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Regi

Unsolved Triple Murder, North Carolina, 1972

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rashore

I don't think any of the green berets were actual suspects, more like general people of interest or part of the notion of the military angle for the murders. Or at least that's what I've gotten reading so far. I haven't found an official suspect list though, haven't dug for actual records.

And just my opinion, but I can indeed see someone walking around in a rural snowstorm, because I have seen it personally. Not a lot, but when I do I always think the person/s need to get inside where it's warm. The murders might have been planned in part around the weather so the weather could cover their coming and going better- but that's pure speculation.

Edit to add: I speculate it's possible the murders might have been planned in part around the Olympics too, figuring everyone would be glued to their TV's.

Edited by rashore
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Regi

Not to disparage the Armed Forces, but were any of the Green Beret's training in the area ever considered as suspects?

Not that I'm aware of.

I've read there were a few black men considered suspects. Now, I don't know why those particular men were singled out, but police would have been looking for black men because the son-in-law said the mother-in-law said that the men in the house were black men, although per the son-in-law, she used the n-word.

(That info is from an excerpt from the book, Haunted Watauga County, South Carolina.)

Regi I don't see anyone just walking around in a rural snowstorm,someone would have spotted them, the family must have brought them to their home

Personally, I think they could have been dropped off, possibly at the bottom of that hill or anywhere they could have had accessed the home on foot.

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Regi

The murders might have been planned in part around the weather so the weather could cover their coming and going better- but that's pure speculation.

I think if anything, the weather was definitely to their advantage.

To me, the rope shows planning of something. (They came with at least 6' of rope!)

I think that since there weren't defensive injuries, they might have had another weapon. The father had a skull fracture and I don't know if it was determined if anything in the home could have caused that but there still could have been another weapon besides what caused that injury.

Edited by regi
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Leonardo

Not that I'm aware of.

I've read there were a few black men considered suspects. Now, I don't know why those particular men were singled out, but police would have been looking for black men because the son-in-law said the mother-in-law said that the men in the house were black men, although per the son-in-law, she used the n-word.

(That info is from an excerpt from the book, Haunted Watauga County, South Carolina.)

I think if anything, the weather was definitely to their advantage.

To me, the rope shows planning of something. (They came with at least 6' of rope!)

I think that since there weren't defensive injuries, they might have had another weapon. The father had a skull fracture and I don't know if it was determined if anything in the home could have caused that but there still could have been another weapon besides what caused that injury.

That is what got me thinking about the soldiers. No defensive injuries makes me suspect firearms were used to subdue the family, but obviously not used to commit the murders because the bullets would be traceable via ballistics.

Opportunist criminals aren't usually concerned with this, but someone using a govt-issued firearm might be.

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docyabut2

Not that I'm aware of.

I've read there were a few black men considered suspects. Now, I don't know why those particular men were singled out, but police would have been looking for black men because the son-in-law said the mother-in-law said that the men in the house were black men, although per the son-in-law, she used the n-word.

(That info is from an excerpt from the book, Haunted Watauga County, South Carolina.)

Personally, I think they could have been dropped off, possibly at the bottom of that hill or anywhere they could have had accessed the home on foot.

Did they ever checked of any footprints in the snow besides the Durham`s going to or into their house ?

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Regi

That is what got me thinking about the soldiers. No defensive injuries makes me suspect firearms were used to subdue the family, but obviously not used to commit the murders because the bullets would be traceable via ballistics.

Opportunist criminals aren't usually concerned with this, but someone using a govt-issued firearm might be.

I agree.

I'm glad you explained why you asked because I was wondering what triggered your question.

There was mention that "that was the way the Green Berets killed people in Vietnam" and apparently, that's why there was speculation that there could have been a military connection.

Now, I don't know what that means, that is, the way people were killed in Vietnam, but I know that homicidal drowning is rare, so that aspect of the murders is unusual for that reason alone.

I guess it could have been the way the rope was used on the bodies, or how the rope was tied. One article reported hog-tying, but that's certainly not how the victims were found. I haven't read that there were marks on the wrists/ankles/neck to indicate hog-tying so I don't know where that comes from.

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Regi

Did they ever checked of any footprints in the snow besides the Durham`s going to or into their house ?

The weather was increasingly severe from that afternoon onward with snow falling and winds blowing and howling. You know, coincidentally, on the news yesterday, I think the headline was "North Carolina Paralyzed by Snowstorm"- of course, it's the same time of year- even the Olympics are taking place...anyway...there was the comment that any tracks would have been covered.

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docyabut2

The weather was increasingly severe from that afternoon onward with snow falling and winds blowing and howling. You know, coincidentally, on the news yesterday, I think the headline was "North Carolina Paralyzed by Snowstorm"- of course, it's the same time of year- even the Olympics are taking place...anyway...there was the comment that any tracks would have been covered.

The Jimmy stands out at me, since it was not the Durham`s usual car to drive home. Perhaps it was previous drug running car, that was sold at the dealership drug hoodlums were looking for, them hijacking the car, thinking the Durhams inside were drug traders.I can`nt see a reason that three men just walking in a rural snow storm would go in ransack a house and kill those poor people taking nothing, unless they were looking for a storage of drugs, or they were just plain crazed thrill killers.

