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Regi

Unsolved Triple Murder, North Carolina, 1972

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docyabut2

Just a thought .The only connection I can see if the son in law didn't to do this crime, it is the Jimmy that the Durham's took home. If this was a planned murder by family or some one else, why in the middle of a big snow storm? The killers were looking for something Did they ever check out any employee's that could have hidden drugs for a gang of drugs dealers in the jimmy while it was parked in the lot, never thinking the Durhams would have taken it home that night.? Could drug thugs have faked a breakdown on the road and stopped the Durams just to get in the car,and made the Durhams take them to their home to make a call, killing them all, so they could not identify the three men, then took the jimmy back to their so called broke down car transferring all the boxes of drugs in the trunk to their car.

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asheonce

According to the news article from link on page one, A silver plate from the home was found in the back seat.

https://news.google....8,2534985&hl=en

Are we looking at the same photo? Doesn't the one in the middle have a dark skirt on and the one on the far right has men's long underwear on? His body overlaps the one in the middle as well as does the jacket. Are you saying the one with long underwear on is the mother?

http://ididitforjodi...els-with-cecil/

Yes, everyone is looking at the same photo. Since it's small and black and white, some things are hard to distinguish

That is Virginia on the far right. That's not long underwear that she's wearing, it's the top of her pantyhose. It looks to me like she was wearing a one-piece blouse/skirt that was a popular style back in 1972, and it's hiked up almost all the way to her waist.

I think what that indicates is that she was almost surely already dead when they put her head in the water. And they sort of just hurriedly put her in at the end almost like an afterthought.

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Regi

I really wonder about the competence in this case. why not try or use touch dna on the ligatures? every year this case is less and less solvable. but we have discussed all this before. if you want to kill somebody, take them on a sight seeing tour of boone county. it won't take much staging to fool the local's finest.

I question whether there is genuine effort to solve the case because I find the sheriff's explanation stunningly lame and bottom line, unacceptable. To me, protocol dictates that evidence is submitted for analysis and the crime lab generates a report which states the results- any results- and if an item is insufficient for testing, then that's what's reflected in the results and that's what's reflected in the report.

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lw-intuit

Just a thought .The only connection I can see if the son in law didn't to do this crime, it is the Jimmy that the Durham's took home. If this was a planned murder by family or some one else, why in the middle of a big snow storm? The killers were looking for something Did they ever check out any employee's that could have hidden drugs for a gang of drugs dealers in the jimmy while it was parked in the lot, never thinking the Durhams would have taken it home that night.? Could drug thugs have faked a breakdown on the road and stopped the Durams just to get in the car,and made the Durhams take them to their home to make a call, killing them all, so they could not identify the three men, then took the jimmy back to their so called broke down car transferring all the boxes of drugs in the trunk to their car.

Unless they followed the Durhams home, how would they know what time they would come by and in what vehicle? Guess they could have figured the time out if they knew closing time, but not certain that was adhered to considering the storm and the father having been elsewhere. I doubt they would stand out in the middle of the road in a wild snowstorm and just wait specifically for them, especially if the family was arriving home in a vehicle that wasn't the one they normally drove and they wouldn't know that. It would appear the family settled in for the evening and if there were strangers who arrived with them, I doubt the mother would have left her purse or the money bag/envelope out in plain sight. IF it was staged to look like a robbery gone bad, why no robbery? Rather stupid to stage a robbery with three dead bodies over a tub and money in plain sight. I agree, they were looking for something else and what they took was the Jimmy, so they had to have the keys to it. Possibly they were in the father's coat, or maybe not. Looking at the drawers pulled out, and seeing what appears to be a lady's jewelry box on top of the drawers, looks to me like they were searching the parent's room.

Whether the Jimmy had previously been a drug runner's vehicle, I still doubt that it was drugs they were looking for simply because I would guess the car, IF a repo, would have been cleaned/reconditioned prior to arrival at the dealership. Always the possibility the cleaner could have put something in the vehicle for someone else to pick up later, I guess. IF it was a new vehicle, doubt that would apply since it was likely coming directly from the factory. Guess whoever delivered the vehicle could have put something in the vehicle for pick-up later.

