Hitler and the Mafia

[LucidElement]

I had a random thought and one I looked into briefly but didn't find much about it. Basically, Hitler was against the Jewish race and the Mafia, not only the powerful New York Mafia (most from Italy/Sicily) but other powerful Mafia families from Europe were made up of a wide variety of Jewish decent. Its an interesting theory and thought to me that not one mafia family either being one in Naples, or the Genovese, Gambino, Luchesse, Colombo, Bonanno, ect tried to put a "hit" on Hitler. The Mafia was extremely strong back in the mid 1900's so its mind blowing to think about. Any ideas, information, or comments on this?

Thanks Guys!

[Merc14]

Do a bit of research on mob activity during the second World War, it is fairly interesting, especially when one considers the players involved. The fact that you didn't bother to do even a basic google search is kind of sad, frankly.

[dr no]

Most jewish gangsters like Lansky etc weren't of Italian descent so weren't members of the mafia although they associated with them.Unless Hitler was directly affecting business they would have no reason to put a hit on him.The mafia did however help stop sabotage in the docks of New York and Luciano helped the allies with his contacts in Sicily during the liberation of Italy

[LucidElement]

Merc I said I couldn't find much on it

[LucidElement]

Merc I said I couldn't find much on it

[Merc14]

Merc I said I couldn't find much on it

Here is one article on the European theater. The mob also did something to keep teh docks running in NY but don't have time right now to look it up

http://www.commandpo...peration-husky/

Edited February 1, 2014 by Merc14

[Hanslune]

Given the large number of attempts to assassinate Hitler it might not be possible to completely discredit the idea but the Mafia in the US tended to buy politicians not shoot too many of them. Of greater interest you might want to look at Mussolini's relationship with the various Italian criminal gangs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_attempts_on_Adolf_Hitler

[rashore]

Sorry Hanslune, it looks like you are necroposting this thread.... I had to remove some spammy self-promoting advertising. I left your link there because it's an interesting link.

[Parsec]

Or he could look at this pretty straightforward wiki

Sicilian mafia during fascism

 

You know, Hitler wasn't the only bad guy in Europe back then. 

By the time Hitler rose to power, Scilian Mafia had already suffered huge damage and was almost dismantled by the fascist regime.

 

Besides, I don't know where you got your info, but Italian criminal organisations (either Mafia,  Cosa Nostra,  'Ndrangheta) were and are definitely not connected to Jewish people. 

 

One of the downsides of mobsters' help to the allies during WWII is that after 1945 Mafia rose again to power and way more powerful than before. 

Not that I'd preferred fascists or nazi, let's be clear, but history is made of shades of grey, and this is one of them. 

[Unusual Tournament]

On 31 January 2014 at 2:36 PM, LucidElement said:

I had a random thought and one I looked into briefly but didn't find much about it. Basically, Hitler was against the Jewish race and the Mafia, not only the powerful New York Mafia (most from Italy/Sicily) but other powerful Mafia families from Europe were made up of a wide variety of Jewish decent. Its an interesting theory and thought to me that not one mafia family either being one in Naples, or the Genovese, Gambino, Luchesse, Colombo, Bonanno, ect tried to put a "hit" on Hitler. The Mafia was extremely strong back in the mid 1900's so its mind blowing to think about. Any ideas, information, or comments on this?

Thanks Guys!

...had no idea the mafia had a strong Jewish element (no pun intended). Killing political leaders and heads of state, starting wars would have been pretty ballsy of criminals. Im sure the American mafia would have wanted to 'wack' Castro for nationalising all the casino's in Cuba. Anyway, American Jewish gangster Bugsy Siegel apparently did want to kill Mussolini though.  

http://www.historytoday.com/larry-gragg/anti-nazi-gangster-bugsy-siegel-and-plot-assassinate-göring

[Parsec]

4 minutes ago, Silver_Lyre said:

...had no idea the mafia had a strong Jewish element (no pun intended).

Indeed it didn't (at least not in Italy). 

 

Quote

Killing political leaders and heads of state, starting wars would have been pretty ballsy of criminals

And pointless as well. 

They are businessmen with guns, not anarchists. 

And until recently they were quite connected to their territory, so, unless backed by some State, they wouldn't have had neither the connections nor the means to do what you suggest. 

[Unusual Tournament]

1 minute ago, Parsec said:

And pointless as well. 

They are businessmen with guns, not anarchists. 

And until recently they were quite connected to their territory, so, unless backed by some State, they wouldn't have had neither the connections nor the means to do what you suggest. 

