. Doesn't mean you have to accept the idea. Doesn't mean that bad ideas can be filtered out.

Skeptics do look at this with an open mind. They examine the evidence and come up with a decision. It is stupid to accept when the evidence is against the idea. It is gullible to accept without evidence. It is scoffing to reject without looking at the evidence.

[tmcom]

10 hours ago, Dejarma said:

Where's the proof of these death threats? What you said suggests the FBI were responsible... Are the FBI that stupid to let them know who's threatening them?

Death Threats!?!? What a loada crap!== you believe anything you're told, don't ya!!!

Well these people are still alive, spilling the beans so the threats were 'pointless' OR 'BS'.. What one do you think it is?

I heard it from one of his videos, and sure he could be making it up, but going to a meeting with relatively high end politician with a side arm, is overkill if not.

If he is scamming people he is doing an extremely good job at it, so much so, that it is unlikely.

And l would suggest you go and take a tranquilizer if you want further discussions.

9 hours ago, stereologist said:

I find your historical description to be incorrect. Even if it were even somewhat correct it would not matter as to whether or not Greer is a scammer. What matters is what Greer does. His actions are the issue, not some unsupported stories about death threats and the rest of the baloney.

What is the truth. You suggest there is good evidence. Why don't you post some good evidence? You posted your whimsical opinion that people simply won't believe no matter what. Frankly, we all know that is a failed idea. Yet, people toss it out instead of posting evidence. I believe that is just a lame excuse used by those that really know their evidence is bad. It is an excuse used to avoid posting actual evidence.

Do you know what an open mind is? It isn't accepting ideas with evidence. Some people think they are open minded because they accept any idea no matter how ridiculous. An open mind means willing to examine an idea. Doesn't mean you have to accept the idea. Doesn't mean that bad ideas can be filtered out.

Skeptics do look at this with an open mind. They examine the evidence and come up with a decision. It is stupid to accept when the evidence is against the idea. It is gullible to accept without evidence. It is scoffing to reject without looking at the evidence.

Course they do, and when the evidence becomes too good, then, well l cannot comment on that, since that is moving into an area that l am not a professional at.

 

There is a big difference between someone who is open minded and looking at All evidence, then believing in something based on that evidence...

And someone who claims to be open minded, then dismisses said evidence, since they conveniently forget some evidence, ignore other evidence, and bend the law of physics so it fits in with their warm and confy world view!

 

I believe in where the evidence leads, and put fear aside, since if l didn't l would need to consider professional help!

Edited January 13, 2018 by tmcom
Youtube video screenshots, and a video showing images l have used, is more than enough verification, for the open minded.

[Dejarma]

12 hours ago, tmcom said:

The skeptics can keep going and receive a huge shock, when the truth comes out,

As I'm sure you've worked out= I'm a skeptic...

Do you feel this would be bad news to someone like me? Just out of interest.............

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

12 hours ago, tmcom said:

 

The skeptics can keep going and receive a huge shock, when the truth comes out, or put fear and stupidity aside and look into this with an open mind.

An open mind?

AN OPEN MIND?!

dear god man, have you never been party to a discussion about extraterrestial life? There are the people who say “I remain to be convinced” and there are the people who believe nothing the government says and everything anyone who says they’ve got the inside track to the truth says. 

Which side is the one with the open mind?

[stereologist]

4 hours ago, tmcom said:

I heard it from one of his videos, and sure he could be making it up, but going to a meeting with relatively high end politician with a side arm, is overkill if not.

If he is scamming people he is doing an extremely good job at it, so much so, that it is unlikely.

And l would suggest you go and take a tranquilizer if you want further discussions.

Course they do, and when the evidence becomes too good, then, well l cannot comment on that, since that is moving into an area that l am not a professional at.

There is a big difference between someone who is open minded and looking at All evidence, then believing in something based on that evidence...

And someone who claims to be open minded, then dismisses said evidence, since they conveniently forget some evidence, ignore other evidence, and bend the law of physics so it fits in with their warm and confy world view!

 

I believe in where the evidence leads, and put fear aside, since if l didn't l would need to consider professional help!

Scammers are usually pretty good at it or they end up looking for some other crooked business to get into. Anything Greer says has to be checked and rechecked. Sounds like you are taking it hook, line, and sinker. Consider that Greer runs the disclosure project yet makes his clients sign an NDA. That is an agreement not to be open and disclose.

Not sure I  understand your ramblings here about physics. Take Greer. He is offering some ridiculous claims about a hand held device that can power a small city. That's rejecting physics outright. Is that the sort of person you think is trustable - someone that tells lies about physics?

