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Regi

Unsolved Triple Murder, North Carolina, 1972

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Regi

Sorry Regi,again I thought I did answer you question as to why ,by saying perhaps they strangled the mother in the bath room and then just placed her next to the son and father.

Docy, I commented that you still hadn't explained 'why' and you went on to something else, so it looks to me like you chose to avoid my question.

If you didn't understand my comment, then I hope you let me know.

Edited by regi

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rashore

regi, you put a flea in my ear with this case. The whole thing is just.. weird. Staged, almost overly so. Time tight, almost overly so. Under-discussed too by lack of finding much about it on other forums, but so are a lot of other cases.

A probably stupid research thing on my part. But I'm not sure who would have the file in their hands now? Best I came up with was a non-UM forum thread from 2010 referencing Boone to report to for tips.

And ugh, I'm hitting an utter wall with the at the time newspaper articles. Seems like every paper and their mother makes you subscribe for anything now.

I looked up Historical Society, dead end. The local library seems to only carry the book and copy that is already available online, nothing else really.

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docyabut2

Docy, I commented that you still hadn't explained 'why' and you went on to something else, so it looks to me like you chose to avoid my question.

If you didn't understand my comment, then I hope you let me know.

Sorry Regi maybe a misunderstanding:(

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docyabut2

regi, you put a flea in my ear with this case. The whole thing is just.. weird. Staged, almost overly so. Time tight, almost overly so. Under-discussed too by lack of finding much about it on other forums, but so are a lot of other cases.

A probably stupid research thing on my part. But I'm not sure who would have the file in their hands now? Best I came up with was a non-UM forum thread from 2010 referencing Boone to report to for tips.

And ugh, I'm hitting an utter wall with the at the time newspaper articles. Seems like every paper and their mother makes you subscribe for anything now.

I looked up Historical Society, dead end. The local library seems to only carry the book and copy that is already available online, nothing else really.

John Butts, head of the NC Chief Medical Examiner's Office, said all records on crimes before 1976 have been destroyed.

Perhaps why there is only the articles to go by.

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CuriousLittleOne

why just destroy everything prior,

i just have visions of loads of cardboard boxes being chucked into a bonfire

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Regi

regi, you put a flea in my ear with this case. The whole thing is just.. weird. Staged, almost overly so. Time tight, almost overly so. Under-discussed too by lack of finding much about it on other forums, but so are a lot of other cases.

A flea in the ear! Now, that almost gives me chills just thinking about it!

You are absolutely right about the whole thing being weird. It's truly an intriguing case. Just the method of the deaths...the strangling and then the drowning (one case, attempted drowning) has to be very unusual!

You're right on with the staging. That it was overdone is very likely part of what gave it away. The drawers pulled out as they were in that photo, overdone. Sometimes it's the other way around and drawers are pulled out, but it's neatly done or they're stacked neatly.

I think the main indicator was that despite the ransacking, the only thing of value that was taken was left behind in the ditched Jimmy. (The perp(s) weren't car thieves, either...)

Yes, I think there's something very wrong with that timeline.

Re: no case discussions on forums, I'm really surprised by that because I think there's at least as much info. with this case as there is with many other cases I've seen presented- more in some instances, and I think its truly a fascinating case and... solvable!

But I'm not sure who would have the file in their hands now? Best I came up with was a non-UM forum thread from 2010 referencing Boone to report to for tips.

And ugh, I'm hitting an utter wall with the at the time newspaper articles. Seems like every paper and their mother makes you subscribe for anything now.

I looked up Historical Society, dead end. The local library seems to only carry the book and copy that is already available online, nothing else really.

I'm very impressed with your research. :tsu: You've obviously taken a serious, in-depth look at this case and I admire that and I'm grateful. :nw:

"Every paper and their mother"...too funny! Funny, but true, right?! :td:

It's too bad we don't have access to the library's newspaper archives... :hmm:

Re: the case file, I would think it would be with the department that handled the investigation.

That investigator person said that when the case was reviewed by some other investigative body, the comment was that the file was impressive. (Which is great to hear! :tu: )

Edited by regi
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Regi

John Butts, head of the NC Chief Medical Examiner's Office, said all records on crimes before 1976 have been destroyed.

Perhaps why there is only the articles to go by.

Surely, the ME was only referring to his records because the ME's office would house their autopsy records and the police department would house their case file.

Now, at least some the ME's records should also be contained in the police file because the investigators would have needed copies of the ME's reports.

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Regi

John Butts, head of the NC Chief Medical Examiner's Office, said all records on crimes before 1976 have been destroyed.

It's occurred to me that the "records on crimes" the ME may have been referring to is info. provided to him by the police...such as investigative notes and reports and witness statements and so on...

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Small Town History

Send me your newspaper requests!

I'm a subscriber to newspaper.com :)

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Regi

Send me your newspaper requests!

I'm a subscriber to newspaper.com :)

I wonder if you could locate an AP article which was picked up by The Dallas Morning News 2/6/72 titled 'Good Clues' May Nail Slayers of N.C. Family.

