the myth of Atlantis in context

[granpa]

I know that Atlantis is a favorite topic here and they say that context is everything

so here is the myth of Atlantis in the context of Greek mythology:

At-a-glance/Greek_mythology

Edited January 31, 2014 by granpa

[Atlantisresearch]

They are described as "earth-born" by Plato. "Autochthon" one of the kings of Atlantis appearing on your list also translates as "self-soil", having sprung from the ground. So the Atlanteans were Pelasgians.

[granpa]

And dont overlook Prometheus and Erechthonius

http://www.maicar.co...L/Atlantis.html

According to Plato's account it was Solon, the Athenian statesman and poet whom History says lived 600 years after the Trojan War, the one who brought from Egypt the story of Atlantis. The very old Egyptian priest who talked with Solon was not at all impressed by the ancient stories of the Greeks, such as the one referring to Phoroneus as "the first man," or the legend of the Flood of Deucalion 1, for these stories, according to his view, were not at all ancient.

This Egyptian priest knew that humankind is periodically destroyed, either by fire or water, or by lesser means. And behind the story of Phaethon 3, the Egyptian said, lies the shifting of the celestial bodies around the earth, which cause destruction by fire on its surface at long intervals.

Edited January 31, 2014 by granpa

[Frank Merton]

I wonder how Plato must feel being that the vast majority of those who know anything about him know only about him and Atlantis. How wasted all his great works must seem.

[jaylemurph]

I wonder how Plato must feel being that the vast majority of those who know anything about him know only about him and Atlantis. How wasted all his great works must seem.

Well, I would argue that the vast majority of people historically and currently who consider themselves well-educated -- or at least well-read -- have delved into his work outside the few odd lines in the Critias and Timaeus that refer to Atlantis.

Atlantidiots only seem like a representational sample of the larger world's reading populace here on UM.

--Jaylemurph

[Avalona22]

They are described as "earth-born" by Plato. "Autochthon" one of the kings of Atlantis appearing on your list also translates as "self-soil", having sprung from the ground. So the Atlanteans were Pelasgians.

Interesting you mention that. Have any of you read The URANTIA Book? It explains how a crew of personalities came to the earth to establish and develop a higher culture called Dalamatia (Atlantis?) and bodies were made for these personalities (in order to inhabit the sphere) "out of the earth." Do check it out, for me the book answered so many of my questions and brought up more!

Also check out Gabriel of Urantia for even more mind opening things.

[Avalona22]

I wonder how Plato must feel being that the vast majority of those who know anything about him know only about him and Atlantis. How wasted all his great works must seem.

That's really funny

[Avalona22]

Tid-bit from the book:

Paper 66, Section 2: The Prince's Staff

^{The Planetary Prince of Urantia was not sent out on his mission alone but was accompanied by the usual corps of assistants and administrative helpers.}

^{(742.2)66:2.2 At the head of this group was Daligastia, the associate-assistant of the Planetary Prince. Daligastia was also a secondary Lanonandek Son, being number 319,407 of that order. He ranked as an assistant at the time of his assignment as Caligastia’s associate.}

^{(742.3)66:2.3 The planetary staff included a large number of angelic co-operators and a host of other celestial beings assigned to advance the interests and promote the welfare of the human races. But from your standpoint the most interesting group of all were the corporeal members of the Prince’s staff — sometimes referred to as the Caligastia one hundred.}

^{(742.4)66:2.4 These one hundred rematerialized members of the Prince’s staff were chosen by Caligastia from over 785,000 ascendant citizens of Jerusem who volunteered for embarkation on the Urantia adventure. Each one of the chosen one hundred was from a different planet, and none of them were from Urantia.}

^{(742.5)66:2.5 These Jerusemite volunteers were brought by seraphic transport direct from the system capital to Urantia, and upon arrival they were held enseraphimed until they could be provided with personality forms of the dual nature of special planetary service, literal bodies consisting of flesh and blood but also attuned to the life circuits of the system.}

^{(742.6) 66:2.6 Sometime before the arrival of these one hundred Jerusem citizens, the two supervising Life Carriers resident on Urantia, having previously perfected their plans, petitioned Jerusem and Edentia for permission to transplant the life plasm of one hundred selected survivors of the Andon and Fonta stock into the material bodies to be projected for the corporeal members of the Prince’s staff. The request was granted on Jerusem and approved on Edentia.}