I don't believe you about evidence. You trust Greer which is a clear sign that you disregard the evidence.

[tmcom]

4 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

An open mind?

AN OPEN MIND?!

dear god man, have you never been party to a discussion about extraterrestial life? There are the people who say “I remain to be convinced” and there are the people who believe nothing the government says and everything anyone who says they’ve got the inside track to the truth says. 

Which side is the one with the open mind?

True, l watch one of his videos and am entertained by some of the stuff he mentions, (which cannot be verified at face value) and take some of his other remarks more seriously, (like it is inevitable that all out contact will occur in our lifetimes).

But do l watch one of his videos and blindly believe in everything he says, of course not!

But thankyou for asking a question in a civilized manner.

Edited January 13, 2018 by tmcom
Distance does not change how something moves or looks!

[stereologist]

There has been a promise for decades of disclosure. It was very popular a decade ago coming up to the non-event of 2012. There are always promises and frankly it is a carrot on a stick used by scammers such as Greer to tantalize believers.

Here are some typical promises from 2009.

http://goldenageofgaia.com/disclosure-archives/the-history-of-recent-ufo-disclosure-plans/

Quote

Hatonn states that “within a couple of months, at the outside,” the Earth-awakening program will be televised.

That differs from SaLuSa’s stated date of the end of this calendar year by around two weeks at the latest.

Hatonn describes himself as “an intergalactic fleet commander and director of multidimensional communication.” I’ll let him and Matthew give the latest information and append to that the information that we already have.

It's pretty typical falderal.

Another person pretending disclosure is coming in 2016.

Quote

Steve Bassett, the only registered lobbyist on the UFO issue in the US, runs the Paradign Research Group (PRG) which today claimed in a statement to have been contacted by a Government whistleblower, who said the alien disclosure was on the cards.

A statement by PRG said: "Two days after the election defeat of Secretary Hillary Clinton Paradigm Research Group received a message from a source within the military/intelligence community known to PRG. 

"The messaged paraphrased is this:

"Persons who are directly involved in the management of the extraterrestrial issues want disclosure to take place under President Obama and are ready to work with the SecDef (Secretary of Defence) if approached."

 

Usually pretenders are smarter than this group that gave an actual date. This is from 2015.

http://www.ufointernationalproject.com/latest-news/large-grey-aliens-require-full-disclosure-2015/

Quote

Apparently a former treaty was made with the Large Grey Aliens which requires FULL disclosure by 2016.

In an article titled “Secret Space War VIII: Alien Quantum Computing and the End of Secrecy?” on the Veterans Today website the author Dr. James Preston refers to a treaty that may have been created between the large Grey alien race and the Secret Shadow Government. The article describes several alleged treaties between several different alien races and various nations here on earth.

These imminent disclosure stories get replaced on a regular basis. Although we know they go back to the early 1990s

[Area201]

On 1/11/2018 at 1:09 PM, bee said:

 

lol -- it would almost be worth having a false alien attack to imagine some of the more vocal sceptics 
whirling round on the spot going ... Greer's wrong... they're real aliens... eerrrr .... no there's no evidence
of aliens coming to earth.... so Greer must be right...errrr no Greer can't be right.... no they must be real
aliens... no they can't be...because Greer is a scammer.... so they must be be be....aaahhhhhhh my head hurts..
(sound of exploding heads...)

LOL  cognitive dissonance explosion 

[GlitterRose]

I don't know a whole lot about Greer, but I think it's possibly a false dichotomy.

He doesn't have to be either a scammer or a hero.

He might just be a guy who believes in UFOs, and has tried to find out about them. 

[stereologist]

Greer has pulled too many scams as listed in this thread to be considered anything other than a scammer.  That is his bread and butter. He gets the gullible to open their wallets up to his scams. Make up a few stories for the gullible to relish and then collect the proceeds. He might have started with a belief in UFOs.  But he has gone to scamming to fill his coffers.

[Area201]

On 1/13/2018 at 8:24 AM, stereologist said:

These imminent disclosure stories get replaced on a regular basis. Although we know they go back to the early 1990s

Not everyone follows this foolish imminent approach.

"The secret keepers are gradually disclosing this information, via an acclimatization process, based on advice given by military think tanks that have looked at the issue." - Grant Cameron 

On 1/13/2018 at 1:45 AM, stereologist said:

Not sure I  understand your ramblings here about physics. Take Greer. He is offering some ridiculous claims about a hand held device that can power a small city. That's rejecting physics outright. Is that the sort of person you think is trustable - someone that tells lies about physics?

Where does he say this? I'm trying to follow your ramblings but don't see any sources to claim. 

