New signs of past life on Mars

[qxcontinuum]

More and more recent discoveries are finding that Mars was once identical to Earth. From alkaline based sweet waters to salt oceans and now the most recent discovery of pas rich oxygen based compounds...gosh...what happened to that planet?

http://science.time.com/2014/01/23/old-mars-rover-finds-new-signs-of-life/

[JasonPollock]

It's no surprise that Earth was not the only planet once inhabited in the solar system. It makes you wonder about how the other life forms survived.

[Hazzard]

Sounds to me like the jury is still out on this.

From the link,...

Similarly life-friendly conditions established by Curiosity last month at Gale Crater were probably hundreds of millions of years younger, showing that Mars was hospitable—at least in certain places—for an extended period. That doesn’t guarantee that life ever did exist on Mars, but it sure doesn’t hurt.

[qxcontinuum]

hazzard

I think you've already gotten the "exhibit A" don't you think so ? :-)

[scowl]

I didn't see anything that article that indicated there was new evidence of life on Mars, just more places that had a slim chance of supporting some form of life.

[qxcontinuum]

Ok lets see what we know about Mars so far;

Water · liquid water activity (a_w)

· Past/future liquid (ice) inventories

· Salinity, pH, and Eh of available water Chemical environment Nutrients:

· C, H, N, O, P, S, essential metals, essential micronutrients

· Fixed nitrogen

· Availability/mineralogy

Toxin abundances and lethality:

· Heavy metals (e.g., Zn, Ni, Cu, Cr, As, Cd, etc., some essential, but toxic at high levels)

· Globally distributed oxidizing soils Energy for metabolism Solar (surface and near-surface only)

Geochemical (subsurface)

· Oxidants

· Reductants

· Redox gradients Conducive

physical conditions · Temperature

· Extreme diurnal temperature fluctuations

· Low pressure (Is there a low-pressure threshold for terrestrial anaerobes?)

· Strong ultraviolet germicidal irradiation

· Galactic cosmic radiation and solar particle events (long-term accumulated effects)

· Solar UV-induced volatile oxidants, e.g., O ₂^–, O^–, H₂O₂, O₃

· Climate/variability (geography, seasons, diurnal, and eventually, obliquity variations)

· Substrate (soil processes, rock microenvironments, dust composition, shielding)

· High CO₂ concentrations in the global atmosphere

· Transport (aeolian, ground water flow, surface water, glacial)

Now we can ad Oxygen to all these...

We have a recipe for life here don't we?

Edited January 27, 2014 by qxcontinuum

[seeder]

Ok lets see what we know about Mars so far;

Water · liquid water activity (a_w)

· Past/future liquid (ice) inventories

· Salinity, pH, and Eh of available water Chemical environment Nutrients:

· C, H, N, O, P, S, essential metals, essential micronutrients

· Fixed nitrogen

· Availability/mineralogy

Toxin abundances and lethality:

· Heavy metals (e.g., Zn, Ni, Cu, Cr, As, Cd, etc., some essential, but toxic at high levels)

· Globally distributed oxidizing soils Energy for metabolism Solar (surface and near-surface only)

Geochemical (subsurface)

· Oxidants

· Reductants

· Redox gradients Conducive

physical conditions · Temperature

· Extreme diurnal temperature fluctuations

· Low pressure (Is there a low-pressure threshold for terrestrial anaerobes?)

· Strong ultraviolet germicidal irradiation

· Galactic cosmic radiation and solar particle events (long-term accumulated effects)

· Solar UV-induced volatile oxidants, e.g., O ₂^–, O^–, H₂O₂, O₃

· Climate/variability (geography, seasons, diurnal, and eventually, obliquity variations)

· Substrate (soil processes, rock microenvironments, dust composition, shielding)

· High CO₂ concentrations in the global atmosphere

· Transport (aeolian, ground water flow, surface water, glacial)

Now we can ad Oxygen to all these...

We have a recipe for life here don't we?

qx, what kind of life, do you get seemingly excited about? Aliens and their spacecraft?

Or the most likely form of Martian life, which would be bacterial/microbial? Life, as we are, took a very long long time to evolve, but Mars never had that long.

[scowl]

We have a recipe for life here don't we?

The "recipe" for life is much more than a collection of ingredients.

[qxcontinuum]

qx, what kind of life, do you get seemingly excited about? Aliens and their spacecraft?

Or the most likely form of Martian life, which would be bacterial/microbial? Life, as we are, took a very long long time to evolve, but Mars never had that long.

I will hope for some complex forms of life at least... once again i'll have to resume to carbon dating or Isotopic age dating on Earth as extremely volatile and inaccurate (see the out of place artifacts)

If the condition on mars were at least a few good millions of years constant having all the above ingredients, there was life! Like creatures with fur and tale chewing vegetables and mushrooms. I won't go further adding a few more million of years referring to potential advance civilizations that maybe was there moving on earth a few thousand years in the past, helping monkeys evolving to proto-humans... etc...

Edited January 27, 2014 by qxcontinuum

[scowl]

If the condition on mars were at least a few good millions of years constant having all the above ingredients, there was life!

Life is much more than... oh wait, I already said that.

[Rafterman]

It's no surprise that Earth was not the only planet once inhabited in the solar system. It makes you wonder about how the other life forms survived.

None of this points to Mars ever being inhabited. All it shows is that the needed pieces as we understand them were present.