^{(742.7) 66:2.7 Accordingly, fifty males and fifty females of the Andon and Fonta posterity, representing the survival of the best strains of that unique race, were chosen by the Life Carriers. With one or two exceptions these Andonite contributors to the advancement of the race were strangers to one another. They were assembled from widely separated places by co-ordinated Thought Adjuster direction and seraphic guidance at the threshold of the planetary headquarters of the Prince. Here the one hundred human subjects were given into the hands of the highly skilled volunteer commission from Avalon, who directed the material extraction of a portion of the life plasm of these Andon descendants. This living material was then transferred to the material bodies constructed for the use of the one hundred Jerusemite members of the Prince’s staff. Meantime, these newly arrived citizens of the system capital were held in the sleep of seraphic transport.}

^{(742.8) 66:2.8 These transactions, together with the literal creation of special bodies for the Caligastia one hundred, gave origin to numerous legends, many of which subsequently became confused with the later traditions concerning the planetary installation of Adam and Eve.}

^{(743.1) 66:2.9 The entire transaction of repersonalization, from the time of the arrival of the seraphic transports bearing the one hundred Jerusem volunteers until they became conscious, threefold beings of the realm, consumed exactly ten days.}

Check out the red text about myths (including Adam & Eve creation story - Adam being of the Earth and Eve of his rib) originating from that transaction... interesting indeed. There are other parts in the book that make me think of Dalamatia as a possible Atlantis.

Interesting huh,

[Van Gorp]

I wonder how Plato must feel being that the vast majority of those who know anything about him know only about him and Atlantis. How wasted all his great works must seem.

What great works?

Who was Plato?

:-)

[Van Gorp]

What if Plato himself is the myth we still believe in?

[cormac mac airt]

Well, I would argue that the vast majority of people historically and currently who consider themselves well-educated -- or at least well-read -- have delved into his work outside the few odd lines in the Critias and Timaeus that refer to Atlantis.

Atlantidiots only seem like a representational sample of the larger world's reading populace here on UM.

--Jaylemurph

And sadly, a disproportionately representational sample at that. (Try saying that 5 times fast)

cormac

[Harte]

What if Plato himself is the myth we still believe in?

Invented by the evil reptilians that run the Hasbro Corporation.

Why, those b******* are mocking us, right to our faces, to this very day!

the proof

Harte

Edited February 2, 2014 by Harte

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

What great works?

Who was Plato?

:-)

He invented the plate.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Tid-bit from the book:

Paper 66, Section 2: The Prince's Staff

^{The Planetary Prince of Urantia was not sent out on his mission alone but was accompanied by the usual corps of assistants and administrative helpers.}

^{(742.2)66:2.2 At the head of this group was Daligastia, the associate-assistant of the Planetary Prince. Daligastia was also a secondary Lanonandek Son, being number 319,407 of that order. He ranked as an assistant at the time of his assignment as Caligastia’s associate.}

^{(742.3)66:2.3 The planetary staff included a large number of angelic co-operators and a host of other celestial beings assigned to advance the interests and promote the welfare of the human races. But from your standpoint the most interesting group of all were the corporeal members of the Prince’s staff — sometimes referred to as the Caligastia one hundred.}

^{(742.4)66:2.4 These one hundred rematerialized members of the Prince’s staff were chosen by Caligastia from over 785,000 ascendant citizens of Jerusem who volunteered for embarkation on the Urantia adventure. Each one of the chosen one hundred was from a different planet, and none of them were from Urantia.}

^{(742.5)66:2.5 These Jerusemite volunteers were brought by seraphic transport direct from the system capital to Urantia, and upon arrival they were held enseraphimed until they could be provided with personality forms of the dual nature of special planetary service, literal bodies consisting of flesh and blood but also attuned to the life circuits of the system.}

^{(742.6) 66:2.6 Sometime before the arrival of these one hundred Jerusem citizens, the two supervising Life Carriers resident on Urantia, having previously perfected their plans, petitioned Jerusem and Edentia for permission to transplant the life plasm of one hundred selected survivors of the Andon and Fonta stock into the material bodies to be projected for the corporeal members of the Prince’s staff. The request was granted on Jerusem and approved on Edentia.}

^{(742.7) 66:2.7 Accordingly, fifty males and fifty females of the Andon and Fonta posterity, representing the survival of the best strains of that unique race, were chosen by the Life Carriers. With one or two exceptions these Andonite contributors to the advancement of the race were strangers to one another. They were assembled from widely separated places by co-ordinated Thought Adjuster direction and seraphic guidance at the threshold of the planetary headquarters of the Prince. Here the one hundred human subjects were given into the hands of the highly skilled volunteer commission from Avalon, who directed the material extraction of a portion of the life plasm of these Andon descendants. This living material was then transferred to the material bodies constructed for the use of the one hundred Jerusemite members of the Prince’s staff. Meantime, these newly arrived citizens of the system capital were held in the sleep of seraphic transport.}

