Unsolved Triple Murder, North Carolina, 1972

[Regi]

About the Jimmy map, I'd only glanced over it and it appeared to me that the Jimmy was placed way too far north and I see now that it wasn't. (You know, I know those locations and the distances- I've been all over that town on streetview ; seriously, I feel like I've actually been there.)

Anyway, I will say that right off the bat, I was thrown to see word definitions...

The confusion for me was, we'd discussed the case for quite a while before I'd learned of info re: a "gap" and a "hollow" and a dead end road and tire tracks, and so it was two things that confused me: 1) I'd never read of such info since that article was published, and 2) how I could even begin to make sense of it when in the first place, I realize that the topography isn't likely the same as it was in '72.

[mbrn30000]

I have looked over the timeline, though there are conflicts between newspapers on some facts. I guess we can agree some sloppy reporting is involved, given the changing names and such. Here it goes.

First of all here are three distances to remember. I could not find an address for the trailer park but it was described in an article as just past the baptist church, near the A&P on the left. Well the boone pharmacy was next to the A&P and is supposedly still there. looking at the map, on W King (also 421) across from ASU there is a boone pharmacy attached to a whole food like store that very well could have been an A&P back then. A&P is no longer in Boone. And there is a First Baptist church just up from there heading towards the crimes scene. So if you were driving away from the crime Scene, you would pass the First Baptist church, the next cross is Cherry and the A&P should be at that intersection if I am right, making the trailer park somewhere on Cherry around 3.5 miles from 187 Clyde Townsend Road the murder scene approaching 105 bypass from the North using those directions. the Jimmy was abandoned about 1.4 miles from the crime scene heading South down 105 bypass in the opposite direction of 421 then making left on 105 towards boone, and then left on Popular grove where it was abandoned. the current map shows that you can reach the trailer park quite easily in each direction, but heading from W. King (421) to the Durham House appears shorter today. Not sure of the state of the roads then. So it appears in good driving weather the Halls lived less than 10 mins away. I don't know which direction they drove, but from the 421 would be the shortest today. The halls lived very close to the university and not far and in somewhat the direction of the abandoned Jimmy.

5:00 PM Troy goes to Library. No info on what Ginny is doing or Mr. Small

8pm-9pm Troy is seen taking a break at Library

9PM Durhams are seen arriving home by neighbors

9:55 Troy is reported arriving home by Ginny to watch Olympics

10:10 TV goes on blink, Troy/Ginny Turn on music

10:15 Troy receives call from Virginia whispering 3 black men are beating Bryce and Bobby phone goes dead

10:16ish Troy asked Ginny if it could be joke and redials. Phone is busy

10:18 Troy cannot start car goes to Cecil Small's trailer two doors down

10:20 Jimmy nearly runs car off road racing down 105 by-pass before turning left towards Boone on 105 (abandoned less than half mile further up 105 on cross street Popular Grove

10:20 The trio sets out in bad weather for the 3.5 trek to save the Durhams

10:35 They report arriving, looking in windows, go thru garage with gun drawn and find the Durhams

10:37 they run back to the car, down the hill and while leaving run it into the ditch. They walk to nearby apt complex for help

10:50 Call is logged by Police about the murders from either the Halls or Small.

So many problems with this timeline and the behavior of the rescue party. I think there was a fourth person, maybe related to Hall or Small participating who left a car at Popular, and who drove the Jimmy off to this spot. Would have been the first side street off the main road 105 on the left. The Halls could have approached from the south on 105 rather than the closer 421 approach on the north to obscure their path. but if they were not part of it, it would make sense they would not have seen the Jimmy if they approached from the North.

The investigator Whitman reports asking Ginny what the car did when they tried to start it and said it made a clicking sound. But it sounds like nobody ever checked it. WHy would you be relying on this as the determining factor of what was wrong with Hall's car. Whitman at the time was SBI but still years later never referred to any mechanics view. It appears the police focused in on the alledged 3 black men theory for several days and by then Hall lawyered up. Does not sound like they got the three alone to let them tell their stories of how they came to be there that night. I wonder if they even checked out to see if the tv was on the blink. More questions than answers. Well this is my contribution today.

