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Stephen Hawking: 'There are no black holes'


Still Waters

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but I'm not so sure that, at his age and infirmities, has not gone semi-delusional.

That is what I've been wondering, if he's actually still bound to reality, or if he's living in a "what if" world.

So basically Black Holes are literally a one way trip to Hell if you were to fall into one. But what about White Holes? Don't they spit you out after a Black Hole sucked you up?

Except no ones ever shown that white holes exist in the real universe.

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Hawkins theories on Black Holes were believed by millions a few years ago,now he states that there are no Black Holes, so having believed what he said, I now think that he's spouting B.S.and therefore will switch him off in future.

He didn't say there were no black holes. Some moronic reporter said that. He just says we have to redefine what the event horizon is.
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So basically Black Holes are literally a one way trip to Hell if you were to fall into one. But what about White Holes? Don't they spit you out after a Black Hole sucked you up?

White hole haven't been proved to exist
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Physics have a big problem with infinity. Gravitation in a black hole could be infinite. Whats impossible to calculate doesnt exist. The only thing that is for sure, is that nobody knows, and that those who claim they know are liars.

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Physics have a big problem with infinity. Gravitation in a black hole could be infinite. Whats impossible to calculate doesnt exist. The only thing that is for sure, is that nobody knows, and that those who claim they know are liars.

I'm not so sure about gravitation being infinite. Density could be infinite but I think gravitation is dependent on mass.
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Physics have a big problem with infinity. Gravitation in a black hole could be infinite. Whats impossible to calculate doesnt exist. The only thing that is for sure, is that nobody knows, and that those who claim they know are liars.

I don't know why it would be impossible to calculate infinity nor why the inability to calculate something would make it impossible to exist. When infinities start showing up in the math this is usually taken as a bad sign, but they can happen: you just look for ways to cancel them out.

On a different post, gravity is mass and distance. Something infinitely dense has infinite gravity because distance is infinitesimal.

I have to say some of the off the cuff remarks about a prominent scientist who has made major contributions reflect either envy or rank stupidity. So he is constantly refining the model; good for him.

In this case besides all that is not the issue; the black whole doesn't have a defined event boundary. I assure you it still exists.

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I tried to post a topic on science in general , in the science portion of the forum but no can do....My intent was not to refer to Stephen hawking only , but to discuss science and it's claims to what is fact , though science is mistaken at times . .Here is or was my post and thoughts : 40 yrs or so later Stephen Hawking now tells that black holes do not exist ? Well then , what else has science been wrong about? I've never accepted everything that science has stated as fact.

Has science been mistaken ?What else has science also been mistaken about ? Could science have been mistaken about it's claims of A.D.D ? because I never believed such a claim to be a fact . I think there's another "cause" for that behavior. ..

I wonder how many years longer will it take for science to finally admit the harmful effects of immunizations as well? Science also says global warming actually exist , though I suspect that too doesn't exist at all .

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Here is or was my post and thoughts : 40 yrs or so later Stephen Hawking now tells that black holes do not exist ? Well then , what else has science been wrong about? I've never accepted everything that science has stated as fact.

BS. Check post #47

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I tried to post a topic on science in general , in the science portion of the forum but no can do....My intent was not to refer to Stephen hawking only , but to discuss science and it's claims to what is fact , though science is mistaken at times . .Here is or was my post and thoughts : 40 yrs or so later Stephen Hawking now tells that black holes do not exist ? Well then , what else has science been wrong about? I've never accepted everything that science has stated as fact.

Has science been mistaken ?What else has science also been mistaken about ? Could science have been mistaken about it's claims of A.D.D ? because I never believed such a claim to be a fact . I think there's another "cause" for that behavior. ..

I wonder how many years longer will it take for science to finally admit the harmful effects of immunizations as well? Science also says global warming actually exist , though I suspect that too doesn't exist at all .

When does science present something other than observed data as fact? I think science gives us theories with varying degrees of certainty but I can't recall a scientist ever claiming his theory as fact with 100% certainty. And again, if you read what Dr. Hawking actually wrote he doesn't say black holes don't exist.
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I tried to post a topic on science in general , in the science portion of the forum but no can do....My intent was not to refer to Stephen hawking only , but to discuss science and it's claims to what is fact , though science is mistaken at times . .Here is or was my post and thoughts : 40 yrs or so later Stephen Hawking now tells that black holes do not exist ? Well then , what else has science been wrong about? I've never accepted everything that science has stated as fact.

Has science been mistaken ?What else has science also been mistaken about ? Could science have been mistaken about it's claims of A.D.D ? because I never believed such a claim to be a fact . I think there's another "cause" for that behavior. ..

I wonder how many years longer will it take for science to finally admit the harmful effects of immunizations as well? Science also says global warming actually exist , though I suspect that too doesn't exist at all .

