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and then

The NEXT Lebanon War

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RavenHawk

Where in the N.T. does it say that?

My bad, I didn’t see this back then. It’s not so much as what was directly said as it is understood by implication. It’s there if you look for it. This is off topic but if you like, I can try to put together a separate thread to talk about it. We did a study of this long long ago so I don’t know how complete I can be?? But in general, the OT covers self-defense and Jesus is a Jew so he would believe in and follow Jewish Law. He never spoke against it. There are a couple of incidents in the Gospel that touch on this. I know that back then we agreed that Jesus was indeed for self-defense. To not partake in self-defense was a sin because it opened up people to waste away their GOD given talents to an uncaring adversary and this was different from turning the other cheek. But that’s basically it. You might get a more concise answer it you were to ask the right question in the Spirituality forum?

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and then

Thats a bit harsh on the civilians who's houses are being used as machine gun nests or rocket launch pads, isn't it ?

Hezbollah are exposing those people to the inevitable counter-attacks.

At which point, would you not criticise the Israeli's for causing civilian deaths ?

Of course he will. That's the dirty little secret they won't admit to. Every act of "resistance" is morally justified - NO act of Israel is....

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RoofGardener

I'm glad to see that your time on these fora hasn't made you cynical, AndThen. :w00t:

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and then

I'm glad to see that your time on these fora hasn't made you cynical, AndThen. :w00t:

It's mostly my own fault - I've tried to reasonably 'splain to them over and over :w00t: before it occurred to me that NOTHING will ever make them change their minds.

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Yamato

Thats a bit harsh on the civilians who's houses are being used as machine gun nests or rocket launch pads, isn't it ?

Hezbollah are exposing those people to the inevitable counter-attacks.

At which point, would you not criticise the Israeli's for causing civilian deaths ?

Whatever. There's no designated place for them to go. They can't meet the IDF at the basketball court and fight there.

But they'll be on their own soil defending their own territory from Israel as usual.

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RoofGardener

I think that is kinda missing the point Yamato: the only reason Isreal went INTO Lebannon in the FIRST place was because the PLO (and later, Hezbolloah) where firing rockets into Northern Israel. They provoked the incursion.

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and then

I think that is kinda missing the point Yamato: the only reason Isreal went INTO Lebannon in the FIRST place was because the PLO (and later, Hezbolloah) where firing rockets into Northern Israel. They provoked the incursion.

You miss his point. It goes like this: Israel is illegitimate and an occupier. Ergo Israel is responsible for all violence and has no justification - ever - in striking back. See how wonderful it is to have a blank check?

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Yamato

I think that is kinda missing the point Yamato: the only reason Isreal went INTO Lebannon in the FIRST place was because the PLO (and later, Hezbolloah) where firing rockets into Northern Israel. They provoked the incursion.

Yeah because there's no provocation anywhere in sight until someone on the other side fires a rocket off.

You miss his point. It goes like this: Israel is illegitimate and an occupier. Ergo Israel is responsible for all violence and has no justification - ever - in striking back. See how wonderful it is to have a blank check?

What blank check? My war chest has zero coins in it allocated to your favorite sandbox I assure you.

Israel is responsible for its own actions; that's why I blame Israel for its own actions. Duh, right?

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and then

Yeah because there's no provocation anywhere in sight until someone on the other side fires a rocket off.

What blank check? My war chest has zero coins in it allocated to your favorite sandbox I assure you.

Israel is responsible for its own actions; that's why I blame Israel for its own actions. Duh, right?

The "blank check" is the attitude that Israel is fair game - with absolutely no right to fight due to their "illegitimacy". Unfortunately for her enemies she doesn't play that idiotic game.

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Yamato

The "blank check" is the attitude that Israel is fair game - with absolutely no right to fight due to their "illegitimacy". Unfortunately for her enemies she doesn't play that idiotic game.

I recognize Israel as a state, legitimate in a vacuum. Not its policies however.

Israel's policies and the US's policies both antagonize, bully, demonize, fear monger and worst of all unduly punish millions of innocent people. And it's all so unnecessary. If Israel is so great, let's trade with it. Problem solved; debt paid. Israel should sink or swim on its own merits, like everyone else from every other country. To think that I'm anti-Israel when I don't suggest anything different compared to any other country? That accusation falls apart.

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RoofGardener

I don't quite follow you Yamato ? Surely we DO trade with Israel ? (by "we", I guess I mean.. well... most of the non-muslim world).

Also, what do you mean by "...sink or swim on its own merits" ? Isn't that what Israel is doing ?

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Yamato

I don't quite follow you Yamato ? Surely we DO trade with Israel ? (by "we", I guess I mean.. well... most of the non-muslim world).

Also, what do you mean by "...sink or swim on its own merits" ? Isn't that what Israel is doing ?

I mean that every country should sink or swim by virtue of its own actions. Israel's actions are unacceptable for any country in the world. Their skin color, shoe size, religion, ethnicity, ancient history, fake history, or real history notwithstanding.

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RoofGardener

Soo..... having a civil war and then fighting for survival against foreign aggressors is unacceptable ?

Are YOU going to tell Vietnam, or shall I ?

Edited by RoofGardener

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