I dug this old post of mine up. I thought the trailer park was on cherry.

[Vincennes]

Troy – I definitely think that he was behind this entire thing. There are numerous reasons/motives that one could easily speculate. Unfortunately, that’s about all we and apparently the police can do. Perhaps he/they were afraid that Ginny was about to be written out of the Durham estate. Like I said before, maybe they wanted the updated Will from the house safe before it was able to be filed. Maybe it was something as simple as he was mad that they didn’t welcome him into the family. Perhaps he was in debt for drugs and said, “Hey forgive my debt and I will set you up with a house you can easily hit and score big”

This brings me to the four suspects that were initially charged. If Troy was in fact involved in drugs, it is not a stretch that he would have been associated with this group from Asheville. Let’s mull over the possibilities a bit here…

Bless you if you've made it this far! I hope I didn't ramble too much!

I think you really have some excellent points in this post . Please know I'm not dismissing the rest of them by my snip. Your point regarding the guy who discovered the jeep picking up his kid at 11:00 pm from a school event is EXACTLY what I was trying to say re. the library closing early IF the storm had been the blizzard it has now become. SCHOOLS close things and/or call off events at pretty much the drop of a hat. They are managed by PUBLIC employees, teachers, etc. who get paid whether they are open or not.

I hope you're still mulling over the drug connection because I do have some thoughts on that because when I first entered this thread that was my primary thought. That's because I lived for about 10 years in a suburb in the Detroit area. I actually had the charming experience of taking my new car in for servicing only to have them tell me they had to send for a part and it took over a week to obtain that part (BS).

When I did get my car back driving home, I happened to put my hand down in the seat and pulled out a swizzle stick drink memento from a downtown Detroit hotel. That took my attention to the mileage, they seem to have forgotten to disconnect it or did so a little late in the game because my car had an extra 670 miles on it ! That's when I noticed every screw on the interior trim of the car showed that it had been tampered with, including those that would remove the door panels. There were certain flowers packed in with dirt embedded in my bumper that only grow in very upper Michigan and Canada. Oh yes, I did go to that dealer himself (a large, multi make dealership ) reported it to the dealer and I will NEVER forget that was the only time in my life I looked in the guys eyes across the desk from me and realized if I didn't shut up quickly enough this guy would just as soon call in goons in that very office to shut me up. I truly think that would have bothered him less than talking to me !

I'm only telling you this because it does relate to what I see might have been the possible drug connection. You see I found out later, the auto dealer in my case lived on one of the multiple Michigan lakes. In fact, he owned an island on one of those lakes and that's where his home was located.

Now compare that to the Durham's split level. It's certainly a nice home but it really doesn't reflect any kind of major money such as drugs bring in. It wasn't really much more than a Blue Collar worker's home. That sets my mind that it's a long shot Bryce and Virginia were into drug dealing themselves. I think you have to dismiss their own involvement before you look toward someone else. That takes me to Troy's possible involvement. Because if Troy is involved, I think he was looking for bigger money than just running $2,500.00 bags of marijuana. I think his desire might have been to TAKE OVER the dealership and thereby create a perfect distribution location for drug shipments out of Florida. Like the dealer I ran into, that would give Troy a location to accept drugs from Florida, pack them in other cars and send them off throughout the upper states. You see they love to use various other license plates that are available them multiple ways in a dealership. That's what the DEA pointed out to me with my car. Not flashy, 4-door family model and if you run the license plate comes back to people who never had even a traffic ticket on their record. Perfect to go across that Canadian border and not be stopped or really questioned.

I've done so poorly expressing myself lately, I hope I'm coming through here. It's that this wasn't over just simple drug packages here and there, it was over control of that dealership and everything it would have afforded. Now you would be talking real money.

This brings me to one other suspect and that's the "partner" with Bryce in the dealership. Who the heck was that partner ???? In all of our digging I don't think I've seen ANY mention of 1) What kind of partner was he ? or 2) MOST IMPORTANT, WHO he was !!!!!!!!