It is a big call saying that organised crime doesn't have access to assassins, the will and money to play moral crusaders. If i remember correctly ISIS and the Mexican mafia threatened each other not so long ago. I bet if they could have gotten a killers next to ISIS leader Bagdati they would kill him. Given the right conditions and opportunities I'm pretty certain that some criminals might try to get political and self righteous and stuff and do something like that. Maybe thinking that it might buy them a favour. Like i said Bugsy Siegel and Meyer Lansky spoke loudly of killing Hitler and Mussolini. Do you think that the U.S. government would have been upset if a bunch of gangsters had killed Hitler?

[Hanslune]

1 hour ago, rashore said:

Sorry Hanslune, it looks like you are necroposting this thread.... I had to remove some spammy self-promoting advertising. I left your link there because it's an interesting link.

Oops didn't see the two year old age!

[Hanslune]

1 hour ago, Silver_Lyre said:

...had no idea the mafia had a strong Jewish element (no pun intended). Killing political leaders and heads of state, starting wars would have been pretty ballsy of criminals. Im sure the American mafia would have wanted to 'wack' Castro for nationalising all the casino's in Cuba. Anyway, American Jewish gangster Bugsy Siegel apparently did want to kill Mussolini though.  

http://www.historytoday.com/larry-gragg/anti-nazi-gangster-bugsy-siegel-and-plot-assassinate-göring

There were various nationalities Irish, Jewish, Italian and other ethnic groups linked gangs because said gangs relied on family connection to foster support and prevent penetration by outsiders.

[rashore]

1 minute ago, Hanslune said:

Oops didn't see the two year old age!

Understandable enough- you were responding to the recent post that has since been removed I'm assuming.

As far as I'm concerned, it's kind of a nice necrotopic- I don't think a mafia/Hitler connection has been discussed or hashed at all recently.

[Parsec]

1 hour ago, Silver_Lyre said:

It is a big call saying that organised crime doesn't have access to assassins, the will and money to play moral crusaders. If i remember correctly ISIS and the Mexican mafia threatened each other not so long ago. I bet if they could have gotten a killers next to ISIS leader Bagdati they would kill him. Given the right conditions and opportunities I'm pretty certain that some criminals might try to get political and self righteous and stuff and do something like that. Maybe thinking that it might buy them a favour. Like i said Bugsy Siegel and Meyer Lansky spoke loudly of killing Hitler and Mussolini. Do you think that the U.S. government would have been upset if a bunch of gangsters had killed Hitler?

Indeed I said "untill recently".

Back in the 40's the world was quite different.

 

Exaclty who do you think mobsters are?

I have the feeling, but I could be wrong, that you see them as some glorified anti heroes.

They are ruthless, cynical, coward parasites who wouldn't think twice about cutting your throat if that would bring them anything and think to be above and beyond social rules.

So no, I really don't think they'd have the will to "play moral crusaders".

[Unusual Tournament]

50 minutes ago, Parsec said:

Indeed I said "untill recently".

Back in the 40's the world was quite different.

 

Exaclty who do you think mobsters are?

I have the feeling, but I could be wrong, that you see them as some glorified anti heroes.

They are ruthless, cynical, coward parasites who wouldn't think twice about cutting your throat if that would bring them anything and think to be above and beyond social rules.

So no, I really don't think they'd have the will to "play moral crusaders".

...part of me does. I will admit that the concept of someone telling me how to act and do is hypocritical when they do the opposite. I don't see much difference between Hillary Clinton/Donald Trump or say the mexican drug cartels. They will kill and lie to get what they want. The reasons night not be as "noble" as the mexican drug gangs but the results are the same.  

Edited October 30, 2016 by Silver_Lyre

[Parsec]

8 hours ago, Silver_Lyre said:

...part of me does. I will admit that the concept of someone telling me how to act and do is hypocritical when they do the opposite. I don't see much difference between Hillary Clinton/Donald Trump or say the mexican drug cartels. They will kill and lie to get what they want. The reasons night not be as "noble" as the mexican drug gangs but the results are the same.  

Well, there is a difference: the former have a badge, the latter don't. 

 

And usually the latter offer services that the former use. 