[Rafterman]

Ok lets see what we know about Mars so far;

Water · liquid water activity (a_w)

· Past/future liquid (ice) inventories

· Salinity, pH, and Eh of available water Chemical environment Nutrients:

· C, H, N, O, P, S, essential metals, essential micronutrients

· Fixed nitrogen

· Availability/mineralogy

Toxin abundances and lethality:

· Heavy metals (e.g., Zn, Ni, Cu, Cr, As, Cd, etc., some essential, but toxic at high levels)

· Globally distributed oxidizing soils Energy for metabolism Solar (surface and near-surface only)

Geochemical (subsurface)

· Oxidants

· Reductants

· Redox gradients Conducive

physical conditions · Temperature

· Extreme diurnal temperature fluctuations

· Low pressure (Is there a low-pressure threshold for terrestrial anaerobes?)

· Strong ultraviolet germicidal irradiation

· Galactic cosmic radiation and solar particle events (long-term accumulated effects)

· Solar UV-induced volatile oxidants, e.g., O ₂^–, O^–, H₂O₂, O₃

· Climate/variability (geography, seasons, diurnal, and eventually, obliquity variations)

· Substrate (soil processes, rock microenvironments, dust composition, shielding)

· High CO₂ concentrations in the global atmosphere

· Transport (aeolian, ground water flow, surface water, glacial)

Now we can ad Oxygen to all these...

We have a recipe for life here don't we?

1/2 cup butter

1/2 teaspoon baking soda

1 cup cornmeal

1 cup all-purpose flour

1/2 teaspoon salt

2/3 cup white sugar

2 eggs

1 cup buttermilk

Well this is the recipe for Grandma's Cornbread. But no one would call it cornbread at this stage.

[qxcontinuum]

1/2 cup butter

1/2 teaspoon baking soda

1 cup cornmeal

1 cup all-purpose flour

1/2 teaspoon salt

2/3 cup white sugar

2 eggs

1 cup buttermilk

Well this is the recipe for Grandma's Cornbread. But no one would call it cornbread at this stage.

and yet still eatable!

[scowl]

Well this is the recipe for Grandma's Cornbread. But no one would call it cornbread at this stage.

Just mix them and heat them up.

Is cornbread supposed to be black and gritty?

[Hazzard]

Dbl post.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Hazzard

[Hazzard]

and yet still eatable!

So is dog sh!t, but I wouldnt call that bread.

[qxcontinuum]

So is dog sh!t, but I wouldnt call that bread.

This is far to be a smart comment!

[Hazzard]

hazzard

I think you've already gotten the "exhibit A" don't you think so ? :-)

No I dont.

What I have got so far is the usual,... theories, belief and opinions. Not even close to that irrefutable proof that Im looking for.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Hazzard

[DONTEATUS]

The Cocktail for life is the easy part, ITs the Intelligent Life thats the Kicker !

So Far there Still Looking for it out there, side bar,They passed us up on that one !

[coolguy]

There was a war on mars then they came here to earth

[qxcontinuum]

There was a war on mars then they came here to earth

Funny, i thought of that too. In fact there might have been a war between Mars and another planet in vicinity that was literally blown away. That could have also been the Biblical "there was a war in heavens, when Satan lost and was threw away on earth"

read here

http://www.universet...ars-and-jupiter

Edited January 30, 2014 by qxcontinuum

[The Silver Thong]

Funny, i thought of that too. In fact there might have been a war between Mars and another planet in vicinity that was literally blown away. That could have also been the Biblical "there was a war in heavens, when Satan lost and was threw away on earth"

read here

http://www.universet...ars-and-jupiter

``In fact there might have been``

What is that called

[Merc14]

I will hope for some complex forms of life at least... once again i'll have to resume to carbon dating or Isotopic age dating on Earth as extremely volatile and inaccurate (see the out of place artifacts)

If the condition on mars were at least a few good millions of years constant having all the above ingredients, there was life! Like creatures with fur and tale chewing vegetables and mushrooms. I won't go further adding a few more million of years referring to potential advance civilizations that maybe was there moving on earth a few thousand years in the past, helping monkeys evolving to proto-humans... etc...

You are jumping to very large conclusions here. Curiosity was not designed to find signs of past life but to prove that the conditions for life, as we know it here on earth, were present on Mars at one time. It has done that already and hasn't even gotten to its ultimate destination. So far, however, there is absolutely no proof of life of any kind on Mars but the next rover, in development now, is designed to divine just that fact. I wouldn't expect anything more than microbial life but that would be huge IMHO. The chance of a furry creature is very doubtful, however, and advanced civilizations, zero chance.

I hope that you understand how immense discovering proof of even past microbial life on Mars would be? The fact that life developed on two planets in one solar system would mean that life isn't rare but the norm for planets in the Goldilocks zone. There are billions of planets out there in the Goldilocks zone so, well, you can draw your own conclusions.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Merc14

[psyche101]

There was a war on mars then they came here to earth

Yes.

But that was Dragons Versus Fairies, and they killed each other off, only a few made it here and we ate them because Dragons are awesome BBQ'd and Fairies make brilliant Shashliks.

[qxcontinuum]

You are jumping to very large conclusions here. Curiosity was not designed to find signs of past life but to prove that the conditions for life, as we know it here on earth, were present on Mars at one time. It has done that already and hasn't even gotten to its ultimate destination. So far, however, there is absolutely no proof of life of any kind on Mars but the next rover, in development now, is designed to divine just that fact. I wouldn't expect anything more than microbial life but that would be huge IMHO. The chance of a furry creature is very doubtful, however, and advanced civilizations, zero chance.

I hope that you understand how immense discovering proof of even past microbial life on Mars would be? The fact that life developed on two planets in one solar system would mean that life isn't rare but the norm for planets in the Goldilocks zone. There are billions of planets out there in the Goldilocks zone so, well, you can draw your own conclusions.

It was actually opportunity making this discovery again. I am not sure what is happening with curiosity though. It seems to be handicapped lately, doesn't do much but taking pictures.