Geez hold onto your seat then, Gravity might give way in your space-time reference. Don't fly a plane, you might fall out the sky too.

Global warming is a very real thing, now man made global warming? thats the debate

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Sorry, but black holes seem to have been taught as fact in school. The entire concept had always felt empty , that's probably why I never not accepted it as fact in my mind.Not saying there isn't something happening up there when stars fade into something other , because i believe that energy never dies, it transforms.

I guess i just never felt any assurance in any story/theory science puts out regarding this topic.

And so now Hawking says - No , there is no event horizon.Well hello . How many of you ever thought there was one ? I didn't think there was. I don't even think black holes exist. At least not in the manner which they were explained as being so dangerous and all. And besides , who really knows if whether or not light can not escape this force field of energy?

Science is beautiful but , don't preach it like it's gospel all of the time.

Geez hold onto your seat then, Gravity might give way in your space-time reference. Don't fly a plane, you might fall out the sky too.

Global warming is a very real thing, now man made global warming? thats the debate

To late , I have flown a plane already. Was fun !

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(...) , because i believe that energy never dies, it transforms.

I`m sorry but taking energy into connection with dead/never dies must be rated as esoteric.

And so now Hawking says - No , there is no event horizon.

Well hello . How many of you ever thought there was one ? I didn't think there was. I don't even think black holes exist. At least not in the manner which they were explained as being so dangerous and all. And besides , who really knows if whether

or not light can not escape this force field of energy? Science is beautiful but , don't preach it like it's gospel all of the time.

SH is researching in astronomy for more that 50 years now resulting in a number of pioneering findings. The fact that

he has now updated one of his theories is an indicator therefore that the matter itself is not an easy one and that he

is a reliable researcher as he re-evaluates past findings and talks about modifications.

As you don´t accept some findings of SH you should provide at least alternatives (what an unequal race BTW)

because just saying "I don`t believe it" is unsatisfying and not a base for a discussion. It´s quit simple :

counter alternative or shut up forever.

Edited by toast
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Sorry, but black holes seem to have been taught as fact in school. The entire concept had always felt empty , that's probably why I never not accepted it as fact in my mind.Not saying there isn't something happening up there when stars fade into something other , because i believe that energy never dies, it transforms.

I guess i just never felt any assurance in any story/theory science puts out regarding this topic.

And so now Hawking says - No , there is no event horizon.Well hello . How many of you ever thought there was one ? I didn't think there was. I don't even think black holes exist. At least not in the manner which they were explained as being so dangerous and all. And besides , who really knows if whether or not light can not escape this force field of energy?

Science is beautiful but , don't preach it like it's gospel all of the time.

To late , I have flown a plane already. Was fun !

You are mixing apples and oranges. True science has nothing to do with belief. It has ideas which become thoeries which get tested and either prove out or don't. You don't have to believe in gravity if you don't want to, your choice. But that won't keep you from going splat after believing you can fly out of a 4 story window.

Science is it's own gospel, it doesn't need to be preached, just practiced. But if you enter a scientific discussion with "I don't believe it" be prepared to be inundated with overwhelming evidence. That's what science does best.

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I think this idea is in contrast to Susskind's idea about a holographic universe as a way to solve the apparent contradiction between relativity and quantum mechanics on what someone falling into a black hole would observe compared to what an observer watching someone fall into a black hole would observe

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I'm not so sure about gravitation being infinite. Density could be infinite but I think gravitation is dependent on mass.

I always thought that the density of a mass in a black hole body was Approaching infiinity? If it approaches infinity, then gravity also would approach infinity. Thus bending space-time enough to redirect light and to not allow light to emit. But approaching infiinity is not actually infinity, it just for every practical purpose resembles infinity.

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I always thought that the density of a mass in a black hole body was Approaching infiinity? If it approaches infinity, then gravity also would approach infinity. Thus bending space-time enough to redirect light and to not allow light to emit. But approaching infiinity is not actually infinity, it just for every practical purpose resembles infinity.

I think your right that it would tend to infinity but whether it actually reaches infinity isn't clear (at least to me) But the infinite density is at the singularity(maybe) not at the event horizon. Gravity decreases proportionately to the square of the distance from the center. Still if you read what Hawking wrote he still doesn't say anything actually gets out of the black hole except for information, and this only due to entanglement between particles sucked into the hole and particles that don't quite get sucked into the hole. At least that's the way I understand it.
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No Aliens, No Bigfoot, No Black Holes. Yep, science has got it all figured out.

Yes, no Bigfoot, Science never said Aliens do not exist, it has simply helped illustrate that no evidence exists to support that notion that aliens visit this planet and the concept relies totally on a belief system, and you didn't read the links. He does not say Black Holes are fiction, he says some may not have an event horizon, which means light does not have to fall into it making it invisible or a "black hole" which never really was a "hole" in the true sense of the word, a compactor would be a closer analogy as I understand it.