Now I find that freaking odd that there was a "partner" who is only mentioned a couple of times in the multiple articles each of us have read and each time no name is used. Could it be a partner that wanted set Bryce up, (family man type - just like my car) and then use the dealership behind his back? ! I can you one thing for sure and certain if that partner was anything like the dealer I dealt with, you wouldn't have found his name in anything either. I also have to seriously consider the no facts reported in this as being important facts.

That's my "War and Peace" contribution for today ~~

Edited October 6, 2015 by Vincennes

[Vincennes]

Respectfully snipped/ MB:

"So many problems with this timeline and the behavior of the rescue party. I think there was a fourth person, maybe related to Hall or Small participating who left a car at Popular, and who drove the Jimmy off to this spot. Would have been the first side street off the main road 105 on the left. The Halls could have approached from the south on 105 rather than the closer 421 approach on the north to obscure their path. but if they were not part of it, it would make sense they would not have seen the Jimmy if they approached from the North."

If I'm looking at the new maps from Lmommy right, I'm noticing the jeep was indeed headed back to town. Now that's a very strange way to go in a get away car carrying loot. I'm still going with the jeep was to be the second plant toward Black individuals. They were on their way to abandon it in a Black neighborhood.

[mbrn30000]

this is why I think it was on Cherry:

The Durhams have a daughter, Ginny. "She had recently married this guy by the name of Troy Hall, and they lived near the A&P," Whitman said. "The backstreet, there was a Baptist church and as you go on past there, there was a trailer park on your left. This is where Ginny and her husband lived, two miles from where her parents lived.

http://www.therecordofwilkes.com/newsa.asp?edition_number=640&pg=F

this is from Whittman

[mbrn30000]

I am not convinced of a drug connection. But there are other things that a dealership can front. Selling stolen vehicles, and parts is one that I have heard of small time dealers getting caught selling. I have seen articles referring to a partner who backed out but never a name. I am wondering if Bryce cleaned up that dealership or caught whoever was doing something wrong, and someone wanted him out of the way. Perhaps Troy thought he would inherit the dealership with Ginny but that is not how GM dealerships work. You have to be approved. And there are cases surviving widows are forced to sell to whomever GM says they will sell.

I remember one article, I pointed out earlier, referred to Bryce as the co-owner of the dealership. Of course it could be just bad reporting. Ginny should know who her father partnered with. I would like to know what is the source of Bryce's money to buy the dealership.

[mbrn30000]

A new article about the case has been published in Discovery ID magazine. It's a short article that mainly rehashes old info. But, the last paragraph is very interesting. I have uploaded it to the file dropper website. The links are below.

http://www.filedropper.com/cover_6

http://www.filedropper.com/page1_1

http://www.filedropper.com/page2_1

Wonder who the mystery woman is? Could it be Ginny? And what would be untested evidence an ordinary citizen would have? Could it be the surviving spouse of one of the investigators? Or maybe Cecil's widow? This is a mystery in a mystery.

[Regi]

this is why I think it was on Cherry:

The Durhams have a daughter, Ginny. "She had recently married this guy by the name of Troy Hall, and they lived near the A&P," Whitman said. "The backstreet, there was a Baptist church and as you go on past there, there was a trailer park on your left. This is where Ginny and her husband lived, two miles from where her parents lived.

http://www.therecord...number=640&pg=F

this is from Whittman

Do you mean you think it was in the vicinity of where Leola is now? (There's presently a Cherry off the north side of King and I'm not sure if that's the area you're referring to....)

I think they approached the by-pass from the south because for one thing, it wouldn't have even been possible for them to have passed or otherwise spotted the Jimmy if they hadn't.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Leola+Dr,+Boone,+NC+28607/@36.197021,-81.6613476,229m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x8850fa5b118915d5:0xffb3bec59393430e

[mbrn30000]

Do you mean you think it was in the vicinity of where Leola is now? (There's presently a Cherry off the north side of King and I'm not sure if that's the area you're referring to....)