Edited by regi

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Small Town History

looking. what are the murders about

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Small Town History

I wonder if you could locate an AP article which was picked up by The Dallas Morning News 2/6/72 titled 'Good Clues' May Nail Slayers of N.C. Family.

forget that last post.

found a lot of newspaper articles on the triple slayings.

nothing in the dallas papers.

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Regi

The good news is I found out I have free access to The Dallas Morning News archives using my library card and that I can access those archives from home. :tsu:

The bad news is that this particular article- which I was especially excited to read- turned out to be nothing to be excited about.

http://phw01.newsbank.com/cache/ean/fullsize/pl_002222014_1928_08075_798.pdf

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Small Town History

The good news is I found out I have free access to The Dallas Morning News archives using my library card and that I can access those archives from home. :tsu:

The bad news is that this particular article- which I was especially excited to read- turned out to be nothing to be excited about.

http://phw01.newsban...8_08075_798.pdf

Not found.

Did you actually read the article?

It wasn't in newspaper.com

This news ban thread hers said, 'not found'

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Small Town History

Wouldn't the local paper have a better cover story, and a better account of events than the DMN's?

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Regi

Not found.

Did you actually read the article?

It wasn't in newspaper.com

This news ban thread hers said, 'not found'

I don't understand what went wrong because I checked it after I posted it and it was okay. :unsure2:

Wouldn't the local paper have a better cover story, and a better account of events than the DMN's?

Of course!

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rashore

I'm poking around on this one again... Tinkering with some mapping, timeline, that sort of stuff... I skimmed back through the information posted in the thread, and it's been helpful. But I'm on a couple sticking points that perhaps I missed..

Anyone see where the area was that Troy and Ginny Hall, and Cecil Small lived? I've seen 2-4 miles away, but no roads mentioned? And near the A&P- but I don't know what an A&P was in 1972 NC. I'm trying to pinpoint where they lived at the time.

Also, the apartment building? That the 911/police call was finally made from at 10:50. The one Troy and Cecil went to.

Pure Oil gas stations from that time period. There was a tip called in years later when they did a anniversary media piece that reported someone in the phone booth of the Pure Oil station in the right time frame that night.

As a completely random point... Bryce and Virgina had chicken, corn, and squash in their stomachs. Virgina's was partially digested, Bryce's was well digested to the point where some was in the small intestine. They had the same lunch, but at different times earlier in the day. Bobby had very little white food in his stomach, specific type not stated.

When I looked at the pics of the house, I noted that there is a plate of what looks like it might be fried chicken and an upright glass on the ottoman. But no fresh food was noted in any of their stomachs. It can take 6-8 hours for food to digest to the point where it's passing into the small intestine, and if Bobby had freshly eaten chicken in his stomach.... Wouldn't they have identified it instead of the statement of white food?

Found a tidbit that stated the rope used for the strangulation was a sash cord type.

Also picking through what details I could gather online... Some autopsy details... The autopsy was authorized by Dr. CC Dean of Chapel Hill. It was performed by Dr's Harry Taylor, Abdullah Fatteh, and Page Hudson. I've picked out a list of details if folks would like me to list them.

And getting back to some earlier research walls... There has to be good records out there. Multiple Doctors on it, multiple police departments. There is an account that the case was shown to the FBI in 82-83? and the profiler said it was a rather well documented case. It's been fairly under-reported by the media.

Edited by rashore
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Regi

Rashore, re: where the daughter lived, I read in one of those articles that it was about where the Wal-Mart is now, so if that's accurate, then it's 4.6 miles, S/SE of the Durham's home.

That sounds accurate because it looks like the vehicle was abandoned on Popular Grove Road, which is 2.8 miles S/SE of the Durham's.

About the sash cord, I don't even know what that is... and I wonder where it came from. I would think the perp(s) brought it with them, but regardless, it seems to me there's a clue there somewhere re: that cord!

Yes, please share the details of what you've learned about the autopsy reports!

Oh, indeed, this case has been under-reported by the media.

I wonder what that profiler meant by "well documented". I don't know if he meant that in his opinion, it was a thorough investigation, or if he was impressed that the case file was complete/intact.

Edit: The address for the Wal-Mart is 1855 Blowing Rock Road.

Edited by regi
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rashore

Thanks regi, I figured I missed the Halls house somewhere, heh. By the Walmart is better than nothing :tu: I had read some accounts that said 2 miles, others 4 miles.

A sash cord is the cord found in the side frame of your windows that helps them open and close easier. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have removed it from a window in the house because you need to remove the molding to get at it. It could be the cord was already in the house because they were planning on repairing a sash... but.... I'm with you, I think the perps brought the cord with them.

What I gleaned about the autopsy report comes from that Haunted Watauga book that is mentioned in the post you mentioned regi, waaaaay back at the beginning, and not the actual reports. So....