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lw-intuit

Yes, everyone is looking at the same photo. Since it's small and black and white, some things are hard to distinguish

That is Virginia on the far right. That's not long underwear that she's wearing, it's the top of her pantyhose. It looks to me like she was wearing a one-piece blouse/skirt that was a popular style back in 1972, and it's hiked up almost all the way to her waist.

I think what that indicates is that she was almost surely already dead when they put her head in the water. And they sort of just hurriedly put her in at the end almost like an afterthought.

Thanks for explaining. I thought the plaid item was a jacket, didn't realize that is a skirt.

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asheonce

Thanks for explaining. I thought the plaid item was a jacket, didn't realize that is a skirt.

You're welcome. The first time I ever saw that photo, I had to study it for awhile to distinguish between who was who in it. It's obviously not a very graceful photo. But the killers weren't interested in making things look graceful considering they had just murdered 3 people.

One think I have pondered; many of the accounts I've read implied that the victims were found with their hands bound, or even hogtied. They don't appear to be bound in that photo. I guess that's just another example of how info can get skewed or exaggerated by the time it makes it to the public.

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docyabut2

Unless they followed the Durhams home, how would they know what time they would come by and in what vehicle? Guess they could have figured the time out if they knew closing time, but not certain that was adhered to considering the storm and the father having been elsewhere. I doubt they would stand out in the middle of the road in a wild snowstorm and just wait specifically for them, especially if the family was arriving home in a vehicle that wasn't the one they normally drove and they wouldn't know that.

An employee into dealing drugs could have told other drug dealers the Durham's took that Jimmy and where they lived. I just saying maybe some of these employees at the dealership were using these cars for a under cover drug running organization, Its just odd that the only thing taken in this whole crime was that Jimmy, just a thought:)

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lw-intuit

You're welcome. The first time I ever saw that photo, I had to study it for awhile to distinguish between who was who in it. It's obviously not a very graceful photo. But the killers weren't interested in making things look graceful considering they had just murdered 3 people.

One think I have pondered; many of the accounts I've read implied that the victims were found with their hands bound, or even hogtied. They don't appear to be bound in that photo. I guess that's just another example of how info can get skewed or exaggerated by the time it makes it to the public.

Since the only rope mentioned was the one said to have been found loosely around the father's neck, I thought possibly the same rope was used in all three strangulations. I think it was stated there were rope burns on all three victims hands and neck, so wondering if they secured the hands with the rope first and then looped it up the back and around the neck. Once the strangulation was completed to unconsciousness, then taking off the rope and placing body over tub, head under water, moving on to next victim. I would guess by the severity at the location on the hands might have been evidence they were hogtied. According to this article, it is typically the hands and feet tied, but in torture, it will extend to the head. I don't recall mention of the ankles being rope burned, but if they're saying hog-tied, I'd guess that could be a factor as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogtie

Problem is the rope ended up around the father's neck, who was said to have been the first murdered. Hard for me to believe they strangled the mother last, took off the rope and then placed it back around the father's neck. Makes no sense. If this was a grudge having something to do with the father, and the same rope was used, possibly the other family members died first with father forced to watch. That would have to be some big grudge to do so at least big in the mind of the perp(s).

Also wondering why they left the sash cord behind as evidence. My guess is they found it in the son's room, meaning possibly they didn't bring the murder weapon with them so maybe the murders weren't premeditated as such but rather something that escalated once there. That's not to say they didn't have other weapons with them. Just thinking that if it is proven the sash rope came from the home, then it was likely a last minute decision.

The rope around the father's neck, with father's head in water, was likely in the running water as well for some time after thereby possibly making DNA identification impossible. Don't know whether water would wash all DNA away. Something else to research.