I think they approached the by-pass from the south because for one thing, it wouldn't have even been possible for them to have passed or otherwise spotted the Jimmy if they hadn't.

https://www.google.c...fb3bec59393430e

there is a description that the trailer park was near where the Walmart is now in one article. Then the other description is near where the A&P was which is not easy to determine. Cherry is more like 2 miles from the Durham home, and the other location more like 4. I think the rescue party came from the north and the fleeing Jimmy fled south.

[Regi]

there is a description that the trailer park was near where the Walmart is now in one article. Then the other description is near where the A&P was which is not easy to determine. Cherry is more like 2 miles from the Durham home, and the other location more like 4. I think the rescue party came from the north and the fleeing Jimmy fled south.

Right, I agree, but I don't believe the info that the Halls lived 2 miles from the Durham's was correct.

[mbrn30000]

I am wondering if there was another Walmart before the supercenter opened. wonder if that is the confusion. I am having no luck finding it.

Or several A&P's back then.

Edited October 6, 2015 by mbrn30000

[Vincennes]

I am not convinced of a drug connection. But there are other things that a dealership can front. Selling stolen vehicles, and parts is one that I have heard of small time dealers getting caught selling. I have seen articles referring to a partner who backed out but never a name. I am wondering if Bryce cleaned up that dealership or caught whoever was doing something wrong, and someone wanted him out of the way. Perhaps Troy thought he would inherit the dealership with Ginny but that is not how GM dealerships work. You have to be approved. And there are cases surviving widows are forced to sell to whomever GM says they will sell.

I remember one article, I pointed out earlier, referred to Bryce as the co-owner of the dealership. Of course it could be just bad reporting. Ginny should know who her father partnered with. I would like to know what is the source of Bryce's money to buy the dealership.

I'm sorry that you seem to be dismissing what I said about the drug connection dealerships had available to them. I didn't make it up myself or just imagine what I was told. After I realized my car had been dismantled I did contact DEA and they sent three representatives to my house to inspect my car. They are actually the ones who found the Canadian flowers lodged behind my bumper ! It was these DEA agents who explained to me what the game was and why they wanted nondescript, family cars with innocent license plates.

By the way also my cousin is a real estate agent here in town. You see one of the major routes from the south to the north passes right by Podunk. She had a call from an individual to show a property just a few miles off one of the exits for that route. What he first asked was if it had a barn and if it had entry from the back. She showed the property but about dropped her brief case when the guy said he did want the property, offered her cash ON THE SPOT as long as she made the transfers without him being there. He didn't want the seller even contacted about the sale, he wanted just to hand her the cash right then and there. What they were looking for was the barn as a drop location right off the highway.

I believe she left tire marks as she drove away and decided a few weeks after that real estate might not be the safe profession it used to be.

And, oh yes, I forgot when I initially contacted the local police department about it, they asked me to PLEASE contact the DEA about it because they were getting multiple complaints about cars from that dealership being returned with extra miles on them.......

Why didn't I go father with it...... To the press or to my State Senator ????? Because as I first talked to the DEA and the police I was fool enough to think it was just one of the motor-jockies doing it at night. After I looked into the owner's eyes that day, it came to me rather loud and clear, I would be messing with the BIG BOYS ! A dead secretary would be rather easy to arrange far bigger than the little drug dealers I was initialing thinking about.

As far as GM or others checking their possible candidates for owners of dealerships. They would be checking them out as to their financial backgrounds. When I worked at the AD agency, my job was Customer Service for the Vice Presidents and above but we did have a Chevrolet dealer who was large enough to warrant being assigned personal Customer Service. He was well known for having a personal commitment of sending $100's of $1000's each year to the IRA. Actually our CEO was himself Irish, so that dealer was very well liked and it certainly wasn't interring with him owning a dealership. Actually now that I think about it, that might just have been the reason he received our Customer Service.