^{(742.8) 66:2.8 These transactions, together with the literal creation of special bodies for the Caligastia one hundred, gave origin to numerous legends, many of which subsequently became confused with the later traditions concerning the planetary installation of Adam and Eve.}

^{(743.1) 66:2.9 The entire transaction of repersonalization, from the time of the arrival of the seraphic transports bearing the one hundred Jerusem volunteers until they became conscious, threefold beings of the realm, consumed exactly ten days.}

Check out the red text about myths (including Adam & Eve creation story - Adam being of the Earth and Eve of his rib) originating from that transaction... interesting indeed. There are other parts in the book that make me think of Dalamatia as a possible Atlantis.

Interesting huh,

Ohh good grief, that doesn't even qualify as bad science fiction.

[kmt_sesh]

Really? Yet another thread on Atlantis?

It's sadly ironic that two of Plato's more minor compositions have become such an obsession with a certain sect of the modern population. Were someone who had never heard of Plato to read the pages of UM, he or she would be left with the impression that Plato left us nothing but this crazy allegorical tale about a mythical island.

And sadly, a disproportionately representational sample at that. (Try saying that 5 times fast)

cormac

I did. I tried it.

I sprained my tongue, dammit.

[Harry_Dresden]

I agree, it is a fable that has been blown completely outta context. Plato's utopian concept of Atlantis was meant to be political and idealistic more than realistic, something to aspire to and not to be taken literally...well that's how I see it anyway...

[Van Gorp]

Really? Yet another thread on Atlantis?

It's sadly ironic that two of Plato's more minor compositions have become such an obsession with a certain sect of the modern population. Were someone who had never heard of Plato to read the pages of UM, he or she would be left with the impression that Plato left us nothing but this crazy allegorical tale about a mythical island.

I did. I tried it.

I sprained my tongue, dammit.

Try this then, http://atlantis.haktanir.org/ch3.html.

Common sense from a random site aobout Atlantis-like stories.

"My conclusion: Since all these old civilizations mentioned Atlantis in a form or another, or the destruction of an Atlantis-like island and a big flood, it's hard to imagine that they've all been lying or re-telling a story told to them. People in those times were pretty interested in their stories and tradition was everything. I would rather guess that the story had a common root, based on evidence. The survivors of the destruction scattered and landed on the closest areas from the sunk island. Then the story of the sunk land was passed on, and became the basis of religion.

What exactly is a myth, the event itself, the location/size of the island, the tale coming from Egypt, the Atlanteans fighting Athens....

All of them you stupid, it is a crazy story! uhm, right

Not that modern, this obsession with floods seem to me. More common sense.

Plato is yet another, but more insane than others worldwide?

You can't deny the evident, how hard you try my friends :-)

Floods here, floods there, floods everywhere :-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

But Plato left a crazy tale, next!

Edited February 2, 2014 by Van Gorp

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

You know why "mega flood" myths are so prevalent?

The cultures to a man (other then Indigenous Australians interestingly) lived on rivers/the sea. That means they will all have experienced flooding and the damage it can produce. Now imagine someone in those ancient of days wanting to create a cautionary tale, arming of offending h god(s) or becoming too greedy or wanting to explain where they came from and wanting a "cataclysm".

Do you choose "aliens"? No, how do you imagine them?

Do ou choose "famine"? Maybe, but if it's a famine someone will think "why not go somewhere else?"

No, you ground the story in something they'd know(flooding) but ramp it up to eleven just to make a point.

You can't imagine a god. You might not even be able to imagine famine or plague. But flood? That's a known constant.

Now lets look at the Indigenous Australians. No flood myth despite having one of if not the most vibrant mythology in the world and a cultural memory that goes back to before the end of the last Ice Age (one People actually have oral records of watching the ocean rise slowly. That's not a myth, it's a record of their history that science has confirmed). Why do they have no flood myth? Well MAYBE because they were a nomadic culture who didn't settle besides rivers. When a river flooded they just moved on and saw it as part of the natural rhythms not a disaster.