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lw-intuit

An employee into dealing drugs could have told other drug dealers the Durham's took that Jimmy and where they lived. I just saying maybe some of these employees at the dealership were using these cars for a under cover drug running organization, Its just odd that the only thing taken in this whole crime was that Jimmy, just a thought:)

If there were drugs in the vehicle and possibly the vehicle was in full view of the mother while father was at his rotary function whereby drug pick-up wasn't possible, then possibly a reason to follow the Durhams home that evening. IF the father locked the vehicle and they couldn't get into it without creating a crash, possibly inside the garage, by breaking a window to get in, then it could have escalated in an attempt to get the keys. Not sure if vehicle was said to have been parked outside the home or in the garage when they arrived home. Not sure if they were able to even determine that with the blinding snowstorm, but since the son in law and Small were said to arrive there shortly after the Jimmy was seen at 10:30, I would guess their footprints could have also overlapped any others that were there.

I would guess that every employee at the dealership has been gone over many times over the years, to try to find the connecting link. Wonder how many employees there were? Likely service people, and possibly a list of employees who had been fired. I think they were in business there for 18 months, so possibly a disgruntled ex-employee.

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asheonce

It's exciting to see all of this new activity on this thread after it went really quiet for 3 to 4 months. But at the same time, it is a little bit frustrating to watch people go off on what I consider to be a errant tangent related to the Jimmy. Maybe this is a good example of how crime investigators sometimes get fixated on the wrong items, thinking they are clues, and then get way off the correct path to solving a crime.

Up front here, I will admit that this is only my opinion, but I don't think the Jimmy has any significance at all. That just happens to be what family drove home that night, nothing else to it. I think the killers were already waiting inside the house when the family came home, most likely hiding in the basement. They either walked or were driven to the Durham home, and that's why they took the Jimmy, to make it back to another car.

A couple of pages back in this thread (which was several months ago) I shared some info that I found in a news source from 1972 that sheds a lot of additional light on this case. The source info stated that something else was taken from the house that night, probably from the basement. And in another forum, a poster indicated that Bryce had a safe that was in the basement or built into the underside of a stairwell. For some reason this info fell out of stories about this case in later years. My guess would be the additional item(s) taken that night were something like legal documents, or something similar that could be used to implicate someone in some type of illegal activity. In other words, something that somebody wanted to get into their own hands very badly. This would also go a long way towards explaining the crime scene. The victims were tortured as a means of getting Bryce (who was tortured first) to reveal where the item was. Bobby may have been clueless, but was tortured as additional incentive to try to get Bryce to fess up. And so the ransacked house was not staged, they really pulled out all the drawers looking for whatever the desired item was. Maybe after several minutes of near strangling and near drowning, Bryce finally told them about the safe. And since he knew the intruders, or at least some of them, there was no way they were going to let them live. And the son-in-law probably was an accomplice in helping to plan this out.

There is another thread about this case on a site called websleuths. It's much shorter than this thread, but one person shared the most informative and thoughtful theory I have ever seen related to this case.

Here is a link to the thread, the post I'm referring to is post #9.....

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?256704-NC-Durham-family-murder-Boone-2-Feb-1972

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docyabut2

It's exciting to see all of this new activity on this thread after it went really quiet for 3 to 4 months. But at the same time, it is a little bit frustrating to watch people go off on what I consider to be a errant tangent related to the Jimmy. Maybe this is a good example of how crime investigators sometimes get fixated on the wrong items, thinking they are clues, and then get way off the correct path to solving a crime.

Up front here, I will admit that this is only my opinion, but I don't think the Jimmy has any significance at all. That just happens to be what family drove home that night, nothing else to it. I think the killers were already waiting inside the house when the family came home, most likely hiding in the basement. They either walked or were driven to the Durham home, and that's why they took the Jimmy, to make it back to another car.