The dealer I encountered with the drugs wasn't on our radar screen of importance even though he was huge. I did find out later the name he used was Americanized. He, himself, was actually a Middle Eastern immigrant that came here with his own bucks. No surprise there.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Vincennes

[mbrn30000]

I'm sorry that you seem to be dismissing what I said about the drug connection dealerships had available to them. I didn't make it up myself or just imagine what I was told. After I realized my car had been dismantled I did contact DEA and they sent three representatives to my house to inspect my car. They are actually the ones who found the Canadian flowers lodged behind my bumper ! It was these DEA agents who explained to me what the game was and why they wanted nondescript, family cars with innocent license plates.

By the way also my cousin is a real estate agent here in town. You see one of the major routes from the south to the north passes right by Podunk. She had a call from an individual to show a property just a few miles off one of the exits for that route. What he first asked was if it had a barn and if it had entry from the back. She showed the property but about dropped her brief case when the guy said he did want the property, offered her cash ON THE SPOT as long as she made the transfers without him being there. He didn't want the seller even contacted about the sale, he wanted just to hand her the cash right then and there. What they were looking for was the barn as a drop location right off the highway.

I believe she left tire marks as she drove away and decided a few weeks after that real estate might not be the safe profession it used to be.

And, oh yes, I forgot when I initially contacted the local police department about it, they asked me to PLEASE contact the DEA about it because they were getting multiple complaints about cars from that dealership being returned with extra miles on them.......

Why didn't I go father with it...... To the press or to my State Senator ????? Because as I first talked to the DEA and the police I was fool enough to think it was just one of the motor-jockies doing it at night. After I looked into the owner's eyes that day, it came to me rather loud and clear, I would be messing with the BIG BOYS ! A dead secretary would be rather easy to arrange far bigger than the little drug dealers I was initialing thinking about.

I believe you about what happened, but the cops said they looked for a drug connection. The killers certainly could be on drugs or needing money for drugs. I just think the motive was more personal. I only mentioned the other possibilities because Bryce could have stumbled onto something. I would also think if it was a drug related crime, someone would have offered up information a long time ago. druggies often get in trouble and trade info with the cops. But since I have no idea what the truth is, I guess drugs are as good of motive as any.

[Vincennes]

I believe you about what happened, but the cops said they looked for a drug connection. The killers certainly could be on drugs or needing money for drugs. I just think the motive was more personal. I only mentioned the other possibilities because Bryce could have stumbled onto something. I would also think if it was a drug related crime, someone would have offered up information a long time ago. druggies often get in trouble and trade info with the cops. But since I have no idea what the truth is, I guess drugs are as good of motive as any.

Thank you but what I'm trying to convey here is that local dealers such as a possible wannabe in Troy (possibly wanting to be a dealer) are chump change as far as the possibilities for that dealership in that location to make drug money. I realized that when I sat there and looked into this guys eyes (He also owned a Mitsubishi dealership and the largest Harley dealership I've ever seen and was I believe there was one more)

Now there was a guy who could have arranged to hang anyone he wanted to out to dry in that tub.

It would certainly offer help for Troy or possibly the partner involved ???? Like you, I'd like to know who that dealership passed on to. Is there a possibility Troy was just into it enough to realize, like I did, that he and Ginny needed to shut up and lay low ???

I don't think this is my first theory now either but I DO see it as a possibility with large enough money behind it the partner's name is never mentioned AND large enough investigation files go MISSING.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Vincennes

[Regi]

I am wondering if there was another Walmart before the supercenter opened. wonder if that is the confusion. I am having no luck finding it.

Or several A&P's back then.

Well, the only thing I've been able to ascertain about A&P is that it was "downtown".

You know, we've already pointed out other issues we've had with Whitman's info but why the heck didn't he identify present-day landmarks to describe where these people lived? And since he didn't, then why wasn't he asked? (I'm not really asking, just... )

Anyway...

The info from the following article comes across to me as though there might have been a former Wal-Mart located on that same site.

http://news.walmart.com/news-archive/2010/09/07/walmart-brings-savings-convenience-to-boone

There's a Baptist church on Greenway but I'm not sure it's the church Whitman spoke of...

https://www.google.com/maps/place/880+Greenway+Rd,+Boone,+NC+28607/@36.197605,-81.6636567,459m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x8850fa5c848889af:0xcb5d338a8757d5e8!6m1!1e1

[Vincennes]

LOL Perhaps we need to begin a tally of just how many forgetful, incompetent, innocently vague people, who can't manage to keep files in the file cabinets there are in and around Boone, NC. Seems to be they certainly have their share.