Bryce:

Time of death determined to be 10:00

asphyxia due to rope strangulation and drowning

blood in nose and mouth

three parallel depressions on the back of the right wrist, a matching mark on his anterior chest

rope burn on anterior and left neck 6 inches long

1 inch superficial cut on right forehead

right shoe untied, left still tied

clean fingernails, fingerprint ink on fingers

subconjunctival petechiae and middle ear hemmorage

noose around neck

aspiration of water, pooling of red blood cells in lungs

Virginia:

Ligature strangulation

evidence of being struck in the nose

abrasion on chin, small bruises on knees

purple lividity on face

Bobby

asphyxiation due to strangulation and possible drowning

rope burns on face and neck, anterior front lower gum lacerated

gag marks over mouth

froth in air passages

hemorrhages in middle ears

The profiler from the FBI meant well put together as in documentation. I guess that would mean that they did all the paperwork that they could on the case and it was all there for the FBI agent?

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Regi

The profiler from the FBI meant well put together as in documentation. I guess that would mean that they did all the paperwork that they could on the case and it was all there for the FBI agent?

Well, I really don't know what he meant by that! That's definitely good to hear, but the fact still remains, it's an unsolved case. :unsure2:

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Regi

(I had to tend to other business, so I've been back and forth and I managed to lose most of what I'd wanted to post above. <_< )

Thanks regi, I figured I missed the Halls house somewhere, heh. By the Walmart is better than nothing :tu: I had read some accounts that said 2 miles, others 4 miles.

You're welcome. :tu:

Yes, those discrepancies re: the distances and that there's no mention of street names has had me up and down the streets of Boone trying to make sense of the info.!

You know, geography is always a huge obstacle we encounter with these old cases, right?!

It'd be very helpful to have access to a city directory, which is similar to a phone book. Their local library should have a collection of those.

A sash cord is the cord found in the side frame of your windows that helps them open and close easier. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have removed it from a window in the house because you need to remove the molding to get at it. It could be the cord was already in the house because they were planning on repairing a sash... but.... I'm with you, I think the perps brought the cord with them.

Okay, I know what that is (thank you, Dear! :tu: ) and that's very interesting because I find it odd how or where anyone would obtain such a thing.

If it actually came from the Durham's garage (or from anywhere in or around their home), well surely, that could have been easily determined/ruled out at the time...

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Regi

The address for the Wal-Mart is 1855 Blowing Rock Road.

I was gonna let this go, but such things bug me too much. The actual add. is 200 Watauga Drive. (I got that other add. from street view and on google maps, I see that it pulls up Lowe's. :td: )

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docyabut2

I'm poking around on this one again... Tinkering with some mapping, timeline, that sort of stuff... I skimmed back through the information posted in the thread, and it's been helpful. But I'm on a couple sticking points that perhaps I missed..

Anyone see where the area was that Troy and Ginny Hall, and Cecil Small lived? I've seen 2-4 miles away, but no roads mentioned? And near the A&P- but I don't know what an A&P was in 1972 NC. I'm trying to pinpoint where they lived at the time.

Also, the apartment building? That the 911/police call was finally made from at 10:50. The one Troy and Cecil went to.

Pure Oil gas stations from that time period. There was a tip called in years later when they did a anniversary media piece that reported someone in the phone booth of the Pure Oil station in the right time frame that night.

As a completely random point... Bryce and Virgina had chicken, corn, and squash in their stomachs. Virgina's was partially digested, Bryce's was well digested to the point where some was in the small intestine. They had the same lunch, but at different times earlier in the day. Bobby had very little white food in his stomach, specific type not stated.

When I looked at the pics of the house, I noted that there is a plate of what looks like it might be fried chicken and an upright glass on the ottoman. But no fresh food was noted in any of their stomachs. It can take 6-8 hours for food to digest to the point where it's passing into the small intestine, and if Bobby had freshly eaten chicken in his stomach.... Wouldn't they have identified it instead of the statement of white food?

Found a tidbit that stated the rope used for the strangulation was a sash cord type.

Also picking through what details I could gather online... Some autopsy details... The autopsy was authorized by Dr. CC Dean of Chapel Hill. It was performed by Dr's Harry Taylor, Abdullah Fatteh, and Page Hudson. I've picked out a list of details if folks would like me to list them.

And getting back to some earlier research walls... There has to be good records out there. Multiple Doctors on it, multiple police departments. There is an account that the case was shown to the FBI in 82-83? and the profiler said it was a rather well documented case. It's been fairly under-reported by the media.

that was my thought that the food found on the plate was digested earlier in the day and still hold to the idea that that the killers were picked up and brought home by the victims.

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Regi

When I looked at the pics of the house, I noted that there is a plate of what looks like it might be fried chicken and an upright glass on the ottoman. But no fresh food was noted in any of their stomachs. It can take 6-8 hours for food to digest to the point where it's passing into the small intestine, and if Bobby had freshly eaten chicken in his stomach.... Wouldn't they have identified it instead of the statement of white food?

(I missed this question yesterday...)

I think the reason it wasn't is because regardless of the circumstance of the food at the scene, the material simply couldn't be positively identified.

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Regi

Have the circumstances immediately following the discovery of the bodies struck anyone as strange? The way I've understood it, the bodies were left in the same positions as they were when discovered and that strikes me as against anything instinctual.

I mean, it seems to me that the instinct would be to pull them out!

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