Edited by docyabut2
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Regi

The Jimmy stands out at me, since it was not the Durham`s usual car to drive home. Perhaps it was previous drug running car, that was sold at the dealership drug hoodlums were looking for, them hijacking the car, thinking the Durhams inside were drug traders.I can`nt see a reason that three men just walking in a rural snow storm would go in ransack a house and kill those poor people taking nothing, unless they were looking for a storage of drugs, or they were just plain crazed thrill killers.

Well, first, I wouldn't assume that there were three men...

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docyabut2

Well, first, I wouldn't assume that there were three men...

Regi going by your article.

The son-in-law told authorities that his wife's mother had called from the house and said three black men were beating Bryce and Bobby Joe Durham. Then the phone went dead.

http://www.journalno...118871ac34.html

Maybe the men were drowning them in the tub, trying to make them confess to where the drugs were.

oh well regi you ought to know me by now and my way out theories :):):)

Edited by docyabut2

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Regi

Regi going by your article.

The son-in-law told authorities that his wife's mother had called from the house and said three black men were beating Bryce and Bobby Joe Durham. Then the phone went dead.

http://www.journalno...118871ac34.html

Yes, Dear, I'm aware of what the son-in-law said, but I don't necessarily believe it. :no:

oh well regi you ought to know me by now and my way out theories :) :) :)

:lol:

Well, I know you exceptionally well by now.... and I will tell you this; when it comes to you, I always expect a challenge. ;)

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Regi

I've been thinking about the speculation of a military connection and I came across a documentary* which shows brief footage of men who are captured and appear to be tied together by the same length of 'something used like as rope' and I wonder if that could have been where that speculation came from.

*Warning: The video has graphic images and brutality. The footage of the tied men is @ 0.57- 0.58 seconds.

http://www.carlcolbyfilms.com/

Edited by regi

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rashore

Yes, Troy said that was what his mother in law said, three men. He could very well have lied about that though. Or if the call was real and by what Troy indicates about the quality of the call, she might have said something else and he just mistook what she said. Or if he was in on it, maybe the phone call was from the killer/s calling to confirm, and let Troy know it's time for his part of getting over to the house, ect. We don't know for sure in a court-proof sort of sense.

I do think it's pretty darn likely that there was more than one person involved in the killings- pretty big job for one person. But just how many people I haven't seen proof enough of yet to make a guess.

It would be interesting to see the interview of the driver that saw the Jimmy after it left the house and almost smacked them on the main road- that might or might not have reference to how many people were in the vehicle. The account of this part of the case is noted in the media accounts, but the detail of how many folks in the Jimmy isn't noted.

The notion of the Jimmy being a drug runner car, don't ring true to me. The first real release year was 70, and the crime happened in early 72. They didn't have leasing back then like they do now, you bought to own. And it was a brand new line being rolled out, so turn ins of such new models likely would have been noted. The Jimmy for sure was not traded in directly to the dealership, it was one of 4 that had come to the dealership that afternoon or the day before in a regular delivery, which implies new rather than used to me. It's rather likely the Jimmy the Durhams took home was brand new, and only needed gassing up to take it home.

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docyabut2

Yes, Troy said that was what his mother in law said, three men. He could very well have lied about that though. Or if the call was real and by what Troy indicates about the quality of the call, she might have said something else and he just mistook what she said. Or if he was in on it, maybe the phone call was from the killer/s calling to confirm, and let Troy know it's time for his part of getting over to the house, ect. We don't know for sure in a court-proof sort of sense.

I do think it's pretty darn likely that there was more than one person involved in the killings- pretty big job for one person. But just how many people I haven't seen proof enough of yet to make a guess.

It would be interesting to see the interview of the driver that saw the Jimmy after it left the house and almost smacked them on the main road- that might or might not have reference to how many people were in the vehicle. The account of this part of the case is noted in the media accounts, but the detail of how many folks in the Jimmy isn't noted.

The notion of the Jimmy being a drug runner car, don't ring true to me. The first real release year was 70, and the crime happened in early 72. They didn't have leasing back then like they do now, you bought to own. And it was a brand new line being rolled out, so turn ins of such new models likely would have been noted. The Jimmy for sure was not traded in directly to the dealership, it was one of 4 that had come to the dealership that afternoon or the day before in a regular delivery, which implies new rather than used to me. It's rather likely the Jimmy the Durhams took home was brand new, and only needed gassing up to take it home.

That afternoon because of the snow he asked one of his salesmen to gas up a Jimmy, a four-wheel drive. It was one of four that just came in that afternoon or the day before

Could have been a trade in, a lot of people drive them for a year and trade them in for a new one.

Edited by docyabut2

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docyabut2

durhamransacked1.jpg?w=614

in this picture it sure looks like killers were looking for something.

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docyabut2

According to the causes of death in the articles, the killers may have trying to make them confess to something, since the father and son were drowned. The mother might have also had time to make that call since her nose was bloodied, her blood was found in the den and she was the only strangled and the last one to be put in the tub.