A couple of pages back in this thread (which was several months ago) I shared some info that I found in a news source from 1972 that sheds a lot of additional light on this case. The source info stated that something else was taken from the house that night, probably from the basement. And in another forum, a poster indicated that Bryce had a safe that was in the basement or built into the underside of a stairwell. For some reason this info fell out of stories about this case in later years. My guess would be the additional item(s) taken that night were something like legal documents, or something similar that could be used to implicate someone in some type of illegal activity. In other words, something that somebody wanted to get into their own hands very badly. This would also go a long way towards explaining the crime scene. The victims were tortured as a means of getting Bryce (who was tortured first) to reveal where the item was. Bobby may have been clueless, but was tortured as additional incentive to try to get Bryce to fess up. And so the ransacked house was not staged, they really pulled out all the drawers looking for whatever the desired item was. Maybe after several minutes of near strangling and near drowning, Bryce finally told them about the safe. And since he knew the intruders, or at least some of them, there was no way they were going to let them live. And the son-in-law probably was an accomplice in helping to plan this out.

There is another thread about this case on a site called websleuths. It's much shorter than this thread, but one person shared the most informative and thoughtful theory I have ever seen related to this case.

Here is a link to the thread, the post I'm referring to is post #9.....

http://www.websleuth...oone-2-Feb-1972

If it was a simple planned business disagreement to murder these people ,why do it in a freaking snow storm ? It doesn't make sense.

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rashore

If it was a simple planned business disagreement to murder these people ,why do it in a freaking snow storm ? It doesn't make sense.

It might make sense if the crime was supposed to go down on the date, regardless of the weather. Or if the weather was taken into account for the crime to go down. It was midweek and during the Olympics, so either bet might be valid.

I did find a tidbit of a local auto person buying up the local "Buick, Pontiac, GMC" dealership in March of 72. It looks likely so far that it's the Durham dealership. So they passed in early Feb, the dealership was sold in March. I'm still trying to get together information that way. A name in it triggered a recall, but I don't want to post it till I find it for sure or not. Now I need to comb back though the whole thread to see if any names turn up or not.

What made me think about this part was overhearing a discussion recently about quarterly dealings. Mid March was a quarterly cut off for a lot of things. This might have absolutely nothing to do with this case, but might have a bearing too.

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docyabut2

It might make sense if the crime was supposed to go down on the date, regardless of the weather. Or if the weather was taken into account for the crime to go down. It was midweek and during the Olympics, so either bet might be valid.

I did find a tidbit of a local auto person buying up the local "Buick, Pontiac, GMC" dealership in March of 72. It looks likely so far that it's the Durham dealership. So they passed in early Feb, the dealership was sold in March. I'm still trying to get together information that way. A name in it triggered a recall, but I don't want to post it till I find it for sure or not. Now I need to comb back though the whole thread to see if any names turn up or not.

What made me think about this part was overhearing a discussion recently about quarterly dealings. Mid March was a quarterly cut off for a lot of things. This might have absolutely nothing to do with this case, but might have a bearing too.

But seriously if this was a planned to kill those poor people, they would have just went to the house and killed them, why did they take the jimmy and run with it and the jimmy was abandon far away. If their car was parked a little ways away from the house, they would have walked back to the same spot as they have come from .

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asheonce

But seriously if this was a planned to kill those poor people, they would have just went to the house and killed them, why did they take the jimmy and run with it and the jimmy was abandon far away. If their car was parked a little ways away from the house, they would have walked back to the same spot as they have come from .

Often, the description of things becomes more dramatic over time. Anyone familiar with Boone, NC knows that this type of snow event is a common occurrence in Jan-Feb. Chilly wind with 2-3 inches of snow. In other words, wintry enough so that you would choose to drive a 4 wheel drive vehicle (the Jimmy) if you have that option available, just in case it were to become a worse storm than normal. But at the same time, not wintry enough to cancel a scheduled basketball game at the local university, or close down the campus/library.

So it may not have even been snowing yet if the killers arrived there earlier. The Jimmy wasn't abandoned that far away, just a couple of miles.