Reminds me of one of my favorite all time routines :

Ash, NC are there pillars to hide behind at the Boone Court House. I hope this plays because the last posts make me think of Charles Durning fondly.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Vincennes

[lorimommy3]

I am wondering if there was another Walmart before the supercenter opened. wonder if that is the confusion. I am having no luck finding it.

Or several A&P's back then.

Yes there was another walmart but it was in the same location. I have that confirmed from locals as well as a newspaper listing from when the Walmart super-center opened in 2011

[mbrn30000]

Yes there was another walmart but it was in the same location. I have that confirmed from locals as well as a newspaper listing from when the Walmart super-center opened in 2011

The trailer park was and apparently is near the new and only Walmart.

Here is Cecil's widows obit. and it has her former Boone address http://www.wataugade...8985370d87.html

107 Zeb St, Boone, NC 28607

https://www.google.c...2e06c91!6m1!1e1

She apparently died this year. Doesn't seem she lived a life of luxury.

Edited October 6, 2015 by mbrn30000

[docyabut2]

Really guys what other evidence is there, when the Halls were at the scene before ever calling the cops.

[mbrn30000]

Really guys what other evidence is there, when the Halls were at the scene before ever calling the cops.

that is suspicious but not evidence. most what we have is just suspicions. Maybe the new evidence will point to the right killers.

[asheonce]

The trailer park was and apparently is near the new and only Walmart.

Here is Cecil's widows obit. and it has her former Boone address http://www.wataugade...8985370d87.html

107 Zeb St, Boone, NC 28607

https://www.google.c...2e06c91!6m1!1e1

She apparently died this year. Doesn't seem she lived a life of luxury.

Yes, the trailer park still exists, and it is behind Wal-Mart, on Hwy 321, heading towards the town of Blowing Rock.

You can see the trailer park in satellite view on Google map.

It is nowhere near King Street.

Edited October 7, 2015 by asheonce

[docyabut2]

Perhaps Cecil never really ever made out with any funds from the killings, but just got caught up with it with the halls in the killings and a cover up.

[NCHillbilly]

LOL Perhaps we need to begin a tally of just how many forgetful, incompetent, innocently vague people, who can't manage to keep files in the file cabinets there are in and around Boone, NC. Seems to be they certainly have their share.

Reminds me of one of my favorite all time routines :

Ash, NC are there pillars to hide behind at the Boone Court House. I hope this plays because the last posts make me think of Charles Durning fondly.

Good one, V!

The A&P was in a strip mall on the site where the current Walmart is located. The Roses store was also in the same strip mall.There is indeed a Greenway Baptist church, the only landmark still there today. All these locales were/are well within walking distance of the trailer park.

[Vincennes]

The trailer park was and apparently is near the new and only Walmart.

It makes sense that even if a new Walmart was built it would likely be on the same property. If you notice Walmart's are usually stand-alone buildings simply located close to other malls. That's because Walmart actually buys the property then constructs buildings that they own (Sears does the same thing, even though they might attach to a mall, they own their own buildings) This is very different from those stores built on property such as you see previously as "Build to Suit." That means the owner of the property actually builds the building for them and then rents/leases it out. This ownership is why you might see their older stores in less desirable locations. Like a homeowner opposed to a renter, they hang in there as long as is at all feasible.

(Dated a commercial real estate salesman for years )

[Regi]

It makes sense that even if a new Walmart was built it would likely be on the same property.

Evidently, there was someone to whom it didn't make sense in the city where I live because there was a Wal-Mart and a Target and when both stores expanded, they moved moved out of those buildings and built on other properties.

*****

To me, Whitman's discription as to where the Hall's had lived came across as though such places no longer existed, but for me, the location of the mobile home park was: 1) not difficult to determine, and 2) established a long freakin' time ago.