[BrooklynGuy]

On 10/29/2016 at 5:43 PM, Silver_Lyre said:

...had no idea the mafia had a strong Jewish element (no pun intended). Killing political leaders and heads of state, starting wars would have been pretty ballsy of criminals. Im sure the American mafia would have wanted to 'wack' Castro for nationalising all the casino's in Cuba. Anyway, American Jewish gangster Bugsy Siegel apparently did want to kill Mussolini though.  

http://www.historytoday.com/larry-gragg/anti-nazi-gangster-bugsy-siegel-and-plot-assassinate-göring

Great thread you guys. Silver_Lyre the Mafia did try to whack Castro and had a role in JFK's assassination as well IMO. There have been many instances over the years where mafia families or individual mafia members assisted and/or undermined governments and their leaders. The Mafia's motivation for doing so is almost always money and power though in the case of Mussolini I think there was a personal element to it as Mussolini threatened the Italian people's very existence which had a huge impact on "biological" family life in Italy. While the mafia in America is not what it once was in terms of numbers and influence, the remaining 9 families in America continue to make new members, their memberships numbers have remained steady over the last 20 years. The Mafia has adapted with the times and they are now involved in very profitable financial and medical schemes in addition to their bread and butter rackets which are drugs, prostitution, money laundering, and gambling.  

 

Here's a few of examples:

FBI used mafia capo to find bodies of Ku Klux Klan victims

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/oct/31/usa.international

 

JFK, RFK, and Cuba

http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/ops/mongoose-jfk-mob.htm

 

The Jewish Plot To Kill Hitler. How the FBI prevented Jewish American gangsters from altering the course of history in 1933

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/199949/the-jewish-plot-to-kill-hitler

 

 

[Parsec]

On 1/11/2016 at 10:18 PM, BrooklynGuy said:

The Mafia's motivation for doing so is almost always money and power though in the case of Mussolini I think there was a personal element to it as Mussolini threatened the Italian people's very existence which had a huge impact on "biological" family life in Italy.

 

Thank you for the contribution BrooklynGuy, although regarding mafia's help to allied forces in WWII to me it was more about 1) revenge, because they suffered a lot of damage and quite a few had to run to US in order to be safe and (way more importantly) 2) they saw a business opportunity. They didn't help for free, in exchange they obtained a lot of power and for sure the Allies didn't care about what would have been there after the victory, they only cared about beating the axis and keeping away communists. 

After 1945 mafia families grew again and stronger than before, being able first to reach Rome and slithering into the "buttons room" and then to infiltrate "the rich north" and its industries.

[Unusual Tournament]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaborations_between_the_United_States_government_and_Italian_Mafia

2 hours ago, Parsec said:

Thank you for the contribution BrooklynGuy, although regarding mafia's help to allied forces in WWII to me it was more about 1) revenge, because they suffered a lot of damage and quite a few had to run to US in order to be safe and (way more importantly) 2) they saw a business opportunity. They didn't help for free, in exchange they obtained a lot of power and for sure the Allies didn't care about what would have been there after the victory, they only cared about beating the axis and keeping away communists. 

After 1945 mafia families grew again and stronger than before, being able first to reach Rome and slithering into the "buttons room" and then to infiltrate "the rich north" and its industries.

 

[BrooklynGuy]

2 hours ago, Parsec said:

Thank you for the contribution BrooklynGuy, although regarding mafia's help to allied forces in WWII to me it was more about 1) revenge, because they suffered a lot of damage and quite a few had to run to US in order to be safe and (way more importantly) 2) they saw a business opportunity. They didn't help for free, in exchange they obtained a lot of power and for sure the Allies didn't care about what would have been there after the victory, they only cared about beating the axis and keeping away communists. 

After 1945 mafia families grew again and stronger than before, being able first to reach Rome and slithering into the "buttons room" and then to infiltrate "the rich north" and its industries.

Good point Parsec, certainly revenge was a motivating factor.

[BrooklynGuy]

9 minutes ago, Silver_Lyre said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaborations_between_the_United_States_government_and_Italian_Mafia

 

Silver_Lyre thanks for the link, great information on the Italian Mafia's links to America during WW2. Charles "Lucky"  Luciano had enormous power and influence within the mafia and with government officials both here and abroad.

Charles Luciano with his two pups

 

Luciano Documentary: 

 

[Likely Guy]

25 minutes ago, BrooklynGuy said:

Silver_Lyre thanks for the link, great information on the Italian Mafia's links to America during WW2. Charles "Lucky"  Luciano had enormous power and influence within the mafia and with government officials both here and abroad.

 

But he also had the worst taste in interior decorating.

[BrooklynGuy]

2 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

But he also had the worst taste in interior decorating.