[Atlantisresearch]

O dear, people don't read the basics... Atlantis is not described as a utopia. The Atlanteans are described as having become degenerate (read Critias). They are also portrayed as arrogant (through conquest) etc. The Atlantis myth doesn't at all belong in the genre of utopia fiction like Plato's ideal state in the Republic.

In my view (and a few other classicists take this position) Solon's manuscript [which is the source of the Atlantis myth] was written as a panegyric, recording the deeds of the Athenians -- so there's some historical truth. It is also no coincidence that the dialogue setting of Critias takes place during a festival of Athena.

[Harte]

O dear, people don't read the basics... Atlantis is not described as a utopia. The Atlanteans are described as having become degenerate (read Critias). They are also portrayed as arrogant (through conquest) etc. The Atlantis myth doesn't at all belong in the genre of utopia fiction like Plato's ideal state in the Republic.

In my view (and a few other classicists take this position) Solon's manuscript [which is the source of the Atlantis myth] was written as a panegyric, recording the deeds of the Athenians -- so there's some historical truth. It is also no coincidence that the dialogue setting of Critias takes place during a festival of Athena.

Atlantis was supposed to be Socrates' utopian Republic translated into the real world. This statement is made early on in Critias, IIRC.

Speaking of festivals, the original story from Critias the Elder, which his father Dropides got from Solon's recitation, (in the Critias, not in reality! LOL) was told to Critias at the Feast of Apaturia. This is significant.

Read the best online refutation I've seen of the Atlantifada ( ) here.

Harte

[granpa]

http://religion.wikia.com/wiki/User:Granpa/Factoids/Critias

Athens was supposed to be Socrates' utopian Republic translated into the real world.

[Harte]

Really? Yet another thread on Atlantis?

It's sadly ironic that two of Plato's more minor compositions have become such an obsession with a certain sect of the modern population. Were someone who had never heard of Plato to read the pages of UM, he or she would be left with the impression that Plato left us nothing but this crazy allegorical tale about a mythical island.

I'd say that at least they're reading classics, except I've noted that what seems to be about half of the Atlantis believers have never laid eyes on either one of the two dialogues. Pity.

Harte

[The Puzzler]

What is the purpose of this thread granpa? Another Atlantis thread, why, is there a reason to start this new round of bickering over nothing? Context, what context? The list is very muddled and even I cannot make much of it. What do you want to discuss in association with it?

I'd love to get my teeth into something, but with no goal in sight to debate for, it's kinda unchallenging and depressing....

Edited February 2, 2014 by The Puzzler

[granpa]

some more Greek names mentioned in Critias

Solon said that the priests in their narrative of that war mentioned most of the names which are recorded prior to the time of Theseus, such as Cecrops, and Erechtheus, and Erichthonius, and Erysichthon, and the names of the women in like manner.

[The Puzzler]

some more Greek names mentioned in Critias

Solon said that the priests in their narrative of that war mentioned most of the names which are recorded prior to the time of Theseus, such as Cecrops, and Erechtheus, and Erichthonius, and Erysichthon, and the names of the women in like manner.

Yes, good context, in Cecrops reign:

During his reign, Athena became the patron goddess of the city of Athens in a competition with Poseidon. The two raced ferociously towards the Acropolis. It was a very close race, but Athena, as judged by Cecrops, won. As evidence of her victory she planted an olive tree. Poseidon arrived moments later, struck the acropolis with his trident and thereby created a "salt sea. But Athena had already won, and the city was hers.

The Acropolis was also known as the Cecropia in his honor. The Athenians are said to have called themselves Cecropidæ, during the reigns of the five following kings, in his honor.

Cecrops was the father of three daughters: Herse, Pandrosus and Aglaurus. To them was given a box or jar containing the infant Erichthonius to guard unseen. They looked, and terrified by the two serpents Athena had set within to guard the child, they fled in terror and leapt from the Acropolis to their deaths. Some accounts say one of the sisters was turned to stone instead.

Apparently Cecrops married Aglaurus, the daughter of Actaeus (former king of the region of Attica). It is unknown if this woman was the mother of Cecrops's son Erysichthon. Erysichthon predeceased him, and he was succeeded by Cranaus, who is said to have been one of the wealthiest citizens of Athens at that time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cecrops_I

The story of Atlantis, set in context, must occur at the beginning of the institutions of Athens, first as Cecropia, then as Athens after the contest with Poseidon, which I can see could be a version of the Atlantis story.

Plato may be telling us the more historical version of this story that has been made into a myth.

Edited February 2, 2014 by The Puzzler