"To date, no inventor, corporation, research team or university has been able to surmount these obstacles"  .."During Phase I of the project, we will NOT be pursuing electromagneto-gravitic (EMG) or gravity control systems as these pose a legitimate military and national security risk at this time" siriusdisclosure.com 

He says some groups have had some promising or working device but have failed. In one case a group out bid his group for an alleged such device. They were killed, according to his report (no other details provided). Another former CIA director was in possession of such a device or planning to take it public, he was found drifting down the river dead soon after.

But I've yet to hear Greer has such a hand held device. Instead heard him say he has blueprints in his possession, maybe EMG based, idk the details.  "The zero-sum game of secrecy and patents that dominate most technology start-up efforts is the wrong approach, and they have failed spectacularly in the past when ZPE is involved. We must not repeat those errors"

If UFOs are not jet powered, how did they get here? Now that we know UFOs not of this world are a confirmed reality it's a matter of figuring out their power source and propulsion system.

Edited January 15, 2018 by Area201

[stereologist]

3 minutes ago, Area201 said:

Not everyone follows this foolish imminent approach.

"The secret keepers are gradually disclosing this information, via an acclimatization process, based on advice given by military think tanks that have looked at the issue." - Grant Cameron 

Where does he say this? I'm trying to follow your ramblings but don't see any sources to claims. 

"To date, no inventor, corporation, research team or university has been able to surmount these obstacles"  .."During Phase I of the project, we will NOT be pursuing electromagneto-gravitic (EMG) or gravity control systems as these pose a legitimate military and national security risk at this time" siriusdisclosure.com 

He says some groups have had some promising or working device but have failed. In one case a group out bid his group for an alleged such device. They were killed, according to his report (no other details provided). Another former CIA director was in possession of such a device, he was found drifting down the river dead soon after.

But I've yet to hear Greer has such a hand held device. Instead heard him say he has blueprints in his possession, maybe EMG based, idk the details.  "The zero-sum game of secrecy and patents that dominate most technology start-up efforts is the wrong approach, and they have failed spectacularly in the past when ZPE is involved. We must not repeat those errors"

If UFOs are not jet powered, how did they get here? Now that we know UFOs not of this world are a confirmed reality it's a matter of figuring out their power source and propulsion system.

There you with the stupid excuse that people need to be slowly introduced to the idea of aliens. It is a lame and brainless excuse used to pretend that there is a reason for disclosure not happening. Only the foolish would believe such a lame idea. Disclosure is promised and does not happen year after year after year. Why? Because it is a lie. The acclimatization excuse has been used for more than disclosure. It was used for 2012 and the imminent destruction by phantom planets and other failures sold to the gullible.

http://www.ufowatchdog.com/steven_greer.htm

Quote

Not to be outdone, Greer also claims he has developed a 'zero point' energy device that can be held in one hand and is capable of powering small cities.

You will notice that the link provided is gone as is Greer's project.  The following link place shows it is a dead link.

https://peswiki.com/directory:advanced-energy-research-organization-llc-aero-

Here is another place showing it is a dead link

http://zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2527

And here we go with comments on Greer's offer

https://pesn.com/archive/2007/11/02/9500455_AERO_Award/index.html

There are all sorts of promises on these sites but no results. It's a typical scammer move.

[stereologist]

48 minutes ago, Area201 said:

If UFOs are not jet powered, how did they get here? Now that we know UFOs not of this world are a confirmed reality it's a matter of figuring out their power source and propulsion system.

Where is this a confirmed reality? LOL

There is nothing confirmed at all. Maybe you need to ask Bob Lazr. You know the person you reference that is called a phony by Friedman.

Edited January 15, 2018 by stereologist

[Area201]

1 hour ago, stereologist said:

Where is this a confirmed reality? LOL

There is nothing confirmed at all. Maybe you need to ask Bob Lazr. You know the person you reference that is called a phony by Friedman.

Bolding time. 

Pentagon confirm investigation of UFOs. How they can be investigating something tracked by radar/flir/witnesses that does not exist? 

"With MS degrees from MIT and Caltech? Caltech would not have accepted him for an MS program, if he already had one from MIT.. Pierce said he had taken electronics courses in the late 1970s. "

Friedman calls out his MIT/Caltech degree credentials as phony - true.

"His propulsion scheme sounds good (as do many science fiction stories), but makes no real sense especially in view of how difficult it would be to add protons to #115. Gravity wave amplification sounds great but what does it mean?" 

The science part of it is debatable and inconclusive. 

The W-2 form he provides working for U.S. Dept of Naval Intelligence is the real thing. Friedman's opinion is he could not be employed more than a week as a scientist. That doesn't discredit it, only shows how limited it is as proof for working as a scientist as claimed.