Like the man said "Why was it necessary to go to all this trouble of ransacking the house if it was going to be a contract killing, it would seem that you would go in and bang bang and strangle. You go in and do the job and then you leave,"

Edited by docyabut2
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docyabut2

It would be interesting to see the interview of the driver that saw the Jimmy after it left the house and almost smacked them on the main road- that might or might not have reference to how many people were in the vehicle. The account of this part of the case is noted in the media accounts, but the detail of how many folks in the Jimmy isn't noted.

"The Jimmy was seen coming off of a residential area at ten-thirty," Whitman said. "They almost ran the driver off the road. This guy, he followed them on out to the main 105 where you would turn right, which he did, to Linville. He said the car turned left going back toward Boone, the Jimmy. It turned left like coming back toward Boone.

"He got home at 10:30, the guy who turned right. About the first road you could turn left on, the Jimmy was found abandoned, but it was in a ditch. This is a four-wheel drive. There was no indication that it slid into the ditch. It was just there with the lights on and the motor running."

This was about two miles from the scene of the crime.

http://www.yesweekly.com/triad/article-4121-cold-case.html

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docyabut2

Another interesting thing it was said the victims took of their shoes at the door, and there was not one dropped of water by the bath tub. The murders have had to come in with their snowy shoes on leavening watery foot prints, and watery prints by the tub to drown someone, so the murders must have clean up all the water and their prints.

I do go on:) :)

Edited by docyabut2
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Leonardo

Another interesting thing it was said the victims took of their shoes at the door, and there was not one dropped of water by the bath tub. The murders have had to come in with their snowy shoes on leavening watery foot prints, and watery prints by the tub to drown someone, so the murders must have clean up all the water and their prints.

I do go on:) :)

Army-issue boots would leave very recognisable prints.

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rashore

"The Jimmy was seen coming off of a residential area at ten-thirty," Whitman said. "They almost ran the driver off the road. This guy, he followed them on out to the main 105 where you would turn right, which he did, to Linville. He said the car turned left going back toward Boone, the Jimmy. It turned left like coming back toward Boone.

"He got home at 10:30, the guy who turned right. About the first road you could turn left on, the Jimmy was found abandoned, but it was in a ditch. This is a four-wheel drive. There was no indication that it slid into the ditch. It was just there with the lights on and the motor running."

This was about two miles from the scene of the crime.

http://www.yesweekly...-cold-case.html

Well yes, I did read the article I originally posted, but thanks for posting the article again. And the media account does not make note of if the person interviewed said or not how many people were in the Jimmy. That's why I said it would be interesting to see the interview of that driver. As in the actual police interview.

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docyabut2

Army-issue boots would leave very recognisable prints.

I guess the same thing can be said of the army guys.Why was it necessary to go to all this trouble of ransacking the house, if they were just there to torture and kill those poor people.Make it looked like a burglary and take no money ? It was said their night deposit of money was still on the table.

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rashore

That afternoon because of the snow he asked one of his salesmen to gas up a Jimmy, a four-wheel drive. It was one of four that just came in that afternoon or the day before

Could have been a trade in, a lot of people drive them for a year and trade them in for a new one.

Not in 72. If this crime had been 02 I might agree it might be a trade in. But back in 72 they didn't do leasing like they do now. Leasing didn't start becoming common till around 2000 or so. People bought to own, not buy to drive for a year. And again because it was one of four- four trade ins that were reconditioned by the MFG and then sent on to one dealership that is also selling the newest model? And of a product line that at best is only in it's third production year? It don't make car sense to try doing that when the product line was just starting. Even today it's not common for a dealership selling 2014 cars to take a shipment of 2012/2013 models of the same thing to try to sell.

Edited by rashore

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Regi

Like the man said "Why was it necessary to go to all this trouble of ransacking the house if it was going to be a contract killing, it would seem that you would go in and bang bang and strangle. You go in and do the job and then you leave,"

Well, the man seemed to not recognize, or embrace the first thing about the crime and that's the staged burglary. A staged scene is easily recognized by those who know what actual burglaries look like and once that determination is made, one goes from there.

This scene tells us that the killer(s) weren't real burglars because they didn't know what a real burglary looked like, but it also tells us that the motive was the murders.

Edited by regi
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CuriousLittleOne

Staging is a conscious criminal action on the part of an offender to thwart an investigation. The term "staging" should not be used to describe the actions of surviving family members who cover or redress a loved one, who is found nude or has died in an embarrassing situation. These activities are certainly understandable considering the shock experienced by a relative who encounters the sudden and violent death of a loved one. In my experience investigating suspicious deaths I have often times had a "gut" feeling that something was amiss. (Actually, that "gut" feeling is your subconscious reaction to the presentation, which should alert you to the possibility that, things are not always what they appear to be, consistent with equivocal death investigations).

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Regi

Staging is a conscious criminal action on the part of an offender to thwart an investigation.

Exactly, and so it doesn't matter if it was a "contract killing", as that man suggested because that's beside the point. If there's staging, then the actual motive is clear and the question is who stood to benefit in any way from the murders.

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