I've read in other threads that the killers (and possible the son-in-law) weren't expecting the son to be there. He was planning to attend the basketball game at ASU. And if Bryce was supposed to have a Rotary meeting, they may not have been expecting anyone to come home that soon, which may be the reason why they would have already been there.

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Regi

I've read in other threads that the killers (and possible the son-in-law) weren't expecting the son to be there. He was planning to attend the basketball game at ASU. And if Bryce was supposed to have a Rotary meeting, they may not have been expecting anyone to come home that soon, which may be the reason why they would have already been there.

If the murders weren't the motive, then they had all day long...

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docyabut2

If the murders weren't the motive, then they had all day long...

I agree regi ,what ever the killers were there looking for ,it had to very desperate for them to have to find it at the moment. If it were just documents they were looking for or any other thing, they could have ransack the house at any time, while the family was gone, which makes me believe it was the keys to the jimmy and they had to kill those poor people so they couldn't identify them and tore up the house in the process. Again the only thing taken was the jimmy. I`m sure the police would have reported anything else missing in the house.

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mbrn30000

theoretically if it were a robbery, then the robbers were inept at best. When I first read about the case I first thought of the Cutter murders from the book In Cold Blood. Perhaps there was a rumor in the town or among some seedy types there was a safe in the house. Were the Durham's tortured demanding to know where the safe was? The problem was there was a deposit bag of money in the kitchen, I think, full of cash. If I were being beaten by thugs to an inch of my life I would say hey there is a few thousand dollars in that bag, take it and leave. Of course the rumor might have been there were drugs or something else of value. They took nothing but tokens and left them behind in a car dumped a mile from the scene. IF they were strangers why even continue with a rouse of a robbery? Why not just leave?

I don't think the jimmy was the target either, they left it. So I am thinking it was completely staged. If they caught mrs durham on the phone, why did they not run? They could have quickly killed her and ran out the door. How did they know her rescuers would not be coming from next door? They took the time to stack the bodies in the tub. That almost seems more signature, very strange. Of course if the heads were underwater it would ensure death, which might have been the point. So cutting their throats with a knife would have been too messy.

The evidence shows the family got home and had begun to eat dinner, even having time to change shoes, hang up coats and such. I think either someone burst in or was let in after a knock. Staging is only necessary to protect people who believe they will be implicated by their relationship to the victims. Strangers never need to stage.

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lw-intuit

I agree regi ,what ever the killers were there looking for ,it had to very desperate for them to have to find it at the moment. If it were just documents they were looking for or any other thing, they could have ransack the house at any time, while the family was gone, which makes me believe it was the keys to the jimmy and they had to kill those poor people so they couldn't identify them and tore up the house in the process. Again the only thing taken was the jimmy. I`m sure the police would have reported anything else missing in the house.

I also agree. Someone looking for something specific in the house didn't need to wait for the Durhams to arrive to do a searchwhen they had all day to do so unless what they were searching for was possibly something the Durhams had with them, ie: the keys to the Jimmy. Since it appears the family didn't walk in and find the house ransacked, with their seemingly going about evening snack, that seems to indicate there was no ransacking prior to their arrival home. I continue to think they were followed home with just enough time in the house for whomever to walk to the house. There is nothing to say there wasn't a fourth person waiting in the car who dropped the three off closer to the house and then drove on to park elsewhere and wait so their walk to the house may have been relatively short as opposed to two miles where car may have been parked.

Question is, did they come in to murder or did they come in to 'discuss' something with a family member, as in getting rough? Three men seems like quite a lot for a discussion, heated or otherwise, so if there to 'discuss', obviously threatening in nature.

Since it seems fingerprints were lifted from the crime scene, but with no match in the data base, I would guess this is someone who has never had a prior or since big problem with the law. That would eliminate the three mentioned by a poster on another board mentioned as being in and out of jail, and being 'murder for hire' stock. That would likely also eliminate the son-in-law and Small and employees as well if they were fingerprinted. That's not to say it still couldn't be employee connected if the three were after something that a service person/salesperson placed in the Jimmy. Naturally, those prints might be in the vehicle considering the vehicle was likely reconditioned and saleman was asked to gas it up so it was ready when the father arrived back at the dealership to then drive home.