To recap.

1. Lazar's school credentials are a fraud.
2. Lazar's account of UFO physics is debatable.
3. Lazar's W2 form is proof of employment with one U.S department DoD branch in some capacity.
4. Friedman admits Lazar, though not a physicst, is a bright guy with technical hands-on skills and worked in some capacity in the field despite not having the credentials.. "I should add that Bob is a bright and talented guy who operated a jet powered car, put on fireworks displays, and apparently helped physics professors working at the Los Alamos Meson accelerator facility." 

Friedman's own admission Bob Lazar is not a complete fraud. There is something off with his claims, namely the school credentials. I concede that, and other researchers have theories why it may be so. 

[stereologist]

39 minutes ago, Area201 said:

Bolding time. 

Pentagon confirm investigation of UFOs. How they can be investigating something tracked by radar/flir/witnesses that does not exist? 

"With MS degrees from MIT and Caltech? Caltech would not have accepted him for an MS program, if he already had one from MIT.. Pierce said he had taken electronics courses in the late 1970s. "

Friedman calls out his MIT/Caltech degree credentials as phony - true.

"His propulsion scheme sounds good (as do many science fiction stories), but makes no real sense especially in view of how difficult it would be to add protons to #115. Gravity wave amplification sounds great but what does it mean?" 

The science part of it is debatable and inconclusive. 

The W-2 form he provides working for U.S. Dept of Naval Intelligence is the real thing. Friedman's opinion is he could not be employed more than a week as a scientist. That doesn't discredit it, only shows how limited it is as proof for working as a scientist as claimed.

To recap.

1. Lazar's school credentials are a fraud.
2. Lazar's account of UFO physics is debatable.
3. Lazar's W2 form is proof of employment with one U.S department DoD branch in some capacity.
4. Friedman admits Lazar, though not a physicst, is a bright guy with technical hands-on skills and worked in some capacity in the field despite not having the credentials.. "I should add that Bob is a bright and talented guy who operated a jet powered car, put on fireworks displays, and apparently helped physics professors working at the Los Alamos Meson accelerator facility." 

Friedman's own admission Bob Lazar is not a complete fraud. There is something off with his claims, namely the school credentials. I concede that, and other researchers have theories why it may be so. 

I guess you confuse a headline with the facts of the case. The Pentagon had a group looking into unidentified objects.

Let's see what you stated:

Quote

Now that we know UFOs not of this world are a confirmed reality it's a matter of figuring out their power source and propulsion system.

Your link in no way addresses the issue of "not of this world".  That's the first fail.

To recap:

1. Lazar lied about his background
2. Lazar's UFO story is a lie. His glaring errors about element 115 point that out
3. His W2 form show he was there for a week probably paid as a janitor
4. Lazar's background is minimal. Fireworks? That's supposed to help with high tech.

Lazar is a fraud. The evidence shows that.

[Vorg]

No matter how respectable, once caught in a hoax, all credibility is challenged, and to me lost.

[stereologist]

In addition to the the issues listed above we also note that:

1. Lazar made up false stories about unusual gravity properties of other elements
2. He tells a great yarn that in 1979 there was a shoot out with aliens that left 44 scientists dead

http://articles.latimes.com/1993-05-06/news/vw-31950_1_ultimate-ufo-seminar/2

http://www.skepticblog.org/2014/01/08/area-51-myth-and-reality/

I believe you have tried to whitewash Friedman's criticisms

http://www.classicufo.com/blog/2013/02/the-bob-lazar-conundrum-is-there-any-truth-to-lazars-claims/

He basically says that the UFO propulsion system is a lie.

Quote

Scientists leave trails. Lazar is NOT a scientist. He couldn’t even answer scientific questions put to him.

I noticed you didn't give this link

http://web.archive.org/web/20061220030435/http://www.serve.com/mahood/lazar/critiq.htm

[Space Commander Travis]

On 1/13/2018 at 4:27 AM, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

An open mind?

AN OPEN MIND?!

dear god man, have you never been party to a discussion about extraterrestial life? There are the people who say “I remain to be convinced” and there are the people who believe nothing the government says and everything anyone who says they’ve got the inside track to the truth says. 

Which side is the one with the open mind?

That's very true; however, those in the first category seem to be such a tiny minority they ought to be given UN protection.  

[Space Commander Travis]

On 1/13/2018 at 1:24 PM, stereologist said:

Hatonn describes himself as “an intergalactic fleet commander and director of multidimensional communication.”

I think that was one of Trump's tweeties wasn't it.