Obviously you did not read the paper he published, which focuses on the firewall issue proposed by Joseph Polchinski.

I wont bother you with that entire three pages of his paper as it seems a bit technical for most, but lets at least look at the articles dumbed down version.

Instead, in his paper, Information Preservation and Weather Forecasting for Black Holes, Hawking proposes that black holes can exist without 'event horizons', the invisible cover believed to surround every black hole.

Understand? Does that say "black holes do not exist" or does it say "There is more than one type of black hole"?

Back to the article:

In his paper, Hawking writes: "The absence of event horizons means that there are no black holes - in the sense of regimes from which light can't escape to infinity."

See? Got it now? Why do we call a black hole a black hole? The hole is called "black" because it absorbs all the light that hits the horizon, reflecting nothing. So if a singularity can allow light to escape, it's not a "black" hole is it?

He is proposing you look for more information, he is not saying Black Holes have been disproven.

You disagree with that??

Edited by psyche101
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You folks are giving me a headache. I'm going to wait for Morgan Freeman's dummed down version for us physically challenged people. :unsure::D

Hank

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Hawking, a remarkable man given his physical situation, to be sure.

Yet, I recall that he stated that ET-aliens are to be be considered aggressive.

And now his paper, which by the way, was heavily influenced by a noted friend.

I once respected Hawking(and to some exent still do), but I'm not so sure that, at his age and infirmities, has not gone semi-delusional.

No mate, that is a misconception, It was actually part of one of his film efforts (Into The Universe I think), and it was entirely speculation all along. The media and some half baked UFOlogists took his phrase literally for some reason and started bashing him. All he said was, in a Universe this big, you could meet anyone, and when Columbus first landed in the Americas, it did not bode well for the natives.

What he was saying is "With Aliens, just about anything could happen"

That's all. The media and UFOlogy panicked and made a right mess of the situation is all. Hawking never made out what he said was fact, ad was quite clear he was speculating a mind experiment.

The paper that mostly addresses another hypothesis whereby Astronauts falling into a black hole would not "Spagettify" but burn to ash in an instant which in turn was probably influenced by his paper on Hawking Radiation. Which says matter can escape from a black hole.

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I still think black holes are real enough; what has been brought into question is the existence of a definable event horizon. It amazes me how the anti-science types jump on some journalist's hyperbole as an excuse to believe their garbage.

I do wish scientists would be more careful though. A "fact" is an observation subject to the accuracy of the measurement: a theory is a mental picture or story we use to put the facts into an understandable structure that gives us clues as to what additional measurements we should make.

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Hawkins theories on Black Holes were believed by millions a few years ago,now he states that there are no Black Holes, so having believed what he said, I now think that he's spouting B.S.and therefore will switch him off in future.

But he did not say that, you should just listen more closely to what the actual man has to say, not the halfwits writing his work so they may understand their version of it for entertainment mediums.

It's a tricky situation. Hawking is too complex for the average layman, and Journalists are simply not Physicists. Hawking has tried to meet this situation in the middle with books like "A Brief History Of Time" which is an excellent layman's entry to Quantum Physics, or the abovementioned series.

He deserves a medal I reckon not only for his efforts, but for still trying after idiots like Hellyer misquote him to adoring audiences seeking self validation of their fantasies.

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He didn't say there were no black holes. Some moronic reporter said that. He just says we have to redefine what the event horizon is.

See?

Everyone who says stuff like:

He's starting to get a little senile.

Obviously had not read the paper, but skimmed the article, and mostly ran with the headline.

Anyone who DID read the links would reply as Spacecowboy did, or like this:

The title There are no black holes here and in the media is missleading as Hawking didn´t say that. His new theory is more related to

the event horizon and its effects on matter. The existence of matter absorbing objects aka Black Holes were never taken into question

by Hawking. So there is no need to decrease his reputation and the results of his ongoing research.

The Hawking paper here:

http://arxiv.org/abs/1401.5761

Seriously people, toast even gave the link, and the paper is a whole 3 pages long. Read before you type. You look a bit ridiculous saying black holes do not exist, nobody ever said that. The headline offered that misconception.

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Physics have a big problem with infinity. Gravitation in a black hole could be infinite. Whats impossible to calculate doesnt exist. The only thing that is for sure, is that nobody knows, and that those who claim they know are liars.

Yet Gravity permeates the weak force and the strong force with the same strength. So why would that change in a black hole? It is assumed to maintain that weak strength across entire dimensions. I understand physics are different in a black hole - or so we assume, but I assume that you have something figured out here? Want to let us in on it?

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