Although caller ID and *69 weren't around at that time, one thing I recall about the old phone system. IF for some reason you were cut off during a conversation, all you had to do to call back the person you were talking to was to hang up the phone, get the dial tone, and then click the button on the receiver a few times, It would immediately dial up the last person you had called. I wondered if they tried reconnecting that phone to see if they could do so at the time. That could possibly prove whether the last call made from that phone had actually been to the daughter's residence or if that call never took place. If the daughter had been called earlier in the day/evening, it would show up as last call thus proving nothing. But if the last call made on that phone was to someone other than the daughter, that would prove whether the daughter was actually called or not. IF the son in law called someone else after the mother's call then it would ring back to that number which likewise could offer a clue. IF the phone was taken in as evidence, not certain that would still work with new systems. IF the phone was possibly where they lifted fingerprints, then they likely would not want to disturb that evidence. Just a thought-------------

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mbrn30000

Although caller ID and *69 weren't around at that time, one thing I recall about the old phone system. IF for some reason you were cut off during a conversation, all you had to do to call back the person you were talking to was to hang up the phone, get the dial tone, and then click the button on the receiver a few times, It would immediately dial up the last person you had called. I wondered if they tried reconnecting that phone to see if they could do so at the time. That could possibly prove whether the last call made from that phone had actually been to the daughter's residence or if that call never took place. If the daughter had been called earlier in the day/evening, it would show up as last call thus proving nothing. But if the last call made on that phone was to someone other than the daughter, that would prove whether the daughter was actually called or not. IF the son in law called someone else after the mother's call then it would ring back to that number which likewise could offer a clue. IF the phone was taken in as evidence, not certain that would still work with new systems. IF the phone was possibly where they lifted fingerprints, then they likely would not want to disturb that evidence. Just a thought-------------

I don't remember that at all about the phone system. Maybe it was true, but never tried it. I do think instead of a busy signal if the line is pulled out it would just ring. It would only give a busy if the phone was off the hook. Didn't the son in law say he got a busy when he called back? I just can't figure out why they did not call the police before trying to get there. that never made sense. back then you called the operator and summoned the police...seems so easy. that call has never added up to me. Remember son in law had just come back from the "library" so that call could have come from whomever stashed that jimmy.

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Regi

theoretically if it were a robbery, then the robbers were inept at best.

The problem was there was a deposit bag of money in the kitchen, I think, full of cash.

They took nothing but tokens and left them behind in a car dumped a mile from the scene.

Right, those are all indicators of staging. There were also other items of value left untouched, including the victim's wallets which points to staging.

Also, LE noted that the method of the burglary wasn't what's seen in an actual burglary.

Anyway, that's enough for me to conclude that burglary wasn't the actual motive.

I don't think the jimmy was the target either, they left it.

I can see the Jimmy as having served two purposes: 1) transportation from the scene and 2) lending to the burglary staging because of the abandonment of that pillowcase with the silver plate (btw, I've also read it was silverware :-* ).

Since it seems fingerprints were lifted from the crime scene, but with no match in the data base,

I'd have to know more about that print (or prints or whatever) before I could weight the evidentiary value.

Edited by regi

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mbrn30000

I can see the Jimmy as having served two purposes: 1) transportation from the scene and 2) lending to the burglary staging because of the abandonment of that pillowcase with the silver plate (btw, I've also read it was silverware :-* ).

I am thinking they either had a car parked at the site they dumped the Jimmy or someone followed the jimmy to that spot. If I remember correctly the Jimmy was left running? so when they took the Jimmy they always knew they were not going to keep it. there always could be some other glitch in their plan that made them ditch the Jimmy I guess. Perhaps fear they were spotted in it and remember a witness reported following it down their road, but it turned towards town on the main road. It was ditched at the next cross street and apparently quickly. One other thought, it could have been committed by people who lived within walking distance of both the residence and the Jimmy dumpsite. If this was a some random act by a local, or a group of locals who decided to do this, you would think the secret would have slipped somewhere in town. two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead so to speak. If it was a gang of sorts, you would think there might be similar crimes somewhere in the southeast about this time. And if they think the bathtub scene was a good idea, it would have been repeated. that was one bizarre idea by those killers. I think it is significant, but it's significance is a mystery. I do think the mother was piled on after death as part of some ritualistic afterthought by the killer, perhaps to keep the family together. Could it have been guilt? Just couldn't leave poor mom all alone in the den?

Edited by mbrn30000
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lw-intuit

Right, those are all indicators of staging. There were also other items of value left untouched, including the victim's wallets which points to staging.

Also, LE noted that the method of the burglary wasn't what's seen in an actual burglary.

Anyway, that's enough for me to conclude that burglary wasn't the actual motive.

I can see the Jimmy as having served two purposes: 1) transportation from the scene and 2) lending to the burglary staging because of the abandonment of that pillowcase with the silver plate (btw, I've also read it was silverware :-* ).

I'd have to know more about that print (or prints or whatever) before I could weight the evidentiary value.

I would be interested in how much silverware was in what was said in some news articles as being in a bag and some state, pillowcase. I would guess amount, large number or small, could determine whether they were something the mother took to work or something 'stolen'/staged.

Re: the fingerprints--------

“We discussed with the SBI lab the potential of DNA with a specific piece of physical evidence,” Hagaman said. “It was determined that the piece of evidence had been exposed to elements that made DNA analysis very difficult. It should be noted that every year since the homicide that all fingerprints have been resubmitted for comparison. To date, there are latent prints that have yet to be identified.”

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lw-intuit

According to this site, it appears military prints from back in 1972 would be hard to track down. I wonder if they ever reviewed the county, near Mt. Airy and/or Boone, for Viet Nam Vets whose name might have shown up as having dealt with Mt. Airy auto loans in the two years when the father managed it.

http://onin.com/fp/wwwbd/messages/14/1707.html?1396626459

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mbrn30000

According to this site, it appears military prints from back in 1972 would be hard to track down. I wonder if they ever reviewed the county, near Mt. Airy and/or Boone, for Viet Nam Vets whose name might have shown up as having dealt with Mt. Airy auto loans in the two years when the father managed it.

http://onin.com/fp/w...html?1396626459

Never been a fan of the military connection. I think that is a product of news stories if not urban legends of those times, and the false story they were hog tied. If they were hog tied then the photos of the victims leaned over the bathtub show the bodies were tampered with before the photos. Nobody in that picture even loosely fits the description hog tied. I am sure some people thought it was a band of hippies on LSD...and well it could have been I guess.

If you believe the story there was a phone call and it was relayed accurately then the police should be looking for 3 black men, not sure if mrs durham said how many but I think 3. Her complete quote according to son in law included the racist term for black. I think if you do not believe the phone call was real, like me, the use of that term by son in law fits the prejudice of the day, and would have fit nicely into preconceived ideas of the southern cops at the time. The fact they eventually arrested 4 white men, means they downplayed the race mentioned in the call or dismissed the call altogether. So if you dismiss the call, how can you trust the son in law? You can't have both. So did they think the four men would eventually lead back to the son in law? I guess one other possibility, totally farfetched, was that mrs durham was at gunpoint and told to say those things..but as I said, I don't believe the call happened.

Edited by mbrn30000
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Regi

I am thinking they either had a car parked at the site they dumped the Jimmy or someone followed the jimmy to that spot.

It's always been my impression that it was something along those lines.

One other thing, I guess it appeared it was abandoned because it was in a ditch, but was it actually stuck?

I'd like to know more about that.

I do think the mother was piled on after death as part of some ritualistic afterthought by the killer, perhaps to keep the family together. Could it have been guilt? Just couldn't leave poor mom all alone in the den?

I don't think so. I think it was feared that they might